- tz - lists.iana.org

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:52 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: > I just wanted to add my voice to that of others. > You are out of line. > Please be more polite and respectful or you are likely to be ignored, > and certainly your concerns will be marginalized. My concern is having a correct as possible tzdb. If my concerns will be marginalized, it would be "marginalizing" the goal of having bugs fixed. I never have respect towards bugs, I am happy to make them better visible by posting them on the list. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

5 6

Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

was: [tz] proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.oz.au> wrote: > Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 04:11:55 +0200 > From: Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> > Message-ID: <CAAGevbVsY5SEs=3NGyau7T_aLW+W0cV18tofP3d_aDfjTw1M0w(a)mail.gmail.com> > > | Putting something into the wrong timezone is by definition having a > | bug in the TIMEZONE database. > > No, once again, it is not, or not in any way that is important. There was no claim of importance, the claim only was that there is a bug. > | > If the comments in the zone file are wrong, > | > we should certainly fix them sometime, > | Now you change your opinion? > > No, not at all, we fix erroneous comments, but erroneous comments are > not a bug, as they don't affect the results, Of course they do. If one selects timezone Asia/Baku based on a comment that this is the tz zone for Chicago then one would get false offsets and false transitions. > they're just a minor > insignificant error. Not to me, and maybe not for the people trying to find the Chicago zone data. > Like any error, such things should get fixed, > but like other irrelevant errors, fixing them isn't urgent. Not for me. > | Any prove that all the view at > | http://stats.grok.se/en/201204/List_of_tz_database_time_zones > | are from list members? > > List members can do whatever they like, and some of the people on > this list (and associated with this project) certainly do attempt to > make maps of timezones in one way or another. That's all fine, but > it is not this project. I didn't claim that. Your claim was " ...comments .... have no real importance and are generally only ever even seen by the people on this list (no-one else is really very likely to read through all of that stuff -...)" You provide no proof that the views of the Wikipedia page in question came only from list members. In absence of this, I think your claim is false. > | >(no-one else is really very likely to > | > read through all of that stuff - zic certainly doesn't care.) > | I read the comments before I was a list member. > > Sure, there are people who look at this stuff, but not very many > compared with the number of people who use the real product of this > project - which is the zone database. Can you tell a way of how a user determines the correct zone for a random location in Indiana, selecting between America/Indiana/Indianapolis America/Indiana/Vincennes America/Indiana/Winamac America/Indiana/Marengo America/Indiana/Petersburg America/Indiana/Vevay America/Kentucky/Louisville America/New York without reading the comments? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

7 14

zone.tab comment for Europe/Volgograd
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea tzdata2012c/europe # Astrakhanskaya oblast', Kirovskaya oblast', Saratovskaya oblast', # Volgogradskaya oblast'. ... Zone Europe/Volgograd Propose: zone.tab Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Astrakhan, Kirov, Saratov, Volgograd Reasoning: "Astrakhan, Kirov, Saratov, Volgograd" refers to federal subjects (1st level country subdivisions), while "Caspian Sea" to a lake only. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia The federal subjects of Russia that are bordering the Caspian Sea are 05 Dagestan 08 Kalmykia 20 Chechnya 30 Astrakhan Dagestan, Kalmykia, Chechnya according to the europe file are located in Zone Europe/Moscow. Only Astrakhan is contained in both groups (Caspian Sea neigbor, Zone Europe/Volgograd member). So Caspian Sea in the comment column is not only imprecise but actually misleading. The comment for Europe/Moscow in zone.tab is Moscow+00 - west Russia a comment that does not list Dagestan, Kalmykia, Chechnya. Therefore a reader could not deduct that these three, out of four Caspian Sea neighbors among the federal subjects, don't belong to "Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea". -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

zone.tab comment for Asia/Irkutsk
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c\zone.tab "Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal" tzdata2012c\europe # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Respublika Buryatiya, Irkutskaya oblast', # Ust'-Ordynskij Buryatskij avtonomnyj okrug. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ust-Orda_Buryat_Okrug "Ust-Orda Buryatia, is an administrative division of Irkutsk Oblast" " It was a federal subject of Russia (an autonomous okrug of Irkutsk Oblast) from 1993 to January 1, 2008, when it merged with Irkutsk Oblast (it also had autonomous okrug status from September 26, 1937 to 1993" Propose: zone.tab "Moscow+05 - Irkutsk, Buryatia" europe Add a notice of merge. Reasoning: "Irkutsk, Buryatia" refers to federal subjects (1st level country subdivisions), while "Lake Baikal" to a lake only. But the zone covers the area of the two federal subjects. Do it similar to the 2nd level country subdivision comments for these US zones: America/Kentucky/Monticello Eastern Time - Kentucky - Wayne County America/Indiana/Indianapolis Eastern Time - Indiana - most locations America/Indiana/Vincennes Eastern Time - Indiana - Daviess, Dubois, Knox & Martin Counties America/Indiana/Winamac Eastern Time - Indiana - Pulaski County America/Indiana/Marengo Eastern Time - Indiana - Crawford County America/Indiana/Petersburg Eastern Time - Indiana - Pike County America/Indiana/Vevay Eastern Time - Indiana - Switzerland County -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Sakhalin bug - seven months past - still not fixed
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

reported 2011-09-16 by Alexander Krivenyshev http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008798.html 2012-09-22 Tobias Conradi proposes new zone Asia/Yuzhno-Kurilsk http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008845.html 2012-10-02 Arthur David Olson starts the last thread in 2012 covering this Sakhalin bug http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008933.html ----- This may need a zone creation similar to the ones in the Sakha Republic. The Sakha summary may contain all needed laws: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017688.html If I have time, the bug is open and I am still allowed to post to the tz mailing list I may mail a deeper analyze of the needed fix, similar to the one I did create for the Sakha Republic. If not, this posting here may serve simply as a reminder. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Catfighting (was: Re: Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world)
by Doug Ewell May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

>>>> in a manner that often comes across as rude and offensive. >>> That is your interpretation. >> >> That is not his interpretation, that is very likely >> the interpretation by the vast majority of people on this list. > An interpretation can be shared by different people. I didn't wrote > that it would be exclusively his interpretation. > >> Stop being aggressive. Stop being abrasive. >> Stop being condescending. > Again, lack of any evidence for that to have been happened. > >> Start saying "please", > You mean like in my first posting this year Wow, this sure isn't what I signed up for on this list. I guess I'll unsubscribe and just poll the IANA page to find out about updates to the tz database. Sorry for sticking my nose into the boudoir. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA http://www.ewellic.org | @DougEwell

2 1

Notification of new releases only
by James Diebel May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Hello, I'm a user of the tz database, but not a contributor. I would like to receive notification of when a new release has been issued, but without receiving the messages between contributors debating the merits of various proposed changes. Is there a way to configure my mailing list subscription to only receive release notifications? Or is there some other method by which I can receive release notifications without checking the web site every day? If this is not possible, perhaps the subject line of a message announcing a new release could always contain some keywords so that I could write a mail filter to archive non-release-announcement messages? And do such new release announcements always come from the same person? That would also help. Thanks! Cheers, James

6 5

So who is this KRE person, anyway?
by David Braverman May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

A number of posts to the list recently have concerned me greatly. It appears that people new to this list may not know of Robert Elz's contributions, or why we* other contributors generally accord him the deference we do. What follows is my own opinion, though I hope it reflects the consensus view. Back in September, when Astrolabe sued list coordinators Arthur Olson and Paul Eggert over the time zone database, KRE immediately stepped up to keep the database available. He provided server space and technical support following the database's removal from the National Institutes of Health (where it had lived from its inception); he insulated the list from the U.S. courts; he made sure that the subsequent database updates got published when necessary; and he did myriad other things that showed his commitment to the database and its users. Now that the lawsuit is gone, and Paul Eggert has officially taken over as coordinator, KRE has less of a formal role than he did as the de facto coordinator during the crisis. But even a casual scan through the list's archives will show he's long been one of the most conscientious and helpful contributors for years. He has earned my respect since I've been contributing to the list; I suspect I'm not alone. Of course, all of this is evident from the list's archives. I would suggest to anyone new to a mailing list or online community-as people have suggested, no doubt with similar effect, since the ancient days of the WELL, CompuServe, and dial-up BBSs-that reading a list's archives can answer a lot of questions, including about the community's structures and relationships, and can prevent unfortunate misunderstandings from taking over the conversation. I hope this clarifies why recent posts have generated some, shall I say, strongly-worded responses. I also hope we can now return to our regular discussion of what times the world's clocks are showing. David Braverman Inner Drive Technology https://www.inner-drive.com/Demo/Timezones.aspx * We, in this context, means those of us expressing these opinions. I think I speak for everyone here when I say no one speaks for everyone here.

1 0

Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:43 PM, Bennett Todd <bet(a)rahul.net> wrote: > Please stop unproductive provocation on this list. Any quote for an "unproductive provocation on this list"? >It doesn't advance the > maintenance of the zoneinfo database, Can be tested after you give a quote. >and it doesn't make you look good. I don't care about how I look, when mailing to the tz mailing list. When I email to the tz mailing list, I care about the correctness of the tzdb and statements made in other mailings related to that. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0

Re: [tz] Theory - typo - simplifes -> simplyfies
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Even bug reports can contain bugs. T On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 8:03 PM, David Zülke <david.zuelke(a)bitextender.com> wrote: > On 08.05.2012, at 19:29, Tobias Conradi wrote: > >> tzcode2012b/Theory >> >> Indicate to humans as to where that region is. This simplifes use. >> >> simplifes -> simplyfies > > It's "simplifies". Get your own facts straight before you waste everyone's time with nonsensical "input" like this. I bet you'll follow up with another message in two months, subject "Two month past [sic] - still not fixed". > > David > > -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

1 0