- tz - lists.iana.org

Infrastructure - bug tracking system
by Tobias Conradi May 26, 2012

May 26, 2012

Kim, apart from TZ Coordinator Paul Eggert you are the only person I know of that has an official position involved with the IANA time zone database. Is it possible for IANA to provide a bug tracking system for the IANA time zone database maintenance? Currently there are several unfixed bugs, but I can see no full listing of them. So same bugs may get reported several times or stay unfixed without being reported again for a long time. I am aware of several bugs, inconsistencies and suggestions for possible improvements I sent to the mailing list and also of some sent by other people e.g. Alexander Krivenyshev (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008798.html) Andrew Paprocki (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017854.html) Guy Harris (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017756.html) Ian Abbott (http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017725.html) But these or only from the time when I was member of the mailing list. Maybe there are several more bugs that are still not fixed. Tobias -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Bugs in Russia - West Siberia - Eight months past since 2011-09-17
by Tobias Conradi May 26, 2012

May 26, 2012

Just a reminder for Tobias Conradi Wed Apr 18 20:10:55 UTC 2012 http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-April/017638.html [tz] Bugs in Russia - Seven month past since 2011-09-17 - still not fixed -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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"Discussion of Tobias Conradi"
by Tobias Conradi May 26, 2012

May 26, 2012

was: Bug - Statement by Paul Eggert (a TZ Coordinator) on update process not agreeing with IANA sources On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 2:50 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: > In the absence of direction to the contrary, > could we please keep > discussion of Tobias Conradi off of the list? direction is here http://www.iana.org/time-zones "A higher volume discussion list used for discussing proposals for updates to the Database. Contributions to this list may be emailed to tz(a)iana.org." It doesn't mention "discussion of Tobias Conradi". -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] Bug - Statement by Paul Eggert (a TZ Coordinator) on update process not agreeing with IANA sources
by Tobias Conradi May 26, 2012

May 26, 2012

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Paul Eggert <eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu> wrote: > On 05/25/2012 05:20 PM, Tobias Conradi wrote: >>> this sort of behavior is >>> > counterproductive. >> Counterproductive to what? > > Taunting and personal attacks > are counterproductive to the > primary purpose of this mailing list, which is maintaining > the tz code and data. To judge objectively if one person did do that more often than others, it would be needed to at first identify occurrences of such behavior. Furthermore it would be needed to have a complete list of what constitutes counterproductive behavior, since otherwise actions may be taken on counterproductive behavior that is to be found in one person, but not on counterproductive behavior of another. I for one would claim that asking a person that sends lots of reports of bugs to the mailing list which is mentioned on http://www.iana.org/time-zones as "A higher volume discussion list used for discussing proposals for updates to the Database. Contributions to this list may be emailed to tz(a)iana.org." to stop sending them to be counterproductive. It would be more productive to change the description on the website about what the mailing list is to be used for. > If this pattern continues, then I'm > afraid we'll have to part ways. You are free to leave the project. I would regret that some of your knowledge would leave too, since the documentation is in some points inconsistent, but probably it would be possible to sort that out. > We should not be wasting > our time on argumentation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory ... argumentation, is the interdisciplinary study of how conclusions can be reached through logical reasoning I am here to improve the IANA time zone database by logical reasoning. If that is wasting your time, why are you TZ Coordinator? Do you want to maintain the database without logical reasoning? I don't see that defined in Theory file or BCP 175. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Bug - Statement by Paul Eggert (a TZ Coordinator) on update process not agreeing with IANA sources
by Tobias Conradi May 26, 2012

May 26, 2012

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Paul Eggert <eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu> wrote: > On 05/24/2012 03:46 PM, Tobias Conradi wrote: > You should I think I should nothing. I do what I want. > consider taking a step backwards > and refraining from sending email to the tz list > for a while, If you fix all bugs, I will stop emailing. Wasn't it a Paul Eggert who introduced the Idaho bug http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017897.html ? And now a Paul Eggert doesn't like bugs being reported by Tobias Conradi? >as this sort of behavior is > counterproductive. Counterproductive to what? Counterproductive to fixing bugs? http://www.iana.org/time-zones has the text: ------------------ Mailing Lists ... Submissions/Discussions A higher volume discussion list used for discussing proposals for updates to the Database. Contributions to this list may be emailed to tz(a)iana.org. ----------------- That's exactly what I do. If that's not wanted, the page text is wrong. But if one thinks the page text is defining what is wanted, then Paul Eggert may be wrong. At which end is the bug, Paul Eggert or IANA? The page also has the text: TZ Coordinator The IESG-designated TZ Coordinator is Paul Eggert. Would that be you? If so, then here is a part of your role description: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6557 TZ Coordinator: The person or people who maintain and manage release of the TZ Database. I don't see any release at ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/releases/ since 2012-04-13 "The IESG has approved Paul Eggert (eggert at cs.ucla.edu) as the new Time Zone coordinator." (Source: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017853.html ) ========================= Delivered-To: tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com Received: by 10.14.96.144 with SMTP id r16csp81028eef; Thu, 24 May 2012 21:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.221.74 with SMTP id qc10mr28159196pbc.31.1337918798479; Thu, 24 May 2012 21:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu> Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu (smtp.cs.ucla.edu. [131.179.128.62]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id hs4si4058777pbc.296.2012.05.24.21.06.37; Thu, 24 May 2012 21:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu designates 131.179.128.62 as permitted sender) client-ip=131.179.128.62; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu designates 131.179.128.62 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D7C39E800D for <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com>; Thu, 24 May 2012 21:06:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smtp.cs.ucla.edu Received: from smtp.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gPsEGneTXkIk for <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com>; Thu, 24 May 2012 21:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (pool-71-189-109-235.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [71.189.109.235]) by smtp.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2942E39E8007 for <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com>; Thu, 24 May 2012 21:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FBF054C.50108(a)cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 21:06:36 -0700 From: Paul Eggert <eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [tz] Sascha Wildner, asking about working privately and about patching, being on the wrong mailing list References: <CAAGevbVExSqCJPN4p0gBg-TsKSWRZ-pNpjW1zN8OUv-CS_M3HQ(a)mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAAGevbVExSqCJPN4p0gBg-TsKSWRZ-pNpjW1zN8OUv-CS_M3HQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 05/24/2012 03:46 PM, Tobias Conradi wrote: > Mirror mirror on the wall. You should consider taking a step backwards and refraining from sending email to the tz list for a while, as this sort of behavior is counterproductive. ========================================= -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Propose new zone for Crozet Islands
by Tobias Conradi May 25, 2012

May 25, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab only has: TF -492110+0701303 Indian/Kerguelen Note: I couldn't find the rules for Kerguelen, since zone.tab doesn't tell where to look for this and there is no file "indian" like there is "asia" for the zones named "Asia/..." But the rules for Kerguelen are not needed for this proposal. Propose: TF -492110+0701303 Indian/Kerguelen most locations TF -464114+517561 Indian/Crozet Crozet Islands Coordinates are for the center of the biggest island, Possession Island, which is the the Eastern group, which contains also the second biggest island. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crozet_Map.png Reason: http://www.timegenie.com/country.time/tf - Île Amsterdam, Île Saint–Paul and Îles Kerguelen are all UTC/GMT +5 hours - Îles Crozet is UTC/GMT +4 hours supported by http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Eles_Crozet UTC+4 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Eles_Kerguelen UTC+5 -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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time zone abbreviations - uniqueness and meaning
by Tobias Conradi May 25, 2012

May 25, 2012

was: Re: [tz] Propose new zone for Crozet Islands On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Philip Newton <philip.newton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Tobias Conradi > <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> The rule in the Theory file can easier lead to double assignments of >> abbreviations > > I don't think a particular effort is made to make the abbreviations be > unique I don't know how you define "particular". The provision to use ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes for several of them leads to several of them being unique. IIRC there have been emails on the mailing list caring about uniqueness, asking for assignment of another abbreviation to avoid ambiguity. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/australasia contains a longer text by Paul Eggert 2001-04-05 about uniqueness. > or even particularly meaningful. I don't know how you define "particularly". ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory ----- Outline ----- Time and date functions Scope of the tz database Names of time zone rule files Time zone abbreviations Calendrical issues Time and time zones on Mars .... one of six main sections. The section "Time zone abbreviations" contains several rules. They all derive the abbreviation from some other string related to the time zone. > The main identifier is the > "Europe/Berlin" type name, that is the IANA time zone name. IANA time zones are "cross year". > not the "CE(S)T" type one. that is the IANA abbreviation for the non-IANA, the "real world" time zone. One can try to achieve uniqueness of the latter in any given year. The two uniquenesses can be achieved independently. But indeed there are some that are not unique, e.g.: * IST ** India ** Israel (Ephraim Silverberg 1988 invention, even happy about ambiguity: "I am happy to share timezone abbreviations with India, high on my favorite-country list (and not only because my wife's family is from India" ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia ) * EST ** Australia ** US * CST ** Australia ** US * AST ** Arabia (Eggert invention 2006-03-22 ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia) ** Aruba, Curacao, Trinidad and Tobago * GST ** Gulf (Eggert invention 2006-03-22 ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia) ** South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands Also ICT Indochina (Eggert invention 2006-03-22 ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia) IC is a reserved ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 element for the Canary Islands. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Sascha Wildner, asking about working privately and about patching, being on the wrong mailing list
by Tobias Conradi May 24, 2012

May 24, 2012

was: time zone abbreviations - uniqueness and meaning On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Sascha Wildner <saw(a)online.de> wrote: > On Thu, 24 May 2012 12:11:32 +0200, Tobias Conradi > <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> was: Re: [tz] Propose new zone for Crozet Islands >> >> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Philip Newton <philip.newton(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Tobias Conradi >>> <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The rule in the Theory file can easier lead to double assignments of >>>> abbreviations >>> >>> >>> I don't think a particular effort is made to make the abbreviations be >>> unique >> >> I don't know how you define "particular". > > > Well then look it up in a dictionary. I am not aware of an online dictionary by Philip Newton. > How about just working out all your little "proposals" privately I don't know how you define privately here. But you are welcome to work out my proposals privately by whatever definition pleases you. > and posting > a _patch_ to tzdata* like it is good practice? I don't know what tzdata* is. Your definition of "good practice" unknown to me. > I for one will subscribe to the announce list As was announced people that are subscribed to tz get the messages that are send to the announce list too. Maybe you want to get the messages twice? > because I'm really getting > tired of your seemingly endless, annoying dribble. Mirror mirror on the wall. > Thanks to everyone except Tobias and his little "fan club" for keeping the > list low volume and friendly for a long time. http://www.iana.org/time-zones reads "A higher volume discussion list used for discussing proposals for updates to the Database." So maybe you just subscribed to the wrong mailing list. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Steve Jones May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

At 06:00 5/22/2012, Tobias Conradi wrote: > > The Nevada/Idaho state line is the official border, >Not according to >http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=9de43ec56f3779d6aa… Apologies, I mistakenly thought it was clear I was referring to the official vs. observed boundary in the area my post was concerned with, Owyhee NV. It hadn't occurred to me that someone could misconstrue the words "The Nevada/Idaho state line" to refer to time zone borders Nevada shares with states other than Idaho. Cheers, Steve Jones

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Proposal for new zone: America/WestWendover
by Tobias Conradi May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

America/WestWendover covering the City of West Wendover, Nevada currently in America/Detroit According to ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica 8.54 ---start---- # From Rives McDow (2000-08-30): ... # West Wendover, NV (from PST TO MST) ... 1999-10 ---end---- This has already been reported in 2000. Area was on Pacific Time. In 1999 a proposal was made to change it to Mountain Time http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1999-07-26/html/99-19041.htm This was enacted http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1999-10-21/html/99-27240.htm According to http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=9de43ec56f3779d6aa… ---start--------------- as of May 18, 2012 § 71.9 Boundary line between mountain and Pacific zones. b) Utah-Nevada-Arizona-California. From the northeast corner of the State of Nevada southerly along the Utah-Nevada boundary to the junction with the northern border of the City of West Wendover, Nevada. Then westward along the northern, western, and southern boundaries of the City of West Wendover back to the Utah-Nevada boundary. ---end---------------- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1999-10-21/html/99-27240.htm enacting the new border says: ---start------------- This rule is effective at 2:00 a.m. PDT, Sunday, October 31, 1999. ---end------------- -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Idaho tz correction
by Alan Mintz May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

I see someone tried to address this last month but it kind of fell flat. The solution seems clear to me, as described here: >In ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica v8.54 dated 2009-05-17 (the >current version), it says" > ># US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles ># ># California, northern Idaho (Benewah, Bonner, Boundary, Clearwater, ># Idaho, Kootenai, Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, and Shoshone counties, ># and the northern three-quarters of Idaho county), ># most of Nevada, most of Oregon, and Washington > >The first instance of Idaho in the county list (between Clearwater and >Kootenai) should be removed since the list ends with "and the northern >three-quarters of Idaho county". That is, only the northern 3/4 of the >county, not the whole county, is included (assuming that is true). The dividing line is actually the Salmon River, so I would change the paragraph to: # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles # # California, northern Idaho (Benewah, Bonner, Boundary, Clearwater, # Kootenai, Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, and Shoshone counties, # and the part of Idaho county lying north of the Salmon River), # most of Nevada, most of Oregon, and Washington If we wanted to give the same detail treatment to NV and OR: # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles # # - California # - Washington # - Northern Idaho (Benewah, Bonner, Boundary, Clearwater, # Kootenai, Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, and Shoshone counties, # and the part of Idaho county lying north of the Salmon River) # - Oregon (except for the northern 3/4 of Malheur County) # - Nevada (except for West Wendover) I attempted to send this to the contact address at the top of the table (tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov) which was delayed 3 days and then bounced*. Shouldn't the tables be corrected to show the contact info for this list? *Actually, it seems that elsie.nci.nih.gov doesn't have an MX record (any more), so mailers attempt to connect to elsie directly to send mail, but it isn't listening (or won't connect). -- Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+TZ_IANA(a)Earthlink.net>

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Idaho tz correction
by OvV_HN May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

In reply to: [tz] Idaho tz correction Ian Abbott abbotti at mev.co.uk Tue May 22 11:12:18 UTC 2012 .... I guess we'd want to change the comment for Southern Idaho (America/Boise) as well, replacing "the southern quarter of Idaho county" with "the part of Idaho county lying south of the Salmon River".) Though looking at the map, the river meanders a bit so that some of the portion described above as lying south of the Salmon River is actually north of part of the river and south of another part of the same river! Reply: The law says that the "main channel of the Salmon River" the boundary is. US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49 (Transportation), Subtitle A (Office of the Secretary of Transportation), Part 71 (Standard Time Zone Boundaries). See paragraph 71.9. Oscar van Vlijmen

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Re: [tz] northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Steve Jones May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

At 20:27 5/21/2012, Tobias Conradi wrote: >More info the exceptions at: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackpot,_Nevada >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Wendover,_Nevada And <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owyhee,_Nevada>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owyhee,_Nevada. This image: www.discogs.com/Frank-Zappa-Sheik-Yerbouti/release/429613 demonstrates the local time zone border. The Nevada/Idaho state line is the official border, while the portion of the magenta that descends south into Nevada is the local unofficial observed time. Cheers, Steve Jones

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Re: [tz] northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Steve Jones May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

At 01:38 5/22/2012, Philip Newton wrote: >On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Steve Jones ><stevejones(a)ontimezone.com> wrote: > > This image: www.discogs.com/Frank-Zappa-Sheik-Yerbouti/release/429613 > > demonstrates the local time zone border. > >It does? Looks like a CD information page rather than an image to me. LOL and apologies... http://ontimezone.com/images/owyhee.gif That clipboard needs a DWIM (do what I mean) filter. Cheers, Steve Jones

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tz at elsie.nci.nih.gov -> tz at iana.org
by Tobias Conradi May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

was "Idaho tz correction" On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+TZ_IANA(a)earthlink.net> wrote: ... > I attempted to send this to the contact address at the top of the table > (tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov) which was delayed 3 days and then bounced*. > Shouldn't the tables be corrected to show the contact info for this list? > > > *Actually, it seems that elsie.nci.nih.gov doesn't have an MX record (any > more), so mailers attempt to connect to elsie directly to send mail, but it > isn't listening (or won't connect). Tobias Conradi suggested a replacement already at 2012-05-01: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017654.html -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Tobias Conradi May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

was "Idaho tz correction" On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+TZ_IANA(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > I see someone tried to address this last month but it kind of fell flat. The > solution seems clear to me, as described here: > >> In ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica v8.54 dated 2009-05-17 (the >> current version), it says" ... > If we wanted to give the same detail treatment to NV and OR: > > # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles > # ... > # - Nevada (except for West Wendover) Alan, that would introduce inconsistency, since for Mountain time, represented by Denver it says "Nevada border (Jackpot, Owyhee, and Mountain City)" and then West Wendover wouldn't be covered anywhere. I suggest to keep "most of Nevada", but to amend the comments for the Nevada part that is on Mountain time, so the exceptions are only mentioned at one place. More info the exceptions at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackpot,_Nevada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Wendover,_Nevada -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] Bug in tzdata2012c/northamerica 2x Idaho County in America/Los_Angeles
by Steve Jones May 21, 2012

May 21, 2012

At 05:03 5/21/2012, Ian Abbott wrote: >Except that Idaho City is in Boise County, which is covered by a >different rule, so maybe it's not referring to Idaho City after >all. It all depends which rule covers Idaho City. > >So which rule covers Idaho City, America/Los_Angeles or America/Boise? > >Whichever rule it is, I guess the comment(s) could be improved. Here is an image that shows Idaho County, Idaho City, and a magenta line indicating the path of the time zone border in that area: <http://ontimezone.com/images/idahocounty.gif>http://ontimezone.com/images/idahocounty.gif It might be be more accurate to say "northeastern three-quarters of Idaho county", given the portion of the America/Boise rule which juts northwards to the west of the Salmon River. Cheers, Steve Jones

2 1

Theory - proposal to delete the reference to population
by OvV_HN May 21, 2012

May 21, 2012

In reply to: [tz] Theory - proposal to delete the reference to population Tobias Conradi tobias.conradi at gmail.com Fri May 18 18:20:39 UTC 2012 http://home.tiscali.nl/~t876506/Multizones.html says "As soon as the territorial waters of a nation is reached, the clock is set to the local time of that (part of the) nation." Reply: Probably interesting to know: - What you referred to is my page (not interesting, but preliminary to the next). - The chapter about international waters is the result of a discussion on the TZ list a couple of years ago. So, that information is in fact peer reviewed. - The discussion was based on the renowned Bowditch publication The American Practical Navigator. In the chapter mentioned above a table and an algorithm can be found, that can be used to find a kinda logical time for an uninhabited zone. In my opinion: if an authority of an uninhabited island has defined a local time, the TZ database should have a zone designation, whether the island is uninhabited or not. The central place cannot be the largest inhabited place, but could be the geographic center of the island or a landmark of some kind (mountain top, abandoned station, etc.). The mere existence of an ISO code, a FIPS code, internet TLD, whatever, should be of no concern to TZ. Oscar van Vlijmen

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Re: [tz] Theory - proposal to delete the reference to population
by Tobias Conradi May 21, 2012

May 21, 2012

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Paul Eggert <eggert(a)cs.ucla.edu> wrote: > On 05/12/2012 04:08 AM, Tobias Conradi wrote: >> >> If two ships enter territorial waters of HM > > > They'll continue to do what they've always done, > which is keep their own times at the discretion > of their captains. Do you have any source, international treaty or so, to support your claim? If they get on land, would that change your claim, or would they observe what has been reported as official time for HM by Australian agencies? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Bug in tzdata2012c/northamerica 2x Idaho County in America/Los_Angeles
by Tobias Conradi May 21, 2012

May 21, 2012

tzdata2012c/northamerica ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica https://github.com/valodzka/tzdata/blame/master/northamerica 2007-08-20 tzdata2007g https://github.com/valodzka/tzdata/commit/4cd595118d4f623edd792ec341ac1bd60… traced back to http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2007-August/014494.html Paul Eggert eggert at CS.UCLA.EDU Fri Aug 17 22:56:11 UTC 2007 -------cite------- # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles ... # ... northern Idaho (Benewah,... # Idaho, ... , and Shoshone counties, # and the northern three-quarters of Idaho county) ... Zone America/Los_Angeles --------cite end----- -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

3 5

Uzbekistan - insufficient location desciption
by Tobias Conradi May 18, 2012

May 18, 2012

tzdata2012c/asia no location comment except # Uzbekistan for Asia/Samarkand Asia/Tashkent Also no other comment, telling where the Uzbekistan info comes from. tzdata2012c/zone.tab Asia/Samarkand west Uzbekistan Asia/Tashkent east Uzbekistan No definition for "West Uzbekistan" or "East Uzbekistan" found. Trying to improve: Asia/Samarkand per definition includes Samarkand Province, where Samarkand is located. "west Uzbekistan" if only contrasted by "east Uzbekistan" and using the map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Uzbekistan likely additionally refers to Karakalpakstan, Xorazm, Buxoro, Navoiy Uncertain remain Jizzax (north east), Qashqadaryo (south) and Surxondaryo (south). But since the two southern country subdivisions, if looked at as one unit, border Samarkand, they may be included in Asia/Samarkand. This leaves five provinces, with Jizzax six, for the Asia/Tashkent. If that is the case zone.tab could be improve by Asia/Tashkent east Uzbekistan (Andijon, Fergana, Namangan, Tashkent, Sirdaryo [, Jizzax]) -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 1

Theory - proposal to delete the reference to population
by Tobias Conradi May 18, 2012

May 18, 2012

References to population in tzcode2012b/Theory 1) "However, uninhabited ISO 3166 regions like Bouvet Island do not need locations, since local time is not defined there." 2) "Use UTC (with time zone abbreviation "zzz") for locations while uninhabited." ------- 1a) http://wikitravel.org/en/Bouvet_Island reports Olav Peak exists on Bouvet Island, without discussing a need for the peak. It is out of the scope of the tzdb as defined in the Theory file to decide on whether regions need locations. 1b) there is no definition of "uninhabited" German WP reports a team of people has been there after the 1970-01-01 cutoff point: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouvetinsel#cite_note-6 "Vom 24. Dezember 1978 bis zum 8. März 1979 hielt sich ein norwegisches Forschungsteam auf der Insel auf und führte biologische und geologische Forschungsarbeiten durch." There are more sources supporting the claim that it had been populated. 1c) There is no evidence that local time is not defined if a population is absent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukon-Koyukuk_Census_Area,_Alaska is mostly uninhabited but the whole area is observing UTC-09:00 according to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timezoneswest.PNG maybe covered by America/Anchorage Alaska Time but no further geographic description found HM as no zone, but http://www.timegenie.com/country.time/hm "To ensure accuracy of information, timegenie.com contacted the Australian Antarctic Division [http://www.antarctica.gov.au/] . On January 3, 2005, a senior official confirmed that Heard Island and McDonald Islands are UTC/GMT +5 hours." 2a) A location changes its UTC offset when people move out or in? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Chamberlin_(Alaska) on UTC most of the year? A ship landing on an island, changes the UTC offset observed on that island? The time a meteorite lands on island depends on whether people have been there or not? 1+2) Violate tzcode2012b/Theory: ----- Scope of the tz database ----- The tz database attempts to record the history and predicted future of all computer-based clocks that track civil time. To represent this data, the world is partitioned into regions whose clocks all agree about time stamps that occur after the somewhat-arbitrary cutoff point of the POSIX Epoch (1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC). 1+2) Are inconsistently applied. Uninhabited locations are treated differently, depending on whether they are located in countries that have been inhabited during all time between 1970-01-01 and 2012-05-12 or not. If Bouvet Island would be part of TF, it could be included in a zone but since it is covered by BV it is not. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Theory - typo - simplifes -> simplyfies
by Tobias Conradi May 18, 2012

May 18, 2012

tzcode2012b/Theory Indicate to humans as to where that region is. This simplifes use. simplifes -> simplyfies -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Infrastructure - ftp timestamps for .gz not showing creation time
by Tobias Conradi May 18, 2012

May 18, 2012

ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/releases/ failing to show the timestamps for archive creation time, showing 2011-10-13 00:00:00 instead until release of tzcode2011i.tar.gz and tzdata2011m.tar.gz inclusive. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Terminology mismatch in tzcode file format manpage / header
by Andrew Paprocki May 18, 2012

May 18, 2012

The file format is described with these fields: .I tzh_ttisgmtcnt The number of UTC/local indicators stored in the file. .I tzh_ttisgmtcnt UTC/local indicators, each stored as a one-byte value; they tell whether the transition times associated with local time types were specified as UTC or local time, and are used when a time zone file is used in handling POSIX-style time zone environment variables. A number of variables in localtime.c, tzfile.h, and zic.c dealing with these fields have variations of this "isgmt" substring. This presents a naming conflict because technically GMT and UTC are two different things. I find the inconsistent naming creeping into functions which deal with the file format. I would like to prevent variations of the string "GMT" from winding up in API names since the definition of the field refers to UTC. I propose wholesale replacing of the "isgmt" substring in tzcode files with "isutc" so that the file format fields are named consistently with their definition. If absolutely necessary, a #define can be used in tzfile.h so that code referencing tzh_ttisgmtcnt will still compile. -Andrew

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