October 2011 - tz - lists.iana.org

Fwd: Re: Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Random832 Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Why doesn't the "reply-to" header get set on these messages? I sent this directly by mistake: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tz] Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue. Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:11:53 -0400 From: Random832 <random832(a)fastmail.us> To: Peter Ilieve <peter(a)aldie.co.uk> On 10/20/2011 1:39 PM, Peter Ilieve wrote: > Assuming you managed to set up this mechanism where a legal authority > can make requests, how many requests do you think would get made? > My guess would be hardly any, maybe even zero. Based on my reading of > this list over many years, lots of governments can barely be trusted > to tell their own citizens what will happen to the clocks. They > probably won't be interested in contacting a bunch of geeks like > us, even if they knew we existed. It may be that these governments are thinking that this is all still done by people changing clocks by hand, so it won't inconvenience anyone if they just announce on the saturday evening news that people should change or not change their clocks that sunday morning. So maybe it would be a good idea to prepare a form letter that can be sent to any agency which enacts a timezone change without any advance notice, explaining the issues involved, and in general the fact that computer systems have to be updated to know the rules, and that some lead time is necessary for this.

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Proposed time zone package changes (Bahia Brazil, Pridnestrovie, Ukraine)
by Robert Elz Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

Here are proposed changes to the time zone package. The change to Bahia Brazil has already occurred, and the others are due to occur within 10 days (the weekend after next) so updates have become urgent (yet again)... The executive summary europe Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (Europe/Tiraspol) has followed much of Russia, and will retain "summer time" year round (that is no time transition is due Oct 30). This reintroduces a zone that had earlier been removed, and so removes the "backward" link. On the other hand, Ukraine have decided not to follow, so the change which had been made in preparation for that in tzdata2011k is now reverted, and there will be a transition on Oct 30. southamerica The change to Bahia, Brazil, that introduced summer time (following the regular Brazil rules, so commencing this year on Oct 16 - last SUnday) that was mooted before tzdata2011l was released, but withdrawn becase the change was not yet official, has now been ratified. Aside from that, the other files that were changed in tzdata2011l but where the sccs id was not altered, have all been given new version numbers (southamerica has gone up by two, one for the 2011l changes, and another for this set). Sorry, still no signatures (I have not had time to do anything about that) but I will distribute hash values as I did for tzdata2011l. Please test these changes (particularly those of you using 64 bit time_t systems). I plan to release the next update (with thiese changes) on Monday October 24. kre --- asia 2011/10/08 02:27:38 1.3 +++ asia 2011/10/15 03:17:13 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# @(#)asia 8.68 +# @(#)asia 8.69 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- australasia 2011/10/08 02:28:28 1.3 +++ australasia 2011/10/15 03:18:03 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)australasia 8.27 +# @(#)australasia 8.28 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- backward 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ backward 2011/10/20 02:20:30 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)backward 8.9 +# @(#)backward 8.10 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -67,7 +67,6 @@ Link Africa/Cairo Egypt Link Europe/Dublin Eire Link Europe/London Europe/Belfast -Link Europe/Chisinau Europe/Tiraspol Link Europe/London GB Link Europe/London GB-Eire Link Etc/GMT GMT+0 --- europe 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ europe 2011/10/20 02:30:32 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)europe 8.38 +# @(#)europe 8.39 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -1655,6 +1655,29 @@ # But [two people] separately reported via # Jesper Norgaard that as of 2001-01-24 Tiraspol was like Chisinau. # The Tiraspol entry has therefore been removed for now. +# +# From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-10-17): +# Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as +# "Pridnestrovie") has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition +# to the Winter Time). +# +# News (in Russian): +# <a href="http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi…"> +# http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi… +# </a> +# +# <a href="http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html"> +# http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html +# </a> +# +# The substance of this change (reinstatement of the Tiraspol entry) +# is from a patch from Petr Machata (2011-11-17) +# +# From Tim Parenti (2011-10-19) +# In addition, being situated at +4651+2938 would give Tiraspola +# a pre-1880 LMT offset of 1:58:32. +# +# (which agrees with the earlier entry that had been removed) # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Chisinau 1:55:20 - LMT 1880 @@ -1671,6 +1694,21 @@ # See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. 2:00 EU EE%sT +Zone Europe/Tiraspol 1:58:32 - LMT 1880 + 1:55 - CMT 1918 Feb 15 # Chisinau MT + 1:44:24 - BMT 1931 Jul 24 # Bucharest MT + 2:00 Romania EE%sT 1940 Aug 15 + 2:00 1:00 EEST 1941 Jul 17 + 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 24 + 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 + 3:00 - MSK 1990 May 6 + 2:00 - EET 1991 + 2:00 Russia EE%sT 1992 + 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1997 +# See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. + 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u + 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + # Monaco # Shanks & Pottenger give 0:09:20 for Paris Mean Time; go with Howse's # more precise 0:09:21. @@ -2651,6 +2689,28 @@ # <a href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/"> # http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/ # </a> +# +# From Philip Pizzey (2011-10-18): +# Today my Ukrainian colleagues have informed me that the +# Ukrainian parliament have decided that they will go to winter +# time this year after all. +# +# From Udo Schwedt (2011-10-18): +# As far as I understand, the recent change to the Ukranian time zone +# (Europe/Kiev) to introduce permanent daylight saving time (similar +# to Russia) was reverted today: +# +# <a href="http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=…"> +# http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=… +# </a> +# +# Also reported by Alexander Bokovoy (2011-10-18) who also noted: +# The law documents themselves are at +# +# <a href="http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484"> +# http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 +# </a> + # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # Most of Ukraine since 1970 has been like Kiev. @@ -2665,8 +2725,7 @@ 3:00 - MSK 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 - EET 1992 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 - 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u - 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + 2:00 EU EE%sT # Ruthenia used CET 1990/1991. # "Uzhhorod" is the transliteration of the Ukrainian name, but # "Uzhgorod" is more common in English. --- northamerica 2011/10/07 06:36:36 1.2 +++ northamerica 2011/10/15 03:17:28 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)northamerica 8.49 +# @(#)northamerica 8.50 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- southamerica 2011/10/08 02:30:24 1.3 +++ southamerica 2011/10/15 03:46:37 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)southamerica 8.50 +# @(#)southamerica 8.52 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -818,6 +818,19 @@ # oficial agency about time in Brazil, and she confirmed that the old rule is # still in force. +# From Guilherme Bernardes Rodrigues (2011-10-14) +# It's official, the President signed a decree that includes Bahia in summer +# time. +# [ and in a second message (same day): ] +# I found the decree. +# +# DECRETO No- 7.584, DE 13 DE OUTUBRO DE 2011 +# Link : +# <a href="http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina…"> +# http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina… +# </a> + + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV20466.htm">20,466</a> (1931-10-01) # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV21896.htm">21,896</a> (1932-01-10) @@ -1054,10 +1067,8 @@ # of America/Salvador. Zone America/Bahia -2:34:04 - LMT 1914 -3:00 Brazil BR%sT 2003 Sep 24 - -3:00 - BRT -# as noted above, not yet in operation. -# -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 -# -3:00 Brazil BR%sT + -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 + -3:00 Brazil BR%sT # # Goias (GO), Distrito Federal (DF), Minas Gerais (MG), # Espirito Santo (ES), Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Sao Paulo (SP), Parana (PR),

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Chicago on Eastern Time in 1936
by Garrett Wollman Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

There are no comments in the "northamerica" file explaining Chicago's brief stint on EST. I ran across a small article in /Broadcasting/ magazine (dated November 11, 1935), which read thus: Chicago Going EST CHICAGO'S radio goes on a time parity with New York March 1, 1936, when by order of the City Council it will push its clocks forward an hour and function on Eastern Standard Time the year round. The ruling of the council, however, does not provide for pushing the clocks forward still another hour when New York and many other cities go on Daylight Savings Time during the summer. Nevertheless, the parity of time between Chicago and the East is expected to ease radio scheduling considerably, especially of programs keyed to networks from Chicago. -GAWollman

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database proposal
by Steven Abner Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

First, thank you Mr. Elz. I wish to propose an amendment to your standards. This proposal is purely from a programmer's perspective, future growth, the need for speed. In your work called "Theory", subsection "Names of time zone rule files", I'd like to propose a limitation to the general rules. To the first rule "Use only valid POSIX", I submit the amendment of "The total file name length should not exceed 30 characters." This addition should allow for a buffer of 32 characters, the 30 mentioned, the POSIX ':' for use as a file signal, and the terminating NUL character. Currently you have 573 zones, all but 1 are within these bounds. This is for future naming, and in hopes that access to data can be sped up, searching, copying, etc., by a compiler or programmer to make use of things like vector units and 4-64bit moves for copying, rather than calling another routine to copy. For full disclosure, the one offending zone is "America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia" in the "backwards" file, so hopefully this does not give too much weight to a "negative" verdict on this proposal. On a different matter, I'd like to throw into the pot as you called it, the suggestion of "LJT" for a generic zone abbreviation. This would stand for "Local Jurisdictional Time". It would seemed to me, more likely to be welcomed amongst the locales that it would apply to. It has no connotation of "Standard" or "Savings". The LMT has meaning, the ZZZ is or was used for indication of the founding of a locale. It hopefully reinforces the right and ability of an independent locale, either by law or practice, to their own means of time representation. Steve

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Pridnestrovie (Tiraspol) is reconsidering the abolition of seasonal time
by World Time Zone Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Pridnestrovie (Tiraspol) is reconsidering the abolition of seasonal time in 2011 after neighboring Ukraine reversed its decision to abolish DST and Moldova planned to continue its seasonal clock change. News (in Russian) http://www.kommersant.md/node/5202 or http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_tiraspol02.html or some translation by Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com: "Transnistrian deputies will once again return to the issue of seasonal time change at the next plenary session of the Pridnestrovie parliament. A deputy chairman of the Committee on Social Policy, Valery Chervonooky expressed the hope that Transnistria (Pridnestrovie), Moldova and Ukraine would have the same time zone" Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com Guttenberg, New Jersey

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Tiraspol (Pridnestrovie)- has abolished seasonal clock change
by World Time Zone Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as "Pridnestrovie")- city Tiraspol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition to the Winter Time). News (in Russian) http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na- zimnee-vremya-30954.html or http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html translation by Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com: "The president of the unrecognized republic (Pridenstrove), Igor Smirnov signed a decree to abolish transition to the winter time and vice versa." P.S. Moldova (Chisinau), which considers Transnistria its own territory, goes back to the winter time on the last Sunday of October. Alexander Krivenyshev- WorldTimeZone.com http://www.worldtimezone.com Guttenberg, New Jersey

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Newbie
by Thom Hehl Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

OK, I run my timezone database under windows, so, after a couple of tries, I got the code I downloaded from the TZ database site to compile under windows. Now what? I looked at the HTML files and there's no readme or anything else that looks like documentation on how to use it.

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Re: [tz] Elliot - I want to talk about the TZ project ASAP...
by Todd Glassey Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:51:45 AM, Eliot Lear wrote: > Please see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04. > > Eliot > SNIP > Thanks - great start Elliot - let me make some devils advocate commentary. 0) We need two mailing lists - a general convo list and a second list for formal announcements as to changes in the DB itself. The reasons are that most of the relying parties who will subscribe to list #2 *(the DB Changes List) dont want anything else to do with this process., They are relying parties who need to be noticed when there are formal changes in the list only. A) we should tie the TZ use statement in the opening to to Log Correlation and tools like UNIX XDAS or the MITRE CEE groups work. It also needs to be noticed in the I-D that TZ's are a function of International Metrological Law and Treaty and are managed by the legal holders of those rights for the jurisdictions represented. B) The TZ information needs to be tied to some Authority Context so that each TZ is tied to a National or Judicial Context in some form. That means each TZ is functionally tied to a Originating Authority - in the US for instance this would be 15 USC 260 which then further stratifies the time data to a set of Metrological Authorities within that Legal Instance of Time. That means a TZ Management Actor for each TZ published must be established. I suggest adding a STAKEHOLDER ROLE to the Submission Practice and that the Stakeholder may amend the content of the publication-list with respect to the TZ(s) they hold control over here, and that a simple notice from the Stakeholder to the DB Coordinator should trigger both an update to the list and a public-service notice to a new TZ Announce List which is specific to TZ Changes and availability Statements from the DB Coordinator/DBA C) The Data Base is actually a legal publication and the IETF has nothing to say about its presentation of that content. Further the IETF failing to properly make changes creates both civil and potentially criminal liabilities in a number of situations that OLSON was immune from under the 11th Amendment Protections accorded to the NIH. To sidestep that liability there are a number of things we can do with the Stakeholder Role suggested in B too - we should talk more about this and who actually owns this data.Likewise, since this is a legal document that is being published with is a distillation of a number of metrological and trade treaties the IETF or ANY part of the IANA stand in the way of a legal jurisdiction making immediate changes to that list, its international law. Sop the Draft needs work there. Todd -- Todd S. Glassey - CISM CIFI CTO Certichron Inc This message contains information which may be confidential and/or privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not read, use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) thereto without retaining any copies. Further we have a formal OPT OUT Policy posted on our website pertaining to the use of any Email Addresses gleaned or taken from any source, web, mailing lists, previous customer lists etc. In all instances we choose to formally OPT OUT and this notice constitutes formal disclosure that you may not collect, buy or sell or provide access to this email address or any pertaining to our DNS MX Record Publication License posted on the web at http://www-wp.certichron.com/?page_id=3947.

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Defense fund
by Thom Hehl Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Please forgive me if this is inappropriate to discuss on this list, but I was wondering if a defense fund has been set up for the guys defending against the Astrolabe lawsuit. I started the Protect the timezone database facebook group and would be happy to help fundraise. If inappropriate, please reply to me off list. Thanks.

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Attempting to get speedier tz updates
by Robert Elz Oct. 21, 2011

Oct. 21, 2011

Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:16:11 +0100 From: "Clive D.W. Feather" <clive(a)davros.org> Message-ID: <20111020131611.GD27386(a)davros.org> In a message that started out on another thread I don't want to get involved with ... | While it would be nice if they sent us updates, we can't force them. That's true, but I kind of suspect, that we have never even asked. I had been wondering about that, and considering doming something about it, for months now - and just possibly "considering" is all it would ever have been, however, perhaps we should attempt a little better than that. Attempting to contact everyone responsible, directly, would be a lot of work, just identifying the parties involved, so I thought it might be possible to take an easier route, and just ask the UN to do the contact work for us - that is, we write to the UN Secretary General, and ask that the message be redistributed to all member states - the message being a request that they ask whoever (whatever agency) is responsible for actually implementing time issues, to please inform us of any planned or actual changes - and perhaps, if they're able, any historical data they have. If people think this is a reasonable idea then I will implement it. Note: I don't much care if you expect it to actually succeed - if it fails, it has cost almost nothing, but if anyone can see an actual negative possibility from this, then I'd like to hear about it. Also, while I'm happy to draft (and circulate to the list before sending) the letter involved, it would probably be nice from the UN's viewpoint, if we could send in both English and French (and anything else? I doubt we need to consider attempting all 6 official languages.) That I cannot do, so I'd need assistance with translation into French (and anything else suggested as a good idea) - and that assistance needs to be from a fluent (native) speaker I believe, not someone who learned the language in school. Any volunteers? (It won't be very long.) kre

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