- tz - lists.iana.org

Acronyms - localization - more CLDR failures
by Tobias Conradi April 3, 2013

April 3, 2013

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Derick Rethans <tz(a)derickrethans.nl> wrote: >> I disagree. I think it's natural to want to abbreviate, especially >> with things that are repeated a lot. > > But that has to be done in a localized way anyway. With the default local being English in the IANA time zone database. > In the Netherlands, > nobody uses CEST or CET, but rather MEZT and MET... Sure? https://www.google.com/search?q=cet+central+site%3Anl And CLDR does not even have MEZT and MET for the Dutch language as you claim is exclusively used in the Netherlands: http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/nl.xml <metazone type="Europe_Central"> <long> <generic>Midden-Europese tijd</generic> <standard>Midden-Europese standaardtijd</standard> <daylight>Midden-Europese zomertijd</daylight> </long> <short> <generic>CET</generic> <standard>CET</standard> <daylight>CEST</daylight> </short> </metazone> > but the tz database > doesn't have those either. The localization and naming is done very well > in CLDR. Counter evidence (Failure on Mexico / Tiempo del Pacifico) has been shown. > I have implemented the Date/Time support (utilizing this > database) in PHP, and have given many presentations about the subject. Ever in front of Mexicans showing Spanish localization for Mexico or in front of Dutch speakers showing Dutch localization for Central Europe? > I > always hammer in two things: .... never > rely or use an abbreviation for anything. Why not? CET in the context of Europe always refers to "Central European Time", doesn't it? Same may go for WAT in Africa and West Africa Time. As seen with AxT representing AxST/AxDT in Australia, the acronyms are not all usable in the IANA time zone database, but duplicating information and inventing new IDs like Europe_Central (=CET), America_Pacific (US and CA = America?) as is done in http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml seems like creating a field for having more bugs. Let's check Shanghai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China In mainland China standard time is called Beijing Time (北京时间) https://www.google.com/search?q="北京时间" ~ 57 mio results http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml <timezone type="Asia/Shanghai"> <usesMetazone mzone="China"/> </timezone> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/zh.xml <metazone type="China"> <long> <generic>中国时间</generic> <standard>中国标准时间</standard> <daylight>中国夏令时间</daylight> </long> </metazone> 中国 = China https://www.google.com/search?q="中国时间" ~ 1 mio results https://www.google.com/search?q="中国标准时间" ~ 230 000 results http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/en.xml <metazone type="China"> <long> <generic>China Time</generic> <standard>China Standard Time</standard> <daylight>China Daylight Time</daylight> </long> </metazone> No acronyms at all! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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A failure - CLDR as an IANA time zone database extension for Mexico
by Tobias Conradi April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

Tiempo del Pacifico http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zonas_horarias_de_M%C3%A9xico#Tiempo_del_Pac.C… Tiempo del Pacifico -6/-7 confirmed by http://www.cenam.mx/hora_oficial/ Tiempo del Pacífico = UTC(CNM) – (N+1) Donde N es 6 horas para el horario de invierno y 5 horas para el horario de verano. ==Test 1 - Tijuana== The only Pacific that I can find in http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/es.xml outside the Area/Locations names are in that section: <metazone type="America_Pacific"> <long> <generic>Hora del Pacífico</generic> <standard>Hora estándar del Pacífico</standard> <daylight>Hora de verano del Pacífico</daylight> </long> </metazone> An example zone for America_Pacific from http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml mapZone other="America_Pacific" territory="MX" type="America/Tijuana"/ Look America/Tijuana up in ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab America/Tijuana US Pacific Time - Baja California near US border ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/northamerica -8:00 Mexico P%sT 2010 -8:00 US P%sT ==Example 2 - Hermosillo== ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab America/Hermosillo Mountain Standard Time - Sonora -7:00 Mexico M%sT 1999 -7:00 - MST That is "Tiempo del Pacífico", using http://www.cenam.mx/hora_oficial/ Tiempo del Pacífico = UTC(CNM) – (N+1) Donde N es 6 horas para el horario de invierno .... http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/supplemental/metaZones.xml <timezone type="America/Hermosillo"> <usesMetazone to="1970-01-01 08:00" mzone="America_Pacific"/> <usesMetazone from="1970-01-01 08:00" mzone="America_Mountain"/> </timezone> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/es.xml <metazone type="America_Mountain"> <long> <generic>Hora de las Montañas</generic> <standard>Hora estándar de Montaña</standard> <daylight>Hora de verano de Montaña</daylight> </long> </metazone> -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Scheduling - use case for acronyms
by Tobias Conradi April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

Was: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Russ Allbery <rra(a)stanford.edu> wrote: > Humans don't need the abbreviation and don't care. False - as numerous emails and usages demonstrate. > They either schedule > the meeting in local time That might be unknown or ambiguous. > or in the current time in some other time zone Exactly, and that would be communicated how, in a brief manner - as Mark used in "Mondays at 8:00 PT" > (or possibly in UTC) UTC might be unknown at time of scheduling or not decipherable by the receiver. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Blame it on Caesar, talk from PyCon 2013
by Stuart Bishop April 2, 2013

April 2, 2013

People on this list may be interested in this talk from PyCon 2013, available on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBKqRhn0ekM In it Lennart Regebro provides an overview of historical calendars before moving onto the modern real world issues developers face when dealing with calendaring. -- Stuart Bishop <stuart(a)stuartbishop.net> http://www.stuartbishop.net/

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Australian Timezone Abreviations (Daylight Savings Time) [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
by Peter Stagg March 31, 2013

March 31, 2013

I have resently had the clasic issue at work with strftime returning only EST, CST (Standard Time) etc. as the timezone abreviation for Australian time zones even when where in daylight savings time. Given that the Australian Government now has offical advice as to what these abreviations should be <http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/our-country/time#daylightsaving> would it not be possible to include them in the data now? Regards, Peter Stagg | Web Developer, Radar Systems Bureau of Meteorology Australian Meteorological Data Information Services System (AMDISS) Bureau of Meteorology GPO Box 1289 Melbourne VIC 3001 Level 6, 700 Collins Street, Docklands VIC 3008 Tel: +61 3 9669 4232 | Fax: +61 3 9669 4128 www.bom.gov.au

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Ukraine time changes
by Michael Hustwait March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Hi there As a reader of your website I understand ukraine is due to scrap dst from end march 2013 and stay on winter trime permanently Is this still the case? Regards Michael Hustwait Watford London England

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Praguay DST Update
by Juan Carlos YJ. Lin March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Dear Paul Eggert I will like to contribute to update Paraguay DST timezone info. At 2013-b (Released 2013-03-11 ) Paraguay DST is set as no permanent change. Since there is a decree 10.780 ( 2013-03-15 ) that make the change permanent, the database should be updated. Summary # From Juan Carlos YJ Lin ( 2013-03-25 ) # A decree by President was issued in Paraguay (no. 10780) on 2013-03-15 that changed the # DST method to be from the first Sunday in October to the fourth Sunday in March (60 minutes) # So the change is permanent. Attached the decree pdf issued by Paraguay President You can find it out in by searching 10780 decree at http://www.presidencia.gov.py/decretos.php Juan Carlos Lin Unisoft S.A. +595-993-288330 --------------------------------------------------- "Antes de imprimir, recuC)rdese de su compromiso con el Medio Ambiente" "Aviso: Este mensaje es dirigido para su destinatario y contiene informaciones que no pueden ser usadas por otras personas que no sean su(s) destinatario(s). La retransmisiC3n del contenido no estC! autorizada fuera del contexto de su envC-o y a quien corresponde. El uso no autorizado de la informaciC3n en este mensaje se halla penado por las leyes vigentes en todo el mundo. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor bC3rrala y notifique al remitente en la brevedad posible. El contenido de este mensaje no es responsabilidad de la Empresa y debe ser atribuido siempre a su autor. Gracias."

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Paraguay DST Changes
by Juan Carlos YJ. Lin March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Dear Paul Eggert I will like to contribute to update Paraguay DST timezone info. At 2013-b (Released 2013-03-11) Paraguay DST is set as no permanent change. Since there is a decree 10.780 (2013-03-15) that make the change permanent, the database should be updated. Summary # From Juan Carlos YJ Lin (2013-03-25) # A decree by President was issued in Paraguay (no. 10780) on 2013-03-15 that changed the # DST method to be from the first Sunday in October to the fourth Sunday in March (60 minutes) # So the change is permanent. Attached the decree pdf issued by Paraguay President You can find it out in by searching 10780 decree at http://www.presidencia.gov.py/decretos.php JUAN CARLOS YJ LIN Tecnología de la Información MONALISA Internacional SA Boquerón 310 Ciudad del Este – PARAGUAY Tel + 595 61 500 645 Fax + 595 61 512 695 lin(a)monalisa.com.py www.monalisa.com.py --------------------------------------------------- "Antes de imprimir, recuérdese de su compromiso con el Medio Ambiente" "Aviso: Este mensaje es dirigido para su destinatario y contiene informaciones que no pueden ser usadas por otras personas que no sean su(s) destinatario(s). La retransmisión del contenido no está autorizada fuera del contexto de su envío y a quien corresponde. El uso no autorizado de la información en este mensaje se halla penado por las leyes vigentes en todo el mundo. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor bórrala y notifique al remitente en la brevedad posible. El contenido de este mensaje no es responsabilidad de la Empresa y debe ser atribuido siempre a su autor. Gracias."

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Turkey DST time
by Serkan Kaba March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Hi, The time at night where Turkey switches to DST is different from rest of the Europe. Please check http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/clockchange.html?n=19&year=2013 for details. Regards, Serkan

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Re: [tz] Turkey DST time
by Serkan Kaba March 25, 2013

March 25, 2013

Merhaba, Yes apparently that's the case. Thanks for validating this. There are plans for fixing the timezone to UTC+3 in 2014 but we'll see. Regards, Serkan ________________________________ From: Even Scharning <tzdb(a)time.is> To: Serkan Kaba <serkan_kaba(a)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [tz] Turkey DST time Merhaba Serkan, Turkey is constantly one hour ahead of most of Europe, but the DST switch occurs simultaneously in Turkey and Europe. The rules in the Time Zone Database are correct. This page illustrates the upcoming DST switch: http://time.is/compare/0000_31_Mar_2013_UTC/CET/Turkey Sincerely, Even Scharning Time.is - exact time, any time zone http://time.is/ On 2013-03-25 7:18, Serkan Kaba wrote: > Hi, > > The time at night where Turkey switches to DST is different from rest > of the Europe. Please check > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/clockchange.html?n=19&year=2013 > [1] for details. > > Regards, > Serkan

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