- tz - lists.iana.org

Re: why the different MST7MDT zoneinfo files?
by Paul Eggert Dec. 25, 2000

Dec. 25, 2000

> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:41:17 -0500 > From: Ben Collins <bcollins(a)debian.org> > > I'm not too familiar with zoneinfo symantics, but I need to follow up on > a Debian bug report. A user noticed these different MST7MDT zoneinfo > files, and that the SystemV ones have the incorrect DST. Why are they > different? Shouldn't the all be the same? > > f1937d0d3ed3a6cf9ca44e04cb4d8509 /usr/share/zoneinfo/MST7MDT > f1937d0d3ed3a6cf9ca44e04cb4d8509 /usr/share/zoneinfo/posix/MST7MDT > 1ac36e9eb32fbeb87af9921ba5b58850 /usr/share/zoneinfo/posix/SystemV/MST7MDT > 65cbdc206e84bf90b10fabb30c13e9b1 /usr/share/zoneinfo/right/MST7MDT > b4885b6a643d6a8c6e5e1f7de5180650 /usr/share/zoneinfo/right/SystemV/MST7MDT > 1ac36e9eb32fbeb87af9921ba5b58850 /usr/share/zoneinfo/SystemV/MST7MDT The SystemV stuff is for compatibility with ancient hosts, none of which must be operating any more, as they mishandle US daylight saving time past 1987. We should obsolete those entries, for the same reason that US/Pacific-PET was removed in 1994: they are far more likely to cause problems than to solve them. The "posix" vs "right" difference is for leap second support. "posix" ignores leap seconds, whereas "right" does not. I suppose we shouldn't just remove the SystemV stuff right away, as there might be some hosts that (mistakenly) use it. But my next proposed patch can replace it with this for now: Link America/Halifax SystemV/AST4ADT Link America/New_York SystemV/EST5EDT Link America/Chicago SystemV/CST6CDT Link America/Denver SystemV/MST7MDT Link America/Los_Angeles SystemV/PST8PDT Link America/Anchorage SystemV/YST9YDT Link America/Puerto_Rico SystemV/AST4 Link America/Indianapolis SystemV/EST5 Link America/Regina SystemV/CST6 Link America/Phoenix SystemV/MST7 Link Pacific/Pitcairn SystemV/PST8 Link Pacific/Gambier SystemV/YST9 Link America/Honolulu SystemV/HST10

1 0

[rfc] why the different MST7MDT zoneinfo files?
by Ben Collins Dec. 24, 2000

Dec. 24, 2000

I'm not too familiar with zoneinfo symantics, but I need to follow up on a Debian bug report. A user noticed these different MST7MDT zoneinfo files, and that the SystemV ones have the incorrect DST. Why are they different? Shouldn't the all be the same? f1937d0d3ed3a6cf9ca44e04cb4d8509 /usr/share/zoneinfo/MST7MDT f1937d0d3ed3a6cf9ca44e04cb4d8509 /usr/share/zoneinfo/posix/MST7MDT 1ac36e9eb32fbeb87af9921ba5b58850 /usr/share/zoneinfo/posix/SystemV/MST7MDT 65cbdc206e84bf90b10fabb30c13e9b1 /usr/share/zoneinfo/right/MST7MDT b4885b6a643d6a8c6e5e1f7de5180650 /usr/share/zoneinfo/right/SystemV/MST7MDT 1ac36e9eb32fbeb87af9921ba5b58850 /usr/share/zoneinfo/SystemV/MST7MDT Thanks, and happy holidays, Ben -- -----------=======-=-======-=========-----------=====------------=-=------ / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` bcollins(a)debian.org -- bcollins(a)openldap.org -- bcollins(a)linux.com ' `---=========------=======-------------=-=-----=-===-======-------=--=---'

1 0

[patch] timezone/zdump.c: combine strings for easier localization
by Ben Collins Dec. 24, 2000

Dec. 24, 2000

(From the Debian bug report) Please apply this (untested) patch so that I can use the correct form of "standard output" in the Finnish message catalog. ("Standard output" alone would be "vakiotuloste" but when used as an object, it must become "vakiotulostetta".) (end bug report) 2000-12-24 Ben Collins <bcollins(a)debian.org> * timezone/zdump.c: Combine strings so that localization is a better. Patch from Kalle Olavi Niemitalo <tosi(a)ees2.oulu.fi> -- -----------=======-=-======-=========-----------=====------------=-=------ / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` bcollins(a)debian.org -- bcollins(a)openldap.org -- bcollins(a)linux.com ' `---=========------=======-------------=-=-----=-===-======-------=--=---'

1 0

tzcode2000h.tar.gz and tzdata2000h.tar.gz
by Olson, Arthur David (NCI) Dec. 23, 2000

Dec. 23, 2000

The files ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzcode2000h.tar.gz and ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2000h.tar.gz are now available. These include the changes circulated by Paul Eggert to the time zone mailing last week, along with one typo fix in the "art" file. With providence, this is the last update of the millenium. --ado

3 3

Savings
by Oscar van Vlijmen Dec. 22, 2000

Dec. 22, 2000

The dictionary says "daylight saving time" (Webster). Several files in the TZ distribution still have "savings" for our daylight! Data folder: asia: 10x australasia: 6x europe: 2x northamerica: 4x southamerica: 1x Code folder: date.c: 1x usno1995, 1997, 1998: each 1x, but one should leave "originals" as is. I cannot produce a diff file, so I hope I may leave this to someone who likes to dot i's. Regards, Oscar van Vlijmen 2000-12-22

2 1

Re: time in France during World War II
by Paul Eggert Dec. 21, 2000

Dec. 21, 2000

> From: "Ciro Discepolo" <discepol(a)tin.it> > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:51:12 +0100 > If it can be you useful I point out you a breve (it doesn't > complete) bibliography on the matter treated in our letters. > Henri Le Corre, Régimes Horaires pour le monde entier, Éditions > Traditionnelles - Paris 2 books, 1993 > Gabriel, Traité de l'heure dans le monde, Guy Trédaniel éditeur, Paris, 1991 > Françoise Gauquelin, Problèmes de l'heure résolus en astrologie, Guy > trédaniel, Paris 1987 Thanks; I'll add a comment about these. > As you can read from the attached file, according to Le Corre, and > according to also other authors, in France, in 1943, there was a > double daylight saving time, both in the busy zones and in the zones > freed by the Germans. Le Corre is not consistent about whether he means local time or Universal Time. I think most of his data use Universal Time, but his first line "Du 15/03/1891, 0h01 au 11/03/1911, 0h01 = GMT + 0h09m21s" must be referring to local time; it wouldn't make sense as Universal Time. Three years ago Denis Excoffier checked our tables against the Ephemerides Astronomiques for 1998 from Bureau des Longitudes. I recall that an advantage of that source is that it explicitly gives the Universal Time for each transition. Unfortunately it is not available on the web as far as I know. I don't recall what it had to say about Paris during the war, either, unfortunately. Assuming Le Colle means Universal Time for most times, I see the following discrepancies between your attached page and our current tables: * Shanks has the 1911 switch at 1911-03-11 00:00; Le Corre has it at 00:01. Let's go with Le Corre here, since he has more detail. * The transitions between 1976 and 1978 are a hodgepodge. I think our tables agree with Le Corre only if we assume some of Le Corre's times are local time, and some are UTC; but this doesn't really make sense. I'd rather get some confirming data. * Shanks writes that Paris observed German time under occupation, whereas Le Corre has it observing the same as Vichy time starting on 1942-11-02. This is the discrepancy that you observe. I am inclined to agree with Le Corre. * Shanks writes that Paris reverted to the previous French rules between 1944-08-25 and 1945-09-16, whereas Le Corre has Paris continuing to observe the same time as occupied France. Here Shanks's story seems more plausible, though of course Le Corre could be right as well. I wish I had confirmation of Le Corre's data, or knew where he got his information from. Are there references in his book for this data?

1 0

Re: Some little errors
by Paul Eggert Dec. 20, 2000

Dec. 20, 2000

> From: "Ciro Discepolo" <discepol(a)tin.it> > Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:35:44 +0100 > From a lot of specialist books (for example Le Corre's book or > Gabriel's book) I receive the information that in France, in the year > 1943, and precisely from October 4, there was a double daylight saving > time. Can you please give more precise references? I'm not familiar with those books. The discrepancy may be due to which part of France you're talking about. Our current database (taken from Shanks; see below) has Vichy France using double daylight saving time (DDST) from 03-29 02:00 to 10-04 03:00 that year, so we agree about the DDST there. According to Shanks, Occupied France used German time, which meant the same wall-clock time but with different underlying rules. German time was an hour ahead of UTC, with single DST during summer. Vichy France time was at UTC, with single DST in winter and double DST in summer. (It is a bit odd that we have better data for France in 1944 than we do for Palestine in 2000; but that's how the cookie is crumbling.) > In Italy, in 1944, there was a double situation: in the northern cities > of the Gothic line (around Bologna) daylight saving time was excluded on > October 2. Instead, in the southern cities of Gothic line, this daylight > saving time, was excluded on September 17. Yes, that's quite plausible. Northern Italy was still running on German time. However, we don't need a separate entry for Bologna since it is in the same country as Rome and has used the same time rules since 1970, our cutoff date. Did San Marino use the same rules as Rome back then? Currently our database says that it does. That might need correcting. > In Italy, after 1866, the whole nation was divided in three parts: the > continental part, the Sicily part and the Sardinia part, with three > different time zones. You can read about it in the Regio Decreto (king > decree) number 3224 in the year 1866. I think I'll add a comment like this to the file, to help make things clearer: # From Paul Eggert (2000-12-19): # Sicily and Sardinia each had their own time zones from 1866 to 1893. # During World War II, German-controlled Italy used German time. # But these events all occurred before our 1970 cutoff, # so we need to record only the time in Rome. > But, if you have forgotten these items, it is even possible that there > are many others items left out? Many items are left out. Please see the "Theory" file and look for the string "1970". > Please, I have another little query for you: do you know a software or a > DLL (library) that includes all the correct world time-zones? Sorry, there is no such thing. But you might look for "Shanks" in the tz-link.htm file; he has perhaps the best historical database right now. > ------=_NextPart_000_00A5_01C069E2.1DAE6E30 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you please fix your copy of Outlook Express so that you send text mail as plain text, and not as MIME multipart? That makes it easier for others to read. I get lots of email, and html is harder to process than plain text. Thanks.

3 2

FW: Some little errors
by Olson, Arthur David (NCI) Dec. 19, 2000

Dec. 19, 2000

Ciro Discepolo is not on the time zone mailing list; direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Ciro Discepolo [mailto:discepol@tin.it] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 11:36 AM To: tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov Subject: Some little errors Dear Sirs,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I'd like to give you my compliments for your enormous work in the time-zone file of the whole world. I am working on this file to obtain a second file for one of mine specific applications. Unfortunately I have found some little errors or I think that these are some errors. I'd like to explain these points. First of all >From a lot of specialist books (for example Le Corre's book or Gabriel's book) I receive the information that in France, in the year 1943, and precisely from October 4, there was a double daylight saving time. This fact is not present in your database as you can see lower: # France # # Shanks seems to use `24:00' ambiguously; we resolve it with Whitman. # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule France 1916 only - Jun 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1916 1919 - Oct Sun>=1 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1917 only - Mar 24 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1918 only - Mar 9 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1919 only - Mar 1 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1920 only - Feb 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1920 only - Oct 23 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1921 only - Mar 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1921 only - Oct 25 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1922 only - Mar 25 23:00s 1:00 S # DSH writes that a law of 1923-05-24 specified 3rd Sat in Apr at 23:00 to 1st # Sat in Oct at 24:00; and that in 1930, because of Easter, the transitions # were Apr 12 and Oct 5. Go with Shanks. Rule France 1922 1938 - Oct Sat>=1 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1923 only - May 26 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1924 only - Mar 29 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1925 only - Apr 4 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1926 only - Apr 17 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1927 only - Apr 9 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1928 only - Apr 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1929 only - Apr 20 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1930 only - Apr 12 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1931 only - Apr 18 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1932 only - Apr 2 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1933 only - Mar 25 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1934 only - Apr 7 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1935 only - Mar 30 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1936 only - Apr 18 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1937 only - Apr 3 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1938 only - Mar 26 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1939 only - Apr 15 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1939 only - Nov 18 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1940 only - Feb 25 2:00 1:00 S # The French rules for 1941-1944 were not used in Paris, # but were used in other places (e.g. Monaco). Rule France 1941 only - May 5 0:00 2:00 M # Midsummer # Shanks says this transition occurred at Oct 6 1:00, # but go with Denis.Excoffier(a)ens.fr (1997-12-12), # who quotes the Ephemerides Astronomiques for 1998 from Bureau des Longitudes # as saying 5/10/41 22hUT. Rule France 1941 only - Oct 6 0:00 1:00 S Rule France 1942 only - Mar 9 0:00 2:00 M Rule France 1942 only - Nov 2 3:00 1:00 S Rule France 1943 only - Mar 29 2:00 2:00 M Rule France 1943 only - Oct 4 3:00 1:00 S Rule France 1944 only - Apr 3 2:00 2:00 M Rule France 1944 only - Oct 8 1:00 1:00 S Rule France 1945 only - Apr 2 2:00 2:00 M Rule France 1945 only - Sep 16 3:00 0 - # Shanks gives Mar 28 2:00 and Sep 26 3:00; # go with Excoffier's 28/3/76 0hUT and 25/9/76 23hUT. Rule France 1976 only - Mar 28 1:00 1:00 S Rule France 1976 only - Sep 26 1:00 0 - # Shanks gives 0:09 for Paris Mean Time, and Whitman gives 0:09:05, # but Howse quotes the actual French legislation as saying 0:09:21. # Go with Howse. Howse writes that the time in France was officially based # on PMT-0:09:21 until 1978-08-09, when the time base finally switched to UTC. # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Paris 0:09:21 - LMT 1891 Mar 15 0:01 0:09:21 - PMT 1911 Mar 11 # Paris Mean Time # Shanks gives 1940 Jun 14 0:00; go with Excoffier's 14/6/40 22hUT. 0:00 France WE%sT 1940 Jun 14 23:00 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 25 0:00 France WE%sT 1945 Sep 16 3:00 1:00 France CE%sT 1977 1:00 EU CE%sT The second fact In Italy, in 1944, there was a double situation: in the northern cities of the Gothic line (around Bologna) daylight saving time was excluded on October 2. Instead, in the southern cities of Gothic line, this daylight saving time, was excluded on September 17. This historic reference has been proven by the Gazzetta Ufficiale (Official Government Journal). But this reference is not in your database. The third fact In Italy, after 1866, the whole nation was divided in three parts: the continental part, the Sicily part and the Sardinia part, with three different time zones. You can read about it in the Regio Decreto (king decree) number 3224 in the year 1866. But even this aspect is not present in your work. Now I am asking myself: maybe I have not read well or these notices could have beeen left out by you? But, if you have forgotten these items, it is even possible that there are many others items left out? Please, I have another little query for you: do you know a software or a DLL (library) that includes all the correct world time-zones? Or, is there, on the web, a more recent release or your database with these corrections about the examples that I have made before? Excuse me for disturbing you and I send you many regards and a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Ciro Discepolo www.cirodiscepolo.it <http://www.cirodiscepolo.it> discepol(a)tin.it <mailto:discepol@tin.it>

1 0

Some little errors
by Ciro Discepolo Dec. 19, 2000

Dec. 19, 2000

Dear Sirs, I'd like to give you my compliments for your enormous work in the time-zone file of the whole world. I am working on this file to obtain a second file for one of mine specific applications. Unfortunately I have found some little errors or I think that these are some errors. I'd like to explain these points. First of all >From a lot of specialist books (for example Le Corre's book or Gabriel's book) I receive the information that in France, in the year 1943, and precisely from October 4, there was a double daylight saving time. This fact is not present in your database as you can see lower: # France # # Shanks seems to use `24:00' ambiguously; we resolve it with Whitman. # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule France 1916 only - Jun 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1916 1919 - Oct Sun>=1 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1917 only - Mar 24 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1918 only - Mar 9 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1919 only - Mar 1 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1920 only - Feb 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1920 only - Oct 23 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1921 only - Mar 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1921 only - Oct 25 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1922 only - Mar 25 23:00s 1:00 S # DSH writes that a law of 1923-05-24 specified 3rd Sat in Apr at 23:00 to 1st # Sat in Oct at 24:00; and that in 1930, because of Easter, the transitions # were Apr 12 and Oct 5. Go with Shanks. Rule France 1922 1938 - Oct Sat>=1 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1923 only - May 26 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1924 only - Mar 29 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1925 only - Apr 4 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1926 only - Apr 17 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1927 only - Apr 9 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1928 only - Apr 14 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1929 only - Apr 20 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1930 only - Apr 12 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1931 only - Apr 18 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1932 only - Apr 2 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1933 only - Mar 25 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1934 only - Apr 7 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1935 only - Mar 30 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1936 only - Apr 18 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1937 only - Apr 3 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1938 only - Mar 26 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1939 only - Apr 15 23:00s 1:00 S Rule France 1939 only - Nov 18 23:00s 0 - Rule France 1940 only - Feb 25 2:00 1:00 S # The French rules for 1941-1944 were not used in Paris, # but were used in other places (e.g. Monaco). Rule France 1941 only - May 5 0:00 2:00 M # Midsummer # Shanks says this transition occurred at Oct 6 1:00, # but go with Denis.Excoffier(a)ens.fr (1997-12-12), # who quotes the Ephemerides Astronomiques for 1998 from Bureau des Longitudes # as saying 5/10/41 22hUT. Rule France 1941 only - Oct 6 0:00 1:00 S Rule France 1942 only - Mar 9 0:00 2:00 M Rule France 1942 only - Nov 2 3:00 1:00 S Rule France 1943 only - Mar 29 2:00 2:00 M Rule France 1943 only - Oct 4 3:00 1:00 S Rule France 1944 only - Apr 3 2:00 2:00 M Rule France 1944 only - Oct 8 1:00 1:00 S Rule France 1945 only - Apr 2 2:00 2:00 M Rule France 1945 only - Sep 16 3:00 0 - # Shanks gives Mar 28 2:00 and Sep 26 3:00; # go with Excoffier's 28/3/76 0hUT and 25/9/76 23hUT. Rule France 1976 only - Mar 28 1:00 1:00 S Rule France 1976 only - Sep 26 1:00 0 - # Shanks gives 0:09 for Paris Mean Time, and Whitman gives 0:09:05, # but Howse quotes the actual French legislation as saying 0:09:21. # Go with Howse. Howse writes that the time in France was officially based # on PMT-0:09:21 until 1978-08-09, when the time base finally switched to UTC. # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Europe/Paris 0:09:21 - LMT 1891 Mar 15 0:01 0:09:21 - PMT 1911 Mar 11 # Paris Mean Time # Shanks gives 1940 Jun 14 0:00; go with Excoffier's 14/6/40 22hUT. 0:00 France WE%sT 1940 Jun 14 23:00 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1944 Aug 25 0:00 France WE%sT 1945 Sep 16 3:00 1:00 France CE%sT 1977 1:00 EU CE%sT The second fact In Italy, in 1944, there was a double situation: in the northern cities of the Gothic line (around Bologna) daylight saving time was excluded on October 2. Instead, in the southern cities of Gothic line, this daylight saving time, was excluded on September 17. This historic reference has been proven by the Gazzetta Ufficiale (Official Government Journal). But this reference is not in your database. The third fact In Italy, after 1866, the whole nation was divided in three parts: the continental part, the Sicily part and the Sardinia part, with three different time zones. You can read about it in the Regio Decreto (king decree) number 3224 in the year 1866. But even this aspect is not present in your work. Now I am asking myself: maybe I have not read well or these notices could have beeen left out by you? But, if you have forgotten these items, it is even possible that there are many others items left out? Please, I have another little query for you: do you know a software or a DLL (library) that includes all the correct world time-zones? Or, is there, on the web, a more recent release or your database with these corrections about the examples that I have made before? Excuse me for disturbing you and I send you many regards and a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year Ciro Discepolo www.cirodiscepolo.it discepol(a)tin.it

1 0

RE: Book on time
by Olson, Arthur David (NCI) Dec. 19, 2000

Dec. 19, 2000

> From: alan(a)allm-geodata.com [mailto:alan@allm-geodata.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 8:53 AM > ... > I came across this book in my local bookshop. It may be of interest > > Clark, Blaise > Time lord: Sir Sandford Fleming and the creation of standard time > Wiedenfeld & Nicholson, 2000. > ... The publisher for the United States of America is Random House; publication is due in March of 2001. --ado

1 0