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Re: Another capital
by Dik.Winter＠cwi.nl Sept. 28, 2000

Sept. 28, 2000

>> Welkom en welkom gefeliciteerd in deez' wonderschone hoofdstad van ons land! >> Congratulations! You live in the real and formal capital of the Netherlands. >> The Dutch government has its seat in The Hague (Den Haag, 's-Gravenhage). > Which makes it the capital by both the English meaning of the word (Webster) > and the Dutch meaning of the word (van Dale). Note that when I was at school > we were taught that The Hague was the capital, while the only claim to fame > of Amsterdam was that Kings and Queens would be crowned there. Forgot to mention something. You talk about "formal capital", but that can only be the case if it is written down somewhere in the legislation, but there is nothing about that anywhere. My (Dutch) encyclopedia (which postdates my schooldays by quite some years) says: "Generally Amsterdam is seen as the capital of the Netherlands although the seat of government is in The Hague." Note that this implies that it is not universal, nor that it would actually be correct. dik

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Re: Another capital
by Dik.Winter＠cwi.nl Sept. 28, 2000

Sept. 28, 2000

> Welkom en welkom gefeliciteerd in deez' wonderschone hoofdstad van ons land! > Congratulations! You live in the real and formal capital of the Netherlands. > The Dutch government has its seat in The Hague (Den Haag, 's-Gravenhage). Which makes it the capital by both the English meaning of the word (Webster) and the Dutch meaning of the word (van Dale). Note that when I was at school we were taught that The Hague was the capital, while the only claim to fame of Amsterdam was that Kings and Queens would be crowned there. dik

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Another capital
by Oscar van Vlijmen Sept. 28, 2000

Sept. 28, 2000

> Dik Winter: > Oh, come on. How many people in the Netherlands know the official name > of its capital? How many people not of Dutch origin know what the real > capital is? And it would seem strange to use that name in the files in > conjunction with "Amsterdam time". I am quite happy with Europe/Amsterdam, > but that is where I live of course ;-). Welkom en welkom gefeliciteerd in deez' wonderschone hoofdstad van ons land! Congratulations! You live in the real and formal capital of the Netherlands. The Dutch government has its seat in The Hague (Den Haag, 's-Gravenhage). Many globally accessible sources, e.g. the CIA World Factbook, will tell you the same. http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html Oscar van Vlijmen 2000-09-28

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Re: Eastern Peace Time
by Paul Eggert Sept. 28, 2000

Sept. 28, 2000

"Olson, Arthur David (NCI)" <olsona(a)dc37a.nci.nih.gov> writes: > Last night I heard part of a rebroadcast of a 1945 Arch Oboler radio > drama. In the introduction, Oboler spoke of "Eastern Peace Time." > An AltaVista search turned up http://rowayton.org/rhs/hstaug45.html > by way of confirmation. Peace is such a wonderful thing! We must put this into the database. > ...and presumably what's needed is a line between these two such as... > ...where h:mm is the time that the document ending the war was signed. The document was signed on September 2, but from that web page it appears that the radio was announcing "Eastern Peace Time" in August 1945. Truman officially declared V-J Day on August 15, 1945. Many people celebrate V-J day on September 2, when the documents were signed on the battleship Missouri, but that's not the right date for tz purposes. <http://www.merchant-marine.com/va--ammv.htm> says that at 0615 hours, the US Navy ordered that all offensive operations against Japan cease; this is the best time that I could find for the actual start of peace. > 1. What are the correct values for h and mm above? I would say August 15, 1945, at 06:15 -- presumably this was EWT, so the transition was at 10:15 Universal Time. # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule US 1945 only - Aug 15 10:15u 1:00 P # Peace (V-J Day) I'll put this into my next proposed batch of changes.

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Re: (Cyprus), Nicosia is in Europe not Asia.
by Paul Eggert Sept. 28, 2000

Sept. 28, 2000

Antoine Leca <Antoine.Leca(a)renault.fr> writes: > Paul Eggert wrote: > > > I don't know of any current official dividing line between Europe and > > Asia [...] Geographically, Cyprus is > > clearly in Asia, and this has long been recognized. > > Sorry Paul: you are not consistent. Either you do not know of a dividing > line (as I do not, hence I do not comment on the issue). Or you do know > that "Cyprus is clearly in Asia", which in fact means that you know > of some line. What I was trying to say (perhaps infelicitously) is that the geographic dividing line is fuzzy in places (e.g. are the Mugadzhar mountains in Europe or in Asia?) but Cyprus is pretty clearly on the Asian side. Here's a quote that states things fairly accurately, I think: Geographically, Cyprus is considered to be a part of West Asia (this Mediterranean island is much closer to the mainland of Asia than to that of Europe). However, due to cultural, demographic, and historical reasons, it is often considered as a part of Europe. http://www.ozemail.com.au/~natinfo/asia3-2.htm#cyprus However, after some more research I agree that the point is disputable. In particular, the Encyclopedia Britannica flatly says that Cyprus is part of Europe. See <http://www.britannica.com/seo/e/europe/>. > The problem with Cyprus is that, at least as he said, Yiango was > unable to find Cyprus TZ because it cannot found it under > Europe/Nicosia. Yes, that's perhaps the best practical argument for putting it under Europe. I guess you have talked me into adding something like this: # Classically, Cyprus belongs to Asia; e.g. see Herodotus, Histories, I.72. # However, for various reasons many users expect to find it under Europe. Link Asia/Nicosia Europe/Nicosia

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Sao Paulo DST change this year?
by David Madeo Sept. 27, 2000

Sept. 27, 2000

Hi, Sorry to distract from the alternative names, but I have a report from a Sao Paulo colleague that they've changed the date for the transition again this year. According to him, As you may know we have the daylight savings for Sao Paulo/Brazil coming soon and as it happens every year the government has changed the dates again... It'll start on oct/8th and will end on February 18 both at 0:00. This doesn't seem to match up with this excerpt from 2000f/southamerica # Decree <a href="http://pcdsh01.on.br/DecHV99.gif">3,188</a> (1999-09-30) # adds SE, AL, PE, PR, RN, CE, PI, MA and RR. # These give only one year's rules. After that, the rules are guesses # and are quite possibly wrong, but are more likely than no DST at all. Rule Brazil 1999 max - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Brazil 2000 max - Feb lastSun 0:00 0 - I can't believe I'm the first to report this. Did I miss an update? Is my colleague misinformed? Thanks, dmadeo

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Re: Alternative place names
by Paul Eggert Sept. 27, 2000

Sept. 27, 2000

"Gwillim Law" <gwil(a)mindspring.com> writes: > I hope we'll resist making frequent changes to the zone names. > Please remember that every change has a cost. In this case, there's > the labor of updating databases, resource files, source code, etc. Yes. For the two proposed changes Asia/Ashkhabad -> Asia/Ashgabat and Asia/Thimbu -> Asia/Thimphu, we'd definitely add entries to the "backward" file, so that any existing users could continue to use the old names. > Do not change established names unless they become ambiguous or shockingly > incorrect. That is a pretty conservative rule. I think I'm a bit more liberal, at least for names that are rarely used. I'd be somewhat surprised if anyone is currently using either of the two names in question as a TZ string. (Thimphu has 20,000 people and no stoplights. :-) The "backward" file let us survive the Great Renaming of 1993 (e.g. "US/Eastern" -> "America/New_York") with little problem, so I'm not to worried about renaming Thimbu. Also, a problem with this rule is that it's hard to define "shockingly incorrect" without going into politics. For example, if we had established the tz database in 1940 and had needed an entry for Asia/Peiping, would that name be "shockingly incorrect" by now? The name "Peiping" implies that Beijing is not the capital of China, and that would probably shock most Chinese; but it wouldn't shock most English-speakers because they don't have a feel for the Chinese etymology. This is an extreme case, but I hope you see what I mean. How about the following more liberal rules instead? Do not change established names if they only marginally violate the above rules. For example, don't change the existing name `Rome' to `Milan' merely because Milan's population has grown to be somewhat greater than Rome's. If a name is changed, put its old spelling in the `backward' file.

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Alternative place names
by Oscar van Vlijmen Sept. 26, 2000

Sept. 26, 2000

To the discussion about possible alternative zone names in the tz-data files: I wrote: > If one doesn't like those names as zone names, just add them as a comment. And Paul Eggert replied: >> That has already been done in the latest tz sources. Sorry, I missed this one! It's good that this happened, because the alternative names are a valuable feature of the tz data, worth mentioning. About the Greenland names: >From the postal codes Greenland page (http://www.dpc.dk/Guide/PostalCodes.html) "3970 Pituffik (Dundas, Thule Air Base)" "3971 Qaanaaq (Thule)" See also: http://www.greenland-guide.dk/gt/maps/default.htm Paul Eggert wrote: > ... But this is another hint that perhaps we should > leave the tz Zone names alone, at least for now. In conclusion for the Greenland case I would like to suggest: Keep the current zone names because Thule and the other Danish names are globally more common, keep the commented Inuit names, but change Pituffik to Qaanaaq. However small Qaanaaq is, it refers to Thule; Pituffik refers to the air base. There are several other small inconsistencies in the zone names and comments of the tz data files. I took a look at the Asia file, with the latest Times atlas, the huge millennium edition, in front of me: * Bhutan: the name of the capital is Thimphu, not Thimbu. It is possible that Thimphu (not an f but an aspirated p) is a closer transliteration of the Dzongkha prononciation than the old British transliteration Thimbu. * Cambodia: Phnom Penh says the tz data, Phnum Penh is a more modern transliteration. * China: Chungking: seems to me an old and wrong French transliteration of Chongqing; the q is not a k-sound, but a ts-sound. * Cyprus: Nicosia. Isn't this called Lefkosia at the moment? * Kazakhstan: Aqtau: could be a pre-1940 transliteration; since the Cyrillic script was reused, the correct transliteration, according to the Times atlas, is Aktau. Where on earth is Aqtobe? TZ data says it's in the Aktyubinsk time zone. Since Aktyubinsk is on the map (both as an oblast' name and as the capital of that county), why not change Aqtobe to Aktyubinsk. * Kirgizstan: should be Kyrgyzstan. * Laos: Vientiane. Put in a comment the better transliteration of Lao name: Viangchan. * Qatar: Al Dawhah: it's Ad Dawhah or the more Latin alternative Doha. * Bahrain: no need for '-' in Al-Manamah, so: Al Manamah. * Syria: Damascus; comment: Dimashq. * Thailand: no, I won't suggest a comment for the (abbreviated) formal name Krung Thep; just Bangkok. If you really like the long one, here it comes: Krungthep Mahanakhon Amorn Rattanakosin Mahintara Yudthaya Mahadilok Pohp Noparat Rajathanee Bureerom Udomrajniwes Mahasatarn Amorn Pimarn Avaltarnsatit Sakatattiya Visanukram Prasit (ref.: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Flats/1233/bkk.htm) * Turkmenistan has since 1991 the Latin alphabet instead of the Cyrillic. I'm not sure if it's Ashkhabad or Ashgabat at the moment. I think the latter. * Vietnam: tzdata says: Saigon's official name is Thanh-Pho Ho Chi Minh. How nice, but isn't the capital Ha Noi? The fact that probably more Americans actually have been in Saigon should not play any role ;) So, there is still a bit of work to do if one would like to dot some i's. Oscar van Vlijmen 2000-09-26

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Re: Alternative place names
by Paul Eggert Sept. 26, 2000

Sept. 26, 2000

Vadim Vygonets <vadik(a)cs.huji.ac.il> writes: > I just asked a Chinese guy, who says that Chongqing is the > official transliteration used in China. So maybe we should go > with the Chinese government. That is an argument for switching, all other things being equal. But I'm not convinced that we should switch entirely to Pinyin. For example, should we change Asia/Harbin to Asia/Haerbin (or Asia/Haerbin_Shi -- it's not clear to me which is right)? The word "Harbin" isn't derived from Chinese, which makes matters even more interesting. In English, "Harbin" is by far the dominant form -- 50 times more common, according to Altavista -- so I'm not inclined to switch it. For Asia/Hong_Kong and Asia/Macao, it's even clearer to me that we shouldn't switch to Pinyin. We have this problem with Asia/Urumqi and Asia/Kashgar too; in both cases I chose the form that I found to be more popular in English at the time (in the first case Pinyin, in the second case conventional). Perhaps the worst example of this problem is Mongolia. Places like Hovd and Choybalsan seem to have dozens of spellings each. With cases like this we have to just close our eyes and pick a name, to some extent. > 'i' and 'y' are different sounds, at least in Russian. Kirgizia > and Kirgizstan are Russian names, Kyrgyzstan is Kyrgyzian > (Kirgizian?). Hmm, also Altavista says that "Kyrgyzstan" is much more popular. So let's prefer "Kyrgyzstan" in the comment and in iso3166.tab. The CIA prefers "Kyrgyzstan" as well, and they seem to be relatively up-to-date in these matters. (_The Economist_ prefers "Kirgizstan", which is where I got the spelling originally.) > > Ho Chi Minh City aka Saigon is far more populous than Hanoi, so that's > > why we use it. (Just as we use Los Angeles and not Sacramento. :-) > > However, Asia/Jerusalem and not Asia/Tel_Aviv is the official > time zone for Israel. It used to be Asia/Tel_Aviv, but someone reported that Jerusalem's population is now greater than Tel Aviv's, at least by some measures. Jerusalem is much better-known, so that was enough to get us to switch. If Jerusalem becomes a divided city with different daylight-saving rules, then we'll need to revisit this issue.

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The question is, don�t you want your name to be on the emails they will send out? * * * DON�T MISS OUT!!! * * * JUST TRY IT ONCE!!! * * * * * SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!! *** YOU�LL BE AMAZED!!!* * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out with YOUR name and address on it will be prompt because they can�t advertise until they receive the report! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ GET STARTED TODAY: PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THE FOUR REPORTS NOW. Notes: ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT. CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in two sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper write: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address. REPORT #1 "The Insider�s Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: Andrew Skidmore 9379 Alexander Rd Alexander, NY 14005 USA REPORT #2 "The Insider�s Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: Lars Pedersen Skejbygaardsvej 7, 1, 10 8240 Risskov Denmark REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: John Cole Werner PO Box 3281 Lihue, HI 96766 REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Zac Majors 2242 E Woodchuck Way Sandy, UT 84093 ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS ******* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately. Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report. It is required for this to be a legal business and they need the reports to send out their letters (with your name on them!) -- ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. -- Be patient and persistent with this program - If you follow the instructions exactly - results WILL FOLLOW. $$$$ ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES ******* Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you don�t receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don�t, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. To generate more income, simply send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business! Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this program, please answer one question. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR PRESENT INCOME OR JOB? If the answer is no, then please look at the following facts about this super simple MLM program: 1. NO face to face selling, NO meetings, NO inventory! NO Telephone calls, NO big cost to start! NOthing to learn, NO skills needed! (Surely you know how to send email?) 2. No equipment to buy - you already have a computer and internet connection - so you have everything you need to fill orders! 3. You are selling a product which does NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE OR SHIP! (Emailing copies of the reports is FREE!) 4. All of your customers pay you in CA$H! This program will change your LIFE FOREVER!! Look at the potential for you to be able to quit your job and live a life of luxury you could only dream about! Imagine getting out of debt and buying the car and home of your dreams and being able to work a super-high paying leisurely easy business from home! $$$ FINALLY MAKE SOME DREAMS COME TRUE! $$$ ACT NOW! Take your first step toward achieving financial independence. Order the reports and follow the program outlined above-- SUCCESS will be your reward. Thank you for your time and consideration. PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal Agency) at 1-800-827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. Your earnings are highly dependent on your activities and advertising. The information contained on this site and in the report constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this site or report constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. The earnings amounts listed on this site and in the report are estimates only. If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington, DC. ================================================ Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact information and a method of removal. This is a one time e-mail transmission. No request for removal is necessary.

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