- tz - lists.iana.org

time zone abbreviations - uniqueness and meaning
by Tobias Conradi May 25, 2012

May 25, 2012

was: Re: [tz] Propose new zone for Crozet Islands On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Philip Newton <philip.newton(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Tobias Conradi > <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> The rule in the Theory file can easier lead to double assignments of >> abbreviations > > I don't think a particular effort is made to make the abbreviations be > unique I don't know how you define "particular". The provision to use ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes for several of them leads to several of them being unique. IIRC there have been emails on the mailing list caring about uniqueness, asking for assignment of another abbreviation to avoid ambiguity. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/australasia contains a longer text by Paul Eggert 2001-04-05 about uniqueness. > or even particularly meaningful. I don't know how you define "particularly". ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory ----- Outline ----- Time and date functions Scope of the tz database Names of time zone rule files Time zone abbreviations Calendrical issues Time and time zones on Mars .... one of six main sections. The section "Time zone abbreviations" contains several rules. They all derive the abbreviation from some other string related to the time zone. > The main identifier is the > "Europe/Berlin" type name, that is the IANA time zone name. IANA time zones are "cross year". > not the "CE(S)T" type one. that is the IANA abbreviation for the non-IANA, the "real world" time zone. One can try to achieve uniqueness of the latter in any given year. The two uniquenesses can be achieved independently. But indeed there are some that are not unique, e.g.: * IST ** India ** Israel (Ephraim Silverberg 1988 invention, even happy about ambiguity: "I am happy to share timezone abbreviations with India, high on my favorite-country list (and not only because my wife's family is from India" ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia ) * EST ** Australia ** US * CST ** Australia ** US * AST ** Arabia (Eggert invention 2006-03-22 ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia) ** Aruba, Curacao, Trinidad and Tobago * GST ** Gulf (Eggert invention 2006-03-22 ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia) ** South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands Also ICT Indochina (Eggert invention 2006-03-22 ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/asia) IC is a reserved ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 element for the Canary Islands. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Sascha Wildner, asking about working privately and about patching, being on the wrong mailing list
by Tobias Conradi May 24, 2012

May 24, 2012

was: time zone abbreviations - uniqueness and meaning On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Sascha Wildner <saw(a)online.de> wrote: > On Thu, 24 May 2012 12:11:32 +0200, Tobias Conradi > <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> was: Re: [tz] Propose new zone for Crozet Islands >> >> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Philip Newton <philip.newton(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Tobias Conradi >>> <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The rule in the Theory file can easier lead to double assignments of >>>> abbreviations >>> >>> >>> I don't think a particular effort is made to make the abbreviations be >>> unique >> >> I don't know how you define "particular". > > > Well then look it up in a dictionary. I am not aware of an online dictionary by Philip Newton. > How about just working out all your little "proposals" privately I don't know how you define privately here. But you are welcome to work out my proposals privately by whatever definition pleases you. > and posting > a _patch_ to tzdata* like it is good practice? I don't know what tzdata* is. Your definition of "good practice" unknown to me. > I for one will subscribe to the announce list As was announced people that are subscribed to tz get the messages that are send to the announce list too. Maybe you want to get the messages twice? > because I'm really getting > tired of your seemingly endless, annoying dribble. Mirror mirror on the wall. > Thanks to everyone except Tobias and his little "fan club" for keeping the > list low volume and friendly for a long time. http://www.iana.org/time-zones reads "A higher volume discussion list used for discussing proposals for updates to the Database." So maybe you just subscribed to the wrong mailing list. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Steve Jones May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

At 06:00 5/22/2012, Tobias Conradi wrote: > > The Nevada/Idaho state line is the official border, >Not according to >http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=9de43ec56f3779d6aa… Apologies, I mistakenly thought it was clear I was referring to the official vs. observed boundary in the area my post was concerned with, Owyhee NV. It hadn't occurred to me that someone could misconstrue the words "The Nevada/Idaho state line" to refer to time zone borders Nevada shares with states other than Idaho. Cheers, Steve Jones

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Proposal for new zone: America/WestWendover
by Tobias Conradi May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

America/WestWendover covering the City of West Wendover, Nevada currently in America/Detroit According to ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica 8.54 ---start---- # From Rives McDow (2000-08-30): ... # West Wendover, NV (from PST TO MST) ... 1999-10 ---end---- This has already been reported in 2000. Area was on Pacific Time. In 1999 a proposal was made to change it to Mountain Time http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1999-07-26/html/99-19041.htm This was enacted http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1999-10-21/html/99-27240.htm According to http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=9de43ec56f3779d6aa… ---start--------------- as of May 18, 2012 § 71.9 Boundary line between mountain and Pacific zones. b) Utah-Nevada-Arizona-California. From the northeast corner of the State of Nevada southerly along the Utah-Nevada boundary to the junction with the northern border of the City of West Wendover, Nevada. Then westward along the northern, western, and southern boundaries of the City of West Wendover back to the Utah-Nevada boundary. ---end---------------- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1999-10-21/html/99-27240.htm enacting the new border says: ---start------------- This rule is effective at 2:00 a.m. PDT, Sunday, October 31, 1999. ---end------------- -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Idaho tz correction
by Alan Mintz May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

I see someone tried to address this last month but it kind of fell flat. The solution seems clear to me, as described here: >In ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica v8.54 dated 2009-05-17 (the >current version), it says" > ># US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles ># ># California, northern Idaho (Benewah, Bonner, Boundary, Clearwater, ># Idaho, Kootenai, Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, and Shoshone counties, ># and the northern three-quarters of Idaho county), ># most of Nevada, most of Oregon, and Washington > >The first instance of Idaho in the county list (between Clearwater and >Kootenai) should be removed since the list ends with "and the northern >three-quarters of Idaho county". That is, only the northern 3/4 of the >county, not the whole county, is included (assuming that is true). The dividing line is actually the Salmon River, so I would change the paragraph to: # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles # # California, northern Idaho (Benewah, Bonner, Boundary, Clearwater, # Kootenai, Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, and Shoshone counties, # and the part of Idaho county lying north of the Salmon River), # most of Nevada, most of Oregon, and Washington If we wanted to give the same detail treatment to NV and OR: # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles # # - California # - Washington # - Northern Idaho (Benewah, Bonner, Boundary, Clearwater, # Kootenai, Latah, Lewis, Nez Perce, and Shoshone counties, # and the part of Idaho county lying north of the Salmon River) # - Oregon (except for the northern 3/4 of Malheur County) # - Nevada (except for West Wendover) I attempted to send this to the contact address at the top of the table (tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov) which was delayed 3 days and then bounced*. Shouldn't the tables be corrected to show the contact info for this list? *Actually, it seems that elsie.nci.nih.gov doesn't have an MX record (any more), so mailers attempt to connect to elsie directly to send mail, but it isn't listening (or won't connect). -- Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+TZ_IANA(a)Earthlink.net>

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Idaho tz correction
by OvV_HN May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

In reply to: [tz] Idaho tz correction Ian Abbott abbotti at mev.co.uk Tue May 22 11:12:18 UTC 2012 .... I guess we'd want to change the comment for Southern Idaho (America/Boise) as well, replacing "the southern quarter of Idaho county" with "the part of Idaho county lying south of the Salmon River".) Though looking at the map, the river meanders a bit so that some of the portion described above as lying south of the Salmon River is actually north of part of the river and south of another part of the same river! Reply: The law says that the "main channel of the Salmon River" the boundary is. US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49 (Transportation), Subtitle A (Office of the Secretary of Transportation), Part 71 (Standard Time Zone Boundaries). See paragraph 71.9. Oscar van Vlijmen

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Re: [tz] northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Steve Jones May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

At 20:27 5/21/2012, Tobias Conradi wrote: >More info the exceptions at: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackpot,_Nevada >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Wendover,_Nevada And <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owyhee,_Nevada>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owyhee,_Nevada. This image: www.discogs.com/Frank-Zappa-Sheik-Yerbouti/release/429613 demonstrates the local time zone border. The Nevada/Idaho state line is the official border, while the portion of the magenta that descends south into Nevada is the local unofficial observed time. Cheers, Steve Jones

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Re: [tz] northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Steve Jones May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

At 01:38 5/22/2012, Philip Newton wrote: >On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Steve Jones ><stevejones(a)ontimezone.com> wrote: > > This image: www.discogs.com/Frank-Zappa-Sheik-Yerbouti/release/429613 > > demonstrates the local time zone border. > >It does? Looks like a CD information page rather than an image to me. LOL and apologies... http://ontimezone.com/images/owyhee.gif That clipboard needs a DWIM (do what I mean) filter. Cheers, Steve Jones

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tz at elsie.nci.nih.gov -> tz at iana.org
by Tobias Conradi May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

was "Idaho tz correction" On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+TZ_IANA(a)earthlink.net> wrote: ... > I attempted to send this to the contact address at the top of the table > (tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov) which was delayed 3 days and then bounced*. > Shouldn't the tables be corrected to show the contact info for this list? > > > *Actually, it seems that elsie.nci.nih.gov doesn't have an MX record (any > more), so mailers attempt to connect to elsie directly to send mail, but it > isn't listening (or won't connect). Tobias Conradi suggested a replacement already at 2012-05-01: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017654.html -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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northamerica - Nevada - Mountain Time / Pacific Time
by Tobias Conradi May 22, 2012

May 22, 2012

was "Idaho tz correction" On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Alan Mintz <Alan_Mintz+TZ_IANA(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > I see someone tried to address this last month but it kind of fell flat. The > solution seems clear to me, as described here: > >> In ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica v8.54 dated 2009-05-17 (the >> current version), it says" ... > If we wanted to give the same detail treatment to NV and OR: > > # US Pacific time, represented by Los Angeles > # ... > # - Nevada (except for West Wendover) Alan, that would introduce inconsistency, since for Mountain time, represented by Denver it says "Nevada border (Jackpot, Owyhee, and Mountain City)" and then West Wendover wouldn't be covered anywhere. I suggest to keep "most of Nevada", but to amend the comments for the Nevada part that is on Mountain time, so the exceptions are only mentioned at one place. More info the exceptions at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackpot,_Nevada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Wendover,_Nevada -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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