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Abreviation(s) for Daylight Saving Time in Australia [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 18, 2013

April 18, 2013

I have one simple question that I'm hoping to get a straight forward answer to. Has enough been done by Timothy, Myself and other contributors to convince the coordinators that the current situation where Daylight Saving Time (for Australian time zones) is abbreviated as ST = Summer Time is in error and should be changed? Regards, Peter Stagg | Web Developer, Radar Systems Bureau of Meteorology Australian Meteorological Data Information Services System (AMDISS) Bureau of Meteorology GPO Box 1289 Melbourne VIC 3001 Level 6, 700 Collins Street, Docklands VIC 3008 Tel: +61 3 9669 4232 | Fax: +61 3 9669 4128 www.bom.gov.au

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Re: [tz] EST/EDT vs AEST/AEDT in AQ [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Tobias Conradi April 17, 2013

April 17, 2013

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Garrett Wollman <wollman(a)csail.mit.edu> wrote: > <<On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 20:38:42 +0200, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> said: > > >> And one of them is important to avoid ambiguity (D means 1:00) and the >> other (1:00 has to be D) is not. > > It is entirely unimportant to "avoid ambiguity". How did you come to this conclusion? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Complete list of IANA time zone abbreviations
by Tobias Conradi April 16, 2013

April 16, 2013

Is a complete list of IANA time zone abbreviations available in the WWW? I found: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations * http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/ * http://www.timegenie.com/timezones.php All list ACDT which, as of today, is not an IANA abbreviation, so these listings are not what I am looking for. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Suggesting an ISO standard for time zone identification - possible replacement of IANA abbreviations
by Tobias Conradi April 16, 2013

April 16, 2013

Dear Mr. Carpenter, this email is send to you, because you are listed as the secretary for the "TC 46/SC 9 Identification and description". Maybe you can forward it to the relevant office or tell me where else I can email to. I suggest that the ISO creates an ISO standard for time zone identification. Current abbreviations in the IANA time zone database are ambiguous, e.g. IST may refer to Israel Standard Time or India Standard Time. The standard could be used in the IANA time zone database and projects that collect time zone related data, e.g. laws and translations of names. Since time zone law is country related one could look whether ISO 3166 can be used. The IANA time zone database has the stated aim of being correct for all regions in the world after the year 1970. Although the earliest ISO 3166 country code standard on the ISO website is ISO 3166:1981, web search for ISO 3166 1974 gives several hits claiming the first publication was in 1974. If there have been countries between 1970 and 1974 that have no ISO 3166 code one can use codes from the user-assigned code space. So the first two letters might be ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code based. But I suggest checking whether the alpha-3 codes or numeric codes are a better fit. Further letters may then mark regions inside a country and special restricted time shifts, e.g. daylight saving time. Such a structured set could look like: AUEDT - Australia Eastern Daylight saving Time AUCDT - United States Central Daylight saving Time AUWDT - Australia Western Daylight saving Time EUEDT - EU Eastern Daylight saving Time EUCDT - EU Central Daylight saving Time EUWDT - EU Western Daylight saving Time IDEST - Indonesia Eastern Standard Time IDCST - Indonesia Central Standard Time IDWST - Indonesia Western Standard Time USEDT - United States Eastern Daylight saving Time USCDT - United States Central Daylight saving Time USPDT - United States Pacific Daylight saving Time Kind regards Tobias Conradi -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Palestine DST starts on 2013-03-29
by Steffen Thorsen April 15, 2013

April 15, 2013

The following news sources tells that Palestine will " start daylight saving time from midnight on Friday, March 29, 2013" (translated). http://www.samanews.com/index.php?act=Show&id=154120 (Gaza) http://safa.ps/details/news/99844/%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%… (Ramallah, West Bank) No end date given, but we assume it will end the last Sunday of September. Our background info: http://www.timeanddate.com/news/time/palestine-starts-dst-2013.html Best regards, Steffen Thorsen - timeanddate.com

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morroco in summer time the 28th april
by Sebastien WILLEMIJNS April 13, 2013

April 13, 2013

Hello, Morocco was a thread here so i speak again about it / saw on google: http://www.lemag.ma/Le-Maroc-passe-a-l-heure-d-ete-le-dimanche-28-avril_a69… H+60 the 28th april at 2am. this time will be suspended during the ramadan month.

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Patch use LHDT/LHST/LHHDT since HD HS DD DS are common practice
by Tobias Conradi April 13, 2013

April 13, 2013

Patch australasia.20130411.withLHHDT is linked from http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_database - I don't link to the actual location, because that may change. And I don't email, because I don't know what the email client does with the file. The patch includes AEST/AEDT ACST/ACDT AWST/AWDT CWST/CWDT LHDT/LHST/LHHDT -------- The bom.gov.au-patch introduces new syntax, which for itself might be fine, but this new syntax is less informative than the established one and might be seen as deterioration to the whole database. No single use of single "D" for non-1:00 saving has been found by me. There is one single "D" in a LHDT but there it referred to a 1:00 saving. Be consistent, apply common practice established by the maintainers and use: HD 0:30 LHHDT Australia/Lord_Howe For non 1:00 DST offsets the database contains: DD 2:00 NDDT America/St_Johns IDDT Asia/Jerusalem DS 2:00 MDST - Moscow Double Summer Time, BDST - British Double Summer Time HD 0:30 CHDT America/Belize CHDT EHDT America/Santo_Domingo HS 0:30 UYHST America/Montevideo IHST Asia/Colombo CKHST Pacific/Rarotonga HS 0:20 GHST Africa/Accra -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] [PATCH 0/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Peter Stagg April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

I would like to offer (again) the following evidence in support of Timothy's request for a patch to eliminate the ambiguous time zone abbreviations from the TZ Database. The assertion from John Mackin that "We in Australia have _never_ referred to DST as `daylight' time." is patently untrue - the video from four corners (posted previously - see below) is clear evidence that the term is used and has been in use since well before John Mackin's statement from 1991. Language is a living thing it changes and evolves over time so it is possible that in 1991 "summer time" was in vogue. It is also possible that John Mackin comes from the culture of British migrants that may well have used this term due to their British heritage. Either way the Google searches of government web sites show that the phrase "daylight saving" is used, formally, more frequently then "summer time". There are many problems with searching the broader context of .au web sites for frequency of use of "EST" vs. "EDT" and "summer time" vs. "daylight saving": "EST" vs. "EDT" Only tree of the four states in the "Eastern Standard Timezone" have daylight savings and they only have it for aprox. four of the twelve months in the year. And as someone pointed out before many web sites unwittingly use the TZ Database data to automatically timestamp pages. So the frequency of use of "EST" is destined to be much higher then "EDT" and therefore the search is meaningless. "summer time" vs. "daylight saving" "daylight saving" has, pretty much, one unambiguous meaning where as "summer time" (summertime) has so many that have nothing what so ever to do with "daylight saving": - "Summertime" is an aria composed by George Gershwin for the 1935 opera Porgy and Bess. - Summertime is a 1955 American/British Technicolor drama film directed by David Lean - May refer to "British summer time"; given Australia's long association with the mother country old newspapers etc. online often refer to "British summer time" - It may refer to (as it does in many countries) the *seasonal* time of summer as in "summer time and the living is easy". As evidence of this I searched Trove (the National Library of Australia's online collection of digitised Newspapers etc.) <http://trove.nla.gov.au> for these phrases separately "EST", "EDT", "summer time" and "daylight saving". I searched only Australian content and only the Digitised newspapers section, the results were as follows: "EST" = 2,049,093 "EDT" = 27,401 "Summer time" = 55,120 "daylight saving" = 11,960 The only one of these which returns relatively unambiguous results is "daylight saving" and here is why: The first full page of the search for "EST" does not contain a single reference to time. "EST" (Est.) is a very commonly used abbreviation for Established for one thing. "EDT" is just as ambiguous. "daylight saving", is much less ambiguous all-though searching for it will return the likes of "Nothing but fair weather and daylight saved". The earliest use of the term (we never use) is in 1908 referring to the "Daylight Saving Bill" it is referred to in more than a dozen daily newspapers of the time. "Mr. Robert Pearce, tbe member for the Leek division of Staffordshire, is a humorist. To the intense amusement of the House the other day he gravely introducedva measure called the "Daylight_ Saving Bill," by which he proposes, bv an ingenious juggling with' the hoursof the clock, to actually give us more daylight! Mr. Pcarce's project is on the first four Sundays in April to put on the clock 20 minutes between 2 a.m. and 3 p.m., each hour, therefore consisting of only 40 minutes. Similarly it is propo^d in September that the same hour in the morning should consist of 80 minutes. The annual gain of daylight Mr. Pearce esti-mates at 210 hours." [sic.] "Summer time" very rarely refers to Australian "daylight saving time" as can be seen from a selection of results from the first page of the search... ----- Sunday Times (Perth, WA : 1902 - 1954) Sunday 2 November 1947 p 2 Article ... Summertime LONDON, Sat: British summertime time ends tomorrow, when G.M.T. will be restored. Change officially occurs at 3.30 a.m. ----- The Daily News (Perth, WA : 1882 - 1950) Saturday 22 August 1936 Edition: GOLDFIELDS EDITION p 16 Article ... Summertime Summertime is coming near; I heard a blowfly yesterday. Mosquitoes buzzing here and there Are signs that summer's on the way. People talk about the flowers In bloom, and skies of azure blue. I can tell that winter's hours Are few another way, can't you? Winter jumpers are not seen So ... ----- Examiner (Launceston, Tas. : 1900 - 1954) Saturday 24 February 1917 Edition: DAILY p 7 Article ... SUMMER TIME. It is understood that the Government will introduce summer time to operate between April 8 and September 23. ... ----- Oh. Before you jump on that last one look at the dates then realise that it was in a section of the paper headed "British Parliament." In conclusion there is little real unambiguous evidence out there that prooves "summer time" is more commonly used in Australia *to refer to* "Daylight Saving(s) Time" than the phrase "Daylight Saving(s) Time". In actual fact there is more evidence to prove the oposite. Formally the majority of Australian government websites refer to "Daylight Saving(s) Time" and this is the part of the TZ Database that we Australian users disagree with and wish to have changed. ----- search: legislation "standard time" "daylight saving" site:.gov.au About 25,600 results (0.21 seconds) search: legislation "standard time" "summer time" site:.gov.au About 15,600 results (0.14 seconds) N.B. ".gov.au" searches all state and federal official sites as they all use this domain. (e.g. Federal = just .gov.au, State i.e. Victoria = .vic.gov.au ). ----- An interesting video from the 1970's Four Corners program on the ABC (Australia's national broadcaster, ICYDK) on the introduction of "Daylight Saving" in Tasmania. Note the consistent use of that term "Daylight Saving", "Summer Time" is never mentioned (FYI It's a predominantly British term) and take a look at the flight attendant's bonnet! http://www.abc.net.au/archives/80days/stories/2012/01/19/3415208.htm Regards, Peter Stagg Web Developer - Radar Systems, AMDIS, +61 3 9669-4232, www.bom.gov.au ----- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:50:04 +1000 From: Timothy Arceri <T.Arceri(a)bom.gov.au> Subject: [tz] [PATCH 0/2] Follow Australian common usage and update CST/CST to CST/CDT and EST/EST to EST/EDT etc [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] To: "'tz(a)iana.org' (tz(a)iana.org)" <tz(a)iana.org> Message-ID: <7F491A8A71010C4E8B0266E3478C047A0220B1760322(a)BOM-VMBX-HO.bom.gov.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <delitia> The reason for the current situation is documented in the Australasia data file: >From John Mackin (1991-03-06): "We in Australia have _never_ referred to DST as `daylight' time. It is called `summer' time. Now by a happy coincidence, `summer' and `standard' happen to start with the same letter; hence, the abbreviation does _not_ change..." -----

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Gaza DST
by Keith Harris April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

Hi All, Sorry I couldn't find a way to bump this issue via the original thread. Just wondering what the latest is on getting this change released. I've tested the latest version of the db from the repository and it has jodatime reporting the correct time for Gaza today. Be great to get this in place as I've got people missing their conference calls by an hour! (Thanks so much for all the hard work by everyone on the list - wonderful to see at least one bit of the world's technology just working the way it should :-D ) Keith Harris SoftlySoftware <http://softlysoftware.com>

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Macquarie Island - ISO 3166-1 code AQ vs AU
by Tobias Conradi April 12, 2013

April 12, 2013

Was Re: [tz] EST/EDT vs AEST/AEDT in AQ [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] I think the research for the correct ISO country for Macquarie Island is easier followable if kept in a separate thread. On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Timothy Arceri <T.Arceri(a)bom.gov.au> wrote: >>>From: tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com [mailto:tobias.conradi@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Tobias >>>> We are simply trying to get the daylight savings abbreviations changed >>>> to what is *actually* used in Australia. >>>Macquarie Island in the IANA time zone database is AQ and not Australia. >> >> Macquarie island is part of Australia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_Island > > In Wikipedia, not in the IANA time zone database. > > ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab > > AQ -5430+15857 Antarctica/Macquarie Macquarie Island Station, Macquarie Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macquarie_Island categorized as belonging to Tasmania, which in turn is given as part of Australia. What is the reason to have Macquarie Island as AQ Antartica in the IANA time zone database? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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