- tz - lists.iana.org

Sakhalin bug - seven months past - still not fixed
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

reported 2011-09-16 by Alexander Krivenyshev http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008798.html 2012-09-22 Tobias Conradi proposes new zone Asia/Yuzhno-Kurilsk http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008845.html 2012-10-02 Arthur David Olson starts the last thread in 2012 covering this Sakhalin bug http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008933.html ----- This may need a zone creation similar to the ones in the Sakha Republic. The Sakha summary may contain all needed laws: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017688.html If I have time, the bug is open and I am still allowed to post to the tz mailing list I may mail a deeper analyze of the needed fix, similar to the one I did create for the Sakha Republic. If not, this posting here may serve simply as a reminder. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Catfighting (was: Re: Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world)
by Doug Ewell May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

>>>> in a manner that often comes across as rude and offensive. >>> That is your interpretation. >> >> That is not his interpretation, that is very likely >> the interpretation by the vast majority of people on this list. > An interpretation can be shared by different people. I didn't wrote > that it would be exclusively his interpretation. > >> Stop being aggressive. Stop being abrasive. >> Stop being condescending. > Again, lack of any evidence for that to have been happened. > >> Start saying "please", > You mean like in my first posting this year Wow, this sure isn't what I signed up for on this list. I guess I'll unsubscribe and just poll the IANA page to find out about updates to the tz database. Sorry for sticking my nose into the boudoir. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA http://www.ewellic.org | @DougEwell

2 1

Notification of new releases only
by James Diebel May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Hello, I'm a user of the tz database, but not a contributor. I would like to receive notification of when a new release has been issued, but without receiving the messages between contributors debating the merits of various proposed changes. Is there a way to configure my mailing list subscription to only receive release notifications? Or is there some other method by which I can receive release notifications without checking the web site every day? If this is not possible, perhaps the subject line of a message announcing a new release could always contain some keywords so that I could write a mail filter to archive non-release-announcement messages? And do such new release announcements always come from the same person? That would also help. Thanks! Cheers, James

6 5

So who is this KRE person, anyway?
by David Braverman May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

A number of posts to the list recently have concerned me greatly. It appears that people new to this list may not know of Robert Elz's contributions, or why we* other contributors generally accord him the deference we do. What follows is my own opinion, though I hope it reflects the consensus view. Back in September, when Astrolabe sued list coordinators Arthur Olson and Paul Eggert over the time zone database, KRE immediately stepped up to keep the database available. He provided server space and technical support following the database's removal from the National Institutes of Health (where it had lived from its inception); he insulated the list from the U.S. courts; he made sure that the subsequent database updates got published when necessary; and he did myriad other things that showed his commitment to the database and its users. Now that the lawsuit is gone, and Paul Eggert has officially taken over as coordinator, KRE has less of a formal role than he did as the de facto coordinator during the crisis. But even a casual scan through the list's archives will show he's long been one of the most conscientious and helpful contributors for years. He has earned my respect since I've been contributing to the list; I suspect I'm not alone. Of course, all of this is evident from the list's archives. I would suggest to anyone new to a mailing list or online community-as people have suggested, no doubt with similar effect, since the ancient days of the WELL, CompuServe, and dial-up BBSs-that reading a list's archives can answer a lot of questions, including about the community's structures and relationships, and can prevent unfortunate misunderstandings from taking over the conversation. I hope this clarifies why recent posts have generated some, shall I say, strongly-worded responses. I also hope we can now return to our regular discussion of what times the world's clocks are showing. David Braverman Inner Drive Technology https://www.inner-drive.com/Demo/Timezones.aspx * We, in this context, means those of us expressing these opinions. I think I speak for everyone here when I say no one speaks for everyone here.

1 0

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:43 PM, Bennett Todd <bet(a)rahul.net> wrote: > Please stop unproductive provocation on this list. Any quote for an "unproductive provocation on this list"? >It doesn't advance the > maintenance of the zoneinfo database, Can be tested after you give a quote. >and it doesn't make you look good. I don't care about how I look, when mailing to the tz mailing list. When I email to the tz mailing list, I care about the correctness of the tzdb and statements made in other mailings related to that. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Re: [tz] Theory - typo - simplifes -> simplyfies
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Even bug reports can contain bugs. T On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 8:03 PM, David Zülke <david.zuelke(a)bitextender.com> wrote: > On 08.05.2012, at 19:29, Tobias Conradi wrote: > >> tzcode2012b/Theory >> >> Indicate to humans as to where that region is. This simplifes use. >> >> simplifes -> simplyfies > > It's "simplifies". Get your own facts straight before you waste everyone's time with nonsensical "input" like this. I bet you'll follow up with another message in two months, subject "Two month past [sic] - still not fixed". > > David > > -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

As long as we're looking at the Theory file...
by Guy Harris May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

It says * This package is already part of many POSIX-compliant hosts, including BSD, HP, Linux, Network Appliance, SCO, SGI, and Sun. On such hosts, the primary use of this package is to update obsolete time zone rule tables. To do this, you may need to compile the time zone compiler `zic' supplied with this package instead of using the system `zic', since the format of zic's input changed slightly in late 1994, and many vendors still do not support the new input format. NetApp's machines aren't POSIX-compliant - the original Data ONTAP was a very specialized OS, and ONTAP GX or whatever it's called may be FreeBSD-based (with, I think, the NetApp-specific stuff running in special kernel-mode code rather than atop standard FreeBSD) but I'm not sure it supports arbitrary applications. I'm not sure whether the right solution is to drop "POSIX-compliant" or to put NetApp's machines into a separate category; I'm inclined towards the latter. In addition, OS X and iOS could be considered to fall under the heading of "BSD", but it might be worth mentioning OS X separately (you wouldn't be able to install zic-compiled tables on non-jailbroken iOS, so I wouldn't mention it). (Oh, and you might want to say "Solaris" or "Oracle" rather than "Sun", given that Sun Microsystems no longer exists.)

1 0

Sakha Republic bugs - eight months passed - still not fixed
by Tobias Conradi May 7, 2012

May 7, 2012

1) Since September 2011 - at least - there is disagreement between reported law and tzdb for current offsets in Bulunsky Ulus, Oymyakonsky Ulus, Tomponsky Ulus, Ust-Maysky Ulus which are located in Russia. On 2012-04-29 (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-April/017639.html) it was defined by a TZ maintainer that: "The first order of business is to ensure that current (2012) time stamps are handled correctly throughout Russia." So, I assume the below could fall under first order of business. 2012-09-16 Alexander Krivenyshev reported differences http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008798.html 2012-09-16 Tobias Conradi wondered whether there was a change in offset or the TZ DB simply contained false data Two zones are proposed in case the data is correct for the time before the decree took effect Asia/Khandyga (setup changed later) Asia/Ust-Nera containing Oymyakonsky http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008799.html 2012-09-17 Arthur David Olson makes a summary http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008818.html 2012-09-20 Tobias Conradi changes the proposal for Asia/Khandyga to only contain Tomponsky, Ust-Maysky http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008836.html 2012-09-27 Arthur David Olson asks for old decree "Decree #725 indicates that it abrogates Decree #23 of January 8, 1992 (among other things abrogated); is the abrogated decree available online?" http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008898.html 2012-09-27 Sanjeev Gupta provides a link to the scan http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966 http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008899.html 2012-10-02 Arthur David Olson makes some analysis of the data http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008933.html 2012-10-02 Yury Tarasievich clarifies that the sections contain border descriptions and additionally writes "BTW, the document only notes the possibility, but doesn't explicitly refer to the then actual (Soviet) practice for the large territories to observe the zonal time of the neighbouring timezone." http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008935.html Now follows my interpretation of http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966 (granitsa mezhdy = border between) page 5 section about Zone 8 - Zone 9 border Zone 8/left: Bulunsky Raion Zone 9/right: Ust-Maysky Raion + Tomponsky Raion page 6 section about Zone 9 - Zone 10 border Zone 10/right: Oymyakonsky Raion Which, except for Bulunsky Raion, is what according to "tzdata2012c/europe" Oscar van Vlijmen did report, but no sources were cited for. That would mean that: A) two zones need to be created: Asia/Ust-Nera Oymyakonsky Ulus Asia/Khandyga Tomponsky Ulus, Ust-Maysky Ulus both zones observing a change in offset towards Moscow Time in September 2011, exact time see below. B) Bulunsky Ulus needs a fix. Either 2009-11-29 Oscar van Vlijmen report is correct, then a new zone is needed or it is not correct, then the report should be removed or marked deprecated and the data from the 1992 decree could be used for the time before the 2011 decree became effective. Time of change: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7 "Опубликован: "Российская Газета", No.197, 6 сентября 2011 г" My translation: ~Published ..... 2011-09-06 "Effective as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication." which would mean the law became effective 2011-09-13 a Tuesday. http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html "Дата первой официальной публикации: 6 сентября 2011 г" My translation: First official publication 2011-09-06. Note: That all leaves out effects as mentioned in the above cited 2012-10-02 comment by Yury Tarasievich. Maybe there was no offset change relative to Moscow Time, so no zones are needed. But in absence of reports supporting deviation from the 1992 decree boundaries for any of the four raion/ulus I would follow the 1992 decreed zone boundaries. 2) Law 2011 Sakha Republic is split by decree #725 http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ between Zone 7 - Moscow Time + 6 ...Bulunskij, Tomponskij, Ust'-Majskij... Zone 8 - Moscow Time + 7 ...Ojmyakonskij... Zone 9 - Moscow Time + 8 3) TZDB 2012 tzdata2012c\europe splits Sakha as follows # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Aldanskij, Amginskij, Anabarskij, # Verkhnevilyujskij, Vilyujskij, Gornyj, # Zhiganskij, Kobyajskij, Lenskij, Megino-Kangalasskij, Mirninskij, # Namskij, Nyurbinskij, Olenyokskij, Olyokminskij, # Suntarskij, Tattinskij, Ust'-Aldanskij, Khangalasskij, # Churapchinskij, Eveno-Bytantajskij Natsional'nij. Zone Asia/Yakutsk (zone.tab: Moscow+06) # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, Tomponskij, Ust'-Majskij, # Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok (zone.tab: Moscow+07) # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, # Nizhnekolymskij, Ojmyakonskij, Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan (zone.tab: Moscow+08) -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

6 11

Unsubscribe
by Brenda Burnell (bburnell) May 7, 2012

May 7, 2012

6 5

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Steve Jones May 7, 2012

May 7, 2012

At 02:55 5/6/2012, Tobias Conradi wrote: >If a majority in a given country does not observe what the law >mandates, I would ask on the tz mailing list, whether the >information for that area should be changed. Not sure if this adds to or distracts from the conversation, but when I set out to provide accurate time zone borders for North America and eventually realized any such effort needed the sort of caveat I include for <http://ontimezone.com/>http://ontimezone.com: Ours is really just an "interpretation" of time zone data, because current time zone boundary data is elusive. And once you think you have nailed down the official "legislated" time zone, you learn about differences between that and the locally "observed" time zone... Wherever locally "observed" time differs from official, the main borders in OnTimeZone.com follow the observed time - which is what a traveler is likely to actually encounter. A problem with that is that unofficial "observed" differences typically follow vague "areas of influence" which defy precise definition. But we had to draw them somewhere. Usually these borders are in very lightly settled areas - and we took pains to draw them on the correct side of any area which may have businesses or services. That was our intent anyway - corrections appreciated! Wherever these areas are in the US, the official border is also drawn in green, for reference purposes. No attempt was made to do this for other countries, because distinctions between official and unofficial blur a bit in the various political subdivisions within most countries. In the US all official time zone borders are well and clearly documented by a single source - the US Dept. of Transportation. But be aware that within an area where observed practice differs from official, there are often internal exceptions such as Polling places, Post Offices or other federal offices, and sometimes law enforcement or various other levels of government -- who may observe official time even if the rest of the community does not. Commonly bars or liquor stores in these areas observe official time. This can provide quite a competitive advantage for properly situated bars, when last-call sojourners migrate across an official time zone border to cadge one more hour of bliss. Cheers, Steve Jones

2 1

proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts
by OvV_HN May 6, 2012

May 6, 2012

A couple of additional tidbits, probably not really contributing to the Russian timezones discussion, but possibly interesting to some. Most details are from memory; I have not the time to look up all references. 1) Back then another contributor to the TZ list looked up which districts (ulusy) of Sakha (Jakutija) were in which timezone. I merely incorporated his research into my report on all Russian timezones. I tried to give him credits, but his name was somehow lost in the comments in the TZ file. I forgot, I have lost the emails, if reference is needed: please look it up yourself in the TZ mail archive. 2) Transliteration scheme: back then I chose for the Chemical Abstracts transliteration which had 2 advantages: (a) two-way, (b) Posix 1 compatible. Two-way means: the transliterated text can be transformed back into Russian again. With schemes like GOST 7.79 (ISO 9) and several other schemes, only one-way transliteration is possible. Why Posix 1? Because the text files in the TZ distribution have no document type definition, nor any character set designation. Furthermore, the rest of the database and the software should be Posix 1 compatible, I learned from the TZ maintainers. Hence: thou shalt not use any characters beyond 7-bits ASCII or so. 3) Districts in Sakha are in this republic called ulusy (nominative case; singular: ulus), in several other Russian publications they are called rajony (singular: rajon). The law (see my point 5) gives both terms. I think "districts" is close enough for a text comment in English. 4) With respect to the transliteration scheme in the comments: what are we talking about? At any rate not about any vital part of the TZ software. I wouldn't give it much more attention, if I may suggest. 5) The law (http://www.garant.ru/hotlaw/federal/346568/) states very clearly which Sakha districts are in which timezone. Please check this for current times in the TZ database, if not done already. There is however one not so clear part, namely the Newsiberian Islands. From memory I recall that one TZ contributor said they are administered from the central government of the republic. Heaving read several texts and looked at a couple of Russian maps, I'm inclined to believe the islands are part of the Bulunskij Ulus. Regretfully I have no definitive reference for you. Then again: how many people actually live in this reserve? So, what is the effect if we put it into the wrong timezone? Oscar van Vlijmen

4 6

Revised proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts
by Arthur David Olson May 6, 2012

May 6, 2012

I've attached revised proposed changes for past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts; they also appear below (with tab characters mangled). I've added references provided by Dmitry V. Lenin to the "europe" file. I've changed "west Siberia" to "Omsk" in the "zone.tab" file. I've left unchanged the quote from "translate.google.com (since it is a quote.) For now, I've left unchanged the names provided by Oscar van Vlijmen; I hope we can defer issues of translation and transliteration until finishing the work on past changes in western Siberia and on 2011 changes. --ado diff -r -c old/europe new/europe *** old/europe 2012-05-02 17:54:22.581472200 -0400 --- new/europe 2012-05-05 09:40:53.091364400 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.41 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.43 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. *************** *** 2164,2182 **** 4:00 Russia SVE%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 5:00 Russia YEK%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 6:00 - YEKT # Yekaterinburg Time ! # ! # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] ! # Respublika Altaj, Altajskij kraj, Omskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Omsk 4:53:36 - LMT 1919 Nov 14 5:00 - OMST 1930 Jun 21 # Omsk TIme 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 5:00 Russia OMS%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 7:00 - OMST ! # ! # From Paul Eggert (2006-08-19): I'm guessing about Tomsk here; it's ! # not clear when it switched from +7 to +6. ! # Novosibirskaya oblast', Tomskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Novosibirsk 5:31:40 - LMT 1919 Dec 14 6:00 6:00 - NOVT 1930 Jun 21 # Novosibirsk Time 7:00 Russia NOV%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s --- 2164,2223 ---- 4:00 Russia SVE%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 5:00 Russia YEK%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 6:00 - YEKT # Yekaterinburg Time ! ! # From Tobias Conradi (2011-09-17): ! # I know that Wikipedia is not reliable, still I would like to start with: ! # <a href=" http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0… "> ! # http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0… ! # </a> ! ! # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-02): ! # According to ! # <a href=" http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://ru.wikipedia.org… "> ! # http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://ru.wikipedia.org… ! # </a>: "...the regions of Western Siberia, ! # formerly stationed in the area of MSK+4, ! # switched to the time of MSK+3, joining the Omsk Time: ! # Novosibirsk Region May 23, 1993 at 00:00, ! # Altai and the Altai Republic May 28, 1995 at 4:00 am, ! # Tomsk Region May 1, 2002 at 3:00 am." ! ! # From Dmitry V. Levin (2012-05-03): ! # ! # Novosibirsk Region May 23, 1993 at 00:00 ! # An article in a newspaper archive (in Russian): ! # <a href="http://vedomosti.sfo.ru/articles/?article=20345"> ! # http://vedomosti.sfo.ru/articles/?article=20345 ! # </a> ! # (Refers to a resolution of the Legislative Assembly of Novosibirsk Region ! # On Transferring to the Fifth Time Zone). ! # ! # ! # Altai and the Altai Republic May 28, 1995 at 4:00 am ! # Text of the Resolution (in Russian): ! # <a href="http://altai.regionz.ru/index.php?ds=1326596"> ! # http://altai.regionz.ru/index.php?ds=1326596 ! # </a> ! # (State Assembly-El Kurultai of the Altai Republic Resolution #8-11 of ! # 6 April 1995 On Transferring the Altai Republic to the Fifth Time Zone. ! # Mentions: Altai Krai Legislative Assembly Resolution #35 of 3 March 1995 ! # On Transferring Altai Krai to the Fifth Time Zone). ! # ! # ! # Tomsk Region May 1, 2002 at 3:00 am ! # Text of the Resolution (in Russian): ! # <a href="http://docs.kodeks.ru/document/901815739"> ! # http://docs.kodeks.ru/document/901815739 ! # </a> ! # (Government of the Russian Federation. Resolution #246 of 17 April 2002 ! # On Using the Time of the Fifth Time Zone on the Territory of Tomsk Oblast). ! ! # Omskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Omsk 4:53:36 - LMT 1919 Nov 14 5:00 - OMST 1930 Jun 21 # Omsk TIme 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 5:00 Russia OMS%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 7:00 - OMST ! ! # Novosibirskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Novosibirsk 5:31:40 - LMT 1919 Dec 14 6:00 6:00 - NOVT 1930 Jun 21 # Novosibirsk Time 7:00 Russia NOV%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s *************** *** 2185,2190 **** --- 2226,2249 ---- 6:00 Russia NOV%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 7:00 - NOVT + # Respublika Altaj, Altajskij kraj. + Zone Asia/Barnaul 5:35:00 - LMT 1919 Nov 14 + 6:00 - BART 1930 Jun 21 # Barnaul Time + 7:00 Russia BAR%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 6:00 Russia BAR%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 7:00 Russia BAR%sT 1995 May 28 4:00s # wikipedia.ru + 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 7:00 - OMST + + # Tomskaya oblast'. + Zone Asia/Tomsk 5:39:52 - LMT 1919 Dec 14 6:00 + 6:00 - TOMT 1930 Jun 21 # Tomsk Time + 7:00 Russia TOM%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 6:00 Russia TOM%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 7:00 Russia TOM%sT 2002 May 1 3:00s # wikipedia.ru + 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 7:00 - OMST + # From Alexander Krivenyshev (2009-10-13): # Kemerovo oblast' (Kemerovo region) in Russia will change current time zone on # March 28, 2010: diff -r -c old/zone.tab new/zone.tab *** old/zone.tab 2012-05-02 17:54:34.515493100 -0400 --- new/zone.tab 2012-05-05 09:40:50.719228800 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.55 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.57 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 336,343 **** RU +4844+04425 Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea RU +5312+05009 Europe/Samara Moscow+00 - Samara, Udmurtia RU +5651+06036 Asia/Yekaterinburg Moscow+02 - Urals ! RU +5500+07324 Asia/Omsk Moscow+03 - west Siberia RU +5502+08255 Asia/Novosibirsk Moscow+03 - Novosibirsk RU +5345+08707 Asia/Novokuznetsk Moscow+03 - Novokuznetsk RU +5601+09250 Asia/Krasnoyarsk Moscow+04 - Yenisei River RU +5216+10420 Asia/Irkutsk Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal --- 336,345 ---- RU +4844+04425 Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea RU +5312+05009 Europe/Samara Moscow+00 - Samara, Udmurtia RU +5651+06036 Asia/Yekaterinburg Moscow+02 - Urals ! RU +5500+07324 Asia/Omsk Moscow+03 - Omsk RU +5502+08255 Asia/Novosibirsk Moscow+03 - Novosibirsk + RU +5322+08345 Asia/Barnaul Moscow+03 - Altai + RU +5800+08458 Asia/Tomsk Moscow+03 - Tomsk RU +5345+08707 Asia/Novokuznetsk Moscow+03 - Novokuznetsk RU +5601+09250 Asia/Krasnoyarsk Moscow+04 - Yenisei River RU +5216+10420 Asia/Irkutsk Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal

3 4

Sakha Republic - raion, ulus, district
by Tobias Conradi May 5, 2012

May 5, 2012

In reply to Oscar van Vlijmen 2012-05-04 (ca. 20:06 - not sure what offsets my mailer uses) ============= "[tz] proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts" >> http://www.garant.ru/hotlaw/federal/346568/ >> ???? (ulus) not found on that page > > Them trolls! Good you looked into this! > The complete text of the law is now published at: > http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ ============== The 1992 http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966 only has raion as far as I could see. 2011 http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ for Sakha has ulus with raion in parentheses. while the summary at http://www.garant.ru/hotlaw/federal/346568/ has only raion. All non-English Wikipedias use a form of "Ulus" for an article about an individual ulus, only the English WP does not, e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyysky_District I suggest using only transliteration (i.e. raion or ulus) instead of using the term "district" for the tz database. This avoids issues with other entities that may be translated as district. Following are two examples of other translations for the pair raion=district. Economic raion -> Economic region http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_regions_of_Russia Federal okrug -> Federal district http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_districts_of_Russia -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts
by OvV_HN May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

Replying to: [tz] proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts Tobias Conradi tobias.conradi at gmail.com Fri May 4 16:43:02 UTC 2012 2) > ISO_9 is two way, isn't it? System A and B of ISO 9 are meant to be 2-way, but System A cannot be represented in ASCII 7-bits. System B can. Be my guest. 3) > http://www.garant.ru/hotlaw/federal/346568/ > ???? (ulus) not found on that page Them trolls! Good you looked into this! The complete text of the law is now published at: http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ Oscar van Vlijmen

1 0

proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts
by OvV_HN May 3, 2012

May 3, 2012

In reply to: Tobias Conradi tobias.conradi at gmail.com Thu May 3 15:02:15 UTC 2012 First I suggest to change "[This region consists of]" as e.g. in ! # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] to "[This zone consists of]" since I assume "region" here refers to the tzdb zone. Second I suggest to A) either use the names of the country subdivisions as in the Wikipedia article names...... etc., etc. Reply: With respect, but you can do whatever you want, TZ can do whatever they want, I don't care, but my advice would be: just stick as close as you can get (with a reasonable transliteration) to the official region names, as stated in the law regarding time zones, to be foud at: http://www.garant.ru/hotlaw/federal/346568/ (in Russian). Oscar van Vlijmen

2 1

proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts
by Arthur David Olson May 3, 2012

May 3, 2012

I've attached proposed changes to reflect past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts; the changes appear below with mangled tabs. Thanks to Tobias Conradi for providing information. --ado diff -r -c old/europe new/europe *** old/europe 2012-05-02 17:54:22.581472200 -0400 --- new/europe 2012-05-02 18:10:54.852205400 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.41 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.42 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. *************** *** 2164,2182 **** 4:00 Russia SVE%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 5:00 Russia YEK%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 6:00 - YEKT # Yekaterinburg Time ! # ! # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] ! # Respublika Altaj, Altajskij kraj, Omskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Omsk 4:53:36 - LMT 1919 Nov 14 5:00 - OMST 1930 Jun 21 # Omsk TIme 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 5:00 Russia OMS%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 7:00 - OMST ! # ! # From Paul Eggert (2006-08-19): I'm guessing about Tomsk here; it's ! # not clear when it switched from +7 to +6. ! # Novosibirskaya oblast', Tomskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Novosibirsk 5:31:40 - LMT 1919 Dec 14 6:00 6:00 - NOVT 1930 Jun 21 # Novosibirsk Time 7:00 Russia NOV%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s --- 2164,2196 ---- 4:00 Russia SVE%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 5:00 Russia YEK%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 6:00 - YEKT # Yekaterinburg Time ! ! # From Tobias Conradi (2011-09-17): ! # I know that Wikipedia is not reliable, still I would like to start with: ! # <a href=" http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0… "> ! # http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0… ! # </a> ! ! # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-02): ! # According to ! # <a href=" http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://ru.wikipedia.org… "> ! # http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://ru.wikipedia.org… ! # </a>: "...the regions of Western Siberia, ! # formerly stationed in the area of MSK+4, ! # switched to the time of MSK+3, joining the Omsk Time: ! # Novosibirsk Region May 23, 1993 at 00:00, ! # Altai and the Altai Republic May 28, 1995 at 4:00 am, ! # Tomsk Region May 1, 2002 at 3:00 am." ! ! # Omskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Omsk 4:53:36 - LMT 1919 Nov 14 5:00 - OMST 1930 Jun 21 # Omsk TIme 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 5:00 Russia OMS%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 7:00 - OMST ! ! # Novosibirskaya oblast'. Zone Asia/Novosibirsk 5:31:40 - LMT 1919 Dec 14 6:00 6:00 - NOVT 1930 Jun 21 # Novosibirsk Time 7:00 Russia NOV%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s *************** *** 2185,2190 **** --- 2199,2222 ---- 6:00 Russia NOV%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 7:00 - NOVT + # Respublika Altaj, Altajskij kraj. + Zone Asia/Barnaul 5:35:00 - LMT 1919 Nov 14 + 6:00 - BART 1930 Jun 21 # Barnaul Time + 7:00 Russia BAR%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 6:00 Russia BAR%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 7:00 Russia BAR%sT 1995 May 28 4:00s # wikipedia.ru + 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 7:00 - OMST + + # Tomskaya oblast'. + Zone Asia/Tomsk 5:39:52 - LMT 1919 Dec 14 6:00 + 6:00 - TOMT 1930 Jun 21 # Tomsk Time + 7:00 Russia TOM%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 6:00 Russia TOM%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 7:00 Russia TOM%sT 2002 May 1 3:00s # wikipedia.ru + 6:00 Russia OMS%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 7:00 - OMST + # From Alexander Krivenyshev (2009-10-13): # Kemerovo oblast' (Kemerovo region) in Russia will change current time zone on # March 28, 2010: diff -r -c old/zone.tab new/zone.tab *** old/zone.tab 2012-05-02 17:54:34.515493100 -0400 --- new/zone.tab 2012-05-02 17:53:52.504619400 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.55 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.56 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 338,343 **** --- 338,345 ---- RU +5651+06036 Asia/Yekaterinburg Moscow+02 - Urals RU +5500+07324 Asia/Omsk Moscow+03 - west Siberia RU +5502+08255 Asia/Novosibirsk Moscow+03 - Novosibirsk + RU +5322+08345 Asia/Barnaul Moscow+03 - Altai + RU +5800+08458 Asia/Tomsk Moscow+03 - Tomsk RU +5345+08707 Asia/Novokuznetsk Moscow+03 - Novokuznetsk RU +5601+09250 Asia/Krasnoyarsk Moscow+04 - Yenisei River RU +5216+10420 Asia/Irkutsk Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal

3 4

New Time Zone for Mexico- Quintana Roo state
by Alexander Krivenyshev May 3, 2012

May 3, 2012

According to news, Mexico Senate approved creating a new time zone for Quintana Roo state (Cancun, Cozumel) (in Spanish) Nuevo Huso Horario para QR será una hora de diferencia y no dos, aclara Senadora (audio); datos equivocados generaron confusión: EQR http://www.expedientequintanaroo.com/2012/04/nuevo-huso-horario-para-qr-ser… una.html Senado aprueba nuevo huso horario para Quintana Roo http://noticias.terra.com.mx/mexico/estados/senado-aprueba-nuevo-huso-horar… para-quintana-roo,9f5c873e0d7e6310VgnVCM5000009ccceb0aRCRD.html (brief in English) http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_mexico10.html This measure passed by the Senate and now have to be passed by the Chamber of Deputies. Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com

2 1

Bugs in Russia - Seven month past since 2011-09-17 - still not fixed
by Tobias Conradi May 3, 2012

May 3, 2012

Can these bugs please be fixed http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008809.html http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008937.html ? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/tobias_conradi

8 19

Re: [tz] Bugs in Russia - Seven month past since 2011-09-17 - still not fixed
by Robert Elz May 3, 2012

May 3, 2012

I received a copy of this message via private mail, not copied to the list - and replied (as below) - then I saw another copy of the message was sent to the list, so I am forwarding my reply to the list as well... Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:42:58 +0200 From: Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> Message-ID: <CAAGevbUqw308pGi7bYYNeZrwwvwtinqqskvW0Jv8aTOcESzMnA@mai= l.gmail.com> | Suggested new zone: | Asia/Barnaul, split from Asia/Omsk But why? What's different about the zones, aside from their names? | Moves to Omsk Time That tells me nothing. | FIX: oblast should be Republic. Do you mean that we should change the word we use? Could you explain why (and it would be better on the list than in private mail to m= e). | > that isn't "making up new rules on the fly" | If not on the fly, it should be specified in the Theory file, so that= | contributors are warned that their fixes may not be added for 7+ | months if they don't affect current time stamps. No, that's not why the changes you want didn't get made - it is because no-one understands what was supposed to be changed, or why. It might be obvious to you, it isn't to anyone else. | I think you are misinformed here. E.g. for | "Zone Asia/Omsk" it says in tzdata2012c\europe | #... [This region consists of] | # Respublika Altaj, Altajskij kraj, Omskaya oblast'. Sure, we attempt to indicate what region the zone applies in, and we will fix bugs in that if we understand what the bug is, but the purpose of the project isn't to make those mappings, that's one of the frills - we collect that data more so we know that we have all of the needed zones, not so the region data can be used for anything very useful. If that's allowed you to find a missing zone, that's great, but we can't just make a new zone with no data in it, we need to know what to put there, and it needs to be different from the existing zones, we avoid making duplicates (within a country). kre

2 1

Re: [tz] Bugs in Russia - Seven month past since 2011-09-17 - still not fixed
by Tobias Conradi May 3, 2012

May 3, 2012

> "Suggested new zone: > Asia/Barnaul, split from Asia/Omsk" > >>or why. > "Moves to Omsk Time" > > > I think I see the problem. "Split from Asia/Omsk" implies that the area > involved was already on Omsk time. If it moved to Omsk time, then it was > in some other zone previously, and is split from that zone. Andy, thanks for this. Actually both /could/ be true. The two Altais (proposed "Asia/Barnaul") could have observed the time of Asia/Omsk in the past (Omsk Time), then for some years they didn't, because Omsk changed it's offset from Moscow. So the split from Omsk occurred in reality too. Later they join Omsk Time (Omsk Time Zone), i.e. observe the time of Asia/Omsk tz zone, but they stay in Asia/Barnaul tz zone. But at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omsk_Time I see no indication that the Altais did observe Omsk Time in the past. It looks as if it was Novosibirsk Time, i.e. when Novosibirsk changed to Omsk Time, Novosibirsk and the Altais split. So the real split occurred from Asia/Novosibirsk. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Morroco changes
by Sebastien WILLEMIJNS May 1, 2012

May 1, 2012

http://www.lavieeco.com/news/actualites/gmt-1-officialise-pour-de-bon-21957… http://french.cri.cn/621/2012/04/29/442s279539.htm dunno if TZ change has been done recently or it is for next year...

7 9

tzdata2012c contains tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, change to tz@iana.org?
by Tobias Conradi May 1, 2012

May 1, 2012

# This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better, # go ahead and edit the file (and please send any changes to # tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov for general use in the future). Maybe change tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov to tz(a)iana.org ? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Re: [tz] Russia questions regarding 2010 and 2011
by Tobias Conradi April 30, 2012

April 30, 2012

Thanks for explaining how you see things. On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Marc Lehmann <schmorp(a)schmorp.de> wrote: > On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:28:20PM +0200, Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> 3) You are not the position to decide what is needed and what not. >> 4) I know Ado does this voluntary as anyone else that did contribute >> facts. Maybe you too. > > Did you just post a private mail to a public mailinglist? If yes, that's > really rude. > > In any case, he was right, your comment and tone were (are) completely > uncalled for. There is also a big difference between what you did and > what ado did, so pulling him down on your level of contribution is very > arrogant of you. > > Last not least, dealing this out, and then being superpicky because > somebody called you "mate" (which is nothing special) is rather childish - > maybe this can be attributed to a lack of understanding of the english > language? > > If that's the case, you should listen when people react "weirdly": English > is full of subtleties - it's often a hint that you sounded more arrogant > than you actually intended to. > > Just a well-meant hint. > > -- > The choice of a > -----==- _GNU_ > ----==-- _ generation > ---==---(_)__ __ ____ __ Marc Lehmann > --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / schmorp(a)schmorp.de > -=====/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/tobias_conradi

2 1

New zone for DE, split from Europe/Berlin
by Mr tobias conradi April 30, 2012

April 30, 2012

The German exclave of Büsingen (http://www.buesingen.de/) surrounded by the Swiss canton Schaffhausen, did not start observing DST in 1980 as the rest of DE (West Germany at that time) and DD (East Germany at that time) did. DD merged into DE, the area is currently covered by code DE in ISO 3166-1, which in turn is covered by the zone Europe/Berlin. Source for the time in Büsingen 1980: http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?id=c012c029-03b7-4c2b-9164-aa5902cd58d3 Suggested zone name: Europe/Busingen (removing diacritics as does UN/LOCODE) OR Europe/Buesingen (resolving as in German language) -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin, Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

6 8

Re: [tz] Russia questions regarding 2010 and 2011
by Tobias Conradi April 30, 2012

April 30, 2012

1) I am not your mate. 2) The question was not rhetorical. 3) You are not the position to decide what is needed and what not. 4) I know Ado does this voluntary as anyone else that did contribute facts. Maybe you too. On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:10 PM, Paw Boel Nielsen <pawboelnielsen(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Hey mate, > > About your latest mail to the tz-mail-list: > >>> Does >>> anyone know whether folks in Russia now think of themselves as being >>> on "permanent daylight saving time" or think of themselves as having >>> new, different standard times? >>"folks" sounds quite unspecific. Do you mean people living in areas that >> "did not turn its clocks back in the fall" as claimed in the first sentence? > > I am assuming you comment about "folks" is rhetorical in which case kindly > refrain from posting that kind of comments in the future, it doesn't add > anything positive to the forum. > Ado does his work voluntarily, and your comment is unneeded. > > Kind regards, > Paw > > > -----Original > Message----- > From: tz-bounces(a)iana.org [mailto:tz-bounces@iana.org] On Behalf Of Tobias > Conradi > Sent: 29 April 2012 20:24 > To: tz(a)iana.org > Subject: [tz] Russia questions regarding 2010 and 2011 > > On Sun, Apr 29, > 2012 at 4:50 PM, Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson...> wrote: > >> 1. Some > areas of Russia reportedly changed time zones in 2011. Does >> anyone know > the exact instants at which these changes were made (both >> date and > time for each affected region, since the instant at which the >> change was > made may vary from region to region)? > Could you name > what areas you refer to, so people can search more precisely for what you > want > to know? > > Which reports do > you refer to? > > In 2011 there > were talks on the mailing list about issues with Yakutia and with Sakhalin. > > I myself did > suggest new zones that may be needed, given the old information in the tzdb > was > correct: > http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008799.html > >> 2. In 2010 > much of Russia did not turn its clocks back in the fall. > Can you cite a > reference for that claim? > >> Does >> anyone know > whether folks in Russia now think of themselves as being >> on > "permanent daylight saving time" or think of themselves as having >> new, > different standard times? > "folks" > sounds quite unspecific. Do you mean people living in areas that "did not > turn its clocks back in the fall" as claimed in the first sentence? > > -- > Tobias Conradi > Rheinsberger > Str. 18 > 10115 Berlin > Germany > > http://tobiasconradi.com > -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

2 2