- tz - lists.iana.org

Comments and a question (VTIMEZONE from zoneinfo)
by Phil Budne Sept. 15, 2011

Sept. 15, 2011

Some meta-comments, some comments, and a question: The page at http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm says: "Please send corrections to this web page to the time zone mailing list." Reading the directory at http://www.twinsun.com/tz/ shows the html file hasn't changed since 2008-06-30. Until I checked the twinsun.com WHOIS entry and saw it's owned by (current tz editor) Paul Eggert, I was wondering about whether to trust the page at all! At some point I lost the twinsun URL, and couldn't find a link in any obvious places, like Wikipedia, or ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/ So my first comment is, the tz-link page needs more meta information (eg; date of last change & author). If the tz-link page is being maintained, there should be visible links to it in obvious places, and if it isn't, the page should have a comment reflecting this. It would be useful to have a .html file at ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/ with current information, a link to current information, or at least a link to dated, but possibly useful information! Since this is my first public comment on the TZ list, let me express my long time admiration (I remember 4BSD when the rules were compiled into libc, and systems like TOPS-20, where they were in the "kernel") to all, past and present who have endeavored to make sense of this herculian problem (the proportions and magnitude of which are so truely perverse, that they could only have been made by mankind which, unlike nature, has no collective ability (or perhaps more succinctly or single authority powerful enough) to conform to Occam's Razor. As a side comment, there's nothing more Talmudic than commentary on commentary, so the appreciation of the tzdata files at http://blog.jonudell.net/2009/10/23/a-literary-appreciation-of-the-olsonzon… as talmudic is especially apropos! Finally, I know it's unlikely to change, but I find the fact that the tzdata tar files extract to the current directory (as opposed to creating a new directory) to be, to be kind "quaint". And I'll confess, I have a project that's so dated (a 1990's "finger" program, from back when exposing personal information on the Internet wasn't considered a problem) whose tar file is still available on my FTP server that has the same "charming" behavior of unloading it's contents into an unsuspecing extractor's current working directory. On to non-meta commentary: The link for "vzic": http://www.dachaplin.dsl.pipex.com/vzic/ is dead. There is a vzic project at: http://vzic.sourceforge.net/ and http://vzic.sourceforge.net/ Registered in 2006, and unchanged since 2010. http://code.google.com/p/tzurl/ says "This project is a fork of the vzic project." and appears to be under active development/maintenance. Related pages/projects are: http://tzurl.org/ which supplies "the latest Olson DB timezone definitions in iCalendar format" (generated using "tzurl") And "ical4j" http://code.google.com/p/ical4j/ "A suite of Java libraries for managing iCalendar and vCard data" and http://wiki.modularity.net.au/ical4j/index.php?title=Main_Page Which at http://wiki.modularity.net.au/ical4j/index.php?title=Timezones reads: iCal4j provides it's own TimeZone implementation as opposed to using the default Java timezone implementation. This is to ensure that all timezones in iCal4j can be accurately represented using a VTIMEZONE component in calendar data. The iCal4j timezone is essentially an implementation of java.util.TimeZone that is backed by a net.fortuna.ical4j.component.VTimeZone instance. Whilst a timezone instance may be created explicitly, typical usage is to obtain a TimeZoneRegistry instance and retrieve the timezone instance from the registry. And FINALLY, a question: Has anyone heard of code that reads binary tz data, and outputs VTIMEZONE info? Extracting rules for a specific year is sufficient. I can SWEAR I once saw an "unzic" program, but maybe I'm having a new bout of a particular form of senior moment I've experienced before, where I remember things that have never happened. We've been using vzic, but it isn't a great solution since RedHat Linux doesn't supply an RPM for the timezone source files that vzic needs to run, so we're stuck having to track version of the tzdata RPM on the specific version of RedHat that the product installs on. I got involved because I felt the seismic activity when the problem landed on the desk of an engineer without sufficient experience to grasp of the enormity of the hairball that had just hit him. Thanks Phil

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FW: Gaza and Hebron in 2011?
by Wallace, Malcolm Sept. 15, 2011

Sept. 15, 2011

Second attempt to send this to the tz list... ________________________________ From: Wallace, Malcolm Sent: 14 September 2011 17:14 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: RE: Gaza and Hebron in 2011? http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/clockchange.html?n=702 http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/clockchange.html?n=1048 According to these sources: Hebron moved from standard time to daylight saving, at 0001hrs on 1st April 2011 Hebron reverted from daylight saving to standard time, at 0000hrs on 1st August 2011 Hebron moved from standard time to daylight saving, at 0000hrs on 30th August 2011 Hebron reverts from daylight saving to standard time, at 0300hrs on 3rd October 2011 Gaza moved from standard time to daylight saving, at 0001hrs on 2nd April 2011 Gaza reverted from daylight saving to standard time, at 0000hrs on 1st August 2011 Gaza has remained on standard time since the second occurrence of 2300hrs 31st July 2011. Other background articles: http://timeanddate.com/news/time/west-back-starts-dst-2011.html http://timeanddate.com/news/time/palestine-dst-2011.html http://timeanddate.com/news/time/gaza-dst-2011.html ________________________________ From: Arthur Olson [mailto:arthurdavidolson@gmail.com] Sent: 14 September 2011 16:43 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Gaza and Hebron in 2011? So...for both Gaza and Hebron: 1. At what exact instant did the region revert to standard time in 2011? 2. At what exact instant (if any) did/does the region start its second stretch of daylight time in 2011? 3. At what exact instant (if any) did/does the region end its second stretch of daylight time in 2011? Thanks for any light folks can shed. --ado This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the addressee, do not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this email or any attachments. If received in error, notify the sender immediately and delete this email and any attachments from your system. Emails cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error free as the message and any attachments could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, delayed, incomplete or amended. Standard Chartered PLC and its subsidiaries do not accept liability for damage caused by this email or any attachments and may monitor email traffic. Standard Chartered PLC is incorporated in England with limited liability under company number 966425 and has its registered office at 1 Aldermanbury Square, London, EC2V 7SB. Standard Chartered Bank ("SCB") is incorporated in England with limited liability by Royal Charter 1853, under reference ZC18. The Principal Office of SCB is situated in England at 1 Aldermanbury Square, London EC2V 7SB. In the United Kingdom, SCB is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority under FSA register number 114276. If you are receiving this email from SCB outside the UK, please click http://www.standardchartered.com/global/email_disclaimer.html to refer to the information on other jurisdictions.

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Theory - zone creation description wrong
by Mr tobias conradi Sept. 14, 2011

Sept. 14, 2011

As far as I can see tzcode2011i/Theory is missing the fact that for each country at least one zone is created. I.e. maybe Luxembourg and France may have their own zones not due to different timestamp observance since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC but simply due to the fact that they are different countries. CURRENT "the world is partitioned into regions whose clocks all agree about time stamps that occur after the somewhat-arbitrary cutoff point of the POSIX Epoch (1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC). For each such region, the database records all known clock transitions, and labels the region with a notable location." PROPOSED "the world is partitioned into regions, named zones, whose clocks all agree about time stamps that occur after the somewhat-arbitrary cutoff point of the POSIX Epoch (1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC). Additional for each country at least one zone is created. For each zone, the database records all known clock transitions, and labels the zone with a notable location. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin, Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Gaza and Hebron in 2011?
by Arthur Olson Sept. 14, 2011

Sept. 14, 2011

So...for both Gaza and Hebron: 1. At what exact instant did the region revert to standard time in 2011? 2. At what exact instant (if any) did/does the region start its second stretch of daylight time in 2011? 3. At what exact instant (if any) did/does the region end its second stretch of daylight time in 2011? Thanks for any light folks can shed. --ado

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Antarctic timezones.
by Ivan S. Sept. 14, 2011

Sept. 14, 2011

Hi! I have information about time in few russian antarctic year-round bases. This is a list for inclusion in to the file "antarctica": # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Antarctica/Bellingshausen 0 - zzz 1968 -3 - BELL # Bellingshausen time Zone Antarctica/Mirny 0 - zzz 1956 7 - MIRN # Mirny time Zone Antarctica/Novolazarevskaya 0 - zzz 1959 0 - NOVO # Novolazarevskaya time Zone Antarctica/Progress 0 - zzz 1989 5 - PRGS # Progress time Zone Antarctica/Vostok 0 - zzz 1957 7 - VOST # Vostok time ================ And this strings are for inclusion in to the file "zone.tab": AQ -621159-0585337 Antarctica/Bellingshausen Bellingshausen Station, King George Island AQ -663320+0930111 Antarctica/Mirny Mirny Station, Davis coast AQ -704634+0114921 Antarctica/Novolazarevskaya Novolazarevskaya Station, Queen Maud Land AQ -692251+0762325 Antarctica/Progress Progress Station, Larsemann Hills AQ -782750+1065013 Antarctica/Vostok Vostok Station, Lake Vostok -- Best regards from Antarctica, Bellingshausen st. Ivan Sedychenkov

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Re: New zone for DE, split from Europe/Berlin
by Mr tobias conradi Sept. 12, 2011

Sept. 12, 2011

Alois Treindl 2011-09-12 22:25:46 GMT: > It is too early to propose this as a new zone for tzdata. Too early to be included is one thing, but too early to be proposed, is another thing. I think people are free to submit proposals at any time. > The practice for each zone in tzdata is that also the complete history > from the beginning of standard time must be included in the zone file. 1) Alois Treindl 2011-08-30 14:40:48 GMT: "I have compiled a complete timezone history of Germany." http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/3951 Buesingen is part of Germany says http://www.buesingen.de/ "Büsingen am Hochrhein ist, wenn auch ringsum von Schweizer Hoheitsgebiet umgeben, deutsches Hoheitsgebiet" 2) I see no proof that it is practice "that complete history from the beginning of standard time must be included in the zone file." 3) I see no statement in the Theory file nor in README that would require such a practice. To the contrary, Theory file says: "As noted in the README file, the tz database is not authoritative (particularly not for pre-1970 time stamps), and it surely has errors. Corrections are welcome and encouraged." README says: "The information in the time zone data files is by no means authoritative; the files currently do not even attempt to cover all time stamps before 1970, and there are undoubtedly errors even for time stamps since 1970. If you know that the rules are different from those in a file, by all means feel free to change file (and please send the changed version to tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov for use in the future)." 4) I did not edit the file(s) in question since I don't know how to structure it. I hope someone with more knowledge can help to fix the current error for 1980. Additional pre-1970 imprecisions remain open to be fixed, the fix I propose does not hinder future progress. Little geography fix for my other email: >> The German exclave of Büsingen (http://www.buesingen.de/) surrounded by >> the Swiss canton Schaffhausen, and across the Rhine the cantons of Thurgau and Zurich -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin, Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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US Mountain/Central border at Fort Pierre SD
by Steve Jones Sept. 12, 2011

Sept. 12, 2011

If I might seek the wisdom of the list on a minor topic: The current Mountain/Central boundary in the most recent official US DOT description (49CFR71.7, http://goo.gl/tqBou) has the border running right through Fort Pierre South Dakota. Here is the relevant text: > From the junction of the North Dakota-South Dakota boundary with > the Missouri River southerly along the main channel of that river > to the crossing of the original Chicago & North Western Railway > near Pierre; thence southwesterly to the northern boundary of Jones > County at the northeast corner of the NE 1, Sec. 6, T. 2 N., R. 30 > E. [note: that's about 44.18635, -100.54646) That makes a straight line from the railroad bridge north of town to 44.18635, -100.54646, this line not making much sense in the context of what's on the ground. A second-hand recent conversation with a Stanley County SD official was relayed to me, including the following: >...The person with whom I spoke said the official dividing line is >the Bad River, which makes more >sense than bisecting Fort Pierre. ... The communities along the >Bad River are so tiny (several houses each) that they don't have >official policies. The person with whom I spoke assumed they would >use Central Time because aside from Fort Pierre, there's no >significant populated place that's even close. There are several common sense border adjustments I could make here and probably be more accurate than the DOT (with regards to what a traveler would encounter in the area). Something like a line from the southern end of the dam at Lake Oahe southward to the Bad River, then following the Bad River soutwesterly to the northern border of Jones County... (and from that point rejoining the DOT description). I would prefer to use some authoritative reference - if possible. Any advice on how to proceed? All I can think of is to try a reference librarian in Pierre. Cheers, Steve Jones

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Theory - zone name, zone creation, zone lifetime
by Mr tobias conradi Sept. 12, 2011

Sept. 12, 2011

Theory reads: To represent this data, the world is partitioned into regions whose clocks all agree about time stamps that occur after the somewhat-arbitrary cutoff point of the POSIX Epoch (1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC). Issue: 1) Where are these regions listed? The only lists of geographical areas I could find are: - the zones in zone.tab - (current) countries in iso3166.tab Theory reads: Use ISO 3166 (see the file iso3166.tab) to help decide whether something is a country. [...] or when locations change countries (e.g. Hong Kong from UK colony to China) Issue: 1) "help to decide" - decision process is undefined. 2) Hong Kong is listed in iso3166.tab as HK.For the purpose of zone creation is it 2a) a country,then it is confusing to say it changed country, or 2b) is it part of China (CN) then it is confusing to mark it with HK 3) In case HK and one of the zones in CN observed the same time since 1970, and that HK is not a country, would there be a merge and would one zone be dropped from zone.tab and any corresponding pre-1970 history be deleted? Theory reads: Within a file name component, use only ASCII letters Issue: 1) It is not defined what the term "file name component" refers to in the context of zone naming. Theory reads: E.g. prefer `Paris' to `France', since France has had multiple time zones. Issue: 1) It does not matter what zones France "had" in the past. 2) It may matter that Europe/Paris might be split in the future. 3) There is no proof in zone.tab that France had multiple time zones at all, there is only one line marked "FR": FR+4852+00220Europe/Paris -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin, Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Proclaimed changes to time of Newfoundland Time Zone for Daylight Savings Time
by Pelley, Michael Sept. 12, 2011

Sept. 12, 2011

Hi Folks, We received today, Monday, September 12, 2011, notification that the changes to the Newfoundland Standard Time Act have been proclaimed. The change in the Act stipulates that the change from Daylight Savings Time to Standard Time and from Standard Time to Daylight Savings Time now occurs at 2:00AM. I have included the text of the statute (URL http://www.assembly.nl.ca/legislation/sr/annualstatutes/2011/1106.chp.ht m <http://www.assembly.nl.ca/legislation/sr/annualstatutes/2011/1106.chp.h tm> ) and the official proclamation from THE NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRADOR GAZETTE. Please update the TZ database to reflect this proclaimed change. Thank you. Cheers Mike ----------------------------------------------- MICHAEL PELLEY | Manager of Enterprise Architecture - Solution Delivery Office of the Chief Information Officer Executive Council Government of Newfoundland & Labrador P.O. Box 8700, 40 Higgins Line, St. John's NL A1B 4J6 709 729-7457 (t) | 709 729-6767 (f) | 709 690-2513 (c) | mpelley(a)gov.nl.ca <mailto:xxxxxxxxx@gov.nl.ca> “This email and any attached files are intended for the sole use of the primary and copied addressee(s) and may contain privileged and/or confidential information. Any distribution, use or copying by any means of this information is strictly prohibited. If you received this email in error, please delete it immediately and notify the sender.”

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data2011j
by Arthur David Olson Sept. 12, 2011

Sept. 12, 2011

The file... ftp://elsie.nci.nh.gov/pub/tzdata2011j.tar.gz ...is now available; this reflects the changes circulated recently on the times zone mailing list (contemporary changes for Samoa; past changes for Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania); there are also two spelling corrections to comments in the australasia file (with thanks to Christos Zoulas). I expect another version will appear soon to handle changes in the Middle East (and perhaps in Russia); folks seeking to avoid version churn may want to wait a bit. --ado

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