- tz - lists.iana.org

Paul Eggert Confirmed by the IESG as the Time Zone Coordinator
by IETF Chair May 17, 2012

May 17, 2012

Dear TZ Community: I was just informed that the confirmation of Paul Eggert as the Time Zone Coordinator was never announced to this mail list. I am forwarding this note from the IESG Secretary to let everyone know that this happened over a month ago. Sorry for the announcement oversight. On behalf of the IESG, Russ Housley > From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary(a)ietf.org> > Date: April 13, 2012 4:15:36 PM EDT > To: iana(a)iana.org > Cc: iesg(a)ietf.org > Subject: Time Zone Coordinator > > IANA: > > The IESG has approved Paul Eggert (eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu) as the new Time Zone coordinator. > > Best regards, > IESG Secretary

1 0

Re: [tz] Propose to improve where to find rules for "Indian/Kerguelen"
by SM May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

At 23:30 15-05-2012, Mark Davis â wrote: >I firmly agree. Stability is far more important >than fiddling with the identifier names. Yes. >After all, the identifier names are really not >for human consumption; they need translation for >anything but English, and even for English need >some tweaking. And if people want to have >different groupings, that is easy to do. In >CLDR, for example, we group according to the >United Nations M.49 standard for continents and >subcontinents. (Cf >http://unicode.org/repos/cldr-tmp/trunk/diff/supplemental/territory_contain…) Some of the countries listed in Eastern Africa under M.49 are actually in another sub-continent in terms of political sub-continents. Greenland is part of North America and politically within Europe. Cyprus is categorized under Asia. If a rule of the thumb was needed, it could be to pick the continent where people in the region think they are. It avoids the "how many continents are there" question. Regards, -sm

2 1

tz-announce Mailing List
by Kim Davies May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

Dear all, We have established a new complimentary mailing list called tz-announce, which will be used solely for low-volume announcements of new editions of the tzdata or tzcode bundles, and other administration-related communications. This will allow those not interested in the detailed discussion relating to changes to have a method of getting announcements relating only to updates. Subscription information is at http://www.iana.org/time-zones kim

1 1

Morocco Daylight Saving Time
by Mohamed Essedik Najd May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

Good Morning Everyone; I am really glad that I have joined this mailing list. I just wanted to tell you that Morocco passed to DST during the last week end of April and this will remain active till the last weekend of September , with a suspension during Ramadan (Roughly between 20 July, 19 august, [Lunar Month, not sure yet]) If you can think of incorporating these changes during the new version of tzdata, our servers are suffering ! Regards -- *Mohamed Essedik Najd* Bachelor of Science in Computer Science Student Minor in Communication Studies Ifrane's Gtug Manager Google Student Ambassador Freelancer Phone: 00212 (0) 663 311 055 Google+ : http:/gplus.to/kensuke e-mail: es.najd(a)gmail.com website: http://kenix.info <http://blog.kenix.info/>

6 9

Zones names - stability, translation, groupings, CLDR, find-ability
by Tobias Conradi May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

was: [tz] Propose to improve where to find rules for "Indian/Kerguelen" On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Mark Davis ☕ <mark(a)macchiato.com> wrote: > I firmly agree. Stability is far more important than fiddling with the > identifier names. It's is documented practice of the tz project to "fiddle" with the "identifier names", if fiddling refers to changing them, and "identifier names" refers to zone names. Also different defining location are contained in one link in the backward file, e.g. ----- ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/backward ... # @(#)backward 8.11 ... # This file provides links between current names for time zones # and their old names. ... Link Africa/Bamako Africa/Timbuktu ----- Timbuktu is not an old name for the location Bamako. > After all, the identifier names are really not for human consumption; At least the tz project claims to attempt them to be: tzcode2012b/Theory "The time zone rule file naming conventions attempt to strike a balance among the following goals: * Indicate to humans as to where that region is. This simplifes use." > they > need translation for anything but English, America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires does not look as if it would "need" translation "for" Spanish. > And if people want to have > different groupings, that is easy to > do. Easy is relative. Even more "easy" would it be if there would be less desire to have different groupings. To do so the IANA tz project could follow international standards instead of using the current self-invented world partitioning system, e.g. "Australasia" along side "Asia", Bermuda in "Atlantic", Greenland in "America". > In CLDR, for example, we group according to the United Nations M.49 > standard for continents and subcontinents. > (Cf http://unicode.org/repos/cldr-tmp/trunk/diff/supplemental/territory_contain…) At least a try to match zones to an international standard continent model, but the document 1) is not monitorable by robots that respect robots.txt rules, e.g. the one from https://www.changedetection.com. http://unicode.org/robots.txt Disallow: /repos/cldr-tmp/ # dynamic 2) is out of date - zones are missing 3) has a n:m relationship for some cells in "Country (Territory)":"Time Zone" "Country (Territory)": Canary Islands [IC] Ceuta and Melilla [EA] map to one cell in "Time Zone" 4) has a n:m relationship for continent:zone, e.g. all zones matched to the "Subcontinent" element "Caribbean" are matched to three elements from the "Continent" column, namely to Americas 019, Latin America 419, and North America 003. 5) lists these seven "continents" as per the "Continent" column: Africa [002] Americas [019] Asia [142] Europe [150] Latin America [419] North America [003] Oceania [009] which form a set which is not used in any continent-model. Nor does it look very widespread to - have Latin America as continent at all, - omit in a full world model the continent Antarctica and to put the Antarctic Islands into Oceania. 6) contains names in the column headers which are not documented at http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49regin.htm, e.g. "Subcontinent" 7) contains unspecified names in the introduction, e.g. "CLDR supplements this table with the QO code for outlying areas". "QO code"? 8) doesn't specify which set of names is used for zone matching, it says: "As the last column, the timezone IDs for that country are listed." but "Asia/Kolkata" contained in zone.tab is not listed for India, instead "Asia/Calcutta" is which is not listed in zone.tab. Also the document doesn't name the last column close to what it claims to list, e.g. "timezone ID", instead it names the column "Time Zone". > And for programmers, grep or equivalent is fine. This is only true for the subset of programmers for which grep or equivalent is fine. It is not true for the others. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Propose to improve where to find rules for "Indian/Kerguelen"
by Tobias Conradi May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

tzdata2012c/zone.tab contains TF ... Indian/Kerguelen But there is no file "indian" in tzdata2012c as there are "europe", "africa", "asia" for zones named "Europe/...", "Africa/...", "Asia/..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2#TF - French Southern Territories TF is territory of France. But even knowing that Russian Asia/...-zones are contained in "europe" does not help as analogy, since "europe" which hosts FR-France does not contain the string "indian". Propose - to document this in "Theory" or - in "zone.tab" or - to create a file "indian" -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

10 13

Real bug in tzdata: Macquarie
by OvV_HN May 14, 2012

May 14, 2012

tzdata2000c: australasia file: " # Macquarie # permanent occupation (scientific station) since 1948; # sealing and penguin oil station operated 1888/1917 # like Australia/Hobart " antarctica file: " Zone Antarctica/Macquarie 0 - zzz 1911 ..... 11:00 - MIST # Macquarie Island Time " No big deal, since Macquarie now has its own timezone, different from Australia/Hobart, but the Australia comments in the australia file should possibly be updated as well. Oscar van Vlijmen

1 0

Tz-announce list
by James Diebel May 13, 2012

May 13, 2012

Hello, I don't mean to harp on this issue but my previous email on the topic has seemed not to have gotten the attention of the person responsible for maintaining the mailing list. The fact is that through the excellent work of the contributors to this project, the tz database has become an essential component in a wide variety of computer systems. As such there is a large community of developers who need to know when new official versions of the database are released. And while I think that I speak for most of us in saying that we have the utmost respect and appreciation for the process that is used to vet proposed changes to the database, it is simply not sensible for all of us non-contributing users to sift through the various emails on the tz mailing list just so that we don't miss the one email in a thousand that marks a new release. When I last raised this, some people responded that if only certain contributors were banned that the problem would go away. I defer to the list administrators on the question of who should be banned from the list and respectfully disagree that that would solve the actual issue. The tz database is an extremely important project and the wide and timely dissemination of updates to the tz database are in the interest of all who use it, directly or indirectly. It should be a primary goal of the project to create systems for notifying users of the database of updates that are most likely to draw widespread use. Any number of unwanted emails reduces the appeal of staying on a given list. I propose the creation of a new list dedicated to announcements of new versions. The only person allowed to post to that list should be the same person that posts updates to the tz database itself. A single post should be posted to the new announcements list at the same time that an update is released. Such posts should be the only posts on that list. Existing subscribers to this list should be automatically added to the new list. Following that, an email to this list should inform non-contributing users that they may now safely unsubscribe from this list. I do not intend to reopen any discussions of banning any users. I cordially ask that those subscribers to the list that agree with my proposal respond saying so. And I respectfully ask whomever is responsible for maintaining the list to respond with comment. Thank you for your time and attention. Cheers, James Sent from a mobile device

8 7

Two elements in list of assigned ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes not contained in zone.tab
by Tobias Conradi May 12, 2012

May 12, 2012

To aid the discussion on how much extra work it is to map all currently assigned ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes to at least one zone, I did: 1) import a) a list of ISO 3166-1 codes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2#Officially_assigned_code_el… b) the list of ISO 3166-1 codes from tzdata2012c/zone.tab 2) performed the query SELECT DISTINCT(tz_zonelist.iso_3166_1), tz_countrylist.iso_3166_1 FROM tz_countrylist LEFT JOIN tz_zonelist ON tz_countrylist.iso_3166_1= tz_zonelist.iso_3166_1 ORDER BY `tz_zonelist`.`iso_3166_1` ASC 3) obtained the results iso_3166_1 iso_3166_1 NULL HM NULL BV AD AD ... That means the only ISO 3166-1 codes not mapped seem to be HM and BV. Any corrections welcome! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

3 2

Missing entry for Heard Island and MacDonald Islands
by dfg dfg May 12, 2012

May 12, 2012

Hi everyone, I am a developer by trade, so I am not sure if I have stumbled onto some missing data in the tz database. I am accessing the database using PHP (www.php.net) which uses the latest version of the tz database (2012.3). I can use one of the built in functions to lookup timezone information for a given country using its ISO 3166-1 two letter country code (http://www.php.net/manual/en/datetimezone.listidentifiers.php) I am currently building an application and found that Heard Island and MacDonald Islands (ISO code HM) does not exist in the database. After a quick look at the tz data, I was also not able to find anything about Heard Island and MacDonald Island in the files. I believe that there should be an entry for Heard Island and MacDonald Islands (HM) which uses the timezone Australia/Perth. Is it possible that the entry was intentionally excluded for some reason? Or was it just missing from the database? Cheers,John

10 20

Re: [tz] zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
by Tobias Conradi May 11, 2012

May 11, 2012

was "[tz] zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations [OT - English]" I return to on topic. On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis(a)systematicsw.ab.ca> wrote: .... >> C) >> I mean and meant location as in zone.tab >> "Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations" >> >> D) >> I mean and meant location as in Theory file: > ... > Use of location in Theory refers to a specific place > to be used as the time zone name. Not true. tzcode2012b\Theory: ----- Names of time zone rule files ----- Names normally have the form AREA/LOCATION, where AREA is the name of a continent or ocean, and LOCATION is the name of a specific location within that region. ---------------------------------------- I.e. the /name of a specific location/ is to be used as one /part/ of the time zone name. > Use of places in zone.tab comments refers to the general locales where the > same time zone is observed around the specific location used for the time > zone name; And the use of "locations" in zone.tab is the same. Following are some quotes from RFC 5545 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545 Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545#page-28 Failure to include and follow VTIMEZONE definitions in iCalendar objects may lead to inconsistent understanding of the local time at any given location. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545#page-64 Many locations adjust their Standard Time forward or backward by one hour, in order to accommodate seasonal changes in number of daylight hours, often referred to as Daylight Saving Time. Some locations adjust their time by a fraction of an hour. ... This database contains current and historical time zone information for a wide variety of locations around the globe http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545#section-3.8.1.7 Property Name: LOCATION Purpose: This property defines the intended venue for the activity defined by a calendar component. The IETF GEOPRIV site https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/charter/ uses "location" and not "place". Some related ISO standards: a) ISO 19112:2003 Geographic information -- Spatial referencing by geographic identifiers 4.4 location identifiable geographic place found via http://www.iso.org/obp/ui/ b) http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_ics/catalogue_detail_ics.htm… ISO 6709:2008 Standard representation of geographic point location by coordinates c) http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu… ISO 19133:2005 Geographic information -- Location-based services -- Tracking and navigation Annex: Background information for when the inconsistencies first occurred in the tzdb: tzdata1996l/zone.tab did only have "most locations" and no "most places" America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), New Brunswick, Labrador & PEI But did have America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973 tzdata1998a/zone.tab maybe earlier, contains "most places" once: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), NB, W Labrador, E Quebec & PEI And twelve times "most locations". -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
by Tobias Conradi May 11, 2012

May 11, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973 Proposed: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - locations that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - locations that did not observe DST 1967-1973 Reason: Harmonize. Theory uses "locations" (9x) more often than "places" (2x) zone.tab uses "place" only thrice, namely within the comments field of the three above zone for Canada. zone.tab uses "location" more than 20x. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

3 3

Fwd: zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
by Tobias Conradi May 10, 2012

May 10, 2012

A comment by Steffen Daode Nurpmeso. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Steffen Daode Nurpmeso <sdaoden(a)googlemail.com> Date: Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [tz] zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations To: Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: | On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Haxby <john.haxby(a)oracle.com> wrote: | > On 10/05/12 05:06, Tobias Conradi wrote: | > No. | No what? | > A native English speaker (like me) would not swap "place" for | I think, if "places" is unambiguous and precise, Tobias Conradi, a | non-native English speaker, wouldn't say "locales" instead of "places" | But me - a non-native English speaker - I would try to avoid choosing Domingos de la gran Puta. M.f.G. --steffen Forza Figa! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

2 1

Russia tidbits
by OvV_HN May 10, 2012

May 10, 2012

Regarding: [tz] Uzbekistan - insufficient location desciption Tobias Conradi tobias.conradi at gmail.com Wed May 9 15:48:29 UTC 2012 I would like to propose to ignore this email for the moment. Tobias is trying to give more details for the east / west division of Uzbekistan. Looking at the TZ asia file I get the impression that we are talking about the situation in the olden days. Furthermore I get the impression that Tobias is trying to overlay the current divisions of Uzbekistan to the situation before 1930, when there were 2 distinct timezones. If you look at old maps, you will notice that for instance the Samarkand region cannot be described in terms of provinces of 2012. Reference: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%… (Administrative divisions of Uzbekistan, in Russian) In my opinion the comments in the TZ asia file (Samarkand Time, Tashkent Time) can be regarded as sufficient. Provisionally you may call this West, East, as in zone.tab. So, don't change no nothing! Regarding: Sakha Republic and the Newsiberian Islands. I haven't given a reference yet, here it is: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Sakha_Republic_Munici… In this map we see that the Newsiberian Islands (Novosibirskije Ostrova) are part of the Bulunskij Ulus, numbered 6 in the map. This is no definite proof, but good enough for me. Regarding: Transliteration of Russian names. Please don't Americanize too much. The letter "y" is overused. In that case the reconstruction back into Cyrillic is somewhat difficult. ISO 9 System B, or what I used (Chemical Abstracts = British Standard BS 2979-1958) is better suited for 2-way transliterations. Which I prefer. But if TZ prefers the American way: be my guest. But try to be a bit consistent, which would involve erasing all my Russian transliterations (haha!). Oscar van Vlijmen

1 0

Housekeeping
by David Braverman May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Yesterday I asserted that Paul Eggert was confirmed as the list coordinator about four weeks ago. I've since gone back through the archive and didn't find an formal announcement. Can someone at IANA or in the IESG send official word? Also, I'm not sure of the procedure or criteria, if any, for banning someone from the list, but I would suggest taking a look to see if the person in question had ever gotten banned from other communities, and under what circumstances. For example, if someone had been banned multiple times from another online community for incivility and sock puppetry, and currently has an indefinite ban from that group, that would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? David Braverman Inner Drive Technology http://www.inner-drive.com/Demo/Timezones.aspx

5 4

zone.tab comments - most, most places -> most locations
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI Proposed: Asia/Urumqi Tibet & Xinjiang - most locations America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - most locations, PEI Reason: Harmonize with Australia/Hobart Tasmania - most locations Australia/Sydney New South Wales - most locations Australia/Brisbane Queensland - most locations Australia/Perth Western Australia - most locations America/Goose_Bay Atlantic Time - Labrador - most locations America/Montreal Eastern Time - Quebec - most locations America/Toronto Eastern Time - Ontario - most locations America/Iqaluit Eastern Time - east Nunavut - most locations America/Regina Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations America/Mexico_City Central Time - most locations America/Detroit Eastern Time - Michigan - most locations -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Potentially a libel/ criminal offence on the tz mailing list WAS: Housekeeping
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 4:05 PM, gunther Vermeir <gunther.vermeir(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I assume you refer to tobias conradi's several wiki/media/pedia/etc bans? If your claim cannot be proven it may constitute libel, which is a criminal offence in several jurisdictions. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

3 2

Proposed changes: Sakha/Kuril shifts in 2011
by Arthur David Olson May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

I've attached proposed changes for 2011 Sakha/Kuril time zone shifts; they also appear below (with tab characters mangled). --ado diff -r -c new/europe newer/europe *** new/europe 2012-05-05 09:40:53.091364400 -0400 --- newer/europe 2012-05-09 10:32:28.819887000 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.43 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.44 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. *************** *** 2044,2049 **** --- 2044,2113 ---- # Russia + # From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-09-15): + # Based on last Russian Government Decree # 725 on August 31, 2011 + # (Government document + # <a href="http://www.government.ru/gov/results/16355/print/"> + # http://www.government.ru/gov/results/16355/print/ + # </a> + # in Russian) + # there are few corrections have to be made for some Russian time zones... + # All updated Russian Time Zones were placed in table and translated to English + # by WorldTimeZone.com at the link below: + # <a href="http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_russia36.htm"> + # http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_russia36.htm + # </a> + + # From Sanjeev Gupta (2011-09-27): + # Scans of [Decree #23 of January 8, 1992] are available at: + # <a href="http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966"> + # http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966 + # They are in Cyrillic letters (presumably Russian). + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Regarding the instant when clocks in time-zone-shifting parts of Russia + # changed in September 2011: + # + # One source is + # < a href="http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/> + # http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ + # </a> + # which, according to translate.google.com, begins "Decree of August 31, + # 2011 No 725" and contains no other dates or "effective date" information. + # + # Another source is + # <a href="http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html"> + # http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html + # </a> + # which, according to translate.google.com, begins "Resolution of the + # Government of the Russian Federation on August 31, 2011 N 725" and also + # contains "Date first official publication: September 6, 2011 Posted on: + # in the 'RG' - Federal Issue number 5573 September 6, 2011" but which + # does not contain any "effective date" information. + # + # Another source is + # <a href=" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7"> + # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7 + # </a> + # which, in note 8, contains "Resolution #725 of August 31, 2011... + # Effective as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication" + # but which does not contain any reference to September 6, 2011. + # + # The Wikipedia article refers to + # <a href=" http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=118896"> + # http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=118896 + # </a> + # which seems to copy the text of the government.ru page. + # + # Tobias Conradi combines Wikipedia's + # "as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication" + # with www.rg.ru's "Date of first official publication: September 6, 2011" to get + # September 13, 2011 as the cutover date (unusually, a Tuesday, as Tobias Conradi notes). + # + # None of the sources indicates a time of day for changing clocks. + # + # Go with 2011-09-13 0:00s. + # From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22): # Except for Moscow after 1919-07-01, I invented the time zone abbreviations. # Moscow time zone abbreviations after 1919-07-01, and Moscow rules after 1991, *************** *** 2330,2343 **** # [parts of] Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya). # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): ! # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, Tomponskij, Ust'-Majskij, ! # Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok 8:47:44 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 11:00 - VLAT # # Sakhalinskaya oblast'. # The Zone name should be Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but that's too long. --- 2394,2419 ---- # [parts of] Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya). # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): ! # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, ... Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok 8:47:44 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 11:00 - VLAT + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Tomponskij and Ust'-Majskij switched from Vladivostok time to Yakutsk time + # in 2011. + + Zone Asia/Khandyga 9:02:13 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 + 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time + 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 11:00 - VLAT 2011 Sep 13 0:00s # Decree 725? + 10:00 - YAKT + # # Sakhalinskaya oblast'. # The Zone name should be Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but that's too long. *************** *** 2356,2368 **** # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, ! # Nizhnekolymskij, Ojmyakonskij, Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan 10:03:12 - LMT 1924 May 2 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 12:00 - MAGT # # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Kamchatskaya oblast', Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug. --- 2432,2456 ---- # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, ! # Nizhnekolymskij, ... Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan 10:03:12 - LMT 1924 May 2 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 12:00 - MAGT + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Ojmyakonskij and the Kuril Islands switched from + # Magadan time to Vladivostok time in 2011 + Zone Asia/Ust-Nera 9:32:54 - LMT 1924 May 2 + 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time + 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 12:00 - MAGT 2011 Sep 13 0:00s # Decree 725? + 11:00 - VLAT + # # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Kamchatskaya oblast', Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug. diff -r -c new/zone.tab newer/zone.tab *** new/zone.tab 2012-05-05 09:40:50.719228800 -0400 --- newer/zone.tab 2012-05-09 10:29:45.352537200 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.57 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.58 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 344,351 **** --- 344,353 ---- RU +5601+09250 Asia/Krasnoyarsk Moscow+04 - Yenisei River RU +5216+10420 Asia/Irkutsk Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal RU +6200+12940 Asia/Yakutsk Moscow+06 - Lena River + RU +623923+1353314 Asia/Khandyga Moscow+06 - Tomponsky, Ust-Maysky RU +4310+13156 Asia/Vladivostok Moscow+07 - Amur River RU +4658+14242 Asia/Sakhalin Moscow+07 - Sakhalin Island + RU +643337+1431336 Asia/Ust-Nera Moscow+07 - Oymyakonsky RU +5934+15048 Asia/Magadan Moscow+08 - Magadan RU +5301+15839 Asia/Kamchatka Moscow+08 - Kamchatka RU +6445+17729 Asia/Anadyr Moscow+08 - Bering Sea

1 0

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: >> And it is privacy violation to send unsolicited private emails. > > We disagree OK. > I shall not engage your further given your position. Thank you. > This is a private message I expect not to see forwarded to the list. I will start not forwarding your private message to me, after you stop sending me private messages. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Below an opinion of Steffen Daode Nurpmeso, unfortunately in German, which is not the main language for the tz mailing list. 2012/5/9 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso <sdaoden(a)googlemail.com>: > Es gibt viele Leute, die Fehler melden, auch bittere, > und die trotzdem niemals irgendeine Rückmeldung bekommen. > Auf deine momentane Art erreicht man jedenfalls auf gar keinen > Fall irgendetwas, erst recht nichts gutes. > Und wieso glaube ich, dass du das genau weißt. > Danke für dein Verständnis. > > --steffen > Forza Figa! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Fwd: Time Zone List
by Marshall Eubanks May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Here is your answer Marshall ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Russ Housley <housley(a)vigilsec.com> Date: Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Time Zone List To: Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks(a)gmail.com> Done quite a while ago. On May 9, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote: > Do you know if the IESG confirmed Paul Eggert as admin and expert of > the time zone database mailing list. > > Regards > Marshall

1 0

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:52 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: > I just wanted to add my voice to that of others. > You are out of line. > Please be more polite and respectful or you are likely to be ignored, > and certainly your concerns will be marginalized. My concern is having a correct as possible tzdb. If my concerns will be marginalized, it would be "marginalizing" the goal of having bugs fixed. I never have respect towards bugs, I am happy to make them better visible by posting them on the list. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

5 6

Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

was: [tz] proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.oz.au> wrote: > Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 04:11:55 +0200 > From: Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> > Message-ID: <CAAGevbVsY5SEs=3NGyau7T_aLW+W0cV18tofP3d_aDfjTw1M0w(a)mail.gmail.com> > > | Putting something into the wrong timezone is by definition having a > | bug in the TIMEZONE database. > > No, once again, it is not, or not in any way that is important. There was no claim of importance, the claim only was that there is a bug. > | > If the comments in the zone file are wrong, > | > we should certainly fix them sometime, > | Now you change your opinion? > > No, not at all, we fix erroneous comments, but erroneous comments are > not a bug, as they don't affect the results, Of course they do. If one selects timezone Asia/Baku based on a comment that this is the tz zone for Chicago then one would get false offsets and false transitions. > they're just a minor > insignificant error. Not to me, and maybe not for the people trying to find the Chicago zone data. > Like any error, such things should get fixed, > but like other irrelevant errors, fixing them isn't urgent. Not for me. > | Any prove that all the view at > | http://stats.grok.se/en/201204/List_of_tz_database_time_zones > | are from list members? > > List members can do whatever they like, and some of the people on > this list (and associated with this project) certainly do attempt to > make maps of timezones in one way or another. That's all fine, but > it is not this project. I didn't claim that. Your claim was " ...comments .... have no real importance and are generally only ever even seen by the people on this list (no-one else is really very likely to read through all of that stuff -...)" You provide no proof that the views of the Wikipedia page in question came only from list members. In absence of this, I think your claim is false. > | >(no-one else is really very likely to > | > read through all of that stuff - zic certainly doesn't care.) > | I read the comments before I was a list member. > > Sure, there are people who look at this stuff, but not very many > compared with the number of people who use the real product of this > project - which is the zone database. Can you tell a way of how a user determines the correct zone for a random location in Indiana, selecting between America/Indiana/Indianapolis America/Indiana/Vincennes America/Indiana/Winamac America/Indiana/Marengo America/Indiana/Petersburg America/Indiana/Vevay America/Kentucky/Louisville America/New York without reading the comments? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

7 14

zone.tab comment for Europe/Volgograd
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea tzdata2012c/europe # Astrakhanskaya oblast', Kirovskaya oblast', Saratovskaya oblast', # Volgogradskaya oblast'. ... Zone Europe/Volgograd Propose: zone.tab Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Astrakhan, Kirov, Saratov, Volgograd Reasoning: "Astrakhan, Kirov, Saratov, Volgograd" refers to federal subjects (1st level country subdivisions), while "Caspian Sea" to a lake only. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia The federal subjects of Russia that are bordering the Caspian Sea are 05 Dagestan 08 Kalmykia 20 Chechnya 30 Astrakhan Dagestan, Kalmykia, Chechnya according to the europe file are located in Zone Europe/Moscow. Only Astrakhan is contained in both groups (Caspian Sea neigbor, Zone Europe/Volgograd member). So Caspian Sea in the comment column is not only imprecise but actually misleading. The comment for Europe/Moscow in zone.tab is Moscow+00 - west Russia a comment that does not list Dagestan, Kalmykia, Chechnya. Therefore a reader could not deduct that these three, out of four Caspian Sea neighbors among the federal subjects, don't belong to "Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea". -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

zone.tab comment for Asia/Irkutsk
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c\zone.tab "Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal" tzdata2012c\europe # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Respublika Buryatiya, Irkutskaya oblast', # Ust'-Ordynskij Buryatskij avtonomnyj okrug. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ust-Orda_Buryat_Okrug "Ust-Orda Buryatia, is an administrative division of Irkutsk Oblast" " It was a federal subject of Russia (an autonomous okrug of Irkutsk Oblast) from 1993 to January 1, 2008, when it merged with Irkutsk Oblast (it also had autonomous okrug status from September 26, 1937 to 1993" Propose: zone.tab "Moscow+05 - Irkutsk, Buryatia" europe Add a notice of merge. Reasoning: "Irkutsk, Buryatia" refers to federal subjects (1st level country subdivisions), while "Lake Baikal" to a lake only. But the zone covers the area of the two federal subjects. Do it similar to the 2nd level country subdivision comments for these US zones: America/Kentucky/Monticello Eastern Time - Kentucky - Wayne County America/Indiana/Indianapolis Eastern Time - Indiana - most locations America/Indiana/Vincennes Eastern Time - Indiana - Daviess, Dubois, Knox & Martin Counties America/Indiana/Winamac Eastern Time - Indiana - Pulaski County America/Indiana/Marengo Eastern Time - Indiana - Crawford County America/Indiana/Petersburg Eastern Time - Indiana - Pike County America/Indiana/Vevay Eastern Time - Indiana - Switzerland County -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0