zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973 Proposed: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - locations that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - locations that did not observe DST 1967-1973 Reason: Harmonize. Theory uses "locations" (9x) more often than "places" (2x) zone.tab uses "place" only thrice, namely within the comments field of the three above zone for Canada. zone.tab uses "location" more than 20x. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
On 10/05/12 05:06, Tobias Conradi wrote:
Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973
Proposed: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - locations that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - locations that did not observe DST 1967-1973
Reason: Harmonize.
Theory uses "locations" (9x) more often than "places" (2x)
zone.tab uses "place" only thrice, namely within the comments field of the three above zone for Canada.
zone.tab uses "location" more than 20x.
No. A native English speaker (like me) would not swap "place" for "location" here unless you meant specific points within those regions. You might say "locales" instead of "places" but that would be odd as that meaning of locale is confusing if you're anywhere near anything to do with computers. One could argue that there is a case for simplifying sentences and language, but that would generally avoid choosing shorter, simpler words (place) over longer ones (location). I don't see any need for this though. jch
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Haxby <john.haxby@oracle.com> wrote:
On 10/05/12 05:06, Tobias Conradi wrote:
Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973
Proposed: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - locations that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - locations that did not observe DST 1967-1973
Reason: Harmonize.
Theory uses "locations" (9x) more often than "places" (2x)
zone.tab uses "place" only thrice, namely within the comments field of the three above zone for Canada.
zone.tab uses "location" more than 20x.
No. No what?
A native English speaker (like me) would not swap "place" for "location" here unless you meant specific points within those regions. A) It is undefined in your sentence what you mean by "specific point", so I cannot tell whether I meant that.
Maybe you who claims to be a native English speaker can explain the difference between a) "location" as in "Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations" and b) "place" as in "Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI" to those readers on the mailing list that don't see one, but would like to do so in case there is one? B) 1) Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press http://www.wordreference.com/definition/location a particular place or position http://www.wordreference.com/definition/place a particular position or point in space; a location 2) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/location - a place of settlement, activity, or residence - a place or situation occupied - a tract of land of designated situation or limits - Can be confused: local, locale, locality, location . http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/place Synonyms 1. location, locale, locality, site. 3) "locations" in my proposal was meant as plural. C) I mean and meant location as in zone.tab "Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations" D) I mean and meant location as in Theory file: 1) labels the region with a notable location 2) Clock transitions ... are recorded for each such location 3) Names normally have the form AREA/LOCATION, where AREA is the name of a continent or ocean, and LOCATION is the name of a specific location within that region. 4) general rules used for choosing location names 5) Include at least one location per time zone rule set 6) One such location is enough. 7) don't bother to include more than one location 8) Keep locations compact. Use cities or small islands,... locations into different time zones. 9) Use the most populous among locations in a country's time zone maybe 10) The file `zone.tab' lists the geographical locations 11) Use UTC ... for locations while uninhabited.
You might say "locales" instead of "places" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/locale a place or locality, especially with reference to events or circumstances connected with it.
I think, if "places" is unambiguous and precise, Tobias Conradi, a non-native English speaker, wouldn't say "locales" instead of "places" in technical documentation when referring to places/locations on the planet earth.
but that would be odd as that meaning of locale is confusing if you're anywhere near anything to do with computers. Indeed.
One could argue that there is a case for simplifying sentences and language, Agreed.
but that would generally avoid choosing shorter, simpler words (place) over longer ones (location). Disagreeing. Me, a non-native English speaker, I would contest that simplifying sentences and language would generally avoid shorter words (place) over longer ones (location).
But me - a non-native English speaker - I would try to avoid choosing different words for same meanings in a technical specification or documentation. I would try to be consistent and to use same words for same meanings. I would also try to define words. For the tzdb project I would try to define "location" in the Theory file. /Everything else - beside word length - being equal/ I would support replacing longer words with shorter words. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/
On 2012-05-10 09:20, Tobias Conradi wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Haxby<john.haxby@oracle.com> wrote:
On 10/05/12 05:06, Tobias Conradi wrote:
Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario& Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973
Proposed: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - locations that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario& Quebec - locations that did not observe DST 1967-1973
Reason: Harmonize.
Theory uses "locations" (9x) more often than "places" (2x)
zone.tab uses "place" only thrice, namely within the comments field of the three above zone for Canada.
zone.tab uses "location" more than 20x.
No. No what?
A native English speaker (like me) would not swap "place" for "location" here unless you meant specific points within those regions. A) It is undefined in your sentence what you mean by "specific point", so I cannot tell whether I meant that.
Maybe you who claims to be a native English speaker can explain the difference between a) "location" as in "Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations" and b) "place" as in "Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI" to those readers on the mailing list that don't see one, but would like to do so in case there is one?
B) 1) Concise Oxford English Dictionary ... 2) http://dictionary.reference.com ... 3) "locations" in my proposal was meant as plural.
English distinguishes between the dictionary meanings or denotations of words and the connotations derived from context and usage (which differs from use, in that it implies the psychological overtones and undertones resulting from idiom and literary tradition). Other languages are often described as logical when contrasted to English.
C) I mean and meant location as in zone.tab "Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations"
D) I mean and meant location as in Theory file: ...
Use of location in Theory refers to a specific place to be used as the time zone name. Use of places in zone.tab comments refers to the general locales where the same time zone is observed around the specific location used for the time zone name; locations should probably be replaced by places.
You might say "locales" instead of "places" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/locale a place or locality, especially with reference to events or circumstances connected with it.
I think, if "places" is unambiguous and precise, Tobias Conradi, a non-native English speaker, wouldn't say "locales" instead of "places" in technical documentation when referring to places/locations on the planet earth.
Time zones loosely define geographical locales in a political entity where the same time has been observed since some epoch, and are attributes of cultural locales: it is a political expression of a cultural artifact.
but that would be odd as that meaning of locale is confusing if you're anywhere near anything to do with computers. Indeed.
One could argue that there is a case for simplifying sentences and language, Agreed.
but that would generally avoid choosing shorter, simpler words (place) over longer ones (location). Disagreeing. Me, a non-native English speaker, I would contest that simplifying sentences and language would generally avoid shorter words (place) over longer ones (location).
But me - a non-native English speaker - I would try to avoid choosing different words for same meanings in a technical specification or documentation. I would try to be consistent and to use same words for same meanings. I would also try to define words. For the tzdb project I would try to define "location" in the Theory file.
/Everything else - beside word length - being equal/ I would support replacing longer words with shorter words.
In any language, the meanings of different words, which may have the same (simple) dictionary definition, are rarely the same (compare to a full reference dictionary or thesaurus), simplification is not a simple task, and word length is unrelated to accuracy of expression. Other languages have different words which are translated into the same English word e.g. French verbs savoir and connaitre become know in English: French speakers would have difficulty with English speakers unable to grasp the difference, and would never replace connaitre by savoir in any context! For examples from German literature see http://www.mta.ca/~cwelch/7words.pdf
participants (3)
-
Brian Inglis -
John Haxby -
Tobias Conradi