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Auto Reply: Re: Rule Russia incorrect
by gunther.vermeir＠oracle.com Oct. 31, 2011

Oct. 31, 2011

Hello, I'm back on monday 14 November and will have no access to email until then. I will reply when i'm back. Please contact the duty manager if needed. regards, Gunther

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Re: [tz] Sydney,Australia (and other places) DST indication (or lack thereof)
by Bill Tiede Oct. 31, 2011

Oct. 31, 2011

For WorldTimeServer.com at least, we used two government sources for our time zone abbreviations for Australia: 1. Australia.gov.au at http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time 2. Australian Government Bureau of Meteorology at http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/daysavtm.shtml There has been plenty of discussion in the past about how official these abbreviations are or how widely accepted within Australia these are, so keep in mind I'm not trying to reopen debate or anything, just responding to the question about where we got the idea to call it what we have. Best Regards, Bill Tiede www.ChaosSoftware.com; www.WorldTimeServer.com Original message From: Willy(a)willylorenzo.com To: tz(a)iana.org; Dated: 10/30/2011 10:12:51 AM Subject: Re: [tz] Sydney,Australia (and other places) DST indication (or lack thereof) I've been unable to download the full mail archive to search it for things like this. However, I just now found gmane.org so I'm now able to search the archive. I see that there has been a lot of talk about the labels, but I think my question is different, as I'm not asking if it should be changed. I accept EST, and that's that. I mean...isn't this set by the laws of the area in question? Nothing we can do about that...right? I was wondering more about the usage of the string EDT by the websites, which, to me at least, appears wrong. It made me wonder how dateandtime.com and worldtimeserver.com are arriving at this label...if, in addition to the tz database, they're maybe including cultural usage considerations into the results. I'm hoping that Steffen Thorsen may respond and explain the result. The EDT usage piqued my interest because of a similar situation in the US with postal addressing. There are cities who are referenced by a common name instead of their official name...and the better commercial ZIP code databases will include a list of alternate names for cities. So I was wondering if this was a similar situation of there being an alternate common usage, and possibly a list of common labels alternates somewhere. on Sun Oct 30 08:44:55 2011"Robert Elz" kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU wrote: > | So I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is some unwritten accepted > | practice of referring to Australian daylight saving time as EDT > > As Philip said, there has been a lot of disscussion of this topic over > the years - check the list archives - and I doubt there's much to be > gained by doing it all again. Referring to summer time as "daylight > saving time" is relatively common in normal usages, though it is actually > defined as "summer time" in most of the Aust jurisdictions (the states are > in charge, not the Commonwealth govt) - but actual use of the string "EDT" > is (or was, the last time I looked) relatively rare. > > kre > >

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Re: [tz] Sydney, Australia (and other places) DST indication (or lack thereof)
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 30, 2011

Oct. 30, 2011

I've been unable to download the full mail archive to search it for things like this. However, I just now found gmane.org so I'm now able to search the archive. I see that there has been a lot of talk about the labels, but I think my question is different, as I'm not asking if it should be changed. I accept EST, and that's that. I mean...isn't this set by the laws of the area in question? Nothing we can do about that...right? I was wondering more about the usage of the string EDT by the websites, which, to me at least, appears wrong. It made me wonder how dateandtime.com and worldtimeserver.com are arriving at this label...if, in addition to the tz database, they're maybe including cultural usage considerations into the results. I'm hoping that Steffen Thorsen may respond and explain the result. The EDT usage piqued my interest because of a similar situation in the US with postal addressing. There are cities who are referenced by a common name instead of their official name...and the better commercial ZIP code databases will include a list of alternate names for cities. So I was wondering if this was a similar situation of there being an alternate common usage, and possibly a list of common labels alternates somewhere. on Sun Oct 30 08:44:55 2011"Robert Elz" <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU> wrote: > | So I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is some unwritten accepted > | practice of referring to Australian daylight saving time as EDT > > As Philip said, there has been a lot of disscussion of this topic over > the years - check the list archives - and I doubt there's much to be > gained by doing it all again. Referring to summer time as "daylight > saving time" is relatively common in normal usages, though it is actually > defined as "summer time" in most of the Aust jurisdictions (the states are > in charge, not the Commonwealth govt) - but actual use of the string "EDT" > is (or was, the last time I looked) relatively rare. > > kre > >

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Sydney, Australia (and other places) DST indication (or lack thereof)
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 30, 2011

Oct. 30, 2011

I'm testing my zone conversion process and I thought I could just check the conversion with the Internet. So I get local time for Sydney, Australia, and then check my result with internet searches by searching for "time in Sydney Australia." Bing returns Current time in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia It is currently 11:31:34 AM on 10/30/2011 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time) Google returns 11:31am Sunday (EST) - Time in Sydney NSW, Australia Time oriented sites... timeanddate.com returns Sunday, October 30, 2011 at 11:31:34 AM EDT worldtimeserver.com returns 11:31 AM Sunday, October 30, 2011 Eastern Daylight Time (EDT) +1100 UTC (I selected both of those because they're referenced in the australasia data.) The two websites returned "EDT", and Bing implies "EDT" with its "Eastern Daylight Time." I thought I had a bug, but review of the tz database clearly states otherwise...it's "EST". Google was the only one to get it right (according to the tz database, that is.) So I'm wondering if anyone knows if there is some unwritten accepted practice of referring to Australian daylight saving time as EDT in colloquial speech, even though that labeling doesn't actually exist. Any thoughts on the subject are appreciated.

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Proposed time zone package changes (Fiji, Pridnestrovie Moldova)
by Robert Elz Oct. 30, 2011

Oct. 30, 2011

Here are proposed changes to the time zone package. Just two updates this time. The executive summary europe Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (Europe/Tiraspol) has not followed much of Russia, and will not retain summer time - rather reverting to standard time along with western Europe, and Ukraine, on Oct 30, as it was earlier scheduelled to do. This removes the Europe/Tiraspol zone (again) as the variation never actually happened... (and returns the entry in the "backward" file). australasia Fiji has altered the end date for summer time this summer, moving it from February to January. I am by no means confident it won't shift again, but this does appear to be the current plan. To go with those, the backward file has Europe/Tiraspol returned to it (linking it to Europe/Chisinau) and zone.tab returns to a single entry for Moldova (MD). I plan to release these next Monday (October 31) - this means that anyone using Europe/Tiraspol and the tzdata2011m data set will get incorrect timestamps on Oct 30 (after 03:00 or whatever) and Oct 31 (until after the update), but the easy solution is to simply use Europe/Chisinau in all parts of Moldova. The missing sccs id version number in zone.tab is/was the unreleased version with the corrected syntax for the Moldovan entries when it was split. kre --- australasia 2011/10/15 03:21:32 1.4 +++ australasia 2011/10/24 16:58:31 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)australasia 8.28 +# @(#)australasia 8.29 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -308,6 +308,20 @@ # advance at 2am to 3am on October 23, 2011 and one hour back at 3am to # 2am on February 26 next year. +# From Ken Rylander (2011-10-24) +# Another change to the Fiji DST end date. In the TZ database the end date for +# Fiji DST 2012, is currently Feb 26. This has been changed to Jan 22. +# +# <a href="http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5017:am…"> +# http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5017:am… +# </a> +# states: +# +# The end of daylight saving scheduled initially for the 26th of February 2012 +# has been brought forward to the 22nd of January 2012. +# The commencement of daylight saving will remain unchanged and start +# on the 23rd of October, 2011. + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Fiji 1998 1999 - Nov Sun>=1 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 1999 2000 - Feb lastSun 3:00 0 - @@ -316,7 +330,7 @@ Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S -Rule Fiji 2012 only - Feb 26 3:00 0 - +Rule Fiji 2012 only - Jan 22 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time --- backward 2011/10/24 14:32:15 1.2 +++ backward 2011/10/28 09:53:47 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)backward 8.10 +# @(#)backward 8.11 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -67,6 +67,7 @@ Link Africa/Cairo Egypt Link Europe/Dublin Eire Link Europe/London Europe/Belfast +Link Europe/Chisinau Europe/Tiraspol Link Europe/London GB Link Europe/London GB-Eire Link Etc/GMT GMT+0 --- europe 2011/10/24 14:33:06 1.2 +++ europe 2011/10/28 09:59:09 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)europe 8.39 +# @(#)europe 8.40 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -1678,6 +1678,18 @@ # a pre-1880 LMT offset of 1:58:32. # # (which agrees with the earlier entry that had been removed) +# +# From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-10-26) +# NO need to divide Moldova into two timezones at this point. +# As of today, Transnistria (Pridnestrovie)- Tiraspol reversed its own +# decision to abolish DST this winter. +# Following Moldova and neighboring Ukraine- Transnistria (Pridnestrovie)- +# Tiraspol will go back to winter time on October 30, 2011. +# News from Moldova (in russian): +# <a href="http://ru.publika.md/link_317061.html"> +# http://ru.publika.md/link_317061.html +# </a> + # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Chisinau 1:55:20 - LMT 1880 @@ -1694,21 +1706,6 @@ # See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. 2:00 EU EE%sT -Zone Europe/Tiraspol 1:58:32 - LMT 1880 - 1:55 - CMT 1918 Feb 15 # Chisinau MT - 1:44:24 - BMT 1931 Jul 24 # Bucharest MT - 2:00 Romania EE%sT 1940 Aug 15 - 2:00 1:00 EEST 1941 Jul 17 - 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 24 - 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 - 3:00 - MSK 1990 May 6 - 2:00 - EET 1991 - 2:00 Russia EE%sT 1992 - 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1997 -# See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. - 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u - 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time - # Monaco # Shanks & Pottenger give 0:09:20 for Paris Mean Time; go with Howse's # more precise 0:09:21. --- zone.tab 2011/10/24 14:42:32 1.2 +++ zone.tab 2011/10/28 09:54:04 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)zone.tab 8.50 +# @(#)zone.tab 8.52 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # @@ -258,7 +258,6 @@ MA +3339-00735 Africa/Casablanca MC +4342+00723 Europe/Monaco MD +4700+02850 Europe/Chisinau -MD +4651+02938 Europe/Tiraspol Pridnestrovie ME +4226+01916 Europe/Podgorica MF +1804-06305 America/Marigot MG -1855+04731 Indian/Antananarivo

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tzdata2011m.tar.gz
by Robert Elz Oct. 30, 2011

Oct. 30, 2011

The file ftp://munnari.oz.au/pub/tzdata2011m.tar.gz ...is now available; this reflects changes circulated last week on the time zone mailing list, with minor corrections as pointed out on the list. In particular, the typos in comments in the data (2011-11-17 should have been 2011-10-17 as Alan Barrett noted, and spelling of Tiraspol that Tim Parenti noted) have been fixed, and the change for Ukraine has been made in all 4 Ukrainian zones, rather than just Kiev (again, thanks to Tim Parenti, and also Denys Gavrysh) In addition, I added Europe/Tiraspol to zone.tab. This time, all the files have new version numbers... (including the files otherwise unchanged in 2011m that were changed in 2011l but didn't get new version numbers there...) Still no proper signatures, so once again, crypto digest values using several algorithms (from the NetBSD pkgsrc digest program) are appended, and can be used to verify that the file you fetched is the same as the one I generated. kre MD5 (tzdata2011m.tar.gz) = 6dc4455b62c951dcf367a239ca249e69 RMD160 (tzdata2011m.tar.gz) = e5b56e7d1be05a43fe3acd64522831475c2c531e SHA1 (tzdata2011m.tar.gz) = e6374cd41c5bffd7ade27c365c4bdc5213bb9d85 SHA512 (tzdata2011m.tar.gz) = 4d37ad2f4f2d89f7dadc70a5abb8bc946ff4668501723aea5f8a33ac0aa2b97df907753ae02a1b8d55e80d03cf4c22fcaac5e403a9a3b853514431213441e963 TIGER (tzdata2011m.tar.gz) = cff43577a2aa395b1057dce91ea0f9a10bf282c466fe421e WHIRLPOOL (tzdata2011m.tar.gz) = 33c5a59121de3499e1c07beb353c77ac6ecb33ff96fc397985811194e133f83743effd3e015ea0640e8d701ac42505b6c48250f33cd800e54744367f9a5603df

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Cuba ends DST on November 13
by Steffen Thorsen Oct. 29, 2011

Oct. 29, 2011

Cuba will end DST two weeks later this year. Instead of going back tonight, it has been delayed to 2011-11-13 at 01:00. One source (Spanish) http://www.radioangulo.cu/noticias/cuba/17105-cuba-restablecera-el-horario-… "A la 01:00 am de la madrugada del domingo 13 de noviembre, en Cuba se atrasará una hora las manecillas del reloj, con lo que quedará establecido en todo el territorio cubano el horario del meridiano de Greenwich." Our page: http://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/cuba-time-changes-2011.html Best regards, Steffen Thorsen - timeanddate.com

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Re: [tz] tzdata2011m.tar.gz
by Edwin Groothuis Oct. 29, 2011

Oct. 29, 2011

On 30/10/2011, at 01:06 , Andreas Radke wrote: > Am Sun, 30 Oct 2011 00:53:11 +1100 > schrieb Edwin Groothuis <edwin(a)mavetju.org>: > >> Is that with 2011l or with 2011m? >> >> It is a known problem in 2011l, it is fixed in 2011m with the removal >> of the second MD line. Just add "Most locations" behind the second MD >> line if you want to run 2011l. >> >> Edwin > > That is with 2011m. So it seems not fixed here. You are right. In the email with subject "[tz] Proposed time zone package changes (Fiji, Pridnestrovie Moldova)" it had the zone.tab fixed. Now it seems that the 2011m does still have them: [~/tzdata] edwin@minimac>curl -o a.tgz ftp://munnari.oz.au/pub/tzdata2011m.tar.gz […] [~/tzdata] edwin@minimac>tar zxf a.tgz [~/tzdata] edwin@minimac>grep MD zone.tab MD +4700+02850 Europe/Chisinau MD +4651+02938 Europe/Tiraspol Pridnestrovie While the email said: -# @(#)zone.tab 8.50 +# @(#)zone.tab 8.52 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # @@ -258,7 +258,6 @@ MA +3339-00735 Africa/Casablanca MC +4342+00723 Europe/Monaco MD +4700+02850 Europe/Chisinau -MD +4651+02938 Europe/Tiraspol Pridnestrovie ME +4226+01916 Europe/Podgorica MF +1804-06305 America/Marigot MG -1855+04731 Indian/Antananarivo Edwin

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UK news about Rebecca Harris' Daylight Saving Bill (no changes yet)
by Peter Ilieve Oct. 28, 2011

Oct. 28, 2011

In January I sent something about the latest attempt to change the clocks in the UK: MP Rebecca Harris' Daylight Saving Bill (a private members' Bill). If passed, this Bill might result in the UK moving the clocks forward an hour so we match most of Europe. The Bill is still waiting for its committee stage, the next stage of its passage though Parliament. Today the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills issued a press release saying they will be tabling amendments to the Bill, with the implication that if passed, the government might support it. The main thing mentioned is a requirement to consult the devolved administrations in Scotland and Wales, and to get the agreement of the Northern Ireland administration. There is also mention of changing the Bill's independent commission (that would assess the study that the Bill proposes) into an independent oversight group that would advise the government. The amendments haven't appeared on the Bill's pages on the Parliament website yet, but they look like wrecking amendments to me, rather than any evidence of the government changing its mind. The chances of the Scottish government agreeing to this are very low as polls have always shown most Scots are against advancing the clocks. The change from the commission to an oversight group looks like an attempt to change it into something the government can ignore, whatever it reports. The press release says the Bill's committee stage is expected in early November so something should happen soon. The press release is at <http://nds.coi.gov.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=421778&NewsAreaID=2> and the Bill's main page is at <http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/daylightsaving.html>. -- Peter Ilieve peter(a)aldie.co.uk

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Re: [tz] Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 27, 2011

Oct. 27, 2011

That's okay. My compiler is done and I can now create a database containing transitions for each zone. Thanks everyone for the help and the indirect help I received through the archive. Willy ----- Original Message ----- On Mon Oct 24 14:43:41 2011"Steve Allen" <sla(a)ucolick.org> wrote: > On Mon 2011-10-24T14:21:04 -0400, Willy(a)willylorenzo.com hath writ: > > Yes, it would be nice to use the binaries, but I have to provide a complete > > solution that can, upon someone retrieving and extracting the tz data, > > update the db with a click of a button on a Windows computer. > > Unless I'm mistaken one of the goals of the CalConnect Timezone > Technical Committee effort is to define network server mechanism for > providing zoneinfo to any client which needs to know that. > Is this the sort of project which can wait for that spec to mature and > use its data? If so that might be preferable to inventing yet another > mechanism.

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Robert Elz as TZ coordinator and designated technical expert
by Marshall Eubanks Oct. 26, 2011

Oct. 26, 2011

Hello; I volunteered to act on the behalf of the Time Zone Database community and relay the call (by David Keegel) that the TZ mailing list has reached a consensus that Robert Elz ( kre(a)munnari.oz.au) should be TZ Coordinator, and the technical expert to IANA designated by the IESG, as is called for in draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04 While that document has not been formally published by the IETF, it has been approved by the IESG and IANA is now administering the Time Zone database and mailing list under its provisions, so a technical expert is needed. On the primary thread discussing this on the TZML this there were over 20 messages and no opposition in over 2 weeks of LC, so I think that there is no doubt that the consensus is very solid. He has been acting in this role in a temporary capacity so there would be no perturbations caused by this appointment. Pete and Peter, could you please relay this to the entire IESG? I would be glad to answer any questions, and I am sure that David K would be as well. Regards Marshall Eubanks

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zdump issues
by Thom Hehl Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

I'm trying to write a C++ wrapper for the timezone database. I have run ZIC to convert the data to binary files and know where these are. Now I'm having a look at zdump because, when I'm done, I want to convert UTC to a time zone of my choice. Problem is when I run zdump it never seems to return anything different. E.g., thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Anchorage America/Anchorage Mon Oct 24 19:46:24 2011 GMT thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Chicago America/Chicago Mon Oct 24 19:46:34 2011 GMT thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Kentucky/Louiville America/Kentucky/Louiville Mon Oct 24 19:48:21 2011 GMT My clock is current set to Eastern Daylight. Thanks.

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Re: [tz] Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Yes, it would be nice to use the binaries, but I have to provide a complete solution that can, upon someone retrieving and extracting the tz data, update the db with a click of a button on a Windows computer. So I have to compile the data myself. If the format of the data files changes, that's fine...I'll just update the process. It doesn't seem too difficult, though. Reading some of the messages in the archive has helped me to better understand the process. I basically have to create UTC transition dates for every year covered by an individual rule. I create a date/time from the rule, adjust it by the GMTOFF of the zone (accounting for u indicators,) and then adjust it by any daylight saving time that might be in effect from a previous rule (accounting for s indicators.) That's not so bad. I'm still trying to figure out a slick way of handling max, though. On Mon Oct 24 05:23:23 2011"Alois Treindl" <alois(a)astro.ch> wrote: > > Personally, I would not recommend of writing yet another tz compiler. Reading and processing the binary files created by zic seems to me a much cleaner and more reliable approach.

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Ukraine and DST
by Denys Gavrysh Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Hello. On September 20, 2011 the deputies of the Ukrainian parliament (Verkhovna Rada) agreed to abolish the transfer clock to winter time. But on October 19 that decision was finally canceled. Here is an official document (in Ukrainian): http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 I wrote a patch for latest tzdata archive that returns daylight saving time for Ukraine (in attachment). We very need it.

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Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

I was wondering if there exists a high-level description of the process of converting a wall-time from one zone into UTC (and vice-versa) that describes the conversion using the text based zone information (the rules and zones) rather than referencing the binary files. If conversions simply cant be done that way because they require additional data thats produced by zic, then Id like to know that too. Im attempting an implementation of the TZ database in a system called Lotus Notes, which uses a BASIC like language for programming called LotusScript. So I pretty much have to build everything from scratch...which is fine. Im going through the archives and Ive already found good info there from the recent "Time zone confusion and implementation hints" thread back in July (dont know why Yves Goergen didnt want to install Cygwin...5 minutes after reading that message I had Cygwin installed and was reviewing those tzinfo files!) But Im still looking for (what seems to be) basic information, such as can the tz code convert 2011-11-06 1:30 AM America/New_York? That date seems to gets different results based on which converter I use online, as it would appear that you have to know the DST status in order to get the DST status to convert to UTC. I know nothing about Unix or the c/c++/java languages so I know have a steep learning curve if I want to understand the existing tz code...but Im hoping that if I can understand the zone conversion process then I can write the necessary code. Ive got the nearly 5300 lines of rules, zones, leaps, and links stored in a Notes db for easier manipulation, and I can take a zone UNTIL or a rule and year and produce a date from it. So its a start. Thanks. Willy Lorenzo

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Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Todd Glassey Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

So I need to properly introduce myself to explain why I said what I said on the list. I am a professional timekeeper meaning that I and my team operate clocks which end users rely on. My team runs 10 of the NIST public access timebase systems and is expanding the availability of UTC to include PTP and other evidence-control tools as add-ons for traceable time. That said - the TZ data is used in virtually all commercial and electronic document/instrument processing systems operational today. The problem is that the Time Zone data itself (while created through a standards process) has largely been managed as an ad-hoc offering and this was accepted everywhere because the party and hosting entity for this were the US Government NIH and Dr. Olson. But with the good Dr.s retirement there is a need to formalize this process and expand its controls so that the data remains both properly managed and available to all. So the question is how to do that, and I have pushed back that this effort is much more important and needs to be managed outside an IETF process because of the lack of control the IETF has designed into its framework. This specific project is one which needs a level of oversight that the IETF process doesnt put in place for changes and content updates to the DB. What needs to happen I believe is that this effort should define a process wherein any legal authority can request a IANA update to the data base and have that processed in a fixed timeframe outside of any continued IETF review. This is not an excuse to make a new IETF WG to control the world... its about letting the world operate in a manner which doesnt impose the IETF's judgement or political opinions on anyone either. That said my proposal is to morph the current I-D by adding an inline update process to the CONTENT RECORDS of the DB and a NEW RECORD Addition Policy and Practice through IANA and not the IETF. In closing - My apologies for antagonizing anyone, and I would point out that since we do about 300M timesettings per day - all tied to TZ's I would retort I may be one of the only people here who is NOT a troll... Todd -- Todd S. Glassey - CISM CIFI CTO Certichron Inc This message contains information which may be confidential and/or privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not read, use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) thereto without retaining any copies. Further we have a formal OPT OUT Policy posted on our website pertaining to the use of any Email Addresses gleaned or taken from any source, web, mailing lists, previous customer lists etc. In all instances we choose to formally OPT OUT and this notice constitutes formal disclosure that you may not collect, buy or sell or provide access to this email address or any pertaining to our DNS MX Record Publication License posted on the web at http://www-wp.certichron.com/?page_id=3947.

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Fwd: Re: Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Random832 Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Why doesn't the "reply-to" header get set on these messages? I sent this directly by mistake: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tz] Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue. Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:11:53 -0400 From: Random832 <random832(a)fastmail.us> To: Peter Ilieve <peter(a)aldie.co.uk> On 10/20/2011 1:39 PM, Peter Ilieve wrote: > Assuming you managed to set up this mechanism where a legal authority > can make requests, how many requests do you think would get made? > My guess would be hardly any, maybe even zero. Based on my reading of > this list over many years, lots of governments can barely be trusted > to tell their own citizens what will happen to the clocks. They > probably won't be interested in contacting a bunch of geeks like > us, even if they knew we existed. It may be that these governments are thinking that this is all still done by people changing clocks by hand, so it won't inconvenience anyone if they just announce on the saturday evening news that people should change or not change their clocks that sunday morning. So maybe it would be a good idea to prepare a form letter that can be sent to any agency which enacts a timezone change without any advance notice, explaining the issues involved, and in general the fact that computer systems have to be updated to know the rules, and that some lead time is necessary for this.

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Proposed time zone package changes (Bahia Brazil, Pridnestrovie, Ukraine)
by Robert Elz Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

Here are proposed changes to the time zone package. The change to Bahia Brazil has already occurred, and the others are due to occur within 10 days (the weekend after next) so updates have become urgent (yet again)... The executive summary europe Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (Europe/Tiraspol) has followed much of Russia, and will retain "summer time" year round (that is no time transition is due Oct 30). This reintroduces a zone that had earlier been removed, and so removes the "backward" link. On the other hand, Ukraine have decided not to follow, so the change which had been made in preparation for that in tzdata2011k is now reverted, and there will be a transition on Oct 30. southamerica The change to Bahia, Brazil, that introduced summer time (following the regular Brazil rules, so commencing this year on Oct 16 - last SUnday) that was mooted before tzdata2011l was released, but withdrawn becase the change was not yet official, has now been ratified. Aside from that, the other files that were changed in tzdata2011l but where the sccs id was not altered, have all been given new version numbers (southamerica has gone up by two, one for the 2011l changes, and another for this set). Sorry, still no signatures (I have not had time to do anything about that) but I will distribute hash values as I did for tzdata2011l. Please test these changes (particularly those of you using 64 bit time_t systems). I plan to release the next update (with thiese changes) on Monday October 24. kre --- asia 2011/10/08 02:27:38 1.3 +++ asia 2011/10/15 03:17:13 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# @(#)asia 8.68 +# @(#)asia 8.69 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- australasia 2011/10/08 02:28:28 1.3 +++ australasia 2011/10/15 03:18:03 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)australasia 8.27 +# @(#)australasia 8.28 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- backward 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ backward 2011/10/20 02:20:30 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)backward 8.9 +# @(#)backward 8.10 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -67,7 +67,6 @@ Link Africa/Cairo Egypt Link Europe/Dublin Eire Link Europe/London Europe/Belfast -Link Europe/Chisinau Europe/Tiraspol Link Europe/London GB Link Europe/London GB-Eire Link Etc/GMT GMT+0 --- europe 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ europe 2011/10/20 02:30:32 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)europe 8.38 +# @(#)europe 8.39 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -1655,6 +1655,29 @@ # But [two people] separately reported via # Jesper Norgaard that as of 2001-01-24 Tiraspol was like Chisinau. # The Tiraspol entry has therefore been removed for now. +# +# From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-10-17): +# Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as +# "Pridnestrovie") has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition +# to the Winter Time). +# +# News (in Russian): +# <a href="http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi…"> +# http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi… +# </a> +# +# <a href="http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html"> +# http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html +# </a> +# +# The substance of this change (reinstatement of the Tiraspol entry) +# is from a patch from Petr Machata (2011-11-17) +# +# From Tim Parenti (2011-10-19) +# In addition, being situated at +4651+2938 would give Tiraspola +# a pre-1880 LMT offset of 1:58:32. +# +# (which agrees with the earlier entry that had been removed) # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Chisinau 1:55:20 - LMT 1880 @@ -1671,6 +1694,21 @@ # See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. 2:00 EU EE%sT +Zone Europe/Tiraspol 1:58:32 - LMT 1880 + 1:55 - CMT 1918 Feb 15 # Chisinau MT + 1:44:24 - BMT 1931 Jul 24 # Bucharest MT + 2:00 Romania EE%sT 1940 Aug 15 + 2:00 1:00 EEST 1941 Jul 17 + 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 24 + 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 + 3:00 - MSK 1990 May 6 + 2:00 - EET 1991 + 2:00 Russia EE%sT 1992 + 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1997 +# See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. + 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u + 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + # Monaco # Shanks & Pottenger give 0:09:20 for Paris Mean Time; go with Howse's # more precise 0:09:21. @@ -2651,6 +2689,28 @@ # <a href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/"> # http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/ # </a> +# +# From Philip Pizzey (2011-10-18): +# Today my Ukrainian colleagues have informed me that the +# Ukrainian parliament have decided that they will go to winter +# time this year after all. +# +# From Udo Schwedt (2011-10-18): +# As far as I understand, the recent change to the Ukranian time zone +# (Europe/Kiev) to introduce permanent daylight saving time (similar +# to Russia) was reverted today: +# +# <a href="http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=…"> +# http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=… +# </a> +# +# Also reported by Alexander Bokovoy (2011-10-18) who also noted: +# The law documents themselves are at +# +# <a href="http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484"> +# http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 +# </a> + # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # Most of Ukraine since 1970 has been like Kiev. @@ -2665,8 +2725,7 @@ 3:00 - MSK 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 - EET 1992 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 - 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u - 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + 2:00 EU EE%sT # Ruthenia used CET 1990/1991. # "Uzhhorod" is the transliteration of the Ukrainian name, but # "Uzhgorod" is more common in English. --- northamerica 2011/10/07 06:36:36 1.2 +++ northamerica 2011/10/15 03:17:28 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)northamerica 8.49 +# @(#)northamerica 8.50 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- southamerica 2011/10/08 02:30:24 1.3 +++ southamerica 2011/10/15 03:46:37 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)southamerica 8.50 +# @(#)southamerica 8.52 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -818,6 +818,19 @@ # oficial agency about time in Brazil, and she confirmed that the old rule is # still in force. +# From Guilherme Bernardes Rodrigues (2011-10-14) +# It's official, the President signed a decree that includes Bahia in summer +# time. +# [ and in a second message (same day): ] +# I found the decree. +# +# DECRETO No- 7.584, DE 13 DE OUTUBRO DE 2011 +# Link : +# <a href="http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina…"> +# http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina… +# </a> + + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV20466.htm">20,466</a> (1931-10-01) # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV21896.htm">21,896</a> (1932-01-10) @@ -1054,10 +1067,8 @@ # of America/Salvador. Zone America/Bahia -2:34:04 - LMT 1914 -3:00 Brazil BR%sT 2003 Sep 24 - -3:00 - BRT -# as noted above, not yet in operation. -# -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 -# -3:00 Brazil BR%sT + -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 + -3:00 Brazil BR%sT # # Goias (GO), Distrito Federal (DF), Minas Gerais (MG), # Espirito Santo (ES), Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Sao Paulo (SP), Parana (PR),

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Chicago on Eastern Time in 1936
by Garrett Wollman Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

There are no comments in the "northamerica" file explaining Chicago's brief stint on EST. I ran across a small article in /Broadcasting/ magazine (dated November 11, 1935), which read thus: Chicago Going EST CHICAGO'S radio goes on a time parity with New York March 1, 1936, when by order of the City Council it will push its clocks forward an hour and function on Eastern Standard Time the year round. The ruling of the council, however, does not provide for pushing the clocks forward still another hour when New York and many other cities go on Daylight Savings Time during the summer. Nevertheless, the parity of time between Chicago and the East is expected to ease radio scheduling considerably, especially of programs keyed to networks from Chicago. -GAWollman

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database proposal
by Steven Abner Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

First, thank you Mr. Elz. I wish to propose an amendment to your standards. This proposal is purely from a programmer's perspective, future growth, the need for speed. In your work called "Theory", subsection "Names of time zone rule files", I'd like to propose a limitation to the general rules. To the first rule "Use only valid POSIX", I submit the amendment of "The total file name length should not exceed 30 characters." This addition should allow for a buffer of 32 characters, the 30 mentioned, the POSIX ':' for use as a file signal, and the terminating NUL character. Currently you have 573 zones, all but 1 are within these bounds. This is for future naming, and in hopes that access to data can be sped up, searching, copying, etc., by a compiler or programmer to make use of things like vector units and 4-64bit moves for copying, rather than calling another routine to copy. For full disclosure, the one offending zone is "America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia" in the "backwards" file, so hopefully this does not give too much weight to a "negative" verdict on this proposal. On a different matter, I'd like to throw into the pot as you called it, the suggestion of "LJT" for a generic zone abbreviation. This would stand for "Local Jurisdictional Time". It would seemed to me, more likely to be welcomed amongst the locales that it would apply to. It has no connotation of "Standard" or "Savings". The LMT has meaning, the ZZZ is or was used for indication of the founding of a locale. It hopefully reinforces the right and ability of an independent locale, either by law or practice, to their own means of time representation. Steve

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Pridnestrovie (Tiraspol) is reconsidering the abolition of seasonal time
by World Time Zone Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Pridnestrovie (Tiraspol) is reconsidering the abolition of seasonal time in 2011 after neighboring Ukraine reversed its decision to abolish DST and Moldova planned to continue its seasonal clock change. News (in Russian) http://www.kommersant.md/node/5202 or http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_tiraspol02.html or some translation by Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com: "Transnistrian deputies will once again return to the issue of seasonal time change at the next plenary session of the Pridnestrovie parliament. A deputy chairman of the Committee on Social Policy, Valery Chervonooky expressed the hope that Transnistria (Pridnestrovie), Moldova and Ukraine would have the same time zone" Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com Guttenberg, New Jersey

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Tiraspol (Pridnestrovie)- has abolished seasonal clock change
by World Time Zone Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as "Pridnestrovie")- city Tiraspol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition to the Winter Time). News (in Russian) http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na- zimnee-vremya-30954.html or http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html translation by Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com: "The president of the unrecognized republic (Pridenstrove), Igor Smirnov signed a decree to abolish transition to the winter time and vice versa." P.S. Moldova (Chisinau), which considers Transnistria its own territory, goes back to the winter time on the last Sunday of October. Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com Guttenberg, New Jersey

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Newbie
by Thom Hehl Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

OK, I run my timezone database under windows, so, after a couple of tries, I got the code I downloaded from the TZ database site to compile under windows. Now what? I looked at the HTML files and there's no readme or anything else that looks like documentation on how to use it.

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Re: [tz] Elliot - I want to talk about the TZ project ASAP...
by Todd Glassey Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:51:45 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Please see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04. > > Eliot > SNIP > Thanks - great start Elliot - let me make some devils advocate commentary. 0) We need two mailing lists - a general convo list and a second list for formal announcements as to changes in the DB itself. The reasons are that most of the relying parties who will subscribe to list #2 *(the DB Changes List) dont want anything else to do with this process., They are relying parties who need to be noticed when there are formal changes in the list only. A) we should tie the TZ use statement in the opening to to Log Correlation and tools like UNIX XDAS or the MITRE CEE groups work. It also needs to be noticed in the I-D that TZ's are a function of International Metrological Law and Treaty and are managed by the legal holders of those rights for the jurisdictions represented. B) The TZ information needs to be tied to some Authority Context so that each TZ is tied to a National or Judicial Context in some form. That means each TZ is functionally tied to a Originating Authority - in the US for instance this would be 15 USC 260 which then further stratifies the time data to a set of Metrological Authorities within that Legal Instance of Time. That means a TZ Management Actor for each TZ published must be established. I suggest adding a STAKEHOLDER ROLE to the Submission Practice and that the Stakeholder may amend the content of the publication-list with respect to the TZ(s) they hold control over here, and that a simple notice from the Stakeholder to the DB Coordinator should trigger both an update to the list and a public-service notice to a new TZ Announce List which is specific to TZ Changes and availability Statements from the DB Coordinator/DBA C) The Data Base is actually a legal publication and the IETF has nothing to say about its presentation of that content. Further the IETF failing to properly make changes creates both civil and potentially criminal liabilities in a number of situations that OLSON was immune from under the 11th Amendment Protections accorded to the NIH. To sidestep that liability there are a number of things we can do with the Stakeholder Role suggested in B too - we should talk more about this and who actually owns this data.Likewise, since this is a legal document that is being published with is a distillation of a number of metrological and trade treaties the IETF or ANY part of the IANA stand in the way of a legal jurisdiction making immediate changes to that list, its international law. Sop the Draft needs work there. Todd -- Todd S. Glassey - CISM CIFI CTO Certichron Inc This message contains information which may be confidential and/or privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not read, use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) thereto without retaining any copies. Further we have a formal OPT OUT Policy posted on our website pertaining to the use of any Email Addresses gleaned or taken from any source, web, mailing lists, previous customer lists etc. In all instances we choose to formally OPT OUT and this notice constitutes formal disclosure that you may not collect, buy or sell or provide access to this email address or any pertaining to our DNS MX Record Publication License posted on the web at http://www-wp.certichron.com/?page_id=3947.

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Defense fund
by Thom Hehl Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Please forgive me if this is inappropriate to discuss on this list, but I was wondering if a defense fund has been set up for the guys defending against the Astrolabe lawsuit. I started the Protect the timezone database facebook group and would be happy to help fundraise. If inappropriate, please reply to me off list. Thanks.

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