From: "Ciro Discepolo" <discepol@tin.it> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:35:44 +0100
From a lot of specialist books (for example Le Corre's book or Gabriel's book) I receive the information that in France, in the year 1943, and precisely from October 4, there was a double daylight saving time.
Can you please give more precise references? I'm not familiar with those books. The discrepancy may be due to which part of France you're talking about. Our current database (taken from Shanks; see below) has Vichy France using double daylight saving time (DDST) from 03-29 02:00 to 10-04 03:00 that year, so we agree about the DDST there. According to Shanks, Occupied France used German time, which meant the same wall-clock time but with different underlying rules. German time was an hour ahead of UTC, with single DST during summer. Vichy France time was at UTC, with single DST in winter and double DST in summer. (It is a bit odd that we have better data for France in 1944 than we do for Palestine in 2000; but that's how the cookie is crumbling.)
In Italy, in 1944, there was a double situation: in the northern cities of the Gothic line (around Bologna) daylight saving time was excluded on October 2. Instead, in the southern cities of Gothic line, this daylight saving time, was excluded on September 17.
Yes, that's quite plausible. Northern Italy was still running on German time. However, we don't need a separate entry for Bologna since it is in the same country as Rome and has used the same time rules since 1970, our cutoff date. Did San Marino use the same rules as Rome back then? Currently our database says that it does. That might need correcting.
In Italy, after 1866, the whole nation was divided in three parts: the continental part, the Sicily part and the Sardinia part, with three different time zones. You can read about it in the Regio Decreto (king decree) number 3224 in the year 1866.
I think I'll add a comment like this to the file, to help make things clearer: # From Paul Eggert (2000-12-19): # Sicily and Sardinia each had their own time zones from 1866 to 1893. # During World War II, German-controlled Italy used German time. # But these events all occurred before our 1970 cutoff, # so we need to record only the time in Rome.
But, if you have forgotten these items, it is even possible that there are many others items left out?
Many items are left out. Please see the "Theory" file and look for the string "1970".
Please, I have another little query for you: do you know a software or a DLL (library) that includes all the correct world time-zones?
Sorry, there is no such thing. But you might look for "Shanks" in the tz-link.htm file; he has perhaps the best historical database right now.
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Can you please fix your copy of Outlook Express so that you send text mail as plain text, and not as MIME multipart? That makes it easier for others to read. I get lots of email, and html is harder to process than plain text. Thanks.
On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Paul Eggert wrote:
From: "Ciro Discepolo" <discepol@tin.it> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:35:44 +0100
From a lot of specialist books (for example Le Corre's book or Gabriel's book) I receive the information that in France, in the year 1943, and precisely from October 4, there was a double daylight saving time.
Can you please give more precise references? I'm not familiar with those books.
In Italy, after 1866, the whole nation was divided in three parts: the continental part, the Sicily part and the Sardinia part, with three different time zones. You can read about it in the Regio Decreto (king decree) number 3224 in the year 1866.
I think I'll add a comment like this to the file, to help make things clearer:
# From Paul Eggert (2000-12-19): # Sicily and Sardinia each had their own time zones from 1866 to 1893. # During World War II, German-controlled Italy used German time. # But these events all occurred before our 1970 cutoff, # so we need to record only the time in Rome.
But, if you have forgotten these items, it is even possible that there are many others items left out?
Perhaps you might like to produce a detailed account along the lines of http://student.cusu.cam.ac.uk/~jsm28/british-time/ for France and Italy? That is, with detailed references to and analyses of all relevant laws, past and present, with reference where appropriate to archives, parliamentary proceedings, etc. to fill things out? Officially published summary data cannot necessarily be relied upon; it is essentially necessary to check through every year's indexes to laws/orders for anything relevant (and to trace backwards references to laws amended or repealed, etc.), including any local or regional laws if applicable, and where in doubt about the precise effect or whether anything might have been missed, to check any relevant archives (which may also provide some colour, e.g. people complaining about the changes). See for example some of my messages in the tz list archives (ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzarchive.gz) about various records found in the Public Record Office. -- Joseph S. Myers jsm28@cam.ac.uk
Paul Eggert wrote:
From: "Ciro Discepolo" <discepol@tin.it> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:35:44 +0100
In Italy, in 1944, there was a double situation: in the northern cities of the Gothic line (around Bologna) daylight saving time was excluded on October 2. Instead, in the southern cities of Gothic line, this daylight saving time, was excluded on September 17.
Yes, that's quite plausible. Northern Italy was still running on German time. However, we don't need a separate entry for Bologna since it is in the same country as Rome and has used the same time rules since 1970, our cutoff date.
It would be rather an entry for Milano (the most populated city). Bologna is just a country on the then border, to help people (like me) figure where the line were.
Did San Marino use the same rules as Rome back then?
San Marino, like Vatican, is quite southern from Bologna, so should have followed the same rules as Rome, rather than the rules fro the Northern part ("Milano"). This is a pure guess based only on geographical data. I did not check about the real laws. Antoine
participants (3)
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Antoine Leca -
Joseph S. Myers -
Paul Eggert