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Re: [tz] Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 27, 2011

Oct. 27, 2011

That's okay. My compiler is done and I can now create a database containing transitions for each zone. Thanks everyone for the help and the indirect help I received through the archive. Willy ----- Original Message ----- On Mon Oct 24 14:43:41 2011"Steve Allen" <sla(a)ucolick.org> wrote: > On Mon 2011-10-24T14:21:04 -0400, Willy(a)willylorenzo.com hath writ: > > Yes, it would be nice to use the binaries, but I have to provide a complete > > solution that can, upon someone retrieving and extracting the tz data, > > update the db with a click of a button on a Windows computer. > > Unless I'm mistaken one of the goals of the CalConnect Timezone > Technical Committee effort is to define network server mechanism for > providing zoneinfo to any client which needs to know that. > Is this the sort of project which can wait for that spec to mature and > use its data? If so that might be preferable to inventing yet another > mechanism.

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Robert Elz as TZ coordinator and designated technical expert
by Marshall Eubanks Oct. 26, 2011

Oct. 26, 2011

Hello; I volunteered to act on the behalf of the Time Zone Database community and relay the call (by David Keegel) that the TZ mailing list has reached a consensus that Robert Elz ( kre(a)munnari.oz.au) should be TZ Coordinator, and the technical expert to IANA designated by the IESG, as is called for in draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04 While that document has not been formally published by the IETF, it has been approved by the IESG and IANA is now administering the Time Zone database and mailing list under its provisions, so a technical expert is needed. On the primary thread discussing this on the TZML this there were over 20 messages and no opposition in over 2 weeks of LC, so I think that there is no doubt that the consensus is very solid. He has been acting in this role in a temporary capacity so there would be no perturbations caused by this appointment. Pete and Peter, could you please relay this to the entire IESG? I would be glad to answer any questions, and I am sure that David K would be as well. Regards Marshall Eubanks

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zdump issues
by Thom Hehl Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

I'm trying to write a C++ wrapper for the timezone database. I have run ZIC to convert the data to binary files and know where these are. Now I'm having a look at zdump because, when I'm done, I want to convert UTC to a time zone of my choice. Problem is when I run zdump it never seems to return anything different. E.g., thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Anchorage America/Anchorage Mon Oct 24 19:46:24 2011 GMT thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Chicago America/Chicago Mon Oct 24 19:46:34 2011 GMT thom@hehl /cygdrive/c/javatools/tzinfo/src $ ./zdump America/Kentucky/Louiville America/Kentucky/Louiville Mon Oct 24 19:48:21 2011 GMT My clock is current set to Eastern Daylight. Thanks.

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Re: [tz] Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Yes, it would be nice to use the binaries, but I have to provide a complete solution that can, upon someone retrieving and extracting the tz data, update the db with a click of a button on a Windows computer. So I have to compile the data myself. If the format of the data files changes, that's fine...I'll just update the process. It doesn't seem too difficult, though. Reading some of the messages in the archive has helped me to better understand the process. I basically have to create UTC transition dates for every year covered by an individual rule. I create a date/time from the rule, adjust it by the GMTOFF of the zone (accounting for u indicators,) and then adjust it by any daylight saving time that might be in effect from a previous rule (accounting for s indicators.) That's not so bad. I'm still trying to figure out a slick way of handling max, though. On Mon Oct 24 05:23:23 2011"Alois Treindl" <alois(a)astro.ch> wrote: > > Personally, I would not recommend of writing yet another tz compiler. Reading and processing the binary files created by zic seems to me a much cleaner and more reliable approach.

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Ukraine and DST
by Denys Gavrysh Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Hello. On September 20, 2011 the deputies of the Ukrainian parliament (Verkhovna Rada) agreed to abolish the transfer clock to winter time. But on October 19 that decision was finally canceled. Here is an official document (in Ukrainian): http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 I wrote a patch for latest tzdata archive that returns daylight saving time for Ukraine (in attachment). We very need it.

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Is there a high-level conversion process description available?
by Willy＠willylorenzo.com Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

I was wondering if there exists a high-level description of the process of converting a wall-time from one zone into UTC (and vice-versa) that describes the conversion using the text based zone information (the rules and zones) rather than referencing the binary files. If conversions simply cant be done that way because they require additional data thats produced by zic, then Id like to know that too. Im attempting an implementation of the TZ database in a system called Lotus Notes, which uses a BASIC like language for programming called LotusScript. So I pretty much have to build everything from scratch...which is fine. Im going through the archives and Ive already found good info there from the recent "Time zone confusion and implementation hints" thread back in July (dont know why Yves Goergen didnt want to install Cygwin...5 minutes after reading that message I had Cygwin installed and was reviewing those tzinfo files!) But Im still looking for (what seems to be) basic information, such as can the tz code convert 2011-11-06 1:30 AM America/New_York? That date seems to gets different results based on which converter I use online, as it would appear that you have to know the DST status in order to get the DST status to convert to UTC. I know nothing about Unix or the c/c++/java languages so I know have a steep learning curve if I want to understand the existing tz code...but Im hoping that if I can understand the zone conversion process then I can write the necessary code. Ive got the nearly 5300 lines of rules, zones, leaps, and links stored in a Notes db for easier manipulation, and I can take a zone UNTIL or a rule and year and produce a date from it. So its a start. Thanks. Willy Lorenzo

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Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Todd Glassey Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

So I need to properly introduce myself to explain why I said what I said on the list. I am a professional timekeeper meaning that I and my team operate clocks which end users rely on. My team runs 10 of the NIST public access timebase systems and is expanding the availability of UTC to include PTP and other evidence-control tools as add-ons for traceable time. That said - the TZ data is used in virtually all commercial and electronic document/instrument processing systems operational today. The problem is that the Time Zone data itself (while created through a standards process) has largely been managed as an ad-hoc offering and this was accepted everywhere because the party and hosting entity for this were the US Government NIH and Dr. Olson. But with the good Dr.s retirement there is a need to formalize this process and expand its controls so that the data remains both properly managed and available to all. So the question is how to do that, and I have pushed back that this effort is much more important and needs to be managed outside an IETF process because of the lack of control the IETF has designed into its framework. This specific project is one which needs a level of oversight that the IETF process doesnt put in place for changes and content updates to the DB. What needs to happen I believe is that this effort should define a process wherein any legal authority can request a IANA update to the data base and have that processed in a fixed timeframe outside of any continued IETF review. This is not an excuse to make a new IETF WG to control the world... its about letting the world operate in a manner which doesnt impose the IETF's judgement or political opinions on anyone either. That said my proposal is to morph the current I-D by adding an inline update process to the CONTENT RECORDS of the DB and a NEW RECORD Addition Policy and Practice through IANA and not the IETF. In closing - My apologies for antagonizing anyone, and I would point out that since we do about 300M timesettings per day - all tied to TZ's I would retort I may be one of the only people here who is NOT a troll... Todd -- Todd S. Glassey - CISM CIFI CTO Certichron Inc This message contains information which may be confidential and/or privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the intended recipient), you may not read, use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachment(s) thereto without retaining any copies. Further we have a formal OPT OUT Policy posted on our website pertaining to the use of any Email Addresses gleaned or taken from any source, web, mailing lists, previous customer lists etc. In all instances we choose to formally OPT OUT and this notice constitutes formal disclosure that you may not collect, buy or sell or provide access to this email address or any pertaining to our DNS MX Record Publication License posted on the web at http://www-wp.certichron.com/?page_id=3947.

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Fwd: Re: Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue.
by Random832 Oct. 24, 2011

Oct. 24, 2011

Why doesn't the "reply-to" header get set on these messages? I sent this directly by mistake: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tz] Introduction and apology for slamming you "with that TZ is a legal thing" commentary out of the blue. Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 00:11:53 -0400 From: Random832 <random832(a)fastmail.us> To: Peter Ilieve <peter(a)aldie.co.uk> On 10/20/2011 1:39 PM, Peter Ilieve wrote: > Assuming you managed to set up this mechanism where a legal authority > can make requests, how many requests do you think would get made? > My guess would be hardly any, maybe even zero. Based on my reading of > this list over many years, lots of governments can barely be trusted > to tell their own citizens what will happen to the clocks. They > probably won't be interested in contacting a bunch of geeks like > us, even if they knew we existed. It may be that these governments are thinking that this is all still done by people changing clocks by hand, so it won't inconvenience anyone if they just announce on the saturday evening news that people should change or not change their clocks that sunday morning. So maybe it would be a good idea to prepare a form letter that can be sent to any agency which enacts a timezone change without any advance notice, explaining the issues involved, and in general the fact that computer systems have to be updated to know the rules, and that some lead time is necessary for this.

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Proposed time zone package changes (Bahia Brazil, Pridnestrovie, Ukraine)
by Robert Elz Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

Here are proposed changes to the time zone package. The change to Bahia Brazil has already occurred, and the others are due to occur within 10 days (the weekend after next) so updates have become urgent (yet again)... The executive summary europe Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (Europe/Tiraspol) has followed much of Russia, and will retain "summer time" year round (that is no time transition is due Oct 30). This reintroduces a zone that had earlier been removed, and so removes the "backward" link. On the other hand, Ukraine have decided not to follow, so the change which had been made in preparation for that in tzdata2011k is now reverted, and there will be a transition on Oct 30. southamerica The change to Bahia, Brazil, that introduced summer time (following the regular Brazil rules, so commencing this year on Oct 16 - last SUnday) that was mooted before tzdata2011l was released, but withdrawn becase the change was not yet official, has now been ratified. Aside from that, the other files that were changed in tzdata2011l but where the sccs id was not altered, have all been given new version numbers (southamerica has gone up by two, one for the 2011l changes, and another for this set). Sorry, still no signatures (I have not had time to do anything about that) but I will distribute hash values as I did for tzdata2011l. Please test these changes (particularly those of you using 64 bit time_t systems). I plan to release the next update (with thiese changes) on Monday October 24. kre --- asia 2011/10/08 02:27:38 1.3 +++ asia 2011/10/15 03:17:13 @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@ -# @(#)asia 8.68 +# @(#)asia 8.69 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- australasia 2011/10/08 02:28:28 1.3 +++ australasia 2011/10/15 03:18:03 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)australasia 8.27 +# @(#)australasia 8.28 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- backward 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ backward 2011/10/20 02:20:30 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)backward 8.9 +# @(#)backward 8.10 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -67,7 +67,6 @@ Link Africa/Cairo Egypt Link Europe/Dublin Eire Link Europe/London Europe/Belfast -Link Europe/Chisinau Europe/Tiraspol Link Europe/London GB Link Europe/London GB-Eire Link Etc/GMT GMT+0 --- europe 2011/10/07 06:09:10 1.1 +++ europe 2011/10/20 02:30:32 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)europe 8.38 +# @(#)europe 8.39 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -1655,6 +1655,29 @@ # But [two people] separately reported via # Jesper Norgaard that as of 2001-01-24 Tiraspol was like Chisinau. # The Tiraspol entry has therefore been removed for now. +# +# From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-10-17): +# Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic (PMR, also known as +# "Pridnestrovie") has abolished seasonal clock change (no transition +# to the Winter Time). +# +# News (in Russian): +# <a href="http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi…"> +# http://www.kyivpost.ua/russia/news/pridnestrove-otkazalos-ot-perehoda-na-zi… +# </a> +# +# <a href="http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html"> +# http://www.allmoldova.com/moldova-news/1249064116.html +# </a> +# +# The substance of this change (reinstatement of the Tiraspol entry) +# is from a patch from Petr Machata (2011-11-17) +# +# From Tim Parenti (2011-10-19) +# In addition, being situated at +4651+2938 would give Tiraspola +# a pre-1880 LMT offset of 1:58:32. +# +# (which agrees with the earlier entry that had been removed) # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Chisinau 1:55:20 - LMT 1880 @@ -1671,6 +1694,21 @@ # See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. 2:00 EU EE%sT +Zone Europe/Tiraspol 1:58:32 - LMT 1880 + 1:55 - CMT 1918 Feb 15 # Chisinau MT + 1:44:24 - BMT 1931 Jul 24 # Bucharest MT + 2:00 Romania EE%sT 1940 Aug 15 + 2:00 1:00 EEST 1941 Jul 17 + 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 24 + 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 + 3:00 - MSK 1990 May 6 + 2:00 - EET 1991 + 2:00 Russia EE%sT 1992 + 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1997 +# See Romania commentary for the guessed 1997 transition to EU rules. + 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u + 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + # Monaco # Shanks & Pottenger give 0:09:20 for Paris Mean Time; go with Howse's # more precise 0:09:21. @@ -2651,6 +2689,28 @@ # <a href="http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/"> # http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2011/09/20/6600616/ # </a> +# +# From Philip Pizzey (2011-10-18): +# Today my Ukrainian colleagues have informed me that the +# Ukrainian parliament have decided that they will go to winter +# time this year after all. +# +# From Udo Schwedt (2011-10-18): +# As far as I understand, the recent change to the Ukranian time zone +# (Europe/Kiev) to introduce permanent daylight saving time (similar +# to Russia) was reverted today: +# +# <a href="http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=…"> +# http://portal.rada.gov.ua/rada/control/en/publish/article/info_left?art_id=… +# </a> +# +# Also reported by Alexander Bokovoy (2011-10-18) who also noted: +# The law documents themselves are at +# +# <a href="http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484"> +# http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb_n/webproc4_1?id=&pf3511=41484 +# </a> + # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # Most of Ukraine since 1970 has been like Kiev. @@ -2665,8 +2725,7 @@ 3:00 - MSK 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 - EET 1992 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 - 2:00 EU EE%sT 2011 Mar lastSun 1:00u - 3:00 - FET # Further-eastern European Time + 2:00 EU EE%sT # Ruthenia used CET 1990/1991. # "Uzhhorod" is the transliteration of the Ukrainian name, but # "Uzhgorod" is more common in English. --- northamerica 2011/10/07 06:36:36 1.2 +++ northamerica 2011/10/15 03:17:28 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)northamerica 8.49 +# @(#)northamerica 8.50 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- southamerica 2011/10/08 02:30:24 1.3 +++ southamerica 2011/10/15 03:46:37 @@ -1,5 +1,5 @@ # <pre> -# @(#)southamerica 8.50 +# @(#)southamerica 8.52 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. @@ -818,6 +818,19 @@ # oficial agency about time in Brazil, and she confirmed that the old rule is # still in force. +# From Guilherme Bernardes Rodrigues (2011-10-14) +# It's official, the President signed a decree that includes Bahia in summer +# time. +# [ and in a second message (same day): ] +# I found the decree. +# +# DECRETO No- 7.584, DE 13 DE OUTUBRO DE 2011 +# Link : +# <a href="http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina…"> +# http://www.in.gov.br/visualiza/index.jsp?data=13/10/2011&jornal=1000&pagina… +# </a> + + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV20466.htm">20,466</a> (1931-10-01) # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/HV21896.htm">21,896</a> (1932-01-10) @@ -1054,10 +1067,8 @@ # of America/Salvador. Zone America/Bahia -2:34:04 - LMT 1914 -3:00 Brazil BR%sT 2003 Sep 24 - -3:00 - BRT -# as noted above, not yet in operation. -# -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 -# -3:00 Brazil BR%sT + -3:00 - BRT 2011 Oct 16 + -3:00 Brazil BR%sT # # Goias (GO), Distrito Federal (DF), Minas Gerais (MG), # Espirito Santo (ES), Rio de Janeiro (RJ), Sao Paulo (SP), Parana (PR),

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Chicago on Eastern Time in 1936
by Garrett Wollman Oct. 23, 2011

Oct. 23, 2011

There are no comments in the "northamerica" file explaining Chicago's brief stint on EST. I ran across a small article in /Broadcasting/ magazine (dated November 11, 1935), which read thus: Chicago Going EST CHICAGO'S radio goes on a time parity with New York March 1, 1936, when by order of the City Council it will push its clocks forward an hour and function on Eastern Standard Time the year round. The ruling of the council, however, does not provide for pushing the clocks forward still another hour when New York and many other cities go on Daylight Savings Time during the summer. Nevertheless, the parity of time between Chicago and the East is expected to ease radio scheduling considerably, especially of programs keyed to networks from Chicago. -GAWollman

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