- tz - lists.iana.org

zdump issues
by Thom Hehl Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

I'm trying to write a C++ wrapper for the timezone database. I have run ZIC to convert the data to binary files and know where these are. Now I'm having a look at zdump because, when I'm done, I want to convert UTC to a time zone of my choice. Problem is when I run zdump it never seems to return anything different. E.g., thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Anchorage America/Anchorage Mon Oct 24 19:46:24 2011 GMT thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Chicago America/Chicago Mon Oct 24 19:46:34 2011 GMT thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Kentucky/Louiville America/Kentucky/Louiville Mon Oct 24 19:48:21 2011 GMT My clock is current set to Eastern Daylight. Thanks.

3 2

Re: [tz] Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Yes, it would be nice to use the binaries, but I have to provide a complete solution that can, upon someone retrieving and extracting the tz data, update the db with a click of a button on a Windows computer. So I have to compile the data myself. If the format of the data files changes, that's fine...I'll just update the process. It doesn't seem too difficult, though. Reading some of the messages in the archive has helped me to better understand the process. I basically have to create UTC transition dates for every year covered by an individual rule. I create a date/time from the rule, adjust it by the GMTOFF of the zone (accounting for u indicators,) and then adjust it by any daylight saving time that might be in effect from a previous rule (accounting for s indicators.) That's not so bad. I'm still trying to figure out a slick way of handling max, though. On Mon Oct 24 05:23:23 2011"Alois Treindl" <alois(a)astro.ch> wrote: > > Personally, I would not recommend of writing yet another tz compiler. Reading and processing the binary files created by zic seems to me a much cleaner and more reliable approach.

3 2

Ukraine and DST
by Denys Gavrysh Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Hello. On September 20, 2011 the deputies of the Ukrainian parliament (Verkhovna Rada) agreed to abolish the transfer clock to winter time. But on October 19 that decision was finally canceled. Here is an official document (in Ukrainian): http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 I wrote a patch for latest tzdata archive that returns daylight saving time for Ukraine (in attachment). We very need it.

2 1

Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

I was wondering if there exists a high-level description of the process of converting a wall-time from one zone into UTC (and vice-versa) that describes the conversion using the text based zone information (the rules and zones) rather than referencing the binary files. If conversions simply cant be done that way because they require additional data thats produced by zic, then Id like to know that too. Im attempting an implementation of the TZ database in a system called Lotus Notes, which uses a BASIC like language for programming called LotusScript. So I pretty much have to build everything from scratch...which is fine. Im going through the archives and Ive already found good info there from the recent "Time zone confusion and implementation hints" thread back in July (dont know why Yves Goergen didnt want to install Cygwin...5 minutes after reading that message I had Cygwin installed and was reviewing those tzinfo files!) But Im still looking for (what seems to be) basic information, such as can the tz code convert 2011-11-06 1:30 AM America/New_York? That date seems to gets different results based on which converter I use online, as it would appear that you have to know the DST status in order to get the DST status to convert to UTC. I know nothing about Unix or the c/c++/java languages so I know have a steep learning curve if I want to understand the existing tz code...but Im hoping that if I can understand the zone conversion process then I can write the necessary code. Ive got the nearly 5300 lines of rules, zones, leaps, and links stored in a Notes db for easier manipulation, and I can take a zone UNTIL or a rule and year and produce a date from it. So its a start. Thanks. Willy Lorenzo

5 4

Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Todd Glassey Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

So I need to properly introduce myself to explain why I said what I said on the list. I am a professional timekeeper meaning that I and my team operate clocks which end users rely on. My team runs 10 of the NIST public access timebase systems and is expanding the availability of UTC to include PTP and other evidence-control tools as add-ons for traceable time. That said - the TZ data is used in virtually all commercial and electronic document/instrument processing systems operational today. The problem is that the Time Zone data itself (while created through a standards process) has largely been managed as an ad-hoc offering and this was accepted everywhere because the party and hosting entity for this were the US Government NIH and Dr. Olson. But with the good Dr.s retirement there is a need to formalize this process and expand its controls so that the data remains both properly managed and available to all. So the question is how to do that, and I have pushed back that this effort is much more important and needs to be managed outside an IETF process because of the lack of control the IETF has designed into its framework. This specific project is one which needs a level of oversight that the IETF process doesnt put in place for changes and content updates to the DB. What needs to happen I believe is that this effort should define a process wherein any legal authority can request a IANA update to the data base and have that processed in a fixed timeframe outside of any continued IETF review. This is not an excuse to make a new IETF WG to control the world... its about letting the world operate in a manner which doesnt impose the IETF's judgement or political opinions on anyone either. That said my proposal is to morph the current I-D by adding an inline update process to the CONTENT RECORDS of the DB and a NEW RECORD Addition Policy and Practice through IANA and not the IETF. In closing - My apologies for antagonizing anyone, and I would point out that since we do about 300M timesettings per day - all tied to TZ's I would retort I may be one of the only people here who is NOT a troll... Todd -- Todd S. Glassey - CISM CIFI CTO Certichron Inc This message contains information which may be confidential and/or privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not read, use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) thereto without retaining any copies. Further we have a formal OPT OUT Policy posted on our website pertaining to the use of any Email Addresses gleaned or taken from any source, web, mailing lists, previous customer lists etc. In all instances we choose to formally OPT OUT and this notice constitutes formal disclosure that you may not collect, buy or sell or provide access to this email address or any pertaining to our DNS MX Record Publication License posted on the web at http://www-wp.certichron.com/?page_id=3947.

14 23

Fwd: Re: Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Random832 Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Why doesn't the "reply-to" header get set on these messages? I sent this directly by mistake: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tz] Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue. Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:11:53 -0400 From: Random832 <random832(a)fastmail.us> To: Peter Ilieve <peter(a)aldie.co.uk> On 10/20/2011 1:39 PM, Peter Ilieve wrote: > Assuming you managed to set up this mechanism where a legal authority > can make requests, how many requests do you think would get made? > My guess would be hardly any, maybe even zero. Based on my reading of > this list over many years, lots of governments can barely be trusted > to tell their own citizens what will happen to the clocks. They > probably won't be interested in contacting a bunch of geeks like > us, even if they knew we existed. It may be that these governments are thinking that this is all still done by people changing clocks by hand, so it won't inconvenience anyone if they just announce on the saturday evening news that people should change or not change their clocks that sunday morning. So maybe it would be a good idea to prepare a form letter that can be sent to any agency which enacts a timezone change without any advance notice, explaining the issues involved, and in general the fact that computer systems have to be updated to know the rules, and that some lead time is necessary for this.

5 4

Proposed time zone package changes (Bahia Brazil, Pridnestrovie, Ukraine)
by Robert Elz Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

Here are proposed changes to the time zone package. The change to Bahia Brazil has already occurred, and the others are due to occur within 10 days (the weekend after next) so updates have become urgent (yet again)... The executive summary europe Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (Europe/Tiraspol) has followed much of Russia, and will retain "summer time" year round (that is no time transition is due Oct 30). This reintroduces a zone that had earlier been removed, and so removes the "backward" link. On the other hand, Ukraine have decided not to follow, so the change which had been made in preparation for that in tzdata2011k is now reverted, and there will be a transition on Oct 30. southamerica The change to Bahia, Brazil, that introduced summer time (following the regular Brazil rules, so commencing this year on Oct 16 - last SUnday) that was mooted before tzdata2011l was released, but withdrawn becase the change was not yet official, has now been ratified. Aside from that, the other files that were changed in tzdata2011l but where the sccs id was not altered, have all been given new version numbers (southamerica has gone up by two, one for the 2011l changes, and another for this set). Sorry, still no signatures (I have not had time to do anything about that) but I will distribute hash values as I did for tzdata2011l. Please test these changes (particularly those of you using 64 bit time_t systems). I plan to release the next update (with thiese changes) on Monday October 24. kre --- asia 2011/10/08 02:27:38 1.3 +++ asia 2011/10/15 03:17:13 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# @(#)asia 8.68 +# @(#)asia 8.69 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- australasia 2011/10/08 02:28:28 1.3 +++ australasia 2011/10/15 03:18:03 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)australasia 8.27 +# @(#)australasia 8.28 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- backward 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ backward 2011/10/20 02:20:30 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)backward 8.9 +# @(#)backward 8.10 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -67,7 +67,6 @@ Link Africa/Cairo Egypt Link Europe/Dublin Eire Link Europe/London Europe/Belfast -Link Europe/Chisinau Europe/Tiraspol Link Europe/London GB Link Europe/London GB-Eire Link Etc/GMT GMT+0 --- europe 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ europe 2011/10/20 02:30:32 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)europe 8.38 +# @(#)europe 8.39 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -1655,6 +1655,29 @@ # But [two people] separately reported via # Jesper Norgaard that as of 2001-01-24 Tiraspol was like Chisinau. # The Tiraspol entry has therefore been removed for now. +# +# From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-10-17): +# Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as +# "Pridnestrovie") has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition +# to the Winter Time). +# +# News (in Russian): +# <a href="http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi…"> +# http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi… +# </a> +# +# <a href="http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html"> +# http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html +# </a> +# +# The substance of this change (reinstatement of the Tiraspol entry) +# is from a patch from Petr Machata (2011-11-17) +# +# From Tim Parenti (2011-10-19) +# In addition, being situated at +4651+2938 would give Tiraspola +# a pre-1880 LMT offset of 1:58:32. +# +# (which agrees with the earlier entry that had been removed) # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Chisinau 1:55:20 - LMT 1880 @@ -1671,6 +1694,21 @@ # See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. 2:00 EU EE%sT +Zone Europe/Tiraspol 1:58:32 - LMT 1880 + 1:55 - CMT 1918 Feb 15 # Chisinau MT + 1:44:24 - BMT 1931 Jul 24 # Bucharest MT + 2:00 Romania EE%sT 1940 Aug 15 + 2:00 1:00 EEST 1941 Jul 17 + 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 24 + 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 + 3:00 - MSK 1990 May 6 + 2:00 - EET 1991 + 2:00 Russia EE%sT 1992 + 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1997 +# See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. + 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u + 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + # Monaco # Shanks & Pottenger give 0:09:20 for Paris Mean Time; go with Howse's # more precise 0:09:21. @@ -2651,6 +2689,28 @@ # <a href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/"> # http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/ # </a> +# +# From Philip Pizzey (2011-10-18): +# Today my Ukrainian colleagues have informed me that the +# Ukrainian parliament have decided that they will go to winter +# time this year after all. +# +# From Udo Schwedt (2011-10-18): +# As far as I understand, the recent change to the Ukranian time zone +# (Europe/Kiev) to introduce permanent daylight saving time (similar +# to Russia) was reverted today: +# +# <a href="http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=…"> +# http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=… +# </a> +# +# Also reported by Alexander Bokovoy (2011-10-18) who also noted: +# The law documents themselves are at +# +# <a href="http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484"> +# http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 +# </a> + # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # Most of Ukraine since 1970 has been like Kiev. @@ -2665,8 +2725,7 @@ 3:00 - MSK 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 - EET 1992 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 - 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u - 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + 2:00 EU EE%sT # Ruthenia used CET 1990/1991. # "Uzhhorod" is the transliteration of the Ukrainian name, but # "Uzhgorod" is more common in English. --- northamerica 2011/10/07 06:36:36 1.2 +++ northamerica 2011/10/15 03:17:28 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)northamerica 8.49 +# @(#)northamerica 8.50 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- southamerica 2011/10/08 02:30:24 1.3 +++ southamerica 2011/10/15 03:46:37 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)southamerica 8.50 +# @(#)southamerica 8.52 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -818,6 +818,19 @@ # oficial agency about time in Brazil, and she confirmed that the old rule is # still in force. +# From Guilherme Bernardes Rodrigues (2011-10-14) +# It's official, the President signed a decree that includes Bahia in summer +# time. +# [ and in a second message (same day): ] +# I found the decree. +# +# DECRETO No- 7.584, DE 13 DE OUTUBRO DE 2011 +# Link : +# <a href="http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina…"> +# http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina… +# </a> + + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV20466.htm">20,466</a> (1931-10-01) # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV21896.htm">21,896</a> (1932-01-10) @@ -1054,10 +1067,8 @@ # of America/Salvador. Zone America/Bahia -2:34:04 - LMT 1914 -3:00 Brazil BR%sT 2003 Sep 24 - -3:00 - BRT -# as noted above, not yet in operation. -# -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 -# -3:00 Brazil BR%sT + -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 + -3:00 Brazil BR%sT # # Goias (GO), Distrito Federal (DF), Minas Gerais (MG), # Espirito Santo (ES), Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Sao Paulo (SP), Parana (PR),

3 2

Chicago on Eastern Time in 1936
by Garrett Wollman Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

There are no comments in the "northamerica" file explaining Chicago's brief stint on EST. I ran across a small article in /Broadcasting/ magazine (dated November 11, 1935), which read thus: Chicago Going EST CHICAGO'S radio goes on a time parity with New York March 1, 1936, when by order of the City Council it will push its clocks forward an hour and function on Eastern Standard Time the year round. The ruling of the council, however, does not provide for pushing the clocks forward still another hour when New York and many other cities go on Daylight Savings Time during the summer. Nevertheless, the parity of time between Chicago and the East is expected to ease radio scheduling considerably, especially of programs keyed to networks from Chicago. -GAWollman

1 0

database proposal
by Steven Abner Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

First, thank you Mr. Elz. I wish to propose an amendment to your standards. This proposal is purely from a programmer's perspective, future growth, the need for speed. In your work called "Theory", subsection "Names of time zone rule files", I'd like to propose a limitation to the general rules. To the first rule "Use only valid POSIX", I submit the amendment of "The total file name length should not exceed 30 characters." This addition should allow for a buffer of 32 characters, the 30 mentioned, the POSIX ':' for use as a file signal, and the terminating NUL character. Currently you have 573 zones, all but 1 are within these bounds. This is for future naming, and in hopes that access to data can be sped up, searching, copying, etc., by a compiler or programmer to make use of things like vector units and 4-64bit moves for copying, rather than calling another routine to copy. For full disclosure, the one offending zone is "America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia" in the "backwards" file, so hopefully this does not give too much weight to a "negative" verdict on this proposal. On a different matter, I'd like to throw into the pot as you called it, the suggestion of "LJT" for a generic zone abbreviation. This would stand for "Local Jurisdictional Time". It would seemed to me, more likely to be welcomed amongst the locales that it would apply to. It has no connotation of "Standard" or "Savings". The LMT has meaning, the ZZZ is or was used for indication of the founding of a locale. It hopefully reinforces the right and ability of an independent locale, either by law or practice, to their own means of time representation. Steve

1 0

Pridnestrovie (Tiraspol) is reconsidering the abolition of seasonal time
by World Time Zone Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Pridnestrovie (Tiraspol) is reconsidering the abolition of seasonal time in 2011 after neighboring Ukraine reversed its decision to abolish DST and Moldova planned to continue its seasonal clock change. News (in Russian) http://www.kommersant.md/node/5202 or http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_tiraspol02.html or some translation by Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com: "Transnistrian deputies will once again return to the issue of seasonal time change at the next plenary session of the Pridnestrovie parliament. A deputy chairman of the Committee on Social Policy, Valery Chervonooky expressed the hope that Transnistria (Pridnestrovie), Moldova and Ukraine would have the same time zone" Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com Guttenberg, New Jersey

1 0

Tiraspol (Pridnestrovie)- has abolished seasonal clock change
by World Time Zone Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as "Pridnestrovie")- city Tiraspol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition to the Winter Time). News (in Russian) http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na- zimnee-vremya-30954.html or http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html translation by Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com: "The president of the unrecognized republic (Pridenstrove), Igor Smirnov signed a decree to abolish transition to the winter time and vice versa." P.S. Moldova (Chisinau), which considers Transnistria its own territory, goes back to the winter time on the last Sunday of October. Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com Guttenberg, New Jersey

6 8

Newbie
by Thom Hehl Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

OK, I run my timezone database under windows, so, after a couple of tries, I got the code I downloaded from the TZ database site to compile under windows. Now what? I looked at the HTML files and there's no readme or anything else that looks like documentation on how to use it.

5 4

Re: [tz] Elliot - I want to talk about the TZ project ASAP...
by Todd Glassey Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:51:45 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Please see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04. > > Eliot > SNIP > Thanks - great start Elliot - let me make some devils advocate commentary. 0) We need two mailing lists - a general convo list and a second list for formal announcements as to changes in the DB itself. The reasons are that most of the relying parties who will subscribe to list #2 *(the DB Changes List) dont want anything else to do with this process., They are relying parties who need to be noticed when there are formal changes in the list only. A) we should tie the TZ use statement in the opening to to Log Correlation and tools like UNIX XDAS or the MITRE CEE groups work. It also needs to be noticed in the I-D that TZ's are a function of International Metrological Law and Treaty and are managed by the legal holders of those rights for the jurisdictions represented. B) The TZ information needs to be tied to some Authority Context so that each TZ is tied to a National or Judicial Context in some form. That means each TZ is functionally tied to a Originating Authority - in the US for instance this would be 15 USC 260 which then further stratifies the time data to a set of Metrological Authorities within that Legal Instance of Time. That means a TZ Management Actor for each TZ published must be established. I suggest adding a STAKEHOLDER ROLE to the Submission Practice and that the Stakeholder may amend the content of the publication-list with respect to the TZ(s) they hold control over here, and that a simple notice from the Stakeholder to the DB Coordinator should trigger both an update to the list and a public-service notice to a new TZ Announce List which is specific to TZ Changes and availability Statements from the DB Coordinator/DBA C) The Data Base is actually a legal publication and the IETF has nothing to say about its presentation of that content. Further the IETF failing to properly make changes creates both civil and potentially criminal liabilities in a number of situations that OLSON was immune from under the 11th Amendment Protections accorded to the NIH. To sidestep that liability there are a number of things we can do with the Stakeholder Role suggested in B too - we should talk more about this and who actually owns this data.Likewise, since this is a legal document that is being published with is a distillation of a number of metrological and trade treaties the IETF or ANY part of the IANA stand in the way of a legal jurisdiction making immediate changes to that list, its international law. Sop the Draft needs work there. Todd -- Todd S. Glassey - CISM CIFI CTO Certichron Inc This message contains information which may be confidential and/or privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not read, use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) thereto without retaining any copies. Further we have a formal OPT OUT Policy posted on our website pertaining to the use of any Email Addresses gleaned or taken from any source, web, mailing lists, previous customer lists etc. In all instances we choose to formally OPT OUT and this notice constitutes formal disclosure that you may not collect, buy or sell or provide access to this email address or any pertaining to our DNS MX Record Publication License posted on the web at http://www-wp.certichron.com/?page_id=3947.

8 10

Defense fund
by Thom Hehl Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Please forgive me if this is inappropriate to discuss on this list, but I was wondering if a defense fund has been set up for the guys defending against the Astrolabe lawsuit. I started the Protect the timezone database facebook group and would be happy to help fundraise. If inappropriate, please reply to me off list. Thanks.

2 1

Attempting to get speedier tz updates
by Robert Elz Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:16:11 +0100 From: "Clive D.W. Feather" <clive(a)davros.org> Message-ID: <20111020131611.GD27386(a)davros.org> In a message that started out on another thread I don't want to get involved with ... | While it would be nice if they sent us updates, we can't force them. That's true, but I kind of suspect, that we have never even asked. I had been wondering about that, and considering doming something about it, for months now - and just possibly "considering" is all it would ever have been, however, perhaps we should attempt a little better than that. Attempting to contact everyone responsible, directly, would be a lot of work, just identifying the parties involved, so I thought it might be possible to take an easier route, and just ask the UN to do the contact work for us - that is, we write to the UN Secretary General, and ask that the message be redistributed to all member states - the message being a request that they ask whoever (whatever agency) is responsible for actually implementing time issues, to please inform us of any planned or actual changes - and perhaps, if they're able, any historical data they have. If people think this is a reasonable idea then I will implement it. Note: I don't much care if you expect it to actually succeed - if it fails, it has cost almost nothing, but if anyone can see an actual negative possibility from this, then I'd like to hear about it. Also, while I'm happy to draft (and circulate to the list before sending) the letter involved, it would probably be nice from the UN's viewpoint, if we could send in both English and French (and anything else? I doubt we need to consider attempting all 6 official languages.) That I cannot do, so I'd need assistance with translation into French (and anything else suggested as a good idea) - and that assistance needs to be from a fluent (native) speaker I believe, not someone who learned the language in school. Any volunteers? (It won't be very long.) kre

6 5

temporary timezone database home ...
by Robert Elz Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

First, I am assuming this copy of the list is actually functioning, (and I've just received jhawk's message which demonstrates that it is) I don't believe it has been used for actual messages before that one, but as ado has indicated that the list at elsie has been (for now anyway) terminated - and given the plan was to migrate from it eventually anyway, may never return, we can but hope this version of the list is functional. Some of you who receive this message may have been removed from the elsie version of the list recently, or altered your subscription details - if that applies to you, use the iana.org message sent on the 1st of this month to all subscribers to their list for instructions on how to modify or delete your subscription. Don't send requests to me (or anyone else on the list) there's nothing I (or we) can do about it - and most certainly, do not send requests to the list itself asking to be removed. Unfortunately, there are probably a few people who were added to the elsie list since it was cloned at iana.org but there's nothing much we can do about that - if anyone is contacted by anyone who believes they should be on the list, but is no longer receiving messages, direct them to the iana website for list subscriptions. Next, while elsie's ftp server is shut down, munnari.oz.au isn't, and the tz database & code remains available from here. Further, I will not respond to requests from (almost) anyone to cease making those files available (including Arthur and Paul - but by all means feel free to try if you need to to satisfy some obligation to cease making the data available - I'll ignore you, but you will at least have used every reasonable effort...) Second, regardless of this, the world's governments continue to adjust their view of their local timezones & summer time adjustments, so we need to continue updating the database (at least). There are several updates that will be needed soon. For now, until someone else volunteers, I'm prepared to make the updates, in much the same way that Arthur did, and then make new releases available from munnari's ftp server. I suspect that it is unlikely that either Arthur or Paul will be able to assist much with this in the coming months, so I'm hoping that others will assist where possible. For now, I'm aware of changes needed for Armenia, Fiji, Bolivia, Brazil, and of course, the changes that (might be) needed for Russia. If there's anything else I missed, please let me know. Unfortunately, I don't have the sccs (or is it rcs or something these days) master files, so I won't be able to do quite the same job that Arthur did, but I can keep all versions so they can be checked into a version control system later. It would be good if a few others, especially people in jurisdictions that tend not to simply bow down to US court rulings, would keep copies of the code and data, and make them publicly available via ftp or http (this is not of huge public interest, the resources needed to provide this service should not be very noticeable). All I know of the lawsuit is what jhawk's message indicated - eventually I assume we'll find out what trademark or patent that someone believes is being infringed (a little hard to believe either, but who knows...) The URL's of the current versions of the files from munnari.oz.au are ... ftp://munnari.oz.au/pub/tzcode2011i.tar.gz ftp://munnari.oz.au/pub/tzdata2011k.tar.gz and of course, the historical files (most versions that were ever previously released) are in ftp://munnari.oz.au/pub/oldtz/ kre

33 43

Re: [tz] Robert Elz as TZ coordinator
by David Braverman Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

I hate to throw a spanner in the works, and I do think KRE is right for the job, but are we all certain he even wants this greatness thrust upon him?

4 3

Re: [tz] Robert Elz as TZ coordinator
by SM Oct. 20, 2011

Oct. 20, 2011

At 14:54 20-10-2011, M3 Sweatt wrote: >Is there an outline or summary of what the requirements and actions >of the coordinator would be going forward? draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04 discusses about the TZ coordinator. >Generally no objections, just curious if the Coordinator role and >responsibility has been memorialized somewhere. Although the draft (it will be published as a RFC) discusses the role and responsibilities, it is more about the TZ community using its best judgement to keep up the good work that was started by Ado. Robert commented on the current work ( http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008093.html ). I think that the message at http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/007993.html summaries the tone to expect from the TZ community. Regards, -sm

2 1

time zone suggestions
by Steven Abner Oct. 20, 2011

Oct. 20, 2011

Hi Not sure if I should contact the organization or Zefram. But it looks like the new management might be open to some queries and/or options from outside sources. This information pertains to northamerica, and one was accepted by you already, where Mr. Olson implied it was correct, so you may have to alter the information I am supplying. They are suggestions only, and were done to aid parsing of the tz data, different parser with more strict rules for converting. Feel free to ignore, or pick out what you feel relevant, as only the Sitka change was of any real importance. The Anchorage one was to keep the northamerica rules from needing the translation unit of the europe file rules, which I altered to follow the majority of your data files. This is one of the patches I use to set your data to my data. Sorry to intrude, Steve

2 1

List Administration Note (How to unsubscribe)
by Kim Davies Oct. 20, 2011

Oct. 20, 2011

Hi all, For those who no longer wish to be subscribed to the Time Zone mailing list, emailing all the subscribers of this list of your desire is not the recommended method. Please visit https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/tz where you can unsubscribe or change your subscription options. Alternatively, if you can email _from your subscribed address_ to tz-request(a)iana.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". If your address does not show as on the list, you'll need to identify under which email address you originally subscribed from. If you need help with this, please forward an email you received from this list to tz-owner(a)iana.org, but preserve all the mail headers, so we can try and trace where it was sent. Thanks, kim

1 0

Ukraine to keep winter time after all
by Philip.Pizzey＠sita.aero Oct. 18, 2011

Oct. 18, 2011

Hi there, I've been following the recent discussions on this list about the timezone changes in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. Today my Ukrainian colleagues have informed me that the Ukrainian parliament have decided that they will go to winter time this year after all. Please see the following link: http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=… > > The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Resolution "On changing the Order of Computation of Time in the Territory of Ukraine" No. 3755-VI of September 20, 2011 was declared invalid. > Cheers, Phil.

2 1

Short notice: Ukraine invalidates law to introduce permanent DST
by udo.schwedt＠obi.de Oct. 18, 2011

Oct. 18, 2011

As far as I understand, the recent change to the Ukranian time zone (Europe/Kiev) to introduce permanent daylight saving time (similar to Russia) was reverted today: http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=… AFAICS, this means that the current Kiev time zone (UTC/GMT +3 hours) will be changed back to former Ukrainian standard time (UTC/GMT +2 hours) by the end of this month (October 2011). Thus the original DST rules (that were changed with tzinfo2011k) will have to be restored. I don't know how such near-term situations are usually handled (I'm fairly new to this list), but I'd like to bring this to your attention and propose a change at short notice. Thanks, -- Udo -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender.

1 0

Astrolabe lawsuit update
by David Braverman Oct. 17, 2011

Oct. 17, 2011

Astrolabe, Inc., sent out a press release overnight: http://www.thedailyparker.com/CommentView,guid,bded3439-6019-4389-93a3-29af… And I responded, if anyone's interested: http://www.thedailyparker.com/PermaLink,guid,103d30f9-4d58-4b72-9f5a-8db45e… I hope this isn't out of scope for the list. I figured people might be interested in the latest developments in the case. David Braverman Weather Now<http://www.wx-now.com/>

7 8

Proposed time zone package changes (Fiji, Bahia Brazil, West Bank(Hebron))
by Robert Elz Oct. 17, 2011

Oct. 17, 2011

Here are proposed changes to the time zone package. I'm releasing these changes now as the change to Bahia, Brazil, is due to take effect next Sunday week (8 or 9 days away, or something), so getting at least that change distributed now is urgent. The executive summary asia Changed the end date for Summer Time for this year (2011) to match reality reported by Steffen Thorsen. northamerica Corrected typo in (ancient) LMT zone offset as detected by Zefram. southamerica Resume Summer Time in Bahia, Brazil (following the standard Brazil algorithm, which causes Summer time to start Oct 16 this year, which matches the report.) australasia Adjust the end date for Summer time in Fiji in 2012 (Feb) as reported by Steffen Thorsen. That Bolivia will not start Summer time this year seems fortuitous as apparently we had no idea that it had been intended. Armenia's plan to abolish Summer Time can wait until it has ceased being a plan and become reality. As with Arthur's last update, any changes needed for Russia are deferred, mostly because I haven't been able to fathom what those changes need to be... (I wasn't paying that much attention to all the messages about this, as I didn't expect any of that to directly affect me - if someone who knows what is happening could send a proposed diff, that would help). One proposal that Arthur, Paul, and I had kicked around a little (very little) off list that might affect things there, was to abandon attempts to invent new time zone abbreviations for places that don't have one already in use, and instead just insert LST as a place holder (Local Standard/Summer Time). Anywhere that cares what the abbreviation is can have their preferred abbreviation, as always, other places, where we had been inventing strings just because we thought it was a good idea, will get LST instead. There was no plan to go back and change all the currently established invented abbreviations though, or not unless there's a request to remove a particularly poor choice, if we have any of those. And yes, we know that LST already exists with another interpretation (which can remain), we don't care. None of this is in this update, so feel free to express opinions on the advisability of adopting this policy for future new zones. The tzdata diff follows. I plan on releasing this next Monday (October 10) if there are no detected problems (and will almost certainly release whatever part of this is correct then). Note that I life in a timezone far east of Arthur, his Monday updates got to me on my Tuesday, so my Monday update will get to many of you on your Sunday.... kre *** asia 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 --- asia 2011/10/07 06:54:28 *************** *** 2269,2275 **** 2:00 Palestine EE%sT 2011 Apr 1 12:01 2:00 1:00 EEST 2011 Aug 1 2:00 - EET 2011 Aug 30 ! 2:00 1:00 EEST 2011 Oct 3 3:00 2:00 - EET # Paracel Is --- 2269,2275 ---- 2:00 Palestine EE%sT 2011 Apr 1 12:01 2:00 1:00 EEST 2011 Aug 1 2:00 - EET 2011 Aug 30 ! 2:00 1:00 EEST 2011 Sep 30 3:00 2:00 - EET # Paracel Is *** australasia 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 --- australasia 2011/10/07 06:21:11 *************** *** 303,308 **** --- 303,310 ---- Rule Fiji 2010 only - Mar lastSun 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - + Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S + Rule Fiji 2012 only - Feb 26 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time *** northamerica 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 --- northamerica 2011/10/07 06:13:35 *************** *** 483,489 **** -8:00 US P%sT 1983 Oct 30 2:00 -9:00 US Y%sT 1983 Nov 30 -9:00 US AK%sT ! Zone America/Sitka -14:58:47 - LMT 1867 Oct 18 -9:01:13 - LMT 1900 Aug 20 12:00 -8:00 - PST 1942 -8:00 US P%sT 1946 --- 483,489 ---- -8:00 US P%sT 1983 Oct 30 2:00 -9:00 US Y%sT 1983 Nov 30 -9:00 US AK%sT ! Zone America/Sitka 14:58:47 - LMT 1867 Oct 18 -9:01:13 - LMT 1900 Aug 20 12:00 -8:00 - PST 1942 -8:00 US P%sT 1946 *** southamerica 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 --- southamerica 2011/10/07 06:36:20 *************** *** 1034,1040 **** # of America/Salvador. Zone America/Bahia -2:34:04 - LMT 1914 -3:00 Brazil BR%sT 2003 Sep 24 ! -3:00 - BRT # # Goias (GO), Distrito Federal (DF), Minas Gerais (MG), # Espirito Santo (ES), Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Sao Paulo (SP), Parana (PR), --- 1034,1041 ---- # of America/Salvador. Zone America/Bahia -2:34:04 - LMT 1914 -3:00 Brazil BR%sT 2003 Sep 24 ! -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 ! -3:00 Brazil BR%sT # # Goias (GO), Distrito Federal (DF), Minas Gerais (MG), # Espirito Santo (ES), Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Sao Paulo (SP), Parana (PR),

17 29

Irish time...
by Kevin Lyda Oct. 17, 2011

Oct. 17, 2011

The first entry in the europe zone file for Ireland is as follows: Rule GB-Eire 1916 only - May 21 2:00s 1:00 BST However I don't think it's correct. I'm not sure how far back we want to go, but apparently from 1880 up until October, 1916, Dublin was 25 minutes off from London. When the clocks were set back in October 1916, they were set back 35 minutes - which would seem to cast doubt on the second line for GB-Eire: Rule GB-Eire 1916 only - Oct 1 2:00s 0 GMT And 25 minutes, as noted in the file was an oversimplification. A web page with more detail is here (I've cc'd Dave who might have more info): http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/dunsink.html And apparently there were places in Ireland observing the Dunsink based "Dublin Mean Time" up to the 1940s: http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0079/D.0079.194003050027.html In addition, Belfast seems to have had yet another timezone. How did the British actually manage to build an empire anyway? Kevin -- Kevin Lyda Dublin, Ireland US Citizen overseas? We can vote. Register now: http://www.votefromabroad.org/

6 7