Hello, I don't mean to harp on this issue but my previous email on the topic has seemed not to have gotten the attention of the person responsible for maintaining the mailing list. The fact is that through the excellent work of the contributors to this project, the tz database has become an essential component in a wide variety of computer systems. As such there is a large community of developers who need to know when new official versions of the database are released. And while I think that I speak for most of us in saying that we have the utmost respect and appreciation for the process that is used to vet proposed changes to the database, it is simply not sensible for all of us non-contributing users to sift through the various emails on the tz mailing list just so that we don't miss the one email in a thousand that marks a new release. When I last raised this, some people responded that if only certain contributors were banned that the problem would go away. I defer to the list administrators on the question of who should be banned from the list and respectfully disagree that that would solve the actual issue. The tz database is an extremely important project and the wide and timely dissemination of updates to the tz database are in the interest of all who use it, directly or indirectly. It should be a primary goal of the project to create systems for notifying users of the database of updates that are most likely to draw widespread use. Any number of unwanted emails reduces the appeal of staying on a given list. I propose the creation of a new list dedicated to announcements of new versions. The only person allowed to post to that list should be the same person that posts updates to the tz database itself. A single post should be posted to the new announcements list at the same time that an update is released. Such posts should be the only posts on that list. Existing subscribers to this list should be automatically added to the new list. Following that, an email to this list should inform non-contributing users that they may now safely unsubscribe from this list. I do not intend to reopen any discussions of banning any users. I cordially ask that those subscribers to the list that agree with my proposal respond saying so. And I respectfully ask whomever is responsible for maintaining the list to respond with comment. Thank you for your time and attention. Cheers, James Sent from a mobile device
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:14 PM, James Diebel <james@streamlex.com> wrote:
I propose the creation of a new list dedicated to announcements of new versions. The only person allowed to post to that list should be the same person that posts updates to the tz database itself. A single post should be posted to the new announcements list at the same time that an update is released. Such posts should be the only posts on that list. Existing subscribers to this list should be automatically added to the new list. Following that, an email to this list should inform non-contributing users that they may now safely unsubscribe from this list.
Sounds good to me, though perhaps the announcements should always be sent to both lists, such that users from this list don't have to be automatically subscribed to yet another list. Cheers, Dirkjan
+1 on creation of an -announce list. Cheers! -- David Hancock -----Original Message----- From: James Diebel <james@streamlex.com> Date: Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:14 PM To: "tz@iana.org" <tz@iana.org> Subject: [tz] Tz-announce list
I propose the creation of a new list dedicated to announcements of new versions. The only person allowed to post to that list should be the same person that posts updates to the tz database itself. A single post should be posted to the new announcements list at the same time that an update is released. Such posts should be the only posts on that list. Existing subscribers to this list should be automatically added to the new list. Following that, an email to this list should inform non-contributing users that they may now safely unsubscribe from this list.
I agree entirely, and nicely put. Aside from a distinct announce list, the same need could be met other ways, instead or in addition. A stylized Subject on the announcement postings, or other attribute, documented as an official service that people could commit to code. A release announcement file that's uploaded along with the files that marks the upload as a committed new release, rather than a transient state. That could be as simple as a symlink that always points to the current release. An RSS feed of release announcements. Others, I'm sure. But whatever the mechanism, it'd be nice to have a channel that didn't require an alert human to monitor the development list.
+1 to the tz-announce proposal. It's common in most projects, and I find it as useful. I agree with Dirkjan that they should go to both ml. As for having a special keyword in the subject, it can be having just the word "released". On 12/05/12 22:51, Bennett Todd wrote:
I agree entirely, and nicely put.
Aside from a distinct announce list, the same need could be met other ways, instead or in addition.
It can be added, but I don't think they are as good as a replacement, because these are pull methods, while a tz-announce is a push method. You get notified when there's a new release, instead of needing to check repeatedly when does a release happen.
A stylized Subject on the announcement postings, or other attribute, documented as an official service that people could commit to code.
Still, if they were to filter everything but announcements, it'd be preferable to only deliver them (tz-announce).
A release announcement file that's uploaded along with the files that marks the upload as a committed new release, rather than a transient state. That could be as simple as a symlink that always points to the current release.
This is good for rules creating packages of the last release, but doesn't announce them.
An RSS feed of release announcements.
It's fine, but a pull method. Regards
Would people please stop "+1" -ing? It generates wasted list traffic, and in the absence of speech against the idea, it's pretty pointless, other than to accellerate the annoyance factor for everyone else, which is clearly too high already. James Diebel <james@streamlex.com> wrote on Sat, 12 May 2012 at 13:14:55 -0700 in <6D9CCE5C-52A8-48F0-A9EF-616A9D80531A@streamlex.com>:
I don't mean to harp on this issue but my previous email on the topic has seemed not to have gotten the attention of the person responsible for maintaining the mailing list.
I'm afraid it certainly seems like harping to me, both in isolation and especially in concert with all the +1 emails. Please stop. There's a good reason it hasn't "gotten the attention" -- the list maintainership responsibilities are in transition, because (allegedly) they follow the TZ coordinator responsibilities and those are in transition. Paul has been nominated and approved by the IESG but we have no indication that formal transfer has taken place, and even if it has, Paul should be given some time to settle in. In the meantime, it seems easy enough. Either follow the recommendation of David Zuelke and use his Yahoo pipe http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.info?_id=48419402cafd8f112ff12c58d27a986f which will doubtless by sufficient for quite some time, switch the digest mode (standard mailman options), or produce your own local customized filter or system. postcript: I woudl offer that it seems to me inadvisible to push for list structural changes on the list -- I don't think it is apparent that metadiscussion is in scope. Email the list maintainer privately, please, and offer your suggestion and only bring it up on-list if there is not a satisfactory response in a reasonable time period. That way the rest of us can focus on what we're really here for. --jhawk@mit.edu John Hawkinson
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 11:53 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk@mit.edu> wrote:
There's a good reason it hasn't "gotten the attention" -- the list maintainership responsibilities are in transition, because (allegedly) they follow the TZ coordinator responsibilities and those are in transition. Paul has been nominated and approved by the IESG but we have no indication that formal transfer has taken place, and even if it has, Paul should be given some time to settle in.
Really? I thought that was confirmed earlier this month: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017766.html Kevin -- Kevin Lyda Dublin, Ireland US Citizen overseas? We can vote. Register now: http://www.votefromabroad.org/
On May 12, 2012, at 16:14, James Diebel wrote:
A single post should be posted to the new announcements list at the same time that an update is released. Such posts should be the only posts on that list. Existing subscribers to this list should be automatically added to the new list.
There's a simpler way: make tz@ a member of tz-announce@. So any and all posts sent to 'announce' show up here as well. The Coordinator then only has to send one message. Any follow up discussion on the announcement will also occur automatically here.
participants (8)
-
Bennett Todd -
David Magda -
Dirkjan Ochtman -
Hancock, David (DHANCOCK) -
James Diebel -
John Hawkinson -
Kevin Lyda -
Ángel González