May 2012 - tz - lists.iana.org

Re: [tz] zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
by Tobias Conradi May 11, 2012

May 11, 2012

was "[tz] zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations [OT - English]" I return to on topic. On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis(a)systematicsw.ab.ca> wrote: .... >> C) >> I mean and meant location as in zone.tab >> "Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations" >> >> D) >> I mean and meant location as in Theory file: > ... > Use of location in Theory refers to a specific place > to be used as the time zone name. Not true. tzcode2012b\Theory: ----- Names of time zone rule files ----- Names normally have the form AREA/LOCATION, where AREA is the name of a continent or ocean, and LOCATION is the name of a specific location within that region. ---------------------------------------- I.e. the /name of a specific location/ is to be used as one /part/ of the time zone name. > Use of places in zone.tab comments refers to the general locales where the > same time zone is observed around the specific location used for the time > zone name; And the use of "locations" in zone.tab is the same. Following are some quotes from RFC 5545 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545 Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545#page-28 Failure to include and follow VTIMEZONE definitions in iCalendar objects may lead to inconsistent understanding of the local time at any given location. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545#page-64 Many locations adjust their Standard Time forward or backward by one hour, in order to accommodate seasonal changes in number of daylight hours, often referred to as Daylight Saving Time. Some locations adjust their time by a fraction of an hour. ... This database contains current and historical time zone information for a wide variety of locations around the globe http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545#section-3.8.1.7 Property Name: LOCATION Purpose: This property defines the intended venue for the activity defined by a calendar component. The IETF GEOPRIV site https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/geopriv/charter/ uses "location" and not "place". Some related ISO standards: a) ISO 19112:2003 Geographic information -- Spatial referencing by geographic identifiers 4.4 location identifiable geographic place found via http://www.iso.org/obp/ui/ b) http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_ics/catalogue_detail_ics.htm… ISO 6709:2008 Standard representation of geographic point location by coordinates c) http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnu… ISO 19133:2005 Geographic information -- Location-based services -- Tracking and navigation Annex: Background information for when the inconsistencies first occurred in the tzdb: tzdata1996l/zone.tab did only have "most locations" and no "most places" America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), New Brunswick, Labrador & PEI But did have America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973 tzdata1998a/zone.tab maybe earlier, contains "most places" once: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), NB, W Labrador, E Quebec & PEI And twelve times "most locations". -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
by Tobias Conradi May 11, 2012

May 11, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - places that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - places that did not observe DST 1967-1973 Proposed: America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most locations), PEI America/Glace_Bay Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - locations that did not observe DST 1966-1971 America/Nipigon Eastern Time - Ontario & Quebec - locations that did not observe DST 1967-1973 Reason: Harmonize. Theory uses "locations" (9x) more often than "places" (2x) zone.tab uses "place" only thrice, namely within the comments field of the three above zone for Canada. zone.tab uses "location" more than 20x. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Fwd: zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations
by Tobias Conradi May 10, 2012

May 10, 2012

A comment by Steffen Daode Nurpmeso. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Steffen Daode Nurpmeso <sdaoden(a)googlemail.com> Date: Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [tz] zone.tab comments Canada - places -> locations To: Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: | On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Haxby <john.haxby(a)oracle.com> wrote: | > On 10/05/12 05:06, Tobias Conradi wrote: | > No. | No what? | > A native English speaker (like me) would not swap "place" for | I think, if "places" is unambiguous and precise, Tobias Conradi, a | non-native English speaker, wouldn't say "locales" instead of "places" | But me - a non-native English speaker - I would try to avoid choosing Domingos de la gran Puta. M.f.G. --steffen Forza Figa! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Russia tidbits
by OvV_HN May 10, 2012

May 10, 2012

Regarding: [tz] Uzbekistan - insufficient location desciption Tobias Conradi tobias.conradi at gmail.com Wed May 9 15:48:29 UTC 2012 I would like to propose to ignore this email for the moment. Tobias is trying to give more details for the east / west division of Uzbekistan. Looking at the TZ asia file I get the impression that we are talking about the situation in the olden days. Furthermore I get the impression that Tobias is trying to overlay the current divisions of Uzbekistan to the situation before 1930, when there were 2 distinct timezones. If you look at old maps, you will notice that for instance the Samarkand region cannot be described in terms of provinces of 2012. Reference: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B4%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%… (Administrative divisions of Uzbekistan, in Russian) In my opinion the comments in the TZ asia file (Samarkand Time, Tashkent Time) can be regarded as sufficient. Provisionally you may call this West, East, as in zone.tab. So, don't change no nothing! Regarding: Sakha Republic and the Newsiberian Islands. I haven't given a reference yet, here it is: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Sakha_Republic_Munici… In this map we see that the Newsiberian Islands (Novosibirskije Ostrova) are part of the Bulunskij Ulus, numbered 6 in the map. This is no definite proof, but good enough for me. Regarding: Transliteration of Russian names. Please don't Americanize too much. The letter "y" is overused. In that case the reconstruction back into Cyrillic is somewhat difficult. ISO 9 System B, or what I used (Chemical Abstracts = British Standard BS 2979-1958) is better suited for 2-way transliterations. Which I prefer. But if TZ prefers the American way: be my guest. But try to be a bit consistent, which would involve erasing all my Russian transliterations (haha!). Oscar van Vlijmen

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Housekeeping
by David Braverman May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Yesterday I asserted that Paul Eggert was confirmed as the list coordinator about four weeks ago. I've since gone back through the archive and didn't find an formal announcement. Can someone at IANA or in the IESG send official word? Also, I'm not sure of the procedure or criteria, if any, for banning someone from the list, but I would suggest taking a look to see if the person in question had ever gotten banned from other communities, and under what circumstances. For example, if someone had been banned multiple times from another online community for incivility and sock puppetry, and currently has an indefinite ban from that group, that would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? David Braverman Inner Drive Technology http://www.inner-drive.com/Demo/Timezones.aspx

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zone.tab comments - most, most places -> most locations
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia (most places), PEI Proposed: Asia/Urumqi Tibet & Xinjiang - most locations America/Halifax Atlantic Time - Nova Scotia - most locations, PEI Reason: Harmonize with Australia/Hobart Tasmania - most locations Australia/Sydney New South Wales - most locations Australia/Brisbane Queensland - most locations Australia/Perth Western Australia - most locations America/Goose_Bay Atlantic Time - Labrador - most locations America/Montreal Eastern Time - Quebec - most locations America/Toronto Eastern Time - Ontario - most locations America/Iqaluit Eastern Time - east Nunavut - most locations America/Regina Central Standard Time - Saskatchewan - most locations America/Mexico_City Central Time - most locations America/Detroit Eastern Time - Michigan - most locations -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Potentially a libel/ criminal offence on the tz mailing list WAS: Housekeeping
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 4:05 PM, gunther Vermeir <gunther.vermeir(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I assume you refer to tobias conradi's several wiki/media/pedia/etc bans? If your claim cannot be proven it may constitute libel, which is a criminal offence in several jurisdictions. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Proposed changes: Sakha/Kuril shifts in 2011
by Arthur David Olson May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

I've attached proposed changes for 2011 Sakha/Kuril time zone shifts; they also appear below (with tab characters mangled). --ado diff -r -c new/europe newer/europe *** new/europe 2012-05-05 09:40:53.091364400 -0400 --- newer/europe 2012-05-09 10:32:28.819887000 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.43 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.44 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. *************** *** 2044,2049 **** --- 2044,2113 ---- # Russia + # From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-09-15): + # Based on last Russian Government Decree # 725 on August 31, 2011 + # (Government document + # <a href="http://www.government.ru/gov/results/16355/print/"> + # http://www.government.ru/gov/results/16355/print/ + # </a> + # in Russian) + # there are few corrections have to be made for some Russian time zones... + # All updated Russian Time Zones were placed in table and translated to English + # by WorldTimeZone.com at the link below: + # <a href="http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_russia36.htm"> + # http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_russia36.htm + # </a> + + # From Sanjeev Gupta (2011-09-27): + # Scans of [Decree #23 of January 8, 1992] are available at: + # <a href="http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966"> + # http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966 + # They are in Cyrillic letters (presumably Russian). + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Regarding the instant when clocks in time-zone-shifting parts of Russia + # changed in September 2011: + # + # One source is + # < a href="http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/> + # http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ + # </a> + # which, according to translate.google.com, begins "Decree of August 31, + # 2011 No 725" and contains no other dates or "effective date" information. + # + # Another source is + # <a href="http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html"> + # http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html + # </a> + # which, according to translate.google.com, begins "Resolution of the + # Government of the Russian Federation on August 31, 2011 N 725" and also + # contains "Date first official publication: September 6, 2011 Posted on: + # in the 'RG' - Federal Issue number 5573 September 6, 2011" but which + # does not contain any "effective date" information. + # + # Another source is + # <a href=" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7"> + # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7 + # </a> + # which, in note 8, contains "Resolution #725 of August 31, 2011... + # Effective as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication" + # but which does not contain any reference to September 6, 2011. + # + # The Wikipedia article refers to + # <a href=" http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=118896"> + # http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=118896 + # </a> + # which seems to copy the text of the government.ru page. + # + # Tobias Conradi combines Wikipedia's + # "as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication" + # with www.rg.ru's "Date of first official publication: September 6, 2011" to get + # September 13, 2011 as the cutover date (unusually, a Tuesday, as Tobias Conradi notes). + # + # None of the sources indicates a time of day for changing clocks. + # + # Go with 2011-09-13 0:00s. + # From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22): # Except for Moscow after 1919-07-01, I invented the time zone abbreviations. # Moscow time zone abbreviations after 1919-07-01, and Moscow rules after 1991, *************** *** 2330,2343 **** # [parts of] Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya). # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): ! # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, Tomponskij, Ust'-Majskij, ! # Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok 8:47:44 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 11:00 - VLAT # # Sakhalinskaya oblast'. # The Zone name should be Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but that's too long. --- 2394,2419 ---- # [parts of] Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya). # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): ! # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, ... Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok 8:47:44 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 11:00 - VLAT + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Tomponskij and Ust'-Majskij switched from Vladivostok time to Yakutsk time + # in 2011. + + Zone Asia/Khandyga 9:02:13 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 + 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time + 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 11:00 - VLAT 2011 Sep 13 0:00s # Decree 725? + 10:00 - YAKT + # # Sakhalinskaya oblast'. # The Zone name should be Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but that's too long. *************** *** 2356,2368 **** # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, ! # Nizhnekolymskij, Ojmyakonskij, Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan 10:03:12 - LMT 1924 May 2 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 12:00 - MAGT # # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Kamchatskaya oblast', Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug. --- 2432,2456 ---- # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, ! # Nizhnekolymskij, ... Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan 10:03:12 - LMT 1924 May 2 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 12:00 - MAGT + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Ojmyakonskij and the Kuril Islands switched from + # Magadan time to Vladivostok time in 2011 + Zone Asia/Ust-Nera 9:32:54 - LMT 1924 May 2 + 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time + 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 12:00 - MAGT 2011 Sep 13 0:00s # Decree 725? + 11:00 - VLAT + # # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Kamchatskaya oblast', Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug. diff -r -c new/zone.tab newer/zone.tab *** new/zone.tab 2012-05-05 09:40:50.719228800 -0400 --- newer/zone.tab 2012-05-09 10:29:45.352537200 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.57 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.58 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 344,351 **** --- 344,353 ---- RU +5601+09250 Asia/Krasnoyarsk Moscow+04 - Yenisei River RU +5216+10420 Asia/Irkutsk Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal RU +6200+12940 Asia/Yakutsk Moscow+06 - Lena River + RU +623923+1353314 Asia/Khandyga Moscow+06 - Tomponsky, Ust-Maysky RU +4310+13156 Asia/Vladivostok Moscow+07 - Amur River RU +4658+14242 Asia/Sakhalin Moscow+07 - Sakhalin Island + RU +643337+1431336 Asia/Ust-Nera Moscow+07 - Oymyakonsky RU +5934+15048 Asia/Magadan Moscow+08 - Magadan RU +5301+15839 Asia/Kamchatka Moscow+08 - Kamchatka RU +6445+17729 Asia/Anadyr Moscow+08 - Bering Sea

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Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: >> And it is privacy violation to send unsolicited private emails. > > We disagree OK. > I shall not engage your further given your position. Thank you. > This is a private message I expect not to see forwarded to the list. I will start not forwarding your private message to me, after you stop sending me private messages. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Below an opinion of Steffen Daode Nurpmeso, unfortunately in German, which is not the main language for the tz mailing list. 2012/5/9 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso <sdaoden(a)googlemail.com>: > Es gibt viele Leute, die Fehler melden, auch bittere, > und die trotzdem niemals irgendeine Rückmeldung bekommen. > Auf deine momentane Art erreicht man jedenfalls auf gar keinen > Fall irgendetwas, erst recht nichts gutes. > Und wieso glaube ich, dass du das genau weißt. > Danke für dein Verständnis. > > --steffen > Forza Figa! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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