April 2013 - tz - lists.iana.org

Complete list of IANA time zone abbreviations
by Tobias Conradi April 16, 2013

April 16, 2013

Is a complete list of IANA time zone abbreviations available in the WWW? I found: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations * http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/ * http://www.timegenie.com/timezones.php All list ACDT which, as of today, is not an IANA abbreviation, so these listings are not what I am looking for. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Suggesting an ISO standard for time zone identification - possible replacement of IANA abbreviations
by Tobias Conradi April 16, 2013

April 16, 2013

Dear Mr. Carpenter, this email is send to you, because you are listed as the secretary for the "TC 46/SC 9 Identification and description". Maybe you can forward it to the relevant office or tell me where else I can email to. I suggest that the ISO creates an ISO standard for time zone identification. Current abbreviations in the IANA time zone database are ambiguous, e.g. IST may refer to Israel Standard Time or India Standard Time. The standard could be used in the IANA time zone database and projects that collect time zone related data, e.g. laws and translations of names. Since time zone law is country related one could look whether ISO 3166 can be used. The IANA time zone database has the stated aim of being correct for all regions in the world after the year 1970. Although the earliest ISO 3166 country code standard on the ISO website is ISO 3166:1981, web search for ISO 3166 1974 gives several hits claiming the first publication was in 1974. If there have been countries between 1970 and 1974 that have no ISO 3166 code one can use codes from the user-assigned code space. So the first two letters might be ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code based. But I suggest checking whether the alpha-3 codes or numeric codes are a better fit. Further letters may then mark regions inside a country and special restricted time shifts, e.g. daylight saving time. Such a structured set could look like: AUEDT - Australia Eastern Daylight saving Time AUCDT - United States Central Daylight saving Time AUWDT - Australia Western Daylight saving Time EUEDT - EU Eastern Daylight saving Time EUCDT - EU Central Daylight saving Time EUWDT - EU Western Daylight saving Time IDEST - Indonesia Eastern Standard Time IDCST - Indonesia Central Standard Time IDWST - Indonesia Western Standard Time USEDT - United States Eastern Daylight saving Time USCDT - United States Central Daylight saving Time USPDT - United States Pacific Daylight saving Time Kind regards Tobias Conradi -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

1 0

Palestine DST starts on 2013-03-29
by Steffen Thorsen April 15, 2013

April 15, 2013

The following news sources tells that Palestine will " start daylight saving time from midnight on Friday, March 29, 2013" (translated). http://www.samanews.com/index.php?act=Show&id=154120 (Gaza) http://safa.ps/details/news/99844/%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%… (Ramallah, West Bank) No end date given, but we assume it will end the last Sunday of September. Our background info: http://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/palestine-starts-dst-2013.html Best regards, Steffen Thorsen - timeanddate.com

4 6

morroco in summer time the 28th april
by Sebastien WILLEMIJNS April 13, 2013

April 13, 2013

Hello, Morocco was a thread here so i speak again about it / saw on google: http://www.lemag.ma/Le-Maroc-passe-a-l-heure-d-ete-le-dimanche-28-avril_a69… H+60 the 28th april at 2am. this time will be suspended during the ramadan month.

2 1

Patch use LHDT/LHST/LHHDT since HD HS DD DS are common practice
by Tobias Conradi April 13, 2013

April 13, 2013

Patch australasia.20130411.withLHHDT is linked from http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database - I don't link to the actual location, because that may change. And I don't email, because I don't know what the email client does with the file. The patch includes AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT CWST/CWDT LHDT/LHST/LHHDT -------- The bom.gov.au-patch introduces new syntax, which for itself might be fine, but this new syntax is less informative than the established one and might be seen as deterioration to the whole database. No single use of single "D" for non-1:00 saving has been found by me. There is one single "D" in a LHDT but there it referred to a 1:00 saving. Be consistent, apply common practice established by the maintainers and use: HD 0:30 LHHDT Australia/Lord_Howe For non 1:00 DST offsets the database contains: DD 2:00 NDDT America/St_Johns IDDT Asia/Jerusalem DS 2:00 MDST - Moscow Double Summer Time, BDST - British Double Summer Time HD 0:30 CHDT America/Belize CHDT EHDT America/Santo_Domingo HS 0:30 UYHST America/Montevideo IHST Asia/Colombo CKHST Pacific/Rarotonga HS 0:20 GHST Africa/Accra -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] [PATCH 0/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

I would like to offer (again) the following evidence in support of Timothy's request for a patch to eliminate the ambiguous time zone abbreviations from the TZ Database. The assertion from John Mackin that "We in Australia have _never_ referred to DST as `daylight' time." is patently untrue - the video from four corners (posted previously - see below) is clear evidence that the term is used and has been in use since well before John Mackin's statement from 1991. Language is a living thing it changes and evolves over time so it is possible that in 1991 "summer time" was in vogue. It is also possible that John Mackin comes from the culture of British migrants that may well have used this term due to their British heritage. Either way the Google searches of government web sites show that the phrase "daylight saving" is used, formally, more frequently then "summer time". There are many problems with searching the broader context of .au web sites for frequency of use of "EST" vs. "EDT" and "summer time" vs. "daylight saving": "EST" vs. "EDT" Only tree of the four states in the "Eastern Standard Timezone" have daylight savings and they only have it for aprox. four of the twelve months in the year. And as someone pointed out before many web sites unwittingly use the TZ Database data to automatically timestamp pages. So the frequency of use of "EST" is destined to be much higher then "EDT" and therefore the search is meaningless. "summer time" vs. "daylight saving" "daylight saving" has, pretty much, one unambiguous meaning where as "summer time" (summertime) has so many that have nothing what so ever to do with "daylight saving": - "Summertime" is an aria composed by George Gershwin for the 1935 opera Porgy and Bess. - Summertime is a 1955 American/British Technicolor drama film directed by David Lean - May refer to "British summer time"; given Australia's long association with the mother country old newspapers etc. online often refer to "British summer time" - It may refer to (as it does in many countries) the *seasonal* time of summer as in "summer time and the living is easy". As evidence of this I searched Trove (the National Library of Australia's online collection of digitised Newspapers etc.) <http://trove.nla.gov.au> for these phrases separately "EST", "EDT", "summer time" and "daylight saving". I searched only Australian content and only the Digitised newspapers section, the results were as follows: "EST" = 2,049,093 "EDT" = 27,401 "Summer time" = 55,120 "daylight saving" = 11,960 The only one of these which returns relatively unambiguous results is "daylight saving" and here is why: The first full page of the search for "EST" does not contain a single reference to time. "EST" (Est.) is a very commonly used abbreviation for Established for one thing. "EDT" is just as ambiguous. "daylight saving", is much less ambiguous all-though searching for it will return the likes of "Nothing but fair weather and daylight saved". The earliest use of the term (we never use) is in 1908 referring to the "Daylight Saving Bill" it is referred to in more than a dozen daily newspapers of the time. "Mr. Robert Pearce, tbe member for the Leek division of Staffordshire, is a humorist. To the intense amusement of the House the other day he gravely introducedva measure called the "Daylight_ Saving Bill," by which he proposes, bv an ingenious juggling with' the hoursof the clock, to actually give us more daylight! Mr. Pcarce's project is on the first four Sundays in April to put on the clock 20 minutes between 2 a.m. and 3 p.m., each hour, therefore consisting of only 40 minutes. Similarly it is propo^d in September that the same hour in the morning should consist of 80 minutes. The annual gain of daylight Mr. Pearce esti-mates at 210 hours." [sic.] "Summer time" very rarely refers to Australian "daylight saving time" as can be seen from a selection of results from the first page of the search... ----- Sunday Times (Perth, WA : 1902 - 1954) Sunday 2 November 1947 p 2 Article ... Summertime LONDON, Sat: British summertime time ends tomorrow, when G.M.T. will be restored. Change officially occurs at 3.30 a.m. ----- The Daily News (Perth, WA : 1882 - 1950) Saturday 22 August 1936 Edition: GOLDFIELDS EDITION p 16 Article ... Summertime Summertime is coming near; I heard a blowfly yesterday. Mosquitoes buzzing here and there Are signs that summer's on the way. People talk about the flowers In bloom, and skies of azure blue. I can tell that winter's hours Are few another way, can't you? Winter jumpers are not seen So ... ----- Examiner (Launceston, Tas. : 1900 - 1954) Saturday 24 February 1917 Edition: DAILY p 7 Article ... SUMMER TIME. It is understood that the Government will introduce summer time to operate between April 8 and September 23. ... ----- Oh. Before you jump on that last one look at the dates then realise that it was in a section of the paper headed "British Parliament." In conclusion there is little real unambiguous evidence out there that prooves "summer time" is more commonly used in Australia *to refer to* "Daylight Saving(s) Time" than the phrase "Daylight Saving(s) Time". In actual fact there is more evidence to prove the oposite. Formally the majority of Australian government websites refer to "Daylight Saving(s) Time" and this is the part of the TZ Database that we Australian users disagree with and wish to have changed. ----- search: legislation "standard time" "daylight saving" site:.gov.au About 25,600 results (0.21 seconds) search: legislation "standard time" "summer time" site:.gov.au About 15,600 results (0.14 seconds) N.B. ".gov.au" searches all state and federal official sites as they all use this domain. (e.g. Federal = just .gov.au, State i.e. Victoria = .vic.gov.au ). ----- An interesting video from the 1970's Four Corners program on the ABC (Australia's national broadcaster, ICYDK) on the introduction of "Daylight Saving" in Tasmania. Note the consistent use of that term "Daylight Saving", "Summer Time" is never mentioned (FYI It's a predominantly British term) and take a look at the flight attendant's bonnet! http://www.abc.net.au/archives/80days/stories/2012/01/19/3415208.htm Regards, Peter Stagg Web Developer - Radar Systems, AMDIS, +61 3 9669-4232, www.bom.gov.au ----- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:50:04 +1000 From: Timothy Arceri <T.Arceri(a)bom.gov.au> Subject: [tz] [PATCH 0/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] To: "'tz(a)iana.org' (tz(a)iana.org)" <tz(a)iana.org> Message-ID: <7F491A8A71010C4E8B0266E3478C047A0220B1760322(a)BOM-VMBX-HO.bom.gov.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <delitia> The reason for the current situation is documented in the Australasia data file: >From John Mackin (1991-03-06): "We in Australia have _never_ referred to DST as `daylight' time. It is called `summer' time. Now by a happy coincidence, `summer' and `standard' happen to start with the same letter; hence, the abbreviation does _not_ change..." -----

9 17

Gaza DST
by Keith Harris April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

Hi All, Sorry I couldn't find a way to bump this issue via the original thread. Just wondering what the latest is on getting this change released. I've tested the latest version of the db from the repository and it has jodatime reporting the correct time for Gaza today. Be great to get this in place as I've got people missing their conference calls by an hour! (Thanks so much for all the hard work by everyone on the list - wonderful to see at least one bit of the world's technology just working the way it should :-D ) Keith Harris SoftlySoftware <http://softlysoftware.com>

2 1

Macquarie Island - ISO 3166-1 code AQ vs AU
by Tobias Conradi April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

Was Re: [tz] EST/EDT vs AEST/AEDT in AQ [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] I think the research for the correct ISO country for Macquarie Island is easier followable if kept in a separate thread. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Timothy Arceri <T.Arceri(a)bom.gov.au> wrote: >>>From: tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com [mailto:tobias.conradi@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Tobias >>>> We are simply trying to get the daylight savings abbreviations changed >>>> to what is *actually* used in Australia. >>>Macquarie Island in the IANA time zone database is AQ and not Australia. >> >> Macquarie island is part of Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_Island > > In Wikipedia, not in the IANA time zone database. > > ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab > > AQ -5430+15857 Antarctica/Macquarie Macquarie Island Station, Macquarie Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_Island categorized as belonging to Tasmania, which in turn is given as part of Australia. What is the reason to have Macquarie Island as AQ Antartica in the IANA time zone database? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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[PATCH 1/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Timothy Arceri April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

--- australasia 2013-02-21 07:00:40.000000000 +0000 +++ australasia_new 2013-04-10 00:39:26.000000000 +0000 @@ -13,13 +13,13 @@ # Please see the notes below for the controversy about "EST" versus "AEST" etc. # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule Aus 1917 only - Jan 1 0:01 1:00 - -Rule Aus 1917 only - Mar 25 2:00 0 - -Rule Aus 1942 only - Jan 1 2:00 1:00 - -Rule Aus 1942 only - Mar 29 2:00 0 - -Rule Aus 1942 only - Sep 27 2:00 1:00 - -Rule Aus 1943 1944 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 - -Rule Aus 1943 only - Oct 3 2:00 1:00 - +Rule Aus 1917 only - Jan 1 0:01 1:00 D +Rule Aus 1917 only - Mar 25 2:00 0 S +Rule Aus 1942 only - Jan 1 2:00 1:00 D +Rule Aus 1942 only - Mar 29 2:00 0 S +Rule Aus 1942 only - Sep 27 2:00 1:00 D +Rule Aus 1943 1944 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 S +Rule Aus 1943 only - Oct 3 2:00 1:00 D # Go with Whitman and the Australian National Standards Commission, which # says W Australia didn't use DST in 1943/1944. Ignore Whitman's claim that # 1944/1945 was just like 1943/1944. @@ -28,25 +28,25 @@ # Northern Territory Zone Australia/Darwin 8:43:20 - LMT 1895 Feb 9:00 - CST 1899 May - 9:30 Aus CST + 9:30 Aus C%sT # Western Australia # # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule AW 1974 only - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AW 1975 only - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AW 1983 only - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AW 1984 only - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AW 1991 only - Nov 17 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AW 1992 only - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AW 2006 only - Dec 3 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AW 2007 2009 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AW 2007 2008 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - +Rule AW 1974 only - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AW 1975 only - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AW 1983 only - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AW 1984 only - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AW 1991 only - Nov 17 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AW 1992 only - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AW 2006 only - Dec 3 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AW 2007 2009 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AW 2007 2008 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D Zone Australia/Perth 7:43:24 - LMT 1895 Dec - 8:00 Aus WST 1943 Jul - 8:00 AW WST + 8:00 Aus W%sT 1943 Jul + 8:00 AW W%sT Zone Australia/Eucla 8:35:28 - LMT 1895 Dec - 8:45 Aus CWST 1943 Jul - 8:45 AW CWST + 8:45 Aus CW%sT 1943 Jul + 8:45 AW CW%sT # Queensland # @@ -62,42 +62,42 @@ # so use Lindeman. # # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule AQ 1971 only - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AQ 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AQ 1989 1991 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AQ 1990 1992 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule Holiday 1992 1993 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule Holiday 1993 1994 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - +Rule AQ 1971 only - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AQ 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AQ 1989 1991 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AQ 1990 1992 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule Holiday 1992 1993 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule Holiday 1993 1994 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S Zone Australia/Brisbane 10:12:08 - LMT 1895 - 10:00 Aus EST 1971 - 10:00 AQ EST + 10:00 Aus E%sT 1971 + 10:00 AQ E%sT Zone Australia/Lindeman 9:55:56 - LMT 1895 - 10:00 Aus EST 1971 - 10:00 AQ EST 1992 Jul - 10:00 Holiday EST + 10:00 Aus E%sT 1971 + 10:00 AQ E%sT 1992 Jul + 10:00 Holiday E%sT # South Australia # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule AS 1971 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AS 1986 only - Oct 19 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AS 1987 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AS 1972 only - Feb 27 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1973 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1986 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1991 only - Mar 3 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1992 only - Mar 22 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1993 only - Mar 7 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1994 only - Mar 20 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 1995 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 2006 only - Apr 2 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AS 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - +Rule AS 1971 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AS 1986 only - Oct 19 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AS 1987 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AS 1972 only - Feb 27 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1973 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1986 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1991 only - Mar 3 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1992 only - Mar 22 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1993 only - Mar 7 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1994 only - Mar 20 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 1995 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 2006 only - Apr 2 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AS 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Australia/Adelaide 9:14:20 - LMT 1895 Feb 9:00 - CST 1899 May - 9:30 Aus CST 1971 - 9:30 AS CST + 9:30 Aus C%sT 1971 + 9:30 AS C%sT # Tasmania # @@ -106,106 +106,106 @@ # says King Island didn't observe DST from WWII until late 1971. # # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule AT 1967 only - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 1968 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1968 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 1969 1971 - Mar Sun>=8 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1982 1983 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1984 1986 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1986 only - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 1987 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 1987 only - Oct Sun>=22 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 1988 1990 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 1991 1999 - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 1991 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 2001 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AT 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AT 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - +Rule AT 1967 only - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 1968 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1968 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 1969 1971 - Mar Sun>=8 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1982 1983 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1984 1986 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1986 only - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 1987 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 1987 only - Oct Sun>=22 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 1988 1990 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 1991 1999 - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 1991 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 2001 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AT 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AT 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Australia/Hobart 9:49:16 - LMT 1895 Sep 10:00 - EST 1916 Oct 1 2:00 - 10:00 1:00 EST 1917 Feb - 10:00 Aus EST 1967 - 10:00 AT EST + 10:00 1:00 EDT 1917 Feb + 10:00 Aus E%sT 1967 + 10:00 AT E%sT Zone Australia/Currie 9:35:28 - LMT 1895 Sep 10:00 - EST 1916 Oct 1 2:00 - 10:00 1:00 EST 1917 Feb - 10:00 Aus EST 1971 Jul - 10:00 AT EST + 10:00 1:00 EDT 1917 Feb + 10:00 Aus E%sT 1971 Jul + 10:00 AT E%sT # Victoria # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule AV 1971 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AV 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 1973 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 1986 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 1986 1987 - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AV 1988 1999 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AV 1991 1994 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 1995 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AV 2001 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AV 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AV 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - +Rule AV 1971 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AV 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 1973 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 1986 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 1986 1987 - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AV 1988 1999 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AV 1991 1994 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 1995 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AV 2001 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AV 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AV 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Australia/Melbourne 9:39:52 - LMT 1895 Feb - 10:00 Aus EST 1971 - 10:00 AV EST + 10:00 Aus E%sT 1971 + 10:00 AV E%sT # New South Wales # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule AN 1971 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AN 1972 only - Feb 27 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 1982 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 1983 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 1986 1989 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 1986 only - Oct 19 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AN 1987 1999 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AN 1990 1995 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 1996 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AN 2001 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule AN 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule AN 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - +Rule AN 1971 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AN 1972 only - Feb 27 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 1982 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 1983 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 1986 1989 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 1986 only - Oct 19 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AN 1987 1999 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AN 1990 1995 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 1996 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AN 2001 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule AN 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule AN 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Australia/Sydney 10:04:52 - LMT 1895 Feb - 10:00 Aus EST 1971 - 10:00 AN EST + 10:00 Aus E%sT 1971 + 10:00 AN E%sT Zone Australia/Broken_Hill 9:25:48 - LMT 1895 Feb 10:00 - EST 1896 Aug 23 9:00 - CST 1899 May - 9:30 Aus CST 1971 - 9:30 AN CST 2000 - 9:30 AS CST + 9:30 Aus C%sT 1971 + 9:30 AN C%sT 2000 + 9:30 AS C%sT # Lord Howe Island # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule LH 1981 1984 - Oct lastSun 2:00 1:00 - -Rule LH 1982 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 1985 only - Oct lastSun 2:00 0:30 - -Rule LH 1986 1989 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 1986 only - Oct 19 2:00 0:30 - -Rule LH 1987 1999 - Oct lastSun 2:00 0:30 - -Rule LH 1990 1995 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 1996 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00 0:30 - -Rule LH 2001 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00 0:30 - -Rule LH 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00 0 - -Rule LH 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00 0:30 - +Rule LH 1981 1984 - Oct lastSun 2:00 1:00 D +Rule LH 1982 1985 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 1985 only - Oct lastSun 2:00 0:30 D +Rule LH 1986 1989 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 1986 only - Oct 19 2:00 0:30 D +Rule LH 1987 1999 - Oct lastSun 2:00 0:30 D +Rule LH 1990 1995 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 1996 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00 0:30 D +Rule LH 2001 2007 - Oct lastSun 2:00 0:30 D +Rule LH 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00 0 S +Rule LH 2008 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00 0:30 D Zone Australia/Lord_Howe 10:36:20 - LMT 1895 Feb 10:00 - EST 1981 Mar - 10:30 LH LHST + 10:30 LH LH%sT # Australian miscellany # @@ -841,39 +841,15 @@ # Implementation Dates of Daylight Saving Time within Australia # </a> summarizes daylight saving issues in Australia. -# From Arthur David Olson (2005-12-12): -# <a href="http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/Corporate/ll_agdinfo.nsf/pages/commun…"> -# Lawlink NSW:Daylight Saving in New South Wales -# </a> covers New South Wales in particular. - -# From John Mackin (1991-03-06): -# We in Australia have _never_ referred to DST as `daylight' time. -# It is called `summer' time. Now by a happy coincidence, `summer' -# and `standard' happen to start with the same letter; hence, the -# abbreviation does _not_ change... -# The legislation does not actually define abbreviations, at least -# in this State, but the abbreviation is just commonly taken to be the -# initials of the phrase, and the legislation here uniformly uses -# the phrase `summer time' and does not use the phrase `daylight -# time'. -# Announcers on the Commonwealth radio network, the ABC (for Australian -# Broadcasting Commission), use the phrases `Eastern Standard Time' -# or `Eastern Summer Time'. (Note, though, that as I say in the -# current australasia file, there is really no such thing.) Announcers -# on its overseas service, Radio Australia, use the same phrases -# prefixed by the word `Australian' when referring to local times; -# time announcements on that service, naturally enough, are made in UTC. - -# From Arthur David Olson (1992-03-08): -# Given the above, what's chosen for year-round use is: -# CST for any place operating at a GMTOFF of 9:30 -# WST for any place operating at a GMTOFF of 8:00 -# EST for any place operating at a GMTOFF of 10:00 +# From Timothy Arceri (2013-04-09) +# Webpage that lists the Australian Governments recommended time zone names and abbreviations: +# http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time +# +# NSW Goverment time definitions (covers time zones and abbreviations): +# http://www.communityrelations.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/cru/daylight/definitions_o… # From Chuck Soper (2006-06-01): -# I recently found this Australian government web page on time zones: -# <http://www.australia.gov.au/about-australia-13time> -# And this government web page lists time zone names and abbreviations: +# This government web page lists time zone names and abbreviations: # <http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/daysavtm.shtml> # From Paul Eggert (2001-04-05), summarizing a long discussion about "EST" @@ -957,6 +933,33 @@ # saying that both AEST/AEDT and EST/EST are widely used and # understood in Australia. +# From Timothy Arceri (2013-04-09), results from a long discussion about +# "EST" - Eastern Summer Time versus "EDT" - Eastern Daylight Time etc.: +# +# * Do Australians more often use "EDT" or "EST"? +# +# 875,000 "Eastern Standard Time (EST)" site:.au +# 655,000 "Eastern Standard Time (AEST)" site:.au +# +# 6 "Eastern Summer Time (EST)" site:.au +# 64 "Eastern Summer Time (AEST)" site:.au +# 30,500 "Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)" site:.au +# 180,000 "Eastern Daylight Time (AEDT)" site:.au +# +# 357,000 "Central Standard Time (CST)" site:.au +# 316 "Central Standard Time (ACST)" site:.au +# +# 4 "Central Summer Time (CST)" site:.au +# 0 "Central Summer Time (ACST)" site:.au +# +# 19,600 "Central Daylight Time (CDT)" site:.au +# 157 "Central Daylight Time (ACDT)" site:.au +# +# Here we are only looking at cases where the time zone abbreviation +# has been defined. These results show that the abbreviation for Daylight +# time EDT/AEDT/CDT/ACDT is overwhelmingly greater than the usage of the +# abbreviation for Summer time EST/AEST/CST/ACST + # From Paul Eggert (1995-12-19): # Shanks & Pottenger report 2:00 for all autumn changes in Australia and NZ. # Mark Prior writes that his newspaper

3 6

EST/EDT vs AEST/AEDT in AQ
by Tobias Conradi April 11, 2013

April 11, 2013

To use "EST/EDT" instead of "AEST/AEDT" in Antartica as is by this patch: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2013-April/018994.html and EST as is done by the IANA time zone database, could be a source of future confusion and discussion. Especially if other countries that have an EST/EDT abbreviated time inherited their abbreviations to AQ-zones. This is a vote to use AEST/AEDT, or switch completely to Internationalized time point unique abbreviations. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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[PATCH 2/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Timothy Arceri April 10, 2013

April 10, 2013

--- antarctica 2013-02-21 07:40:23.000000000 +0000 +++ antarctica_new 2013-04-10 00:50:55.000000000 +0000 @@ -54,32 +54,32 @@ Rule ChileAQ 2012 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 S # These rules are stolen from the `australasia' file. -Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Jan 1 0:01 1:00 - -Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Mar 25 2:00 0 - -Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Jan 1 2:00 1:00 - -Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Mar 29 2:00 0 - -Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Sep 27 2:00 1:00 - -Rule AusAQ 1943 1944 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 - -Rule AusAQ 1943 only - Oct 3 2:00 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1967 only - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1968 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1968 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1969 1971 - Mar Sun>=8 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1982 1983 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1984 1986 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1986 only - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1987 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1987 only - Oct Sun>=22 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1988 1990 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1991 1999 - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1991 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 2001 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - +Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Jan 1 0:01 1:00 D +Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Mar 25 2:00 0 S +Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Jan 1 2:00 1:00 D +Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Mar 29 2:00 0 S +Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Sep 27 2:00 1:00 D +Rule AusAQ 1943 1944 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 S +Rule AusAQ 1943 only - Oct 3 2:00 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1967 only - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1968 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1968 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1969 1971 - Mar Sun>=8 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1982 1983 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1984 1986 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1986 only - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1987 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1987 only - Oct Sun>=22 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1988 1990 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1991 1999 - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1991 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 2001 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S # Argentina - year-round bases # Belgrano II, Confin Coast, -770227-0343737, since 1972-02-05 @@ -167,9 +167,9 @@ 5:00 - MAWT Zone Antarctica/Macquarie 0 - zzz 1911 10:00 - EST 1916 Oct 1 2:00 - 10:00 1:00 EST 1917 Feb - 10:00 AusAQ EST 1967 - 10:00 ATAQ EST 2010 Apr 4 3:00 + 10:00 1:00 EDT 1917 Feb + 10:00 AusAQ E%sT 1967 + 10:00 ATAQ E%sT 2010 Apr 4 3:00 11:00 - MIST # Macquarie Island Time # References: # <a href="http://www.antdiv.gov.au/aad/exop/sfo/casey/casey_aws.html">

1 0

Patched file australasia - time point unique abbreviations for Australia
by Tobias Conradi April 10, 2013

April 10, 2013

A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database The new abbreviations are: AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT and currently without "A" prefix: CWST/CWDT - Eucla LHST/LHDT/LHHT - Lord Howe The letters before the final T mean: S - no daylight saving D - one hour daylight saving H - half hour daylight saving Error reports are welcome. Maybe someone can create a patch file. Some may favor using internationally disambiguated abbreviations, since AE might be interpreted as United Arab Emirates, AC as Ascension Island and AW as Aruba. It could also be desired to have constant length. Such internationally time point unique abbreviations could be used by CLDR for localization. The format could be "<country code><location><type>T" and a set for Australia, covering - except for LMTs (LMT=local mean time) - all times in the IANA time zone database could be: AUEST/AUEDT - East AUCST/AUCDT - Central AUWST/AUWDT - West AUUST/AUUDT - Eucla AUHST/AUHDT/AUHHT - Lord Howe -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 9, 2013

April 9, 2013

So I see the patronising attitude of the TZ database coordinators rages on :-) It has been said that their are inconsistencies in both Australian Federal & State legislation and common usage. This point can be conceded even though it is based on an assessment far removed from the actual situation. It has also been stated that the aim is to use labels and abbreviations for timezones that are most commonly used and understood. A good point as the intention is to make sure they are widely understood (FYI irony). However the basis for the decision to use the ambiguous terms and abbreviations 'Eastern Standard Time'; 'EST' and 'Eastern Summer Time'; 'EST' is a highly unscientific internet search and the paternalistic opinions of the coordinators. As there appears to be a fondness for search engine results in decision making why not try this one: australia EDT site:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/ Take a look at the number of times that, mostly Australians, have asked for the terms and abbreviations used for Australian time zones (esp. *D*aylight Saving Time) to be disambiguated. You might also look at the amount of frustration and acrimony the one-eyed, condescending responses of the coordinators and mostly non-Australian list members cause and consider how often this stops people from bothering to voice opinions and endeavouring to resolve issues. ----- On a lighter note and at the risk of hindering my own argument I'm surprised none of you jokers from out-of-town have pointed out 'ESST'; 'Eastern Standard Summer Time'. "Eastern Standard Summer Time" "ESST" site:.au about 1,810 results PS An interesting video from the 1970's Four Corners program on the ABC (Australia's national broadcaster, ICYDK) on the introduction of "Daylight Saving" in Tasmania. Note the consistent use of that term "Daylight Saving", "Summer Time" is never mentioned (FYI It's a predominantly British term) and take a look at the flight attendant's bonnet! http://www.abc.net.au/archives/80days/stories/2012/01/19/3415208.htm Peter Stagg

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Letter/s for half hour daylight saving
by Tobias Conradi April 9, 2013

April 9, 2013

I just discovered that there is some precedence to use different lettering for half hour saving time. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/australasia Rule Cook 1978 only - Nov 12 0:00 0:30 HS Rule Cook 1979 1991 - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 - Rule Cook 1979 1990 - Oct lastSun 0:00 0:30 HS # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Rarotonga -10:39:04 - LMT 1901 # Avarua -10:30 - CKT 1978 Nov 12 # Cook Is Time -10:00 Cook CK%sT So the recent LHHT did only deviate insofar as to use one letter (H) instead of two (HS). I added HS to the IANA time zone database documentation of abbreviations hosted at anna.info : http://anna.info/x/wiki/w/index.php?title=IANA_time_zone_database&diff=82&o… -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

TimeZine Info Problem
by dcernosia＠aol.com April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Guys, Ran into a little problem when I tried to process the latest TimeZone files ... a few rules, such as the one listed below, didn't process correctly ... I think there are extra tabs separating the data ... have you had any other complaints? Morocco 2013 only - Jul 9 3:00 0 Morocco 2013 only - Aug 8 2:00 1:00 S Morocco 2016 only - Jun 7 3:00 0 Morocco 2016 only - Jul 7 2:00 1:00 S Morocco 2019 only - May 6 3:00 0 - Morocco 2019 only - Jun 5 2:00 1:00 S Morocco 2022 only - May 3 2:00 1:00 S Thanks, - Dennis

3 2

Rule based management vs TZ Coordinator will or voting / fork reason
by Tobias Conradi April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Emails such as the recent ones about ambiguous time zone acronyms can be avoided if the management of the database would be more rule based. It seems there is no rule prohibiting one abbreviation from referring to two offsets within one country at a given point in time. So adding a rule to the Theory file prohibiting this would be one step. The other issue is, that if rules exists, e.g. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory ----- Scope of the tz database ----- The tz database attempts to record the history and predicted future of all computer-based clocks that track civil time. To represent this data, the world is partitioned into regions whose clocks all agree about time stamps that occur after the somewhat-arbitrary cutoff point of the POSIX Epoch (1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC). that they are also enforced. But the TZ Coordinator is sometimes not enforcing them, as the Siberia bug (Asia/Tomsk and Asia/Barnaul patch was provided to the list) shows. Arbitrary application of rules can be a fork reason. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Thanks to David et al for taking this initiative. In respons to the specific questions posed: - would the preference be to preceed the abbreviations with A, or not? I think the 'A' is most apropriate and is in keeping with my understanding of conventioned followed in Australia. It would also be very easy to deal with in the situation where a programer may want to drop the 'A' - historically, how far back should we apply the patch to the abbreviations. I'm in favour of retro-fitting it to the start of Daylight Savings in Australia (sate-based dependancies taken into account). After all its a bit like BC and AD. If you we're wandering around in 200BC you had no idea it was 200BC but today we would not refer to it as anything else (unless you don't use the christian calendar, of course). ________________________________________ Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 21:19:36 -0400 From: David Patte ? <dpatte(a)relativedata.com> Subject: Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] To: tz(a)iana.org Message-ID: <51621B28.4030105(a)relativedata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed A group of us from the list have decided to put together a proposed patch to change the Australian abbreviations to S/D abbreviations. We are hoping, that the maintainers of tz decide to implement the patch in the tz database. In the mean time: - would the preference be to preceed the abbreviations with A, or not? - historically, how far back should we apply the patch to the abbreviations. We will submit the patch to the list for review, and hope it is implemented. But if it is not, we have decided to fork tz and provide a new distribution with the new abbreviations applied. David Patte Relative Data, Inc. _______________________________________________

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Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - I guess it depends on how you cut the cloth: search: legislation "standard time" "daylight saving" site:.gov.au About 25,600 results (0.21 seconds) search: legislation "standard time" "summer time" site:.gov.au About 15,600 results (0.14 seconds) Yes in some cases you will find the following: 'daylight saving time ("summer time")'; that to me supports the notion of "daylight saving" ahead of "summer time". N.B. ".gov.au" searches all state and federal official sites as they all use this domain. (e.g. Federal = just .gov.au, State i.e. Victoria = .vic.gov.au ). I've noticed through my various searches of government websites that whilst the legislative instruments for time may often use the term "Summer Time" (Vic & NSW only) their public facing information sites use the term "Daylight Saving". http://www.nsw.gov.au/daylight-saving http://www.business.vic.gov.au/operating-a-business/how-to-start/trading-ho… http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/policy/daylightsavings http://www.cmd.act.gov.au/communication/holidays http://www.safework.sa.gov.au/show_page.jsp?id=2675 WA, QLD and NT do not have daylight savings but still: http://www.premiers.qld.gov.au/publications/categories/reports/daylight-sav… http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/bills.nsf/BillProgressPopup?open… And yes these are cherry-picked - to the most part these ar all public facing official government pages communicating to the Australian populous about "Daylight Saving" not "Summer Time" - if "Summer Time" was lingua franca, don't you think they (we) would use it? Peter Stagg

1 0

Please remove ambiguous time zone abreviations for Australia [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Robert Greenwood April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Hi all, I know this might sound like a broken record to some, but could we please remove ambiguous time zone abreviations for Australia? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to keep the Australian zones as EST/EST and CST/CST rather than EST/EDT and CST/CDT or AEST/AEDT and ACST/ACDT. Stating that there in no need to change it is nonsensical. It is obvious that using the abbreviation Eastern Standard Time (EST) and Eastern Summer Time (EST) is useless at best. The fact that if you have time zones you need them to be unambiguous is self evident, otherwise why have them. Stating that there are conflicting messages from state and federal government regarding the use of time zones in Australia is misleading. No State or federal government proposes the use of EST/EST and CST/CST as the correct usage of time zone abbreviations. Whilst there is some inconsistency in the usage of AEDT/EDT/EDST within those sites when they explicitly state which time zone should be used it is AEST/AEDT and ACST/ACDT. Finally, the arguments around the usage of Eastern/Central Summer Time (EST/CST) being the status Quo amongst Australians based off the survey conducted in the following linked is flawed: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-October/018364.html searching for EDT or EST by themselves will return a number of things that have no relation to time zones. Similarly, "Eastern Summer Time" and "Eastern Daylight Time" do not necessarily relate to the usage of a particular abbreviation. Searching for the number of hits for the following strings gives a better understanding of the usage of the relevant time zone acronyms in Australia: Google results for au domain: 45,100: "Eastern Standard Time (EST)" 82,400: "Eastern Standard Time (AEST)" 34,900: "Eastern Summer Time (EST)" 117: "Eastern Summer Time (AEST)" 72,100: "Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)" 218,000: "Eastern Daylight Time (AEDT)" 387,000: "Central Standard Time (CST)" 8,030: "Central Standard Time (ACST)" 3: "Central Summer Time (CST)" 3: "Central Summer Time (ACST)" 22,300: "Central Daylight Time (CDT)" 1,460: "Central Daylight Time (ACDT)" Here we are only looking at cases where the time zone abbreviation has been defined. These results show that the abbreviation for Daylight time EDT/AEDT/CDT/ACDT is overwhelmingly greater than the usage of the abbreviation for Summer time EST/AEST/CST/ACST. Furthermore, varients of the search for "Eastern Daylight Saving/s Time (A/EDT)" give another ~3,000 hits and variants of "Eastern Daylight Saving/s Time (A/EDST)" only give ~ 500 results. However, a cursory glance still shows that many of these results are not related to Australia. So this method is still flawed but I cannot think of a better way of searching for the status Quo. Please change the time zone abbreviations in Australia to EST/EDT and CST/CDT or AEST/AEDT and ACST/ACDT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Robert Greenwood | Tsunami Modelling Support National Meteorological and Oceanographic Centre Bureau of Meteorology GPO Box 1289 Melbourne VIC 3001 Level 11, 700 Collins Street, Docklands VIC 3008 Tel: +61 3 9616 8455 | r.greenwood(a)bom.gov.au<mailto:r.greenwood@bom.gov.au> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 1

White House petitioned to end DST
by Arthur David Olson April 4, 2013

April 4, 2013

An electronic petition to "Eliminate the bi-annual time change caused by Daylight Savings [sic] Time" appears at... https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/eliminate-bi-annual-time-change-c… ...and as of this writing has about 6,000 of the 100,000 electronic signatures required for an official White House response. @dashdashado

3 3

How to compute the moment of the next DST change
by Simon Perreault April 4, 2013

April 4, 2013

Dear time experts, I want to write a cron job or similar that activates one week prior to daylight saving time changes. (Or, more generically, one week prior to any time jumps, for any reason, DST or else.) Any pointers? I have looked at the usual places: POSIX time functions, various date/time modules on CPAN, etc. Nothing seems to do that computation. Do I need to parse the tz database myself? Thanks, Simon

14 20

Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect
by Timothy Arceri April 4, 2013

April 4, 2013

Hi All, I’d like to bring this very important issue back up for discussion. I’m going to attempt to address the reason why this change is needed as clearly as possible while addressing the concerns from previous discussions. The issue is with both EST (Tasmania, Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland) and CST (South Australia, Northern Territory) It's well past time the Australian abbreviations were updated to reflect the current terms and usage. Stop the confusion and use the abbreviations recommended by the Australian government to try to avoid this mess. http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time#daylightsaving As others have posted I’m not too concerned about the 'A' but as you will see differentiating between daylight savings times is extremely important when you are using this information in a system that crosses state boundaries and in our case an emergency warning system. Previous Post: --------------------- “I'm not a big fan of change for change's sake; once the database is one way I like to leave it alone. For phrases, the new statistics seem to be quite strong; for whatever reason, Australians seem to be voting with their feet (or fingers) and are adopting American terminology with an "Australian", when the time zone names are spelled out. For abbreviations, it's not clear whether "AEDT" or "EDT" is more common, though I suppose "AEDT" has a slight edge. I'd like to hear more from Australian correspondents on this before thinking about specific changes, though.” - Paul Eggert (26 Aug 2008) I don’t think anyone here cares deeply enough about time zone abbreviations enough to be arguing about change for change’s sake. The fact is the ambiguity of the current abbreviations for time zones is causing real world problems. Previous Post: --------------------- “Alphabetic time zone abbreviations should not be used as unique identifiers for UTC offsets as they are ambiguous in practice. For example, "EST" denotes 5 hours behind UTC in English-speaking North America, but it denotes 10 or 11 hours ahead of UTC in Australia; and French-speaking North Americans prefer "HNE" to "EST".” - Paul Eggert (26 Aug 2008) The issue is not that the identifiers are not unique worldwide. The problem is that they are not unique to bordering states in the same country which run along the same time zone. Most apply daylight savings time, one (Queensland) does not, this is what causes the confusion. Simply using UTC +10 or UTC +11 is not good enough as the general public has no idea what UTC is. Previous Post: --------------------- “I have always assumed that the common abbreviation (EST for standard time, and EST for summer time) was a very deliberate choice, chosen so that if it ever was appropriate to specify a time with an abbreviated zone name, then the time specified would apply year around, which is almost always what is intended” - Robert Elz (5 Jan 2009) If all states that used EST applied daylight saving then this would be convenient but as stated above they do not. The problem can be seen in the delivery example where it would appear an Australian company does delivery’s via time travel. Previous Post: --------------------- “Queensland don't have Daylight Saving Time. New South Wales (across the border from Queensland) do have Daylight Saving Time. Due to the fact that the Olsen data uses EST for both 'Eastern Summer Time' (New South Wales) and 'Eastern Standard Time' (Queensland), a delivery from New South Wales to Queensland can have a pickup time of 10.30am EST and a delivery time of 10.00am EST. We like to be efficient but we're not that good. System users only see the EST and get horribly confused.” - Mick Johnston (26 Aug 2008) So obviously I’m pushing this for my own reason also. We currently use unix based systems to produce tsunami arrival times for the Australian Tsunami Warning System. This information is displayed on a public webpage (and as described above cannot use UTC convention). The issue comes into play when listing arrival times for the east coast of Australia, simply listing all arrival times as EST will obviously cause confusion especially for towns located near the border of NSW/QLD where it would appear to take a tsunami an extra hour to arrive only a couple of kilometres away. Currently we cannot use the default unix time zone commands and must rely on the use of a script to parse the time zone files and produce EST/EDT abbreviations. Obviously the ideal solution is to fix the EST/CST abbreviations once and for all so the all Australians can finally have software that produces time zones abbreviations that can be read by the general public and be used without having to provide added context. Note: In our organisation alone this issue has been brought up independently by multiple areas. Timothy Arceri

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Acronyms - localization - more CLDR failures
by Tobias Conradi April 3, 2013

April 3, 2013

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Derick Rethans <tz(a)derickrethans.nl> wrote: >> I disagree. I think it's natural to want to abbreviate, especially >> with things that are repeated a lot. > > But that has to be done in a localized way anyway. With the default local being English in the IANA time zone database. > In the Netherlands, > nobody uses CEST or CET, but rather MEZT and MET... Sure? https://www.google.com/search?q=cet+central+site%3Anl And CLDR does not even have MEZT and MET for the Dutch language as you claim is exclusively used in the Netherlands: http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/nl.xml <metazone type="Europe_Central"> <long> <generic>Midden-Europese tijd</generic> <standard>Midden-Europese standaardtijd</standard> <daylight>Midden-Europese zomertijd</daylight> </long> <short> <generic>CET</generic> <standard>CET</standard> <daylight>CEST</daylight> </short> </metazone> > but the tz database > doesn't have those either. The localization and naming is done very well > in CLDR. Counter evidence (Failure on Mexico / Tiempo del Pacifico) has been shown. > I have implemented the Date/Time support (utilizing this > database) in PHP, and have given many presentations about the subject. Ever in front of Mexicans showing Spanish localization for Mexico or in front of Dutch speakers showing Dutch localization for Central Europe? > I > always hammer in two things: .... never > rely or use an abbreviation for anything. Why not? CET in the context of Europe always refers to "Central European Time", doesn't it? Same may go for WAT in Africa and West Africa Time. As seen with AxT representing AxST/AxDT in Australia, the acronyms are not all usable in the IANA time zone database, but duplicating information and inventing new IDs like Europe_Central (=CET), America_Pacific (US and CA = America?) as is done in http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml seems like creating a field for having more bugs. Let's check Shanghai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China In mainland China standard time is called Beijing Time (北京时间) https://www.google.com/search?q="北京时间" ~ 57 mio results http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml <timezone type="Asia/Shanghai"> <usesMetazone mzone="China"/> </timezone> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/zh.xml <metazone type="China"> <long> <generic>中国时间</generic> <standard>中国标准时间</standard> <daylight>中国夏令时间</daylight> </long> </metazone> 中国 = China https://www.google.com/search?q="中国时间" ~ 1 mio results https://www.google.com/search?q="中国标准时间" ~ 230 000 results http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/en.xml <metazone type="China"> <long> <generic>China Time</generic> <standard>China Standard Time</standard> <daylight>China Daylight Time</daylight> </long> </metazone> No acronyms at all! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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A failure - CLDR as an IANA time zone database extension for Mexico
by Tobias Conradi April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

Tiempo del Pacifico http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zonas_horarias_de_M%C3%A9xico#Tiempo_del_Pac.C… Tiempo del Pacifico -6/-7 confirmed by http://www.cenam.mx/hora_oficial/ Tiempo del Pacífico = UTC(CNM) – (N+1) Donde N es 6 horas para el horario de invierno y 5 horas para el horario de verano. ==Test 1 - Tijuana== The only Pacific that I can find in http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/es.xml outside the Area/Locations names are in that section: <metazone type="America_Pacific"> <long> <generic>Hora del Pacífico</generic> <standard>Hora estándar del Pacífico</standard> <daylight>Hora de verano del Pacífico</daylight> </long> </metazone> An example zone for America_Pacific from http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml mapZone other="America_Pacific" territory="MX" type="America/Tijuana"/ Look America/Tijuana up in ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab America/Tijuana US Pacific Time - Baja California near US border ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica -8:00 Mexico P%sT 2010 -8:00 US P%sT ==Example 2 - Hermosillo== ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab America/Hermosillo Mountain Standard Time - Sonora -7:00 Mexico M%sT 1999 -7:00 - MST That is "Tiempo del Pacífico", using http://www.cenam.mx/hora_oficial/ Tiempo del Pacífico = UTC(CNM) – (N+1) Donde N es 6 horas para el horario de invierno .... http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml <timezone type="America/Hermosillo"> <usesMetazone to="1970-01-01 08:00" mzone="America_Pacific"/> <usesMetazone from="1970-01-01 08:00" mzone="America_Mountain"/> </timezone> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/es.xml <metazone type="America_Mountain"> <long> <generic>Hora de las Montañas</generic> <standard>Hora estándar de Montaña</standard> <daylight>Hora de verano de Montaña</daylight> </long> </metazone> -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Scheduling - use case for acronyms
by Tobias Conradi April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

Was: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Russ Allbery <rra(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > Humans don't need the abbreviation and don't care. False - as numerous emails and usages demonstrate. > They either schedule > the meeting in local time That might be unknown or ambiguous. > or in the current time in some other time zone Exactly, and that would be communicated how, in a brief manner - as Mark used in "Mondays at 8:00 PT" > (or possibly in UTC) UTC might be unknown at time of scheduling or not decipherable by the receiver. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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