- tz - lists.iana.org

Olson tz database tests
by Kevin July 23, 2007

July 23, 2007

Hi, is there an existing suite of tests (e.g. unit tests, regression tests, etc.) for the Olson time zone database (to ensure validity, completeness, etc.)? I'm more interested in the logic than the language, although I would prefer C/C++, C#, or Java. Thanks, Kevin

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More daylight savings in Australia
by Eric Ulevik July 23, 2007

July 23, 2007

The states of NSW, Victoria, ACT, Tasmania plan to harmonize DST, starting October 2007. "Under the plan, clocks will go forward one hour on the first Sunday in October, instead of on the last Sunday, and will be wound back by an hour on the first Sunday in April, rather than on the last Sunday in March." http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21549128-2,00.html Regards, Eric Ulevik

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Timezone of America/Tegucigalpa is wrong
by Freek de Kruijf July 22, 2007

July 22, 2007

L.S. The timezone of America/Tegucigalpa includes a Daylight Saving Time. This is wrong. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduras . It is only UTC-6. I can confirm this, while I am there. -- fr.gr. Freek de Kruijf

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Re: Geographical boundaries for the continental US tz zones
by rlaw＠nc.rr.com July 18, 2007

July 18, 2007

----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Eggert <eggert(a)CS.UCLA.EDU> > I send my comments to your US timezone map directly to the TZ list > since I > think it could be of common interest in the list and also to urge > members to > send comments where appropriate. I've put all of my findings about the limits of U.S. time zones (past and present) online at http://www.statoids.com/tus.html. It's all verbal description. For example: > * Idaho county split (Idaho state) > I have a northern and southern part of Idaho county, which I got from > another timezone map (possibly Manifold map). This indicates that the > southern part of Idaho county is on America/Boise time while the > northernpart is on America/Los_Angeles. I have "Idaho county north of the Salmon River" on Pacific Time. > * Sioux county North Dakota > Tz database states "part of Sioux county" and that is exactly what > you have > included, splitting it around Latitude 46 Longitude -101.34. Where > did you > get shis from? I have included all Sioux county being on same time, > but that > most be wrong. I have "Sioux county west of ND route 31" on Mountain Time. Gwillim Law

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Daviess, Dubois, Knox, Martin and Pike counties jump thru 1 more hoop
by Paul Eggert July 18, 2007

July 18, 2007

The DOT yesterday announced a proposed rule that would move the 132,000 residents of Daviess, Dubois, Knox, Martin and Pike counties in Indiana back to Eastern time, effective November 4 (when DST ends this year). The proposed rule has a 30-day public comment period, and then must be approved by the DOT to become final. See the AP article on this subject at <http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/LOCAL/707180456…>.

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FW: Implementation of zoneinfo (Olson, tz) database in .NET c-sharp csharp
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] July 18, 2007

July 18, 2007

I'm forwarding this message from Joshua Kifer, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado From: Joshua Kifer [mailto:joshua@jotts.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:33 PM To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Implementation of zoneinfo (Olson, tz) database in .NET c-sharp csharp I finally found an implementation of this at CodePlex. It's part of the PublicDomain project. http://www.codeplex.com/publicdomain I hope this post adds some search fodder to the interweb for all those unlucky bastards seeking (and not finding) the same.

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Geographical boundaries for the continental US tz zones
by Paul Eggert July 18, 2007

July 18, 2007

Jesper Norgaard Welen tried to send the following email to the list on July 1, but apparently didn't get through. I am enclosing it in the hopes that it does get through this time. From: Jesper Norgaard Welen [mailto:jnorgard@prodigy.net.mx] Sent: Domingo, 01 de Julio de 2007 16:15 To: 'tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov' Cc: 'emuller(a)adobe.com' Subject: RE: Geographical boundaries for the continental US tz zones Hello, Eric Muller I send my comments to your US timezone map directly to the TZ list since I think it could be of common interest in the list and also to urge members to send comments where appropriate. My newest map for World Time Explorer you can download from http://worldtimeexplorer.com/tztables.zip * Navajo/Hopi reservations There is an important Hopi population that you have not included around Latitude 36.14 Longitude -109.40 that I would recommend you to include (see WTE map) * Nevada on Idaho time The city Jackpot in Nevada (and several others like Owyhee and Mountain city) are on Idaho south time, or Denver time if you will. I have included it in a 25 km broad strip of northern Elko county, however just based on common sense when there were cities 12 km below the border that were on Denver time, and I would not expect their time to stop 100 meters outside the city boundary, but note that it is arbitrary, and quite possibly not quite 25 km. Jackpot itself is quite close to the border to Idaho. * Idaho county split (Idaho state) I have a northern and southern part of Idaho county, which I got from another timezone map (possibly Manifold map). This indicates that the southern part of Idaho county is on America/Boise time while the northern part is on America/Los_Angeles. Note that this is *not* documented in the tz database - I am still a bit ambivalent which one to believe. If you want pure tz database functionality, the timezone border should be a little further south. * Alaska I have the same doubts as you. However, I have implemented a solution, however arbitrary it is, seems much better than just putting Juneau for all of Alaska. The Nome area is small, while most of northwestern Alaska is set to Anchorage time. Then there is a Yakutat area and a Juneau area. They are all based on counties in this area. Comments are welcome. * America/Kentucky/Louisville This city belongs to Jefferson county of Kentucky, so I just assumed that this would comprise the Louisville timezone - however tz database needs to describe this - and include more counties if there are more. It just states the vague "part of Kentucky". * Sioux county North Dakota Tz database states "part of Sioux county" and that is exactly what you have included, splitting it around Latitude 46 Longitude -101.34. Where did you get shis from? I have included all Sioux county being on same time, but that most be wrong. * Cherry county Nebraska I see you have a different, more detailed split of Cherry county than mine. Where did you get this from? * Morgan county, Tennessee I recently discovered that this county is on CST/CDT, and included this in the western part of Tennesse. It's around Latitude 36.07 Longitude -84.56 * Alabama Note that (parts of) Chambers, Lee and Russell counties should be on America/New_York time, not on America/Chicago time. * Culberson county, Texas Note that the parts of this county including Nickel creek and Pine Springs are on America/Denver time. Regards, - Jesper Nørgaard Welen -----Original Message----- From: Eric Muller [mailto:emuller@adobe.com] Sent: Domingo, 01 de Julio de 2007 12:07 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: Geographical boundaries for the continental US tz zones I have completed a first version of a map of the TZ timezones in the US. It is available as a shapefile at <http://www.efele.net/maps>. Comments welcome, Eric.

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Geographical boundaries for the continental US tz zones
by Eric Muller July 18, 2007

July 18, 2007

I am trying to figure out the geographical extent of the 19 continental US timezones defined by tz. Because my goal is ultimately to create a freely available digital map, I would like to get definitions in terms existing, freely available digital maps, and the ones at nationalatlas.gov seem appropriate. Specifically, I plan to use countyp020 (county boundaries 2001), statesp020 (states) and timeznp020 (time zones) [see below for more details on those maps]. I tried to translate the comments in the "northamerica" file in terms of operations on the elements of those three maps, but I have a few questions/comments. 1. I would think that America/Boise, America/Denver and America/Phoenix together correspond exactly to the Mountain time zone of timeznp020. However, the later includes the southern quarter of Idaho County, Idaho, while northamerica suggests that this county is entirely in America/Pacific. Who is right? 2. The description of America/Denver includes "far eastern Oregon", and the description of America/Boise includes "eastern Oregon". Comparing with timeznp020, I suspect that America/Denver should not include "far eastern Oregon". (and if timeznp020 is right, "eastern Oregon" could be better described as "most of Malheur County, Oregon"). 3. What does America/Indiana/Indianapolis cover? Is it all the counties of Indiana not listed in any of the other zones? 4. The overall description of Indiana includes: # - Daviess, Dubois, Knox, Martin, Perry, and Pulaski counties # have been like America/Indiana/Vincennes. # # - Crawford, Pike, Starke, and Switzerland counties have their own time zone # histories as noted below. However, it seems that Pulaski now has it own zone (America/Indiana/Winamac), so it should probably be moved from the first to the second bullet in the quote above. 5. The description of America/Indiana/Marengo is that it covers the eastern part of Crawford County. How is that county divided, and in which zone does the western part fall? 6. What part of Kentucky goes in America/Kentucky/Louisville? At this point, I am not trying to handle border towns such as West Wendover, mostly because I have no idea of where to find a boundary for such towns. Any suggestion on what to do for those cases is welcome. For those of you who are curious about the content of the maps cited above: you can download them from <http://nationalatlas.gov/atlasftp.html> and visualize them using standard GIS tools (I use the freely available OpenJUMP and uDig). Alternatively, I have created a KML version of timeznp020 (using org2ogr) and placed it at <http://efele.net/timeznp020.zip> (4MB, 15MB uncompressed); you can visualize it in Google Earth (File->Open); I assume that the built-in 1st level and 2nd level admin regions (under "borders") are close enough to statesp020 and countyp020. Below is my current recipe to build my map in terms of operations in the source maps. Comments welcome. Thanks, Eric. --- Phoenix timeznp020/(Mountain & no DST) Boise statesp020/(Idaho+Oregon) intersected with timeznp020/Mountain North_Dakota/Center countyp020/(Oliver County, North Dakota) North_Dakota/New_Salem countyp020/(Morton County, North Dakota) Indiana/Marengo countyp020/(Crawford County, Indiana) // should only be the eastern part of Crawford County? where is the // limit? where does the western part go? Indiana/Vincennes countyp020/(Daviess, Dubois, Knox, Martin, and Perry Counties, Indiana) Indiana/Petersburg countyp020/(Pike County, Indiana) Indiana/Knox countyp020/(Starke County, Indiana) Indiana/Winamac countyp020/(Pulaski County, Indiana) Indiana/Vevay countyp020/(Switzerland County, Indiana) Kentucky/Louisville countyp020/(Clark, Floyd, and Harrison counties, Indiana) // what part of Kentucky is in this zone? Kentucky/Monticello countyp020/(Wayne County, Kentucky) Indiana/Indianapolis ? // statesp020/Indiana minus what is already covered above minus // Dearborn and Ohio County (they are in America/New_York) and // minus Gibson, Jasper, Lake, LaPorte, Newton, Porter, Posey, // Spencer, Vanderburgh, // and Warrick counties (they are in America/Chicago) Menominee countyp020/(Dickinson, Gogebic, Iron, and Menominee Counties, Michigan) Detroit statesp020/Michigan minus what is already covered above Los_Angeles timeznp020/Pacific minus what is already covered above Denver timeznp020/Mountain minus what is already covered above Chicago timeznp020/Central minus what is already covered above New_York timeznp020/Eastern minus what is already covered above ----

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FW: Does UTC+14 Still Exist?
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] July 18, 2007

July 18, 2007

I'm forwarding this message from Robert Chapin who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Robert Chapin [mailto:tz@info-svc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:47 PM To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Does UTC+14 Still Exist? The latest CIA map doesn't have the UTC+14 time zone on it.. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/reference_ma ps/p df/time_zones.pdf I'm curious if this is accurate? _____________ Robert Chapin

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FW: Vietnam: Saigon is deprecated, should use capital Hanoi
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] July 13, 2007

July 13, 2007

I'm forwarding this message from Martin Pitt, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Martin Pitt [mailto:martin.pitt@ubuntu.com] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:27 AM To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Cc: 121540(a)bugs.launchpad.net Subject: Vietnam: Saigon is deprecated, should use capital Hanoi Hello Arthur and tzdata team, we just got this tzdata bug in Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tzdata/+bug/121540 which points out that "Saigon" has been renamed to "Ho Chi Minh" a long time ago. The comment in the asia file already mentions that: # Saigon's official name is Thanh-Pho Ho Chi Minh, but it's too long. # We'll stick with the traditional name for now. A nice solution to avoid obsolete names, retain a short name, and even get more consistent is to use "Hanoi", which is the actual capital of Vietnam (and is the very same TZ). Then Saigon could just be an alias (i. e. transitional symlink) to Hanoi. What do you think about that? Thank you in advance, Martin -- Martin Pitt http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org

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FW: Localization of timezones from zone.tab
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] July 12, 2007

July 12, 2007

I'm forwarding this message from Vincent Untz, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Vincent Untz [mailto:vuntz@gnome.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:24 PM To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Localization of timezones from zone.tab Hi, [please keep me cc'ed since I'm not subscribed to this list] I know that, at least in GNOME, there are now three places where we parse zone.tab to get a list of timezones supported by the OS. I suppose other projects are also doing this. This list is then presented to the user to let him choose the timezone. The problem here is that we let the user choose strings which look like "Antarctica/South_Pole". This is not really good for non-english-speaking people ;-) Of course, we can add all the timezones to our list of strings to translate, but this means all projects needing to do so will duplicate this work and the translations. I'd like the tz database to ship translations in po files. This would imply the following: + create a small script to generate a POT file from zone.tab (easy) + submit the POT file to the translation project [1] (or any other place that helps with translation) + add the po files for translation to the tz database + choose a gettext domain (Of course, I'm quite probably forgetting about a step :-)) I've seen that this topic has been discussed before [2], but the proposition there was really more ambitious, so I'm hoping a simple approach would be welcomed. What do you think? Thanks, [1] http://translationproject.org/ [2] http://osdir.com/ml/time.tz/2004-09/msg00000.html Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.

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Is there a list of "current" time zones?
by Tim Klein July 11, 2007

July 11, 2007

I'm new here. As I look through the tz database, and the archives of this mailing list, I realize what a phenomenal effort you folks have put in, to make all of this information available. Thank you for all you've done! A question... I'm helping to write an application that needs a menu for the user to choose what time zone they live in. With ~400 time zones in the database, that'd be a pretty daunting pull-down menu. But as I understand it, a significant fraction of the ~400 time zones exist only for historical reasons. Since our application will deal only with current and future times, historical distinctions don't matter, and we'd like the menu to show only the subset of time zones that are currently "in effect". (And we don't mind if it isn't painstakingly accurate or updated in real time.) Has anyone created such a list? Or maybe an algorithm (if not code) for generating one from the full database? I see that this question has come up in the past. To quote from the archives... ====== >From: "Andy Lipscomb" <AndyLipscomb(a)decosimo.com> >Perhaps a better term would be "historical" time zones. This would >in fact be a useful distinction, since only a relatively small >subset of the timezones are necessary for applications that look >only forward--these would be the first set to present to a user for >selecting a time zone, with a "show all" option to get the complete >list. (For example, the 50 United States can be covered on a >forward-looking basis by eight zones--New York, Chicago, Denver, >Phoenix, Los Angeles, Anchorage, Adak, and Honolulu. And if one >takes as irrevocable the power of the EU over DST dates, then--for >example--London, Paris, and Helsinki would cover that entire area, >except for the different abbreviations used in the three +0 >countries.) ====== And... >From: Paul Eggert [mailto:eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU] >Sent: November 6, 2006 12:13 PM > >> Is there any way to flag some of the old historical zones such that >> they don't appear when running "tzselect"? > >We could have a table for people who don't care about historical >times, which maps zone names to "modern" zone names, and tzselect >could have an option to use that table. ====== Thank you very much for any wisdom on this subject! Tim Klein Dallas, Texas, USA

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FW: Time Zone mapping --> Windows ???
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] July 11, 2007

July 11, 2007

I'm forwarding this message from Boris Lang, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: BORIS LANG [mailto:BORIS.LANG@MEMO.IKEA.COM] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:55 AM To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Time Zone mapping --> Windows ??? --- Received from IKEA4.BRLG +49 6122 5858276 07-07-10 14.56 -------------------------------------- Hi, we are working on the implementation of time zone information into an application using the tz database. TZ data names will be our main type but we also need to do a mapping to the time zone names used in windows. i.e. Europe/Berlin (tzd) --> Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna (Windows) The problem is that I can´t find a complete list that contains the mapping from tz database to windows. Can somebody please help us? Is there already such a list existing? Best regards Boris Lang ------ IKEA IT Germany GmbH Am Wandersmann 2-4 65719 Hofheim-Wallau Sitz München HR B 79392, Amtsgericht München Geschäftsführer: Manfred Godlewski, Göran Sjöstrand, Ola Troedsson ---- 07-07-10 14.56 ---- Sent to --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -> tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov

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Re: FW: Localization of timezones from zone.tab
by Mark Davis July 10, 2007

July 10, 2007

There is a users group at http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html#cldr_list. You can post suggestions/requests via the bug form on http://www.unicode.org/cldr/bugs/locale-bugs. If you belong to a Unicode member organization (http://www.unicode.org/consortium/memblogo.html) you can get on the internal list and even (if you choose) the weekly teleconference. Mark On 7/10/07, Chuck Soper <chucks2(a)veladg.com> wrote: > > Thanks for your response. I now remember meeting someone from IBM at an > IMUG meeting at Apple; he described metazones. > > What is the best way for me to stay informed of CLDR related to time > zones? And is there a way to make comments, suggestions or discuss? > > Chuck > > At 1:54 PM -0700 7/10/07, Mark Davis wrote: > > We have actually instituted an alternative mechanism called 'metazones', > which are somewhat like what you describe. They basically coalesce zones > that have the same behavior in modern time. However, they have some further > restrictions, and we only put this in recently thus haven't gathered enough > data to be useful yet. > > Mark > > On 7/10/07,* Chuck Soper* <chucks2(a)veladg.com> wrote: > > I've been on the tz list for several years. I have tried to follow the > Time Zone Localizations topic for CLDR. > > > I do not understand why translations would be supplied for timezone IDs > (tzIDs). Many tzIDs refer to the same time zone name. For example, I believe > that Argentina has 2 time zone names, yet it has 10 tzIDs to handle DST > rules for various states. Does this mean that 20 localized names would be > required for Argentina? Does this mean that a new tzID would not be > localized? > > > Looking at 381 tzIDs of a tzData version (from 2006), I multiply it by two > (for std and dst names) to obtain 762 time zone names required. By removing > names of tzIDs that do not recognize DST and removing tzIDs that refer to > the same time name (e.g. many tzIDs refer to Central European Time), I was > to reduce total time zone names from 762 to 212. > > > Can over 500 names can be removed from the translation list? Multiplying > 500 potentially unneeded names by the number of translations would result in > a large reduction of translation efforts. > > > My approach is dependent on having a stable list of time zone names. As > far as I know, such a list does not exist. If such a list existed, I would > envision tzIDs being mapped to the 'time zone name' list. > > > Chuck > > > > At 10:44 AM -0700 7/10/07, Mark Davis wrote: > > The Unicode CLDR project (http://unicode.org/cldr/) does supply > translations for timezone IDs. There are a few caveats. > > 1. The timezone database really has equivalence classes of IDs. One > of these can be used as a representative for any in the equivalence class. > It is the zone.tab file that contains such IDs. CLDR started by using that > file, but unfortunately it is not stable (different equivalent IDs can be > substituted at any time). So what we do is use as the representative the one > that historically the first one used in any zone.tab file (after CLDR > started). > > 2. We allow, but do not encourage, translation of zones that are the > only zone in a country. For that we use the country name. This cuts down > very substantially on the number of translations needed. That is, you would > see the equivalent of "Italy", and "United States (Los Angeles)" -- only in > the latter case do we need translations for the cities. > > 3. Translators can optionally add other variations: daylight (summer) > time, standard (winter) time, and generic time, both abbreviated and long. > > 4. These choices percolate out to clients of CLDR: Google, IBM, > Apple, Adobe, and many others. > > Mark > > On 7/10/07,* Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E]* <olsona(a)dc37a.nci.nih.gov> > wrote: > > I'm forwarding this message from Vincent Untz, who is not on the time zone > mailing list. > > Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies > appropriately. > > --ado > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vincent Untz [mailto: vuntz(a)gnome.org] > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:24 PM > To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov > Subject: Localization of timezones from zone.tab > > Hi, > > [please keep me cc'ed since I'm not subscribed to this list] > > I know that, at least in GNOME, there are now three places where we > > parse zone.tab to get a list of timezones supported by the OS. I suppose > other projects are also doing this. This list is then presented to the > user to let him choose the timezone. > > The problem here is that we let the user choose strings which look like > "Antarctica/South_Pole". This is not really good for > non-english-speaking people ;-) > > Of course, we can add all the timezones to our list of strings to > translate, but this means all projects needing to do so will duplicate > this work and the translations. > > I'd like the tz database to ship translations in po files. This would > imply the following: > > + create a small script to generate a POT file from zone.tab (easy) > + submit the POT file to the translation project [1] (or any other > > place that helps with translation) > > + add the po files for translation to the tz database > + choose a gettext domain > > (Of course, I'm quite probably forgetting about a step :-)) > > I've seen that this topic has been discussed before [2], but the > proposition there was really more ambitious, so I'm hoping a simple > approach would be welcomed. > > What do you think? > > Thanks, > > [1] http://translationproject.org/ > [2] http://osdir.com/ml/time.tz/2004-09/msg00000.html > > Vincent > > -- > Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. > > > > > -- > Mark > > > > > > -- > Mark > > > -- Mark

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Re: FW: Localization of timezones from zone.tab
by Mark Davis July 10, 2007

July 10, 2007

We have actually instituted an alternative mechanism called 'metazones', which are somewhat like what you describe. They basically coalesce zones that have the same behavior in modern time. However, they have some further restrictions, and we only put this in recently thus haven't gathered enough data to be useful yet. Mark On 7/10/07, Chuck Soper <chucks2(a)veladg.com> wrote: > > I've been on the tz list for several years. I have tried to follow the > Time Zone Localizations topic for CLDR. > > I do not understand why translations would be supplied for timezone IDs > (tzIDs). Many tzIDs refer to the same time zone name. For example, I believe > that Argentina has 2 time zone names, yet it has 10 tzIDs to handle DST > rules for various states. Does this mean that 20 localized names would be > required for Argentina? Does this mean that a new tzID would not be > localized? > > Looking at 381 tzIDs of a tzData version (from 2006), I multiply it by two > (for std and dst names) to obtain 762 time zone names required. By removing > names of tzIDs that do not recognize DST and removing tzIDs that refer to > the same time name (e.g. many tzIDs refer to Central European Time), I was > to reduce total time zone names from 762 to 212. > > Can over 500 names can be removed from the translation list? Multiplying > 500 potentially unneeded names by the number of translations would result in > a large reduction of translation efforts. > > My approach is dependent on having a stable list of time zone names. As > far as I know, such a list does not exist. If such a list existed, I would > envision tzIDs being mapped to the 'time zone name' list. > > Chuck > > > At 10:44 AM -0700 7/10/07, Mark Davis wrote: > > The Unicode CLDR project (http://unicode.org/cldr/) does supply > translations for timezone IDs. There are a few caveats. > > 1. The timezone database really has equivalence classes of IDs. One > of these can be used as a representative for any in the equivalence class. > It is the zone.tab file that contains such IDs. CLDR started by using that > file, but unfortunately it is not stable (different equivalent IDs can be > substituted at any time). So what we do is use as the representative the one > that historically the first one used in any zone.tab file (after CLDR > started). > > 2. We allow, but do not encourage, translation of zones that are the > only zone in a country. For that we use the country name. This cuts down > very substantially on the number of translations needed. That is, you would > see the equivalent of "Italy", and "United States (Los Angeles)" -- only in > the latter case do we need translations for the cities. > > 3. Translators can optionally add other variations: daylight (summer) > time, standard (winter) time, and generic time, both abbreviated and long. > > 4. These choices percolate out to clients of CLDR: Google, IBM, > Apple, Adobe, and many others. > > Mark > > On 7/10/07,* Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E]* <olsona(a)dc37a.nci.nih.gov> > wrote: > > I'm forwarding this message from Vincent Untz, who is not on the time zone > mailing list. > > Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies > appropriately. > > --ado > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vincent Untz [mailto: vuntz(a)gnome.org] > Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:24 PM > To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov > Subject: Localization of timezones from zone.tab > > Hi, > > [please keep me cc'ed since I'm not subscribed to this list] > > I know that, at least in GNOME, there are now three places where we > parse zone.tab to get a list of timezones supported by the OS. I suppose > other projects are also doing this. This list is then presented to the > user to let him choose the timezone. > > The problem here is that we let the user choose strings which look like > "Antarctica/South_Pole". This is not really good for > non-english-speaking people ;-) > > Of course, we can add all the timezones to our list of strings to > translate, but this means all projects needing to do so will duplicate > this work and the translations. > > I'd like the tz database to ship translations in po files. This would > imply the following: > > + create a small script to generate a POT file from zone.tab (easy) > + submit the POT file to the translation project [1] (or any other > > place that helps with translation) > > + add the po files for translation to the tz database > + choose a gettext domain > > (Of course, I'm quite probably forgetting about a step :-)) > > I've seen that this topic has been discussed before [2], but the > proposition there was really more ambitious, so I'm hoping a simple > approach would be welcomed. > > What do you think? > > Thanks, > > [1] http://translationproject.org/ > [2] http://osdir.com/ml/time.tz/2004-09/msg00000.html > > Vincent > > -- > Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. > > > > > -- > Mark > > > -- Mark

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Re: FW: Localization of timezones from zone.tab
by Chuck Soper July 10, 2007

July 10, 2007

I've been on the tz list for several years. I have tried to follow the Time Zone Localizations topic for CLDR. I do not understand why translations would be supplied for timezone IDs (tzIDs). Many tzIDs refer to the same time zone name. For example, I believe that Argentina has 2 time zone names, yet it has 10 tzIDs to handle DST rules for various states. Does this mean that 20 localized names would be required for Argentina? Does this mean that a new tzID would not be localized? Looking at 381 tzIDs of a tzData version (from 2006), I multiply it by two (for std and dst names) to obtain 762 time zone names required. By removing names of tzIDs that do not recognize DST and removing tzIDs that refer to the same time name (e.g. many tzIDs refer to Central European Time), I was to reduce total time zone names from 762 to 212. Can over 500 names can be removed from the translation list? Multiplying 500 potentially unneeded names by the number of translations would result in a large reduction of translation efforts. My approach is dependent on having a stable list of time zone names. As far as I know, such a list does not exist. If such a list existed, I would envision tzIDs being mapped to the 'time zone name' list. Chuck At 10:44 AM -0700 7/10/07, Mark Davis wrote: >The Unicode CLDR project >(<http://unicode.org/cldr/>http://unicode.org/cldr/) >does supply translations for timezone IDs. There >are a few caveats. > >1. The timezone database really has >equivalence classes of IDs. One of these can be >used as a representative for any in the >equivalence class. It is the zone.tab file that >contains such IDs. CLDR started by using that >file, but unfortunately it is not stable >(different equivalent IDs can be substituted at >any time). So what we do is use as the >representative the one that historically the >first one used in any zone.tab file (after CLDR >started). >2. We allow, but do not encourage, >translation of zones that are the only zone in a >country. For that we use the country name. This >cuts down very substantially on the number of >translations needed. That is, you would see the >equivalent of "Italy", and "United States (Los >Angeles)" -- only in the latter case do we need >translations for the cities. >3. Translators can optionally add other >variations: daylight (summer) time, standard >(winter) time, and generic time, both >abbreviated and long. >4. These choices percolate out to clients of >CLDR: Google, IBM, Apple, Adobe, and many others. > >Mark > >On 7/10/07, Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] ><<mailto:olsona@dc37a.nci.nih.gov>olsona(a)dc37a.nci.nih.gov> >wrote: > >I'm forwarding this message from Vincent Untz, >who is not on the time zone mailing list. > >Those of you who are on the time zone mailing >list should direct replies appropriately. > > --ado > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vincent Untz [mailto:<mailto:vuntz@gnome.org> vuntz(a)gnome.org] >Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:24 PM >To: <mailto:tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov>tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov >Subject: Localization of timezones from zone.tab > >Hi, > >[please keep me cc'ed since I'm not subscribed to this list] > >I know that, at least in GNOME, there are now three places where we >parse zone.tab to get a list of timezones supported by the OS. I suppose >other projects are also doing this. This list is then presented to the >user to let him choose the timezone. > >The problem here is that we let the user choose strings which look like >"Antarctica/South_Pole". This is not really good for >non-english-speaking people ;-) > >Of course, we can add all the timezones to our list of strings to >translate, but this means all projects needing to do so will duplicate >this work and the translations. > >I'd like the tz database to ship translations in po files. This would >imply the following: > >+ create a small script to generate a POT file from zone.tab (easy) >+ submit the POT file to the translation project [1] (or any other > place that helps with translation) >+ add the po files for translation to the tz database >+ choose a gettext domain > >(Of course, I'm quite probably forgetting about a step :-)) > >I've seen that this topic has been discussed before [2], but the >proposition there was really more ambitious, so I'm hoping a simple >approach would be welcomed. > >What do you think? > >Thanks, > >[1] <http://translationproject.org/>http://translationproject.org/ >[2] ><http://osdir.com/ml/time.tz/2004-09/msg00000.html> >http://osdir.com/ml/time.tz/2004-09/msg00000.html > >Vincent > >-- >Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. > > > > >-- >Mark

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Localization of timezones from zone.tab
by Vincent Untz July 10, 2007

July 10, 2007

Hi, [please keep me cc'ed since I'm not subscribed to this list] I know that, at least in GNOME, there are now three places where we parse zone.tab to get a list of timezones supported by the OS. I suppose other projects are also doing this. This list is then presented to the user to let him choose the timezone. The problem here is that we let the user choose strings which look like "Antarctica/South_Pole". This is not really good for non-english-speaking people ;-) Of course, we can add all the timezones to our list of strings to translate, but this means all projects needing to do so will duplicate this work and the translations. I'd like the tz database to ship translations in po files. This would imply the following: + create a small script to generate a POT file from zone.tab (easy) + submit the POT file to the translation project [1] (or any other place that helps with translation) + add the po files for translation to the tz database + choose a gettext domain (Of course, I'm quite probably forgetting about a step :-)) I've seen that this topic has been discussed before [2], but the proposition there was really more ambitious, so I'm hoping a simple approach would be welcomed. What do you think? Thanks, [1] http://translationproject.org/ [2] http://osdir.com/ml/time.tz/2004-09/msg00000.html Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.

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Re: Is there a list of "current" time zones?
by Philip Howell July 10, 2007

July 10, 2007

Hi Tim, In the tzdata tarball is a file called zone.tab. It lists the current time zones grouped by country code. Cheers, Phil Tim Klein wrote: > I'm new here. As I look through the tz database, and the archives of > this mailing list, I realize what a phenomenal effort you folks have > put in, to make all of this information available. Thank you for all > you've done! > > A question... > > I'm helping to write an application that needs a menu for the user to > choose what time zone they live in. With ~400 time zones in the > database, that'd be a pretty daunting pull-down menu. > > But as I understand it, a significant fraction of the ~400 time zones > exist only for historical reasons. Since our application will deal > only with current and future times, historical distinctions don't > matter, and we'd like the menu to show only the subset of time zones > that are currently "in effect". (And we don't mind if it isn't > painstakingly accurate or updated in real time.) > > Has anyone created such a list? Or maybe an algorithm (if not code) > for generating one from the full database? > > I see that this question has come up in the past. To quote from the > archives... > > ====== > >> From: "Andy Lipscomb" <AndyLipscomb(a)decosimo.com> >> Perhaps a better term would be "historical" time zones. This would in >> fact be a useful distinction, since only a relatively small subset of >> the timezones are necessary for applications that look only >> forward--these would be the first set to present to a user for >> selecting a time zone, with a "show all" option to get the complete >> list. (For example, the 50 United States can be covered on a >> forward-looking basis by eight zones--New York, Chicago, Denver, >> Phoenix, Los Angeles, Anchorage, Adak, and Honolulu. And if one takes >> as irrevocable the power of the EU over DST dates, then--for >> example--London, Paris, and Helsinki would cover that entire area, >> except for the different abbreviations used in the three +0 countries.) > > ====== > And... > >> From: Paul Eggert [mailto:eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU] >> Sent: November 6, 2006 12:13 PM >> >>> Is there any way to flag some of the old historical zones such that >>> they don't appear when running "tzselect"? >> >> We could have a table for people who don't care about historical >> times, which maps zone names to "modern" zone names, and tzselect >> could have an option to use that table. > > ====== > > Thank you very much for any wisdom on this subject! > > Tim Klein > Dallas, Texas, USA > >

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Re: Is there a list of "current" time zones?
by Eric Ulevik July 10, 2007

July 10, 2007

On 7/10/07, Tim Klein <tkpublic(a)timklein.fastmail.fm> wrote: > I'm helping to write an application that needs a menu for the user to > choose what time zone they live in. With ~400 time zones in the > database, that'd be a pretty daunting pull-down menu. You will find this menu in quite a few places. Generally people don't have a problem identifying their geographical location - which is what this list shows. To simplify the menu, get the user to first choose a continent (eg. "Australia" or "Europe") then a region from a smaller list. You could also move the most common selections to the top of the list. Regards, Eric Ulevik

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French Polynesia time zones
by Jesper Norgaard Welen July 9, 2007

July 9, 2007

Perhaps the following link will interest Eric Muller and the rest of the mailing list members: http://www.timegenie.com/country.time/pf/ The FAQ mentioned of the Tahiti tourism web site in fact has the URL http://www.tahiti-tourisme.com/planner/tahitifaqs.asp (it seems to have changed name since timegenie site documented it). Eric asked for a recognition of the three time zones in the tz database for French Polynesia. The explanation in the timegenie web site is: "According to the official <http://www.tahiti-tourisme.com/> Tahiti Tourisme web site, Tahiti and her Islands have two times zones. This information can be found in the <http://www.tahiti-tourisme.com/planner/faqs.asp> FAQ section. However, Tahiti and her islands have in fact three time zones. The third time zone is not mentioned on the Tahiti Tourisme web site. Most likely, the third time zone is not mentioned since it is not visited by many tourists due to its distance from the main island of Tahiti. Since there is no official mention of the third time zone, timegenie.com contacted a Tahiti Tourisme office by phone. The result was that timegenie.com received official confirmation of the third time zone. Based on the information provided by Tahiti Tourisme, the majority of the islands, including the island of Tahiti itself, are -10 hours UTC/GMT. The Marquesas Islands are -9 hours 30 minutes UTC/GMT. The Gambier Islands are the third time zone and they are -9 hours UTC/GMT." I hope it's alright to quote timegenie for this information. I haven't found myself an official French Polynesia goverment web site confirming this information, but my french is limited to a 40-hour course so it is not to much use in this investigation. Regards, - Jesper Jesper Nørgaard Welen Email: jnorgard(a)Prodigy.Net.mx Project Leader (Líder de Proyecto) Software CIMMYT - Centro Internacional de Mejoramiento de Maíz y Trigo Dirección: CIMMYT Int. c/o Jesper Nørgaard Km. 45, Carretera México-Veracruz El Batán Texcoco, Edo. de México CP 56130 MEXICO Tel.: +52 (55) 58-04-20-04 ext. 1374 Fax: +52 (55) 58-04-75-58 Tel. Casa: 53-10-05-95 ó 53-10-97-78 Download the shareware program World Time Explorer, I made: http://www.worldtimeexplorer.com/index.html

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French Polynesia
by Eric Muller July 3, 2007

July 3, 2007

If I read correctly the tz data for French Polynesia, there are three tz zones that are half an hour apart. I searched for an independent confirmation, but I can't find any evidence that FP has multiple local times. The best I have found so far is <http://www.outre-mer.gouv.fr/outremer/front?id=outremer/decouvrir_outre_mer…> which suggests that all of FP is in a single timezone. Any idea of the source of the current data? Thanks, Eric.

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subscribe
by Lorn Potter June 29, 2007

June 29, 2007

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Does UTC+14 Still Exist?
by Robert Chapin June 27, 2007

June 27, 2007

The latest CIA map doesn't have the UTC+14 time zone on it.. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/reference_maps/p df/time_zones.pdf I'm curious if this is accurate? _____________ Robert Chapin

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Vietnam: Saigon is deprecated, should use capital Hanoi
by Martin Pitt June 22, 2007

June 22, 2007

Hello Arthur and tzdata team, we just got this tzdata bug in Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tzdata/+bug/121540 which points out that "Saigon" has been renamed to "Ho Chi Minh" a long time ago. The comment in the asia file already mentions that: # Saigon's official name is Thanh-Pho Ho Chi Minh, but it's too long. # We'll stick with the traditional name for now. A nice solution to avoid obsolete names, retain a short name, and even get more consistent is to use "Hanoi", which is the actual capital of Vietnam (and is the very same TZ). Then Saigon could just be an alias (i. e. transitional symlink) to Hanoi. What do you think about that? Thank you in advance, Martin -- Martin Pitt http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org

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FW: Time Zone Data
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] June 21, 2007

June 21, 2007

I'm forwarding this message from Angela Lovell, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado From: Lovell, Angela [mailto:Angela.Lovell@garmin.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:03 PM To: tz-request(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Time Zone Data To Whom it may Concern, I would like to review your time zone data for possible use in Garmin GPS devices. Can you tell me if you have polygon data for the time zones across the world? If so, would it be possible to achieve a login name and password for the data? Please let me know if there is anything else I should know regarding this data. Thanks, Angela Lovell _____________________________________________________________ Angela Lovell | Cartography Development Manager | Garmin International Email: angela.lovell(a)garmin.com ------------------------- This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation

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