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Fwd: offtopic? csail.mit.edu - tabs vs spaces
by Tobias Conradi May 2, 2013

May 2, 2013

Garrett Wollman has question that involves copyright. I am not a lawyer, maybe someone else can help. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Garrett Wollman <wollman(a)csail.mit.edu> Date: Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:37 AM Subject: [tz] offtopic? csail.mit.edu - tabs vs spaces To: Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> <<On Fri, 3 May 2013 01:10:29 +0200, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> said: > Can someone help GAWollman how to only get emails that he wants? What part of "do not post private email to public mailing-lists without the copyright owner's permission" don't you understand? -GAWollman -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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offtopic? csail.mit.edu - tabs vs spaces
by Tobias Conradi May 2, 2013

May 2, 2013

Can someone help GAWollman how to only get emails that he wants? On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Garrett Wollman <wollman(a)csail.mit.edu> wrote: > <<On Fri, 3 May 2013 00:53:22 +0200, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> said: > >> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Garrett Wollman <wollman(a)csail.mit.edu> wrote: >>> <<On Thu, 2 May 2013 22:18:50 +0200, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> said: >>> >>>>> you seem to be >>>>> being deliberately disingenuous. >>>> To you. >>> >>> No, to everyone. >> Not to me. > >>> Please go away. >> What BCP or Theory rule you are referring to? > > There is no BCP rule that says "don't be a twit in public"; you are > expected to have learned this in primary school. > >>> You are wasting everyone's valuable >>> time and attention. >> You cannot know that. > > You are certainly wasting my valuable time and attention, and I don't > believe that I am atypical. > > I do not recall giving you permission to repost my email to a public > mailing-list. > > -GAWollman -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Re: [tz] tabs vs spaces
by Tobias Conradi May 2, 2013

May 2, 2013

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:02 AM, Garrett Wollman <wollman(a)csail.mit.edu> wrote: > <<On Thu, 2 May 2013 22:18:50 +0200, Tobias Conradi <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> said: > >>> you seem to be >>> being deliberately disingenuous. >> To you. > > No, to everyone. Not to me. > Please go away. What BCP or Theory rule you are referring to? > You are wasting everyone's valuable > time and attention. You cannot know that. > -GAWollman -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Russian Asia/Khandyga Asia/Ust-Nera
by Marvel, Jim (CPCOE) April 30, 2013

April 30, 2013

Hi, Will there be a new shapefile due to the tz_data change? Thanks Jim Marvel Software Engineer II Honeywell ESEA/CMS/CP/CoE 8323 Lindbergh Court Sarasota FL 34243 Phone - 941.360.6209 (alt: 941.360.6213) Fax - 941.355.9241 Jim.Marvel(a)Honeywell.com<mailto:nancy.ramm@honeywell.com>

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Re: [tz] Ambiguous abbreviations for Australian timezones when daylight savings is in affect [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
by Timothy Arceri April 29, 2013

April 29, 2013

On 31/03/13 01:24, Paul Eggert wrote: >On 03/30/13 03:34, Timothy Arceri wrote: >> The links that I have presented in the other thread make it fairly clear that >> all states *are* using a consistent format for abbreviations. >I'm afraid that doesn't follow. One can easily find disagreements >with the contents of those links. For example, you gave a link to the >NSW Dept of Attorney General & Justice saying that in summer, eastern time >is abbreviated "AEDT". But that very web page also says, in another >place, that the abbreviation is "EDST". So this single source contradicts >the assertion that abbreviations are consistently used by the NSW >government. >Here's that URL again: >http://www.communityrelations.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/cru/daylight/definitions_o… >And the EDST-related quote from that page: >"Daylight saving or summer time is commonly expressed as EDST (Eastern Daylight Saving Time)." Just FYI I contacted the Department to enquire as to why they had included different abbreviations on that page and if they could clarify what abbreviation is officially used. While I did not get a direct response to my questions I did get a reply today: "Thank you for the feedback which you submitted regarding abbreviations the Department uses for daylight saving on its website. You may be interested to know that the Department has noted your concerns and has updated its website accordingly." Looking at the page they have now removed all reference to EDST and have also additionally added abbreviations for all other states mentioned. Tim

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FTP server down?
by enh April 23, 2013

April 23, 2013

i haven't been able to contact the FTP server this morning. i added support for getting updates from the HTTP server ( https://android-review.googlesource.com/57332) but FTP is still the preferred method because: 1. you can get a directory listing via FTP but not HTTP, so if you miss a couple of changes, my script can't take you through the intermediates so the git history remains complete. 2. you can't get the .asc files via HTTP, so no verification. if HTTP is the preferred download method going forward, could we get .asc files on there and have directory listings turned on for the releases directory? --elliott (Android tzdata maintainer)

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Proposal to change Macquarie Island to be Australian territory
by Tobias Conradi April 22, 2013

April 22, 2013

UNESCO http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/629 lists it as Australia | State of Tasmania http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-3166-1_decoding_table does not contain a code for Tasmania, thus Australia "AU" is the applicable code. ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/zone.tab Change AQ -5430+15857 Antarctica/Macquarie Macquarie Island Station, Macquarie Island To AU -5430+15857 Antarctica/Macquarie Macquarie Island Station, Macquarie Island ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/antarctica Move Antarctica/Macquarie content to ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/data/australasia in analogy to Turkey and Russia, ISO countries that are not split between two files. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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World map showing IANA zone area by colored zone labels
by Tobias Conradi April 22, 2013

April 22, 2013

A map showing the area-part of the time zone with differently colored zone labels has been published, since the image URL may change, here is only an indirect link: http://anna.info/wiki/ANNA_time_zone_maps Areas, as defined in the Theory file, having at least one labeled zone in the map are: America, Europe, Africa, Asia, Australia, Antarctic, Arctic, Atlantic, Indian The unique three character codes have been chosen over the tzids to get more zone labels on the map. All codes that do not contain the character "0" or "1" represent the location part of an UN/LOCODE in that zone, mostly the location. The map is based on data in tz_world_mp.zip from http://efele.net/maps/tz/world/ projected with qgis. I had no time yet to color the zones and did not manage to get higher resolution or SVG. I could make an SVG, but not with the labels. The parallels are multiple of 30 degree from the poles, so the equator is shown as well as the Antartic Treaty boundary. Antarctica/Macquarie and Arctic/Longyearbyen are shown in gray and are the only location labels shown for their area. Looking at the map I found South Georgia, which located in ocean water and has almost the same latitude as Macquarie The coordinates in zone.tab are: -5416-03632 Atlantic/South_Georgia -5430+15857 Antarctica/Macquarie -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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CLDR UN/LOCODE usage
by Tobias Conradi April 21, 2013

April 21, 2013

Was: Re: [tz] Proposal to change Macquarie Island to be Australian territory A reply to :http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2013-April/019135.html First LOCODE message in the thread was at http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2013-April/019114.html ------------ On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Mark Davis ☕ <mark(a)macchiato.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Tobias Conradi > <mail.2012(a)tobiasconradi.com> wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Mark Davis ☕ <mark(a)macchiato.com> wrote: >> >> Variable length and inconsistent country code usage: >> > >> > This is a misunderstanding. >> Of the UN LOCODE system, on the side of CLDR designers. >> >> > CLDR is specified to use 5 letter UN LOCODEs where they exist. Where >> > they do >> > not exist, it is specified to use a non-5-letter code, precisely so that >> > they do not overlap with future UN LOCODEs. >> That could have been easily achieved with 5-letter codes, as has been >> shown at: >> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017974.html and >> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017980.html >> >> If overlap prevention the goal, then there was misunderstanding of the >> UN LOCODE system on the side of CLDR. > > > The only way that there would be a problem for CLDR is if the UN LOCODEs > could be other than 5 alphanumerics. It may be true that there is no /problem for CLDR/ - but the claim was that CLDR has "Variable length and inconsistent country code usage" > > According to > http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/cefact/locode/unlocode_manual.pdf, the UN > LOCODE would be 5 letters and possibly numbers (in positions 3-5). As long > as any additional CLDR identifiers did not match that, there wouldn't be an > overlap. > > So I don't understand your contention. Are you saying that UN LOCODEs, can > in fact consist of other than 5 alphanumerics? I don't say so, and AFAICS never said so. >> > When the codes are not 5 >> > letters, the first two letters have no meaning. >> Except where they have. And for some from the US, even the first 4 >> have a meaning: >> debsngn: de = Germany >> gldkshvn: gl = Greenland >> mxstis: mx = Mexico >> rukhndg: ru = Russia >> ruunera: ru = Russia >> usinvev: us = US (usin = Indiana) >> usnavajo: us = US >> usndcnt: us = US (usnd = North Dakota) >> usndnsl: us = US (usnd = North Dakota) > > > I should have said: When the codes are not 5 alphanumerics, the first two > letters do not *necessarily* denote a country code. That was my starting claim: "inconsistent country code usage" >> > The codes are stablized, meaning that they will not change no matter >> > what >> > changes happen in the base codes. So if Hawaii leaves the US and joins >> > Canada as a new province, "ushnl" would not change in CLDR even if the >> > UN >> > LOCODE changes to "cahnl" or something else. >> And combining this with "When the codes are not 5 letters, the first >> two letters have no meaning.", assuming that, if they have 5 letters >> they /may/ have a meaning, leads to the fact that the meaning in CLDR >> would be different from the meaning in the UN LOCODE system. > > > I don't understand what you are saying: that would only be an issue if there > were overlaps. What don't you understand in : "the meaning in CLDR would be different from the meaning in the UN LOCODE system"? The meaning of the first two letters in the UN/LOCODE system, except for private range codes, is to show the current valid ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 country code for the country the location identified by the UN/LOCODE is located in. >> A statement on why a country relation was not seen suitable for time >> zone identifiers can be found at: >> ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory >> "Be robust in the presence of political changes." > > > That's fine for TZ codes. As far as CLDR is concerned, however, the main > goal is to have an unambiguous, stable ID that is from 3-8 ASCII > alphanumerics long and maps to TZ codes. The 3-8 ASCII limitation is imposed > by BCP47, so we could not use the TZ codes unmodified. We could have chosen > to simply number them, but decided that the UN LOCODEs would be a bit > simpler to deal with. A "3-8 ASCII limitation [...] imposed by BCP47" would have allowed for fixed length 5-digit codes. As emailed here: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2013-April/019117.html "It is common for identifiers created by ISO to have fixed length, e.g. ISWC, ISSN, ISMN, ISRC, ISBN, ISNI, ISAN, ISO country codes, ISO language codes." But CLDR for an unstated reason did choose variable length. If one lists them in a table, the column containing them is unnecessarily wider. If one puts them as labels on a map, they are harder to fit. In both cases, the non-5-character codes draw extra attention by the reader to them. Maybe all new assignments can be restricted to 5-character codes? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com

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Re: [tz] Proposal to use Asia/Tel_Aviv for Israel - Jerusalem is not internationally recognized as part of Israel
by SM April 20, 2013

April 20, 2013

At 06:21 20-04-2013, Tobias Conradi wrote: >== Problem == >Jerusalem is internationally not recognized as part of Israel. Using >Jerusalem as reference location for Israel in the IANA time zone >database may thus violate UN resolutions. If I recall correctly the argument was to use population size. Regards, -sm

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