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Addition to Microsoft.au time thread
by Chris Carrier Nov. 18, 1996

Nov. 18, 1996

If you think Microsoft's time bug is funny, here is a real-space time zone situation I find even funnier. At the South Pole, day and night each last for six months; sunrise is at the September equinox, sunset at the March equinox, and the time of day in any zone is meaningless. However, the South Pole uses daylight saving time from the first Sunday in October to the third Sunday in March! The reason they do this is because they want to stay on the same time as McMurdo Sound, which uses DST, and the reason McMurdo uses DST is because they want to be on the same time as New Zealand, which uses DST (NZDST=GMT+13:00) on the abovementioned dates. Now that's funny!

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DST and OS software
by Chris Carrier Nov. 17, 1996

Nov. 17, 1996

Which is why daylight saving time rules should NOT be incorporated into OS software -- because they continually change. I am wondering how many computers in the European Union (except UK/Ireland) went back to standard time September 29 when the EU didn't fall back until October 27, the former date being programmed into them when the code was written because the last Sunday in September was the rule then.

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Only Microsoft could come up with this one...
by Monty Solomon Nov. 17, 1996

Nov. 17, 1996

Begin forwarded message: Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny From: GeraghtyR(a)scrha.health.qld.gov.au (Geraghty Rob) Subject: Only Microsoft could come up with this one... Keywords: chuckle, computers Approved: funny-request(a)clari.net Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 4:30:02 EST Lines: 26 Just the other day, the eastern Australian States of New South Wales and Victoria went over to Daylight Saving time. Queensland did not. Windows 95 regards all three as being in one time zone. Consequently, all our email and schedule appointments have gone haywire, because Exchange is adjusting for a daylight saving difference we don't have. (please note that Queensland has only had daylight saving for one summer - about three years ago) I phoned Microsoft to ask whether they planned to fix the bug, but they told me: "It's not a bug." "Why not?" "Because Queensland had daylight saving when we wrote the code." -- Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke to funny(a)clari.net. Attribute the joke's source if at all possible. A Daemon will auto-reply. Remember: Always give your jokes a descriptive "Subject:" line. Don't use "joke" or "submission" or "joke submission," please. For the full submission guidelines, see http://comedy.clari.net/rhf/

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tzcode1996m.tar.gz and tzdata1996l.tar.gz
by ado Nov. 5, 1996

Nov. 5, 1996

The files ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzcode1996m.tar.gz and ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata1996l.tar.gz are now available. No functional changes here; the files have simply been changed to make more use of ISO style dates in comments. The names of the above files now include the year in full. --ado

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Re: Clock change orgy of 1996-10-27
by Peter Ilieve Nov. 2, 1996

Nov. 2, 1996

On Nov 2, 4:43am, Chris Carrier wrote: > [I wrote:] > >At least we are making progress here on the cooperation front, > >at least until the French upset things by suggesting they would scrap > >the whole idea. > > What is the status on that? I don't really know at present. There was a report in the Independent (a UK `quality' paper which is unfortunately only available on the Internet via AOL, and possibly only European AOL at that) on 25 October that at least acknowledged that France would have to consult with the rest of the EU about it. It said that `Paris would ask Brussels' meaning ask the EC Commission to be exempted from the Summer Time Directive as soon as possible, either next year or 1998. If it goes into 1998 it will be the eighth Directive which is not yet finalised. I have asked my usual contact at the Commission's Edinburgh office but she can't say much about the state of this new Directive. The Commission has produced a proposal which continues the current rules for 1998--2001. It is now the Council of Ministers' turn to reach a common postion, and then approve that as a Directive. They haven't shown much inclination so far and my contact points out that she can only speak for the Commission, not the Council. The new Directive is supposed to be approved by 1 Jan 97 but I think that is vanishingly unlikely even without this new French move. The Independent report said: `After three months of discussion and two parliamentary reports, it is clear that France intends to rid itself of a device that its experts say no longer saves fuel or manpower, upsets farmers, reduces milk yields by almost one-third and disrupts children's body-clocks.' Polls show 70% of people against changing the clocks, but an even split on the question of which time to use all the year round. Farmers and families with children favour permanent summer time (UTC+2), business and transport organisations favour winter time (UTC+1). The French Senate said winter time would be a good compromise with the rest of the EU, obviously assuming it continues to change its clocks, as France would have the same time as the UK in the Summer and the same as Germany in the winter. Can any French reader of this list give any references to the two official reports, possibly even a quick summary? Don't be too surprised about the importance given to milk yields. Cattle are an important determinant of EU policy, as witnessed by the current BSE row. :-) Peter Ilieve peter(a)aldie.co.uk

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Clock change orgy of 1996-10-27
by Chris Carrier Nov. 2, 1996

Nov. 2, 1996

More thoughts on the clock change orgy of 1996-10-27: >"Rob Jones 4-6597 MR Sys" > INTERNET:jones@mr.med.ge.com wrote: >Anyone willing to venture a guess as to the number of clocks involved ? >(including uwaves, vcrs, etc...) 11 clocks at my home, but only 3 people. In terms of number of people, the 1996-10-27 fall back probably was about equal to 1991-09-15, when China changed its clocks last; however, in terms of clocks changed, the 1996-10-27 event clearly set an all-time record given the higher development level and more consumer goods available in the US and EU; in my household there were five timing devices to be changed per person, and I imagine in China it would probably be closer to one device per five persons. Valery Aronov > INTERNET:valery@ind.tansu.com.au wrote: >My own personal view is that we all should move the start of the workday >and settings of our alarm-clocks if people really want to save energy or >to wake up with sun. No clock adjustment at all. The only inconvinience >I could imagine: two sets of working hours for offices - a summer set and >a winter set. So a DST adjustment will mean switching from one set to >another. Much less problems then now I think. Do you know if this >suggestion was ever considered? I would be very much in favor of this. One interesting thing in our office is that we have flextime and management is trying to get rid of it and to have everyone work 8-17. Most people's day begins around 7:45, and I would say about 15% of the office is on the equivalent of "Daylight Extra" with a workday beginning at 7. We have one woman who works 6-15 and who therefore could be considered on "Double Daylight Extra." I also have an interesting story about my former office, in Sacramento, the capital of California. When I worked there a decade ago, we had people in the office from 7:00 to 20:00. Full time employees were allowed to choose when they could come into work provided they worked an 8 hours within those limits. Sacramento is located in a valley in which summer days are VERY hot (average 35c and it's gone as high as 44c) but nights are quite pleasant, with an overnight low of 15c. I reacted to this by going on what might be called "Darkness Extra"; during the months when DST was in effect I set my work hours for 11:00-19:45, the equivalent of two hours of *reverse* DST to let me enjoy the cooler evenings. Alas, eventually the office went back to normal hours (first people in at 7:00; last out by 17:45) and I had to as well. Peter Hullah > INTERNET:Peter.Hullah@eurocontrol.fr wrote: >Isn't it about time the world came to realise that we don't live by the >sun anymore and that spreading our sunlight more-or-less evenly around >noon no longer has any sense? Strongly disagree; if you work an 8 hour day on a day shift, half of it usually is before noon so the work day starts at 8 which makes the average wakeup time on workdays between 6 and 7, which is when the sun ought to rise. In June, therefore, DST makes sense and in October it does not. >I reckon everyone should add two hours >to their current standard time and stick to it all year round. I've always believed that what can be done an hour before sunrise is much pleasanter to do an hour after sunrise. >In answer to those who say "Just get up and go to bed two hours earlier" >we all live in a community, and one family stepping out of line two >hours is not on. Actually I have heard of a few cases of families with pre-school children where the sole/or both adults work the night shift and the kids follow suit, although this has to change when the kids go to school. Garrett Wollman > INTERNET:wollman@lcs.mit.edu wrote: >...in a city like Boston ...retail sales in the major pedestrian >districts and downtown areas drops off about 25% when the sunset is >moved from 5:45 (after work) to 4:45 (before work lets out). I wonder how much of that activity is transferred to the lunch period, breaks, or before work? Probably most of it. >As far as I'm concerned, we would be better off observing Atlantic time >year-round. Had Boston (and all of New England) not been near the largest city and capital of the US, it might have. Consider there are many cities (Cincinnati, Louisville, Chatannooga, Tallahassee) which astronomically belong in the Central zone observe Eastern time, and large areas are on Central time when they astronomically belong on Mountain (most of the six states in a north- south row between North Dakota and Texas). Alex Livingston >INTERNET:alex@agsm.unsw.edu.au wrote: >Reply to: Re: did the Holiday Is observe DST after the rest of Queensland >stopped? >Australia's vying powers-that-be unfortunately have a very childish, >ingnorant and it seems almost purely politically motivated approach to >daylight saving. I have never tried to get to the bottom of how the dates >for the clock changes were chosen but they are *particularly* bad choices. >The switch made recently by the south-eastern mainland of the country comes >at a time when the sun is rising only about 20 minutes later in the day (in >absolute terms) than the earliest it ever rises, but about 2 hours earlier >than the latest it ever rises. This means that the earliest sunrise of the >year (in clock terms) occurs the day before clocks are advanced. Just like most places in the United States before 1987 when almost nobody sprang forward before the last Sunday in April, wartime and 1974-5 excepted. >On the other hand, when the switch back to so-called standard time occurs at >the end of March, the sun is rising about 1 hour and 20 minutes later (in >absolute terms) than the earliest sunrise of the year and only about an >hour earlier than the latest... I've always thought the logical time to begin and end DST was at some time near the equinox when the sun is at least 1 hour earlier than the latest it does by standard time, and at least 1 hour later than the earliest it does by daylight time. DST should not be used short of an emergency during the time near winter solstice when the sun is rising <1 hour earlier than the latest it ever does by standard time, and if there is <2 hours between the earliest and latest sunrise, you don't have enough daylight to save to warrant DST! Peter Ilieve > INTERNET:peter@aldie.co.uk wrote on the subject: did the Holiday Is observe DST after the rest of Queenslan stopped? >Of my trio of islands, Eigg and Canna are also privately owned (I don't >know about Muck). I fail to see why owning land that is bounded by sea >rather than land bounded by a more normal fence makes the owners any less >subject to the Summer Time Act 1972 than I am. >Don't you have laws in Australia? :-) Setting up private and extra-legal times has a long history in the US. I remember Block Island, RI, went on DST in November 1973 two weeks after they fell back. I know people who were in Indiana in the 1950s-60s who remember the post office being an hour ahead or behind of the rest of town, an unincorporated area of a county being on a different time than a county seat, and so on. When the Uniform Time Act of 1966 was passed, Indiana passed a law requiring one clock in each public building to observe UTAT and marked "Official Time" so localities could go about their merry way. >People seem reluctant to give up summer time, >as shown by popular support in the rest of Europe for changing from >September to October, but don't seem to think of demanding an earlier >start. I wonder if anyone took a poll on the popularity of summer time in the last week in October 1996, when Europe was actually on summer time, as opposed to earlier polls showing majorities in favor. >At least we are making progress here on the cooperation front, >at least until the French upset things by suggesting they would scrap >the whole idea. What is the status on that? Actually the situation in France (and Spain) is that they are already on year round daylight time since their 'standard' is GMT+1 instead of the GMT zone that (nearly all of) France and Spain are astronomically in. When they talk about 'summer time' what they really mean is DOUBLE summer time. It should be noted when the UK was on double DST during WW2 it always ended the second weekend in August or earlier except in 1944, and even then it ran only to mid-September. I can see objections to DDST on October 26th having more than a little merit.

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Re: did the Holiday Is observe DST after the rest of Queensland stopped?
by Nathan Myers Nov. 1, 1996

Nov. 1, 1996

> [Somebodies] unfortunately have a very childish, > ingnorant and it seems almost purely politically motivated approach to > daylight saving. ... But I digress... Daylight saving has always been a purely political phenomenon, an attempt to legislate reality. (Consider observance of summer time in tropical countries!) It is, and always will be, subject to all the foolishness that any purely political abstraction is. Tracking that foolishness in software is as thankless as it is necessary. Nathan Myers ncm@@cantrip.com

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Re: did the Holiday Is observe DST after the rest of Queensland stopped?
by peter＠aldie.co.uk Nov. 1, 1996

Nov. 1, 1996

> >I know I am a long way away from the scene of the action, but from looking > >at the map this looks about as likely as Eigg, Muck or Canna > >having different DST rules from the rest of the UK; ie. not very. :-) > > > >My Times Concise Atlas lists Hayman and Lindeman as being on either > >side of Whitsunday Island. My Britannica Atlas doesn't list either > >but gives 20.17S 148.59E for Whitsunday. Neither has any trace of > >Hamilton. > > I have actually *been* to Hamilton Island, and a close friend of mine > recently had a holiday on Hayman Island. The three islands are probably > owned entirely by holiday (that's "vacation" to you North Americans) > operators and probably made autonomous decisions as to what time to keep on > their properties. I have heard or read more than once that some resort > islands off the coast of Queensland chose to keep observing daylight-saving > time even after Queensland ceased to. It seems that no only does each state > decide independantly if and when to observe daylight saving, but > commercially run holiday resorts can also do it their way. And then there's > Lord Howe Island (what a disaster!). I have reason to doubt, by the way, > that "Holiday Islands" is an officially gazetted name: it's not one I'm > familiar with; as far as I'm aware, all these islands are part of the > Whitsunday Islands group. Of my trio of islands, Eigg and Canna are also privately owned (I don't know about Muck). I fail to see why owning land that is bounded by sea rather than land bounded by a more normal fence makes the owners any less subject to the Summer Time Act 1972 than I am. Don't you have laws in Australia? :-) Seriously, should the tz database document legal time, or should it also document other sorts of `custom and practice' time? If the latter I'm sure I can promulgate an Aldie time to be observed on my patch that would break something in the existing code. :-) Another nearby island, Rum (Rhum if you believe the Ordnance Survey) is also owned by a single organisation and is largely given over to research into Red Deer. Maybe I should suggest to Scottish Natural Heritage that their scientific work justifies keeping UTC all year round. > Australia's vying powers-that-be unfortunately have a very childish, > ingnorant and it seems almost purely politically motivated approach to > daylight saving. ... But I digress... We have the same thing. People seem reluctant to give up summer time, as shown by popular support in the rest of Europe for changing from September to October, but don't seem to think of demanding an earlier start. At least we are making progress here on the cooperation front, at least until the French upset things by suggesting they would scrap the whole idea. Peter Ilieve peter(a)aldie.co.uk

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Moscow DST correction
by Андрей Чернов Nov. 1, 1996

Nov. 1, 1996

Diffs related to europe 7.38 *** europe.orig Thu Jul 18 00:54:30 1996 --- europe Sun Sep 29 19:20:56 1996 *************** *** 852,858 **** Rule Russia 1921 only - Oct 1 0:00 0 K Rule Russia 1981 1984 - Apr 1 0:00 1:00 D Rule Russia 1981 1983 - Oct 1 0:00 0 K ! Rule Russia 1984 max - Sep lastSun 2:00s 0 K Rule Russia 1985 max - Mar lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D # These are for backward compatibility with older versions. --- 852,859 ---- Rule Russia 1921 only - Oct 1 0:00 0 K Rule Russia 1981 1984 - Apr 1 0:00 1:00 D Rule Russia 1981 1983 - Oct 1 0:00 0 K ! Rule Russia 1984 1995 - Sep lastSun 2:00s 0 K ! Rule Russia 1996 max - Oct lastSun 2:00s 0 K Rule Russia 1985 max - Mar lastSun 2:00s 1:00 D # These are for backward compatibility with older versions. -- Andrey A. Chernov <ache(a)nagual.ru> http://www.nagual.ru/~ache/

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Re: did the Holiday Is observe DST after the rest of Queensland stopped?
by alex＠agsm.unsw.edu.au Nov. 1, 1996

Nov. 1, 1996

>> According to the current tz database, Queensland stopped observing DST >> after summer 1991/1992. But the IATA SSIM (which I'm currently >> slogging through, thanks to Gwillim Law) says that the Holiday Islands >> (Hayman, Lindeman, Hamilton) observed DST through 1993/1994. Does >> anyone know the true story here? > >I know I am a long way away from the scene of the action, but from looking >at the map this looks about as likely as Eigg, Muck or Canna >having different DST rules from the rest of the UK; ie. not very. :-) > >My Times Concise Atlas lists Hayman and Lindeman as being on either >side of Whitsunday Island. My Britannica Atlas doesn't list either >but gives 20.17S 148.59E for Whitsunday. Neither has any trace of >Hamilton. I have actually *been* to Hamilton Island, and a close friend of mine recently had a holiday on Hayman Island. The three islands are probably owned entirely by holiday (that's "vacation" to you North Americans) operators and probably made autonomous decisions as to what time to keep on their properties. I have heard or read more than once that some resort islands off the coast of Queensland chose to keep observing daylight-saving time even after Queensland ceased to. It seems that no only does each state decide independantly if and when to observe daylight saving, but commercially run holiday resorts can also do it their way. And then there's Lord Howe Island (what a disaster!). I have reason to doubt, by the way, that "Holiday Islands" is an officially gazetted name: it's not one I'm familiar with; as far as I'm aware, all these islands are part of the Whitsunday Islands group. Australia's vying powers-that-be unfortunately have a very childish, ingnorant and it seems almost purely politically motivated approach to daylight saving. I have never tried to get to the bottom of how the dates for the clock changes were chosen but they are *particularly* bad choices. The switch made recently by the south-eastern mainland of the country comes at a time when the sun is rising only about 20 minutes later in the day (in absolute terms) than the earliest it ever rises, but about 2 hours earlier than the latest it ever rises. This means that the earliest sunrise of the year (in clock terms) occurs the day before clocks are advanced. On the other hand, when the switch back to so-called standard time occurs at the end of March, the sun is rising about 1 hour and 20 minutes later (in absolute terms) than the earliest sunrise of the year and only about an hour earlier than the latest. (The figures quoted apply roughly to the latitude of Adelaide or Sydney but will not differ hugely within the range of latitudes where daylight saving is now observed in Australia.) If the populace can live with the sun rising as late at it does at the end of the daylight-saving period then it should surely be happy to live with it at the beginning as well, in which case it could be started a full 7 weeks earlier (around September 9). And in all of this the possibility of coordinating with other southern-hemisphere countries which also observe daylight saving (even neighbours like New Zealand and Vanuatu) doesn't seem to have flickered into any law-maker's consciousness. (That would involve acknowledging that someone else thought of daylight saving first and rob them of the kudos of coming up with such a great "original" idea.) After all, even the states can't coordinate. But I digress... _______________ Alex LIVINGSTON Macintosh Support Computing & IT (C&IT) Australian Graduate School of Management (AGSM) The University of New South Wales (UNSW) Sydney NSW 2052 AUSTRALIA E-mail : alex(a)agsm.unsw.edu.au; cit(a)agsm.unsw.edu.au (C&IT) Facsimile: +61 2 9313-7279 Telephone: +61 2 9931-9264

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