- tz - lists.iana.org

EST/EDT vs AEST/AEDT in AQ
by Tobias Conradi April 11, 2013

April 11, 2013

To use "EST/EDT" instead of "AEST/AEDT" in Antartica as is by this patch: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2013-April/018994.html and EST as is done by the IANA time zone database, could be a source of future confusion and discussion. Especially if other countries that have an EST/EDT abbreviated time inherited their abbreviations to AQ-zones. This is a vote to use AEST/AEDT, or switch completely to Internationalized time point unique abbreviations. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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[PATCH 2/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Timothy Arceri April 10, 2013

April 10, 2013

--- antarctica 2013-02-21 07:40:23.000000000 +0000 +++ antarctica_new 2013-04-10 00:50:55.000000000 +0000 @@ -54,32 +54,32 @@ Rule ChileAQ 2012 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 S # These rules are stolen from the `australasia' file. -Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Jan 1 0:01 1:00 - -Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Mar 25 2:00 0 - -Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Jan 1 2:00 1:00 - -Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Mar 29 2:00 0 - -Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Sep 27 2:00 1:00 - -Rule AusAQ 1943 1944 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 - -Rule AusAQ 1943 only - Oct 3 2:00 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1967 only - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1968 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1968 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1969 1971 - Mar Sun>=8 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1982 1983 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1984 1986 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1986 only - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1987 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 1987 only - Oct Sun>=22 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1988 1990 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1991 1999 - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 1991 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 2001 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 - -Rule ATAQ 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 - -Rule ATAQ 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 - +Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Jan 1 0:01 1:00 D +Rule AusAQ 1917 only - Mar 25 2:00 0 S +Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Jan 1 2:00 1:00 D +Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Mar 29 2:00 0 S +Rule AusAQ 1942 only - Sep 27 2:00 1:00 D +Rule AusAQ 1943 1944 - Mar lastSun 2:00 0 S +Rule AusAQ 1943 only - Oct 3 2:00 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1967 only - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1968 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1968 1985 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1969 1971 - Mar Sun>=8 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1972 only - Feb lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1973 1981 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1982 1983 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1984 1986 - Mar Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1986 only - Oct Sun>=15 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1987 1990 - Mar Sun>=15 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 1987 only - Oct Sun>=22 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1988 1990 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1991 1999 - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 1991 2005 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 2000 only - Aug lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 2001 max - Oct Sun>=1 2:00s 1:00 D +Rule ATAQ 2006 only - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 2007 only - Mar lastSun 2:00s 0 S +Rule ATAQ 2008 max - Apr Sun>=1 2:00s 0 S # Argentina - year-round bases # Belgrano II, Confin Coast, -770227-0343737, since 1972-02-05 @@ -167,9 +167,9 @@ 5:00 - MAWT Zone Antarctica/Macquarie 0 - zzz 1911 10:00 - EST 1916 Oct 1 2:00 - 10:00 1:00 EST 1917 Feb - 10:00 AusAQ EST 1967 - 10:00 ATAQ EST 2010 Apr 4 3:00 + 10:00 1:00 EDT 1917 Feb + 10:00 AusAQ E%sT 1967 + 10:00 ATAQ E%sT 2010 Apr 4 3:00 11:00 - MIST # Macquarie Island Time # References: # <a href="http://www.antdiv.gov.au/aad/exop/sfo/casey/casey_aws.html">

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Patched file australasia - time point unique abbreviations for Australia
by Tobias Conradi April 10, 2013

April 10, 2013

A public domain patched australasia file can be found via: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database The new abbreviations are: AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT and currently without "A" prefix: CWST/CWDT - Eucla LHST/LHDT/LHHT - Lord Howe The letters before the final T mean: S - no daylight saving D - one hour daylight saving H - half hour daylight saving Error reports are welcome. Maybe someone can create a patch file. Some may favor using internationally disambiguated abbreviations, since AE might be interpreted as United Arab Emirates, AC as Ascension Island and AW as Aruba. It could also be desired to have constant length. Such internationally time point unique abbreviations could be used by CLDR for localization. The format could be "<country code><location><type>T" and a set for Australia, covering - except for LMTs (LMT=local mean time) - all times in the IANA time zone database could be: AUEST/AUEDT - East AUCST/AUCDT - Central AUWST/AUWDT - West AUUST/AUUDT - Eucla AUHST/AUHDT/AUHHT - Lord Howe -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 9, 2013

April 9, 2013

So I see the patronising attitude of the TZ database coordinators rages on :-) It has been said that their are inconsistencies in both Australian Federal & State legislation and common usage. This point can be conceded even though it is based on an assessment far removed from the actual situation. It has also been stated that the aim is to use labels and abbreviations for timezones that are most commonly used and understood. A good point as the intention is to make sure they are widely understood (FYI irony). However the basis for the decision to use the ambiguous terms and abbreviations 'Eastern Standard Time'; 'EST' and 'Eastern Summer Time'; 'EST' is a highly unscientific internet search and the paternalistic opinions of the coordinators. As there appears to be a fondness for search engine results in decision making why not try this one: australia EDT site:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/ Take a look at the number of times that, mostly Australians, have asked for the terms and abbreviations used for Australian time zones (esp. *D*aylight Saving Time) to be disambiguated. You might also look at the amount of frustration and acrimony the one-eyed, condescending responses of the coordinators and mostly non-Australian list members cause and consider how often this stops people from bothering to voice opinions and endeavouring to resolve issues. ----- On a lighter note and at the risk of hindering my own argument I'm surprised none of you jokers from out-of-town have pointed out 'ESST'; 'Eastern Standard Summer Time'. "Eastern Standard Summer Time" "ESST" site:.au about 1,810 results PS An interesting video from the 1970's Four Corners program on the ABC (Australia's national broadcaster, ICYDK) on the introduction of "Daylight Saving" in Tasmania. Note the consistent use of that term "Daylight Saving", "Summer Time" is never mentioned (FYI It's a predominantly British term) and take a look at the flight attendant's bonnet! http://www.abc.net.au/archives/80days/stories/2012/01/19/3415208.htm Peter Stagg

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Letter/s for half hour daylight saving
by Tobias Conradi April 9, 2013

April 9, 2013

I just discovered that there is some precedence to use different lettering for half hour saving time. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/australasia Rule Cook 1978 only - Nov 12 0:00 0:30 HS Rule Cook 1979 1991 - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 - Rule Cook 1979 1990 - Oct lastSun 0:00 0:30 HS # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Rarotonga -10:39:04 - LMT 1901 # Avarua -10:30 - CKT 1978 Nov 12 # Cook Is Time -10:00 Cook CK%sT So the recent LHHT did only deviate insofar as to use one letter (H) instead of two (HS). I added HS to the IANA time zone database documentation of abbreviations hosted at anna.info : http://anna.info/x/wiki/w/index.php?title=IANA_time_zone_database&diff=82&o… -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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TimeZine Info Problem
by dcernosia＠aol.com April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Guys, Ran into a little problem when I tried to process the latest TimeZone files ... a few rules, such as the one listed below, didn't process correctly ... I think there are extra tabs separating the data ... have you had any other complaints? Morocco 2013 only - Jul 9 3:00 0 Morocco 2013 only - Aug 8 2:00 1:00 S Morocco 2016 only - Jun 7 3:00 0 Morocco 2016 only - Jul 7 2:00 1:00 S Morocco 2019 only - May 6 3:00 0 - Morocco 2019 only - Jun 5 2:00 1:00 S Morocco 2022 only - May 3 2:00 1:00 S Thanks, - Dennis

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Rule based management vs TZ Coordinator will or voting / fork reason
by Tobias Conradi April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Emails such as the recent ones about ambiguous time zone acronyms can be avoided if the management of the database would be more rule based. It seems there is no rule prohibiting one abbreviation from referring to two offsets within one country at a given point in time. So adding a rule to the Theory file prohibiting this would be one step. The other issue is, that if rules exists, e.g. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory ----- Scope of the tz database ----- The tz database attempts to record the history and predicted future of all computer-based clocks that track civil time. To represent this data, the world is partitioned into regions whose clocks all agree about time stamps that occur after the somewhat-arbitrary cutoff point of the POSIX Epoch (1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC). that they are also enforced. But the TZ Coordinator is sometimes not enforcing them, as the Siberia bug (Asia/Tomsk and Asia/Barnaul patch was provided to the list) shows. Arbitrary application of rules can be a fork reason. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Thanks to David et al for taking this initiative. In respons to the specific questions posed: - would the preference be to preceed the abbreviations with A, or not? I think the 'A' is most apropriate and is in keeping with my understanding of conventioned followed in Australia. It would also be very easy to deal with in the situation where a programer may want to drop the 'A' - historically, how far back should we apply the patch to the abbreviations. I'm in favour of retro-fitting it to the start of Daylight Savings in Australia (sate-based dependancies taken into account). After all its a bit like BC and AD. If you we're wandering around in 200BC you had no idea it was 200BC but today we would not refer to it as anything else (unless you don't use the christian calendar, of course). ________________________________________ Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2013 21:19:36 -0400 From: David Patte ? <dpatte(a)relativedata.com> Subject: Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] To: tz(a)iana.org Message-ID: <51621B28.4030105(a)relativedata.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed A group of us from the list have decided to put together a proposed patch to change the Australian abbreviations to S/D abbreviations. We are hoping, that the maintainers of tz decide to implement the patch in the tz database. In the mean time: - would the preference be to preceed the abbreviations with A, or not? - historically, how far back should we apply the patch to the abbreviations. We will submit the patch to the list for review, and hope it is implemented. But if it is not, we have decided to fork tz and provide a new distribution with the new abbreviations applied. David Patte Relative Data, Inc. _______________________________________________

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Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - I guess it depends on how you cut the cloth: search: legislation "standard time" "daylight saving" site:.gov.au About 25,600 results (0.21 seconds) search: legislation "standard time" "summer time" site:.gov.au About 15,600 results (0.14 seconds) Yes in some cases you will find the following: 'daylight saving time ("summer time")'; that to me supports the notion of "daylight saving" ahead of "summer time". N.B. ".gov.au" searches all state and federal official sites as they all use this domain. (e.g. Federal = just .gov.au, State i.e. Victoria = .vic.gov.au ). I've noticed through my various searches of government websites that whilst the legislative instruments for time may often use the term "Summer Time" (Vic & NSW only) their public facing information sites use the term "Daylight Saving". http://www.nsw.gov.au/daylight-saving http://www.business.vic.gov.au/operating-a-business/how-to-start/trading-ho… http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/policy/daylightsavings http://www.cmd.act.gov.au/communication/holidays http://www.safework.sa.gov.au/show_page.jsp?id=2675 WA, QLD and NT do not have daylight savings but still: http://www.premiers.qld.gov.au/publications/categories/reports/daylight-sav… http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/parliament/bills.nsf/BillProgressPopup?open… And yes these are cherry-picked - to the most part these ar all public facing official government pages communicating to the Australian populous about "Daylight Saving" not "Summer Time" - if "Summer Time" was lingua franca, don't you think they (we) would use it? Peter Stagg

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Please remove ambiguous time zone abreviations for Australia [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Robert Greenwood April 8, 2013

April 8, 2013

Hi all, I know this might sound like a broken record to some, but could we please remove ambiguous time zone abreviations for Australia? I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to keep the Australian zones as EST/EST and CST/CST rather than EST/EDT and CST/CDT or AEST/AEDT and ACST/ACDT. Stating that there in no need to change it is nonsensical. It is obvious that using the abbreviation Eastern Standard Time (EST) and Eastern Summer Time (EST) is useless at best. The fact that if you have time zones you need them to be unambiguous is self evident, otherwise why have them. Stating that there are conflicting messages from state and federal government regarding the use of time zones in Australia is misleading. No State or federal government proposes the use of EST/EST and CST/CST as the correct usage of time zone abbreviations. Whilst there is some inconsistency in the usage of AEDT/EDT/EDST within those sites when they explicitly state which time zone should be used it is AEST/AEDT and ACST/ACDT. Finally, the arguments around the usage of Eastern/Central Summer Time (EST/CST) being the status Quo amongst Australians based off the survey conducted in the following linked is flawed: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-October/018364.html searching for EDT or EST by themselves will return a number of things that have no relation to time zones. Similarly, "Eastern Summer Time" and "Eastern Daylight Time" do not necessarily relate to the usage of a particular abbreviation. Searching for the number of hits for the following strings gives a better understanding of the usage of the relevant time zone acronyms in Australia: Google results for au domain: 45,100: "Eastern Standard Time (EST)" 82,400: "Eastern Standard Time (AEST)" 34,900: "Eastern Summer Time (EST)" 117: "Eastern Summer Time (AEST)" 72,100: "Eastern Daylight Time (EDT)" 218,000: "Eastern Daylight Time (AEDT)" 387,000: "Central Standard Time (CST)" 8,030: "Central Standard Time (ACST)" 3: "Central Summer Time (CST)" 3: "Central Summer Time (ACST)" 22,300: "Central Daylight Time (CDT)" 1,460: "Central Daylight Time (ACDT)" Here we are only looking at cases where the time zone abbreviation has been defined. These results show that the abbreviation for Daylight time EDT/AEDT/CDT/ACDT is overwhelmingly greater than the usage of the abbreviation for Summer time EST/AEST/CST/ACST. Furthermore, varients of the search for "Eastern Daylight Saving/s Time (A/EDT)" give another ~3,000 hits and variants of "Eastern Daylight Saving/s Time (A/EDST)" only give ~ 500 results. However, a cursory glance still shows that many of these results are not related to Australia. So this method is still flawed but I cannot think of a better way of searching for the status Quo. Please change the time zone abbreviations in Australia to EST/EDT and CST/CDT or AEST/AEDT and ACST/ACDT. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Robert Greenwood | Tsunami Modelling Support National Meteorological and Oceanographic Centre Bureau of Meteorology GPO Box 1289 Melbourne VIC 3001 Level 11, 700 Collins Street, Docklands VIC 3008 Tel: +61 3 9616 8455 | r.greenwood(a)bom.gov.au<mailto:r.greenwood@bom.gov.au> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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White House petitioned to end DST
by Arthur David Olson April 4, 2013

April 4, 2013

An electronic petition to "Eliminate the bi-annual time change caused by Daylight Savings [sic] Time" appears at... https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/eliminate-bi-annual-time-change-c… ...and as of this writing has about 6,000 of the 100,000 electronic signatures required for an official White House response. @dashdashado

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How to compute the moment of the next DST change
by Simon Perreault April 4, 2013

April 4, 2013

Dear time experts, I want to write a cron job or similar that activates one week prior to daylight saving time changes. (Or, more generically, one week prior to any time jumps, for any reason, DST or else.) Any pointers? I have looked at the usual places: POSIX time functions, various date/time modules on CPAN, etc. Nothing seems to do that computation. Do I need to parse the tz database myself? Thanks, Simon

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Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect
by Timothy Arceri April 4, 2013

April 4, 2013

Hi All, I’d like to bring this very important issue back up for discussion. I’m going to attempt to address the reason why this change is needed as clearly as possible while addressing the concerns from previous discussions. The issue is with both EST (Tasmania, Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland) and CST (South Australia, Northern Territory) It's well past time the Australian abbreviations were updated to reflect the current terms and usage. Stop the confusion and use the abbreviations recommended by the Australian government to try to avoid this mess. http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time#daylightsaving As others have posted I’m not too concerned about the 'A' but as you will see differentiating between daylight savings times is extremely important when you are using this information in a system that crosses state boundaries and in our case an emergency warning system. Previous Post: --------------------- “I'm not a big fan of change for change's sake; once the database is one way I like to leave it alone. For phrases, the new statistics seem to be quite strong; for whatever reason, Australians seem to be voting with their feet (or fingers) and are adopting American terminology with an "Australian", when the time zone names are spelled out. For abbreviations, it's not clear whether "AEDT" or "EDT" is more common, though I suppose "AEDT" has a slight edge. I'd like to hear more from Australian correspondents on this before thinking about specific changes, though.” - Paul Eggert (26 Aug 2008) I don’t think anyone here cares deeply enough about time zone abbreviations enough to be arguing about change for change’s sake. The fact is the ambiguity of the current abbreviations for time zones is causing real world problems. Previous Post: --------------------- “Alphabetic time zone abbreviations should not be used as unique identifiers for UTC offsets as they are ambiguous in practice. For example, "EST" denotes 5 hours behind UTC in English-speaking North America, but it denotes 10 or 11 hours ahead of UTC in Australia; and French-speaking North Americans prefer "HNE" to "EST".” - Paul Eggert (26 Aug 2008) The issue is not that the identifiers are not unique worldwide. The problem is that they are not unique to bordering states in the same country which run along the same time zone. Most apply daylight savings time, one (Queensland) does not, this is what causes the confusion. Simply using UTC +10 or UTC +11 is not good enough as the general public has no idea what UTC is. Previous Post: --------------------- “I have always assumed that the common abbreviation (EST for standard time, and EST for summer time) was a very deliberate choice, chosen so that if it ever was appropriate to specify a time with an abbreviated zone name, then the time specified would apply year around, which is almost always what is intended” - Robert Elz (5 Jan 2009) If all states that used EST applied daylight saving then this would be convenient but as stated above they do not. The problem can be seen in the delivery example where it would appear an Australian company does delivery’s via time travel. Previous Post: --------------------- “Queensland don't have Daylight Saving Time. New South Wales (across the border from Queensland) do have Daylight Saving Time. Due to the fact that the Olsen data uses EST for both 'Eastern Summer Time' (New South Wales) and 'Eastern Standard Time' (Queensland), a delivery from New South Wales to Queensland can have a pickup time of 10.30am EST and a delivery time of 10.00am EST. We like to be efficient but we're not that good. System users only see the EST and get horribly confused.” - Mick Johnston (26 Aug 2008) So obviously I’m pushing this for my own reason also. We currently use unix based systems to produce tsunami arrival times for the Australian Tsunami Warning System. This information is displayed on a public webpage (and as described above cannot use UTC convention). The issue comes into play when listing arrival times for the east coast of Australia, simply listing all arrival times as EST will obviously cause confusion especially for towns located near the border of NSW/QLD where it would appear to take a tsunami an extra hour to arrive only a couple of kilometres away. Currently we cannot use the default unix time zone commands and must rely on the use of a script to parse the time zone files and produce EST/EDT abbreviations. Obviously the ideal solution is to fix the EST/CST abbreviations once and for all so the all Australians can finally have software that produces time zones abbreviations that can be read by the general public and be used without having to provide added context. Note: In our organisation alone this issue has been brought up independently by multiple areas. Timothy Arceri

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Acronyms - localization - more CLDR failures
by Tobias Conradi April 3, 2013

April 3, 2013

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Derick Rethans <tz(a)derickrethans.nl> wrote: >> I disagree. I think it's natural to want to abbreviate, especially >> with things that are repeated a lot. > > But that has to be done in a localized way anyway. With the default local being English in the IANA time zone database. > In the Netherlands, > nobody uses CEST or CET, but rather MEZT and MET... Sure? https://www.google.com/search?q=cet+central+site%3Anl And CLDR does not even have MEZT and MET for the Dutch language as you claim is exclusively used in the Netherlands: http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/nl.xml <metazone type="Europe_Central"> <long> <generic>Midden-Europese tijd</generic> <standard>Midden-Europese standaardtijd</standard> <daylight>Midden-Europese zomertijd</daylight> </long> <short> <generic>CET</generic> <standard>CET</standard> <daylight>CEST</daylight> </short> </metazone> > but the tz database > doesn't have those either. The localization and naming is done very well > in CLDR. Counter evidence (Failure on Mexico / Tiempo del Pacifico) has been shown. > I have implemented the Date/Time support (utilizing this > database) in PHP, and have given many presentations about the subject. Ever in front of Mexicans showing Spanish localization for Mexico or in front of Dutch speakers showing Dutch localization for Central Europe? > I > always hammer in two things: .... never > rely or use an abbreviation for anything. Why not? CET in the context of Europe always refers to "Central European Time", doesn't it? Same may go for WAT in Africa and West Africa Time. As seen with AxT representing AxST/AxDT in Australia, the acronyms are not all usable in the IANA time zone database, but duplicating information and inventing new IDs like Europe_Central (=CET), America_Pacific (US and CA = America?) as is done in http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml seems like creating a field for having more bugs. Let's check Shanghai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China In mainland China standard time is called Beijing Time (北京时间) https://www.google.com/search?q="北京时间" ~ 57 mio results http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml <timezone type="Asia/Shanghai"> <usesMetazone mzone="China"/> </timezone> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/zh.xml <metazone type="China"> <long> <generic>中国时间</generic> <standard>中国标准时间</standard> <daylight>中国夏令时间</daylight> </long> </metazone> 中国 = China https://www.google.com/search?q="中国时间" ~ 1 mio results https://www.google.com/search?q="中国标准时间" ~ 230 000 results http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/en.xml <metazone type="China"> <long> <generic>China Time</generic> <standard>China Standard Time</standard> <daylight>China Daylight Time</daylight> </long> </metazone> No acronyms at all! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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A failure - CLDR as an IANA time zone database extension for Mexico
by Tobias Conradi April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

Tiempo del Pacifico http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zonas_horarias_de_M%C3%A9xico#Tiempo_del_Pac.C… Tiempo del Pacifico -6/-7 confirmed by http://www.cenam.mx/hora_oficial/ Tiempo del Pacífico = UTC(CNM) – (N+1) Donde N es 6 horas para el horario de invierno y 5 horas para el horario de verano. ==Test 1 - Tijuana== The only Pacific that I can find in http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/es.xml outside the Area/Locations names are in that section: <metazone type="America_Pacific"> <long> <generic>Hora del Pacífico</generic> <standard>Hora estándar del Pacífico</standard> <daylight>Hora de verano del Pacífico</daylight> </long> </metazone> An example zone for America_Pacific from http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml mapZone other="America_Pacific" territory="MX" type="America/Tijuana"/ Look America/Tijuana up in ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab America/Tijuana US Pacific Time - Baja California near US border ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica -8:00 Mexico P%sT 2010 -8:00 US P%sT ==Example 2 - Hermosillo== ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab America/Hermosillo Mountain Standard Time - Sonora -7:00 Mexico M%sT 1999 -7:00 - MST That is "Tiempo del Pacífico", using http://www.cenam.mx/hora_oficial/ Tiempo del Pacífico = UTC(CNM) – (N+1) Donde N es 6 horas para el horario de invierno .... http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml <timezone type="America/Hermosillo"> <usesMetazone to="1970-01-01 08:00" mzone="America_Pacific"/> <usesMetazone from="1970-01-01 08:00" mzone="America_Mountain"/> </timezone> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/es.xml <metazone type="America_Mountain"> <long> <generic>Hora de las Montañas</generic> <standard>Hora estándar de Montaña</standard> <daylight>Hora de verano de Montaña</daylight> </long> </metazone> -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Scheduling - use case for acronyms
by Tobias Conradi April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

Was: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Russ Allbery <rra(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > Humans don't need the abbreviation and don't care. False - as numerous emails and usages demonstrate. > They either schedule > the meeting in local time That might be unknown or ambiguous. > or in the current time in some other time zone Exactly, and that would be communicated how, in a brief manner - as Mark used in "Mondays at 8:00 PT" > (or possibly in UTC) UTC might be unknown at time of scheduling or not decipherable by the receiver. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Blame it on Caesar, talk from PyCon 2013
by Stuart Bishop April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

People on this list may be interested in this talk from PyCon 2013, available on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBKqRhn0ekM In it Lennart Regebro provides an overview of historical calendars before moving onto the modern real world issues developers face when dealing with calendaring. -- Stuart Bishop <stuart(a)stuartbishop.net> http://www.stuartbishop.net/

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Australian Timezone Abreviations (Daylight Savings Time) [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
by Peter Stagg March 31, 2013

March 31, 2013

I have resently had the clasic issue at work with strftime returning only EST, CST (Standard Time) etc. as the timezone abreviation for Australian time zones even when where in daylight savings time. Given that the Australian Government now has offical advice as to what these abreviations should be <http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time#daylightsaving> would it not be possible to include them in the data now? Regards, Peter Stagg | Web Developer, Radar Systems Bureau of Meteorology Australian Meteorological Data Information Services System (AMDISS) Bureau of Meteorology GPO Box 1289 Melbourne VIC 3001 Level 6, 700 Collins Street, Docklands VIC 3008 Tel: +61 3 9669 4232 | Fax: +61 3 9669 4128 www.bom.gov.au

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Ukraine time changes
by Michael Hustwait March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Hi there As a reader of your website I understand ukraine is due to scrap dst from end march 2013 and stay on winter trime permanently Is this still the case? Regards Michael Hustwait Watford London England

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Praguay DST Update
by Juan Carlos YJ. Lin March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Dear Paul Eggert I will like to contribute to update Paraguay DST timezone info. At 2013-b (Released 2013-03-11 ) Paraguay DST is set as no permanent change. Since there is a decree 10.780 ( 2013-03-15 ) that make the change permanent, the database should be updated. Summary # From Juan Carlos YJ Lin ( 2013-03-25 ) # A decree by President was issued in Paraguay (no. 10780) on 2013-03-15 that changed the # DST method to be from the first Sunday in October to the fourth Sunday in March (60 minutes) # So the change is permanent. Attached the decree pdf issued by Paraguay President You can find it out in by searching 10780 decree at http://www.presidencia.gov.py/decretos.php Juan Carlos Lin Unisoft S.A. +595-993-288330 --------------------------------------------------- "Antes de imprimir, recuC)rdese de su compromiso con el Medio Ambiente" "Aviso: Este mensaje es dirigido para su destinatario y contiene informaciones que no pueden ser usadas por otras personas que no sean su(s) destinatario(s). La retransmisiC3n del contenido no estC! autorizada fuera del contexto de su envC-o y a quien corresponde. El uso no autorizado de la informaciC3n en este mensaje se halla penado por las leyes vigentes en todo el mundo. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor bC3rrala y notifique al remitente en la brevedad posible. El contenido de este mensaje no es responsabilidad de la Empresa y debe ser atribuido siempre a su autor. Gracias."

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Paraguay DST Changes
by Juan Carlos YJ. Lin March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Dear Paul Eggert I will like to contribute to update Paraguay DST timezone info. At 2013-b (Released 2013-03-11) Paraguay DST is set as no permanent change. Since there is a decree 10.780 (2013-03-15) that make the change permanent, the database should be updated. Summary # From Juan Carlos YJ Lin (2013-03-25) # A decree by President was issued in Paraguay (no. 10780) on 2013-03-15 that changed the # DST method to be from the first Sunday in October to the fourth Sunday in March (60 minutes) # So the change is permanent. Attached the decree pdf issued by Paraguay President You can find it out in by searching 10780 decree at http://www.presidencia.gov.py/decretos.php JUAN CARLOS YJ LIN Tecnología de la Información MONALISA Internacional SA Boquerón 310 Ciudad del Este – PARAGUAY Tel + 595 61 500 645 Fax + 595 61 512 695 lin(a)monalisa.com.py www.monalisa.com.py --------------------------------------------------- "Antes de imprimir, recuérdese de su compromiso con el Medio Ambiente" "Aviso: Este mensaje es dirigido para su destinatario y contiene informaciones que no pueden ser usadas por otras personas que no sean su(s) destinatario(s). La retransmisión del contenido no está autorizada fuera del contexto de su envío y a quien corresponde. El uso no autorizado de la información en este mensaje se halla penado por las leyes vigentes en todo el mundo. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor bórrala y notifique al remitente en la brevedad posible. El contenido de este mensaje no es responsabilidad de la Empresa y debe ser atribuido siempre a su autor. Gracias."

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Turkey DST time
by Serkan Kaba March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Hi, The time at night where Turkey switches to DST is different from rest of the Europe. Please check http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/clockchange.html?n=19&year=2013 for details. Regards, Serkan

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Re: [tz] Turkey DST time
by Serkan Kaba March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Merhaba, Yes apparently that's the case. Thanks for validating this. There are plans for fixing the timezone to UTC+3 in 2014 but we'll see. Regards, Serkan ________________________________ From: Even Scharning <tzdb(a)time.is> To: Serkan Kaba <serkan_kaba(a)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [tz] Turkey DST time Merhaba Serkan, Turkey is constantly one hour ahead of most of Europe, but the DST switch occurs simultaneously in Turkey and Europe. The rules in the Time Zone Database are correct. This page illustrates the upcoming DST switch: http://time.is/compare/0000_31_Mar_2013_UTC/CET/Turkey Sincerely, Even Scharning Time.is - exact time, any time zone http://time.is/ On 2013-03-25 7:18, Serkan Kaba wrote: > Hi, > > The time at night where Turkey switches to DST is different from rest > of the Europe. Please check > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/clockchange.html?n=19&year=2013 > [1] for details. > > Regards, > Serkan

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Chile DST
by Carlos Moffat March 22, 2013

March 22, 2013

Hi Guys, It looks like the announcment of 2013-B has Chile going from GMT-3 to GMT-4 on April 23rd and the opposite on Sep 2nd. However, the correct dates are April 28th and Sep 7th. An official source for this stuff in Chile is the Navy's "Hora Oficial" website: http://www.horaoficial.cl/cambio.htm All the best, Carlos

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Missing functionality (general question) - C11 functions, Localization, etc...
by random832＠fastmail.us March 21, 2013

March 21, 2013

In working on a windows/MSVC port of tzcode, I have run into the issue of functions that MSVCRT implements that tzcode does not, and the question of how much of it to implement. Part of the reason you haven't heard anything more from me even though I've had the code itself building for weeks is that it's hard to really determine when I can declare it "finished". Some of it are newer standard functions (wcstime from C95, localtime_s from C11), some are functions created by microsoft that no-one else has (_dstbias to match timezone and daylight, _mkgmtime which is their name for timegm, _wctime which is a wide character version of ctime), some of it is an artifact of them simultaneously supporting 32- and 64-bit time_t, and some of it are old unix functions (e.g. ftime) that MS happens to implement and tzcode does not. Some of these functions are problematic to implement in a third-party library. The means by which localtime_s and others in that family are meant to call their error handlers is not specified in C11, and MSVC uses a different (and nonstandard even though the standard was proposed by microsoft) mechanism from slibc. There's also miscellaneous other bits of missing functionality. strftime provides some localization functionality for months and weekdays, but not for e.g. %E and %O or for timezone abbreviations. Also, since the tzdata file format itself contains no provision for localization, I can't think of any C implementation that _does_ implement localized timezone abbreviations (I think there are some in other languages that use the tz data in combination with the CLDR data) As an aside, support for localized timezone abbreviations might be a solution to the AEST/EST half of the australian timezone debate. I get the impression (based on a comment in the section on Canadian timezones) that it was decided in 1994 that localization would be someone else's problem, and this was never revisited, nor actually became anyone else's problem. More than this, my main question is - what is the role of tzcode - the library functions, that is, not the tools - itself? Is it simply a reference implementation, to be used by libc maintainers and integrated into their libraries as they see fit? Is it meant to be used as a drop-in replacement for the system libc's time functions by application developers who need consistent timezone handling? In short - is there a roadmap for adding new functionality to tzcode, and/or is there any reason _not_ to do so besides not having anyone volunteering to work on it (I can look at it, but I don't want to if it's going to be rejected, or if there's no point) -- Random832

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