Patched file australasia - time point unique abbreviations for Australia
A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database The new abbreviations are: AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT and currently without "A" prefix: CWST/CWDT - Eucla LHST/LHDT/LHHT - Lord Howe The letters before the final T mean: S - no daylight saving D - one hour daylight saving H - half hour daylight saving Error reports are welcome. Maybe someone can create a patch file. Some may favor using internationally disambiguated abbreviations, since AE might be interpreted as United Arab Emirates, AC as Ascension Island and AW as Aruba. It could also be desired to have constant length. Such internationally time point unique abbreviations could be used by CLDR for localization. The format could be "<country code><location><type>T" and a set for Australia, covering - except for LMTs (LMT=local mean time) - all times in the IANA time zone database could be: AUEST/AUEDT - East AUCST/AUCDT - Central AUWST/AUWDT - West AUUST/AUUDT - Eucla AUHST/AUHDT/AUHHT - Lord Howe -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
I don't suggest to be an authority on this subject but I wish to discuss three points: 1. I don't particular like the 'H' for half-hour daylight saving. Whether it's 30 minutes or 60 minutes, it's still daylight saving so I think only a 'D' is necessary. 2. For Lord Howe's daylight saving time, could we just report AEDT as it's the same time as Sydney, Canberra, etc? 3. Shouldn't we just stick to CW (Central West) instead of naming the zone to do with the town in the zone? Thank you. Kind Regards, David Grosz Sydney, Australia There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. -----Original Message----- From: tz-bounces@iana.org [mailto:tz-bounces@iana.org] On Behalf Of Tobias Conradi Sent: 09 April 2013 06:29 To: tz@iana.org mailing list; David Patte Subject: [tz] Patched file australasia - time point unique abbreviations for Australia A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database The new abbreviations are: AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT and currently without "A" prefix: CWST/CWDT - Eucla LHST/LHDT/LHHT - Lord Howe The letters before the final T mean: S - no daylight saving D - one hour daylight saving H - half hour daylight saving Error reports are welcome. Maybe someone can create a patch file. Some may favor using internationally disambiguated abbreviations, since AE might be interpreted as United Arab Emirates, AC as Ascension Island and AW as Aruba. It could also be desired to have constant length. Such internationally time point unique abbreviations could be used by CLDR for localization. The format could be "<country code><location><type>T" and a set for Australia, covering - except for LMTs (LMT=local mean time) - all times in the IANA time zone database could be: AUEST/AUEDT - East AUCST/AUCDT - Central AUWST/AUWDT - West AUUST/AUUDT - Eucla AUHST/AUHDT/AUHHT - Lord Howe -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
Thanks for the feedback. On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52 PM, David Grosz <david@dlg.com.au> wrote:
I don't suggest to be an authority on this subject but I wish to discuss three points:
1. I don't particular like the 'H' for half-hour daylight saving. Whether it's 30 minutes or 60 minutes, it's still daylight saving so I think only a 'D' is necessary. Imagine one year it is 60 and the following it is 30, then it may help to point people to the fact that the offsets differ. In the southern hemisphere two DST-periods can exist in the same year. There may also be cases where both offsets exist at the same time. So I took a more global approach, trying to define meanings for the letters preceding the final T.
I now made a list at http://anna.info/wiki/IANA_time_zone_database documenting IANA usage. ------------------------ letters preceding final T, sometimes have one of these meanings: D = Daylight Saving S = Standard, sometimes Summer W = War (northamerica file) P = Peace (northamerica file) M = Mean (europe file: MMT # Moscow Mean Time) M = Midsummer (europe file: Moscow - M # Midsummer, also for Spain, France, Germany/SovietZone) two letters preceding final T sometimes have one of these meanings: DS = Double Summer (europe file: MDST # Moscow Double Summer Time, BDST - British Double Summer Time) LM = Local Mean ---------------------------- My proposals would be S = never Summer, only Standard M = never mean, only Midsummer (save 2 hours) L = Local
2. For Lord Howe's daylight saving time, could we just report AEDT as it's the same time as Sydney, Canberra, etc? Oh yes. Will have to look how to do this. That would also eliminate H = Half hour saving. LH specific DST code would be needed for 1981 to 1984 when saving was one hour.
3. Shouldn't we just stick to CW (Central West) instead of naming the zone to do with the town in the zone? So it is done. The other was just a proposal for international format standardization. This won't be in the patch.
-- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
Wow! Everyone argues that the current situation is untenable (and threaten to trigger a fork) because the current abbreviations aren't in common usage. Yet the first proposed update tries to invent a whole new set of heretofore unseen abbreviations? Absurd!
-----Original Message----- From: tz-bounces@iana.org [mailto:tz-bounces@iana.org] On Behalf Of Tobias Conradi Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:07 PM To: David Grosz Cc: tz@iana.org mailing list Subject: Re: [tz] Patched file australasia - time point unique abbreviations for Australia
Thanks for the feedback. On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52 PM, David Grosz <david@dlg.com.au> wrote:
I don't suggest to be an authority on this subject but I wish to discuss three points:
1. I don't particular like the 'H' for half-hour daylight saving. Whether it's 30 minutes or 60 minutes, it's still daylight saving so I think only a 'D' is necessary. Imagine one year it is 60 and the following it is 30, then it may help to point people to the fact that the offsets differ. In the southern hemisphere two DST-periods can exist in the same year. There may also be cases where both offsets exist at the same time. So I took a more global approach, trying to define meanings for the letters preceding the final T.
I now made a list at http://anna.info/wiki/IANA_time_zone_database documenting IANA usage.
------------------------ letters preceding final T, sometimes have one of these meanings: D = Daylight Saving S = Standard, sometimes Summer W = War (northamerica file) P = Peace (northamerica file) M = Mean (europe file: MMT # Moscow Mean Time) M = Midsummer (europe file: Moscow - M # Midsummer, also for Spain, France, Germany/SovietZone)
two letters preceding final T sometimes have one of these meanings: DS = Double Summer (europe file: MDST # Moscow Double Summer Time, BDST - British Double Summer Time) LM = Local Mean ----------------------------
My proposals would be S = never Summer, only Standard M = never mean, only Midsummer (save 2 hours) L = Local
2. For Lord Howe's daylight saving time, could we just report AEDT as it's the same time as Sydney, Canberra, etc? Oh yes. Will have to look how to do this. That would also eliminate H = Half hour saving. LH specific DST code would be needed for 1981 to 1984 when saving was one hour.
3. Shouldn't we just stick to CW (Central West) instead of naming the zone to do with the town in the zone? So it is done. The other was just a proposal for international format standardization. This won't be in the patch.
-- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Paul Goyette <pgoyette@juniper.net> wrote:
Wow! Indeed.
Everyone argues that the current situation is untenable No, the TZ Coordinator and some other people voted to keep the current situation.
(and threaten to trigger a fork) Even less than those that want to change the current situation, did /mention/ a fork..
because the current abbreviations aren't in common usage. No, the reason is because the current set of abbreviations contains EST and CST which during DST are used to refer to two different offsets each and are thus ambiguous.
Yet the first proposed update tries to invent a whole new set of heretofore unseen abbreviations? I don't know what you mean by "first proposed update", since the bug is open since 2006.
The first patch that I can see did not "try to invent a whole new set of heretofore unseen abbreviations", but did indeed introduce a subset with possibly one (LHHT) or two (LHDT) unseen abbreviations: LHST/LHDT/LHHT - Lord Howe A set for which David Grosz made a change proposal and that has been addressed in the very email you just replied to. The relevant parts are kept below.
Absurd! Your comment? I think you just didn't read and write carefully.
-----Original Message----- From: tz-bounces@iana.org [mailto:tz-bounces@iana.org] On Behalf Of Tobias Conradi Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 3:07 PM To: David Grosz Cc: tz@iana.org mailing list Subject: Re: [tz] Patched file australasia - time point unique abbreviations for Australia
Thanks for the feedback. On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52 PM, David Grosz <david@dlg.com.au> wrote:
I don't suggest to be an authority on this subject but I wish to discuss three points: ... 2. For Lord Howe's daylight saving time, could we just report AEDT as it's the same time as Sydney, Canberra, etc? Oh yes. Will have to look how to do this. That would also eliminate H = Half hour saving. LH specific DST code would be needed for 1981 to 1984 when saving was one hour.
-- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:52 PM, David Grosz <david@dlg.com.au> wrote:
2. For Lord Howe's daylight saving time, could we just report AEDT as it's the same time as Sydney, Canberra, etc? Oh yes. Will have to look how to do this. That would also eliminate H = Half hour saving. LH specific DST code would be needed for 1981 to 1984 when saving was one hour.
Some further thoughts on this: There are examples in the IANA time zone database where two areas observe the same offset from UTC for some time of the year, but still use different abbreviations for that time. UTC-07:00 is during US DST observance called PDT in the US Pacific Zone and not MST, just because it is the same offset as in Phoenix. Another implication of using AEDT instead of LHHT is, that one may see a clock set to AEDT and cannot derive what if will be after the end of DST, either AEST of LHST. So I now favor keeping LHHT as it is given in the patch. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
I suggest we take this proposal off the tz iana list, and instead prepare it on its own list. When it is complete, we will return the result to this list.
2013-04-08T20:37 dpatte@relativedata.com>
I suggest we take this proposal off the tz iana list, and instead prepare it on its own list. When it is complete, we will return the result to this list.
That sounds reasonable. A suggestion: you might make a point of trying to set up a download mechanism -- e.g. an http server -- where you can keep logs with timestamps and requestor's IP addresses. Given the rather significant hassle involved in doing anything with the source of the database, the number of distinct downloads can be a measure of the interest in the changes, which would be helpful in a discussion of whether a change merits consideration for inclusion in the master sources, for eventual use by vendors.
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Bennett Todd <bet@rahul.net> wrote:
2013-04-08T20:37 dpatte@relativedata.com>
I suggest we take this proposal off the tz iana list, and instead prepare it on its own list. When it is complete, we will return the result to this list.
That sounds reasonable. I see several reasons to keep it on list. This is not a fork, this is just emailing about a patch that could be applied to the IANA time zone database.
Sending it to the list 1) triggered the three point feedback made by David Grosz 2) gave feedback by Bennett on how to create a diff. ...in a very short time. Regarding David Grosz's proposal to use AEDT for Lord Howe DST - I just don't know how to technically do that. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database
A diff file is published at the same location. Thanks to Bennett Todd for telling me how to do this on the server. diff -u ../ianatzdb/australasia australasia >australasia.patch -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com
Actually, this is not a proposal of the tz AU committee. This is a proposal of Tobias Conradi alone. The tz AU committee decided that the preparation of the proposal would taken be off this list until it is complete. Any other proposals that appear here, including the one below, are not from the committee. On 2013-04-08 16:28, Tobias Conradi wrote:
A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database
The new abbreviations are: AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT
and currently without "A" prefix: CWST/CWDT - Eucla LHST/LHDT/LHHT - Lord Howe
The letters before the final T mean: S - no daylight saving D - one hour daylight saving H - half hour daylight saving
Error reports are welcome. Maybe someone can create a patch file.
Some may favor using internationally disambiguated abbreviations, since AE might be interpreted as United Arab Emirates, AC as Ascension Island and AW as Aruba. It could also be desired to have constant length. Such internationally time point unique abbreviations could be used by CLDR for localization.
The format could be "<country code><location><type>T" and a set for Australia, covering - except for LMTs (LMT=local mean time) - all times in the IANA time zone database could be:
AUEST/AUEDT - East AUCST/AUCDT - Central AUWST/AUWDT - West AUUST/AUUDT - Eucla AUHST/AUHDT/AUHHT - Lord Howe
-- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany
--
First zic error report received - thanks to Peter Stagg from bom.gov.au! ----- $ zic -d zoneinfo australasia "australasia", line 30: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 98: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 130: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 131: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 135: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 136: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 184: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 185: %s in ruleless zone "australasia", line 207: %s in ruleless zone ----- and addressed to my best knowledge http://anna.info/x/wiki/w/index.php?title=ANNA_time_zone_database&diff=83&ol... Tobias On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi@gmail.com> wrote:
A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database
-- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
participants (6)
-
Bennett Todd -
David Grosz -
David Patte ₯ -
Paul Goyette -
Tobias Conradi -
Tobias Conradi