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Potentially a libel/ criminal offence on the tz mailing list WAS: Housekeeping
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 4:05 PM, gunther Vermeir <gunther.vermeir(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I assume you refer to tobias conradi's several wiki/media/pedia/etc bans? If your claim cannot be proven it may constitute libel, which is a criminal offence in several jurisdictions. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Proposed changes: Sakha/Kuril shifts in 2011
by Arthur David Olson May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

I've attached proposed changes for 2011 Sakha/Kuril time zone shifts; they also appear below (with tab characters mangled). --ado diff -r -c new/europe newer/europe *** new/europe 2012-05-05 09:40:53.091364400 -0400 --- newer/europe 2012-05-09 10:32:28.819887000 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.43 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)europe 8.44 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. *************** *** 2044,2049 **** --- 2044,2113 ---- # Russia + # From Alexander Krivenyshev (2011-09-15): + # Based on last Russian Government Decree # 725 on August 31, 2011 + # (Government document + # <a href="http://www.government.ru/gov/results/16355/print/"> + # http://www.government.ru/gov/results/16355/print/ + # </a> + # in Russian) + # there are few corrections have to be made for some Russian time zones... + # All updated Russian Time Zones were placed in table and translated to English + # by WorldTimeZone.com at the link below: + # <a href="http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_russia36.htm"> + # http://www.worldtimezone.com/dst_news/dst_news_russia36.htm + # </a> + + # From Sanjeev Gupta (2011-09-27): + # Scans of [Decree #23 of January 8, 1992] are available at: + # <a href="http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966"> + # http://government.consultant.ru/page.aspx?1223966 + # They are in Cyrillic letters (presumably Russian). + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Regarding the instant when clocks in time-zone-shifting parts of Russia + # changed in September 2011: + # + # One source is + # < a href="http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/> + # http://government.ru/gov/results/16355/ + # </a> + # which, according to translate.google.com, begins "Decree of August 31, + # 2011 No 725" and contains no other dates or "effective date" information. + # + # Another source is + # <a href="http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html"> + # http://www.rg.ru/2011/09/06/chas-zona-dok.html + # </a> + # which, according to translate.google.com, begins "Resolution of the + # Government of the Russian Federation on August 31, 2011 N 725" and also + # contains "Date first official publication: September 6, 2011 Posted on: + # in the 'RG' - Federal Issue number 5573 September 6, 2011" but which + # does not contain any "effective date" information. + # + # Another source is + # <a href=" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7"> + # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oymyakonsky_District#cite_note-RuTime-7 + # </a> + # which, in note 8, contains "Resolution #725 of August 31, 2011... + # Effective as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication" + # but which does not contain any reference to September 6, 2011. + # + # The Wikipedia article refers to + # <a href=" http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=118896"> + # http://base.consultant.ru/cons/cgi/online.cgi?req=doc;base=LAW;n=118896 + # </a> + # which seems to copy the text of the government.ru page. + # + # Tobias Conradi combines Wikipedia's + # "as of after 7 days following the day of the official publication" + # with www.rg.ru's "Date of first official publication: September 6, 2011" to get + # September 13, 2011 as the cutover date (unusually, a Tuesday, as Tobias Conradi notes). + # + # None of the sources indicates a time of day for changing clocks. + # + # Go with 2011-09-13 0:00s. + # From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22): # Except for Moscow after 1919-07-01, I invented the time zone abbreviations. # Moscow time zone abbreviations after 1919-07-01, and Moscow rules after 1991, *************** *** 2330,2343 **** # [parts of] Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya). # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): ! # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, Tomponskij, Ust'-Majskij, ! # Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok 8:47:44 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 11:00 - VLAT # # Sakhalinskaya oblast'. # The Zone name should be Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but that's too long. --- 2394,2419 ---- # [parts of] Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya). # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): ! # The Sakha districts are: Bulunskij, Verkhoyanskij, ... Ust'-Yanskij. Zone Asia/Vladivostok 8:47:44 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 11:00 - VLAT + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Tomponskij and Ust'-Majskij switched from Vladivostok time to Yakutsk time + # in 2011. + + Zone Asia/Khandyga 9:02:13 - LMT 1922 Nov 15 + 9:00 - VLAT 1930 Jun 21 # Vladivostok Time + 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 9:00 Russia VLA%sST 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 10:00 Russia VLA%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 11:00 - VLAT 2011 Sep 13 0:00s # Decree 725? + 10:00 - YAKT + # # Sakhalinskaya oblast'. # The Zone name should be Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but that's too long. *************** *** 2356,2368 **** # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, ! # Nizhnekolymskij, Ojmyakonskij, Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan 10:03:12 - LMT 1924 May 2 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 12:00 - MAGT # # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Kamchatskaya oblast', Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug. --- 2432,2456 ---- # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2009-11-29): # The Sakha districts are: Abyjskij, Allaikhovskij, Verkhhhnekolymskij, Momskij, ! # Nizhnekolymskij, ... Srednekolymskij. Zone Asia/Magadan 10:03:12 - LMT 1924 May 2 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s 12:00 - MAGT + + # From Arthur David Olson (2012-05-09): + # Ojmyakonskij and the Kuril Islands switched from + # Magadan time to Vladivostok time in 2011 + Zone Asia/Ust-Nera 9:32:54 - LMT 1924 May 2 + 10:00 - MAGT 1930 Jun 21 # Magadan Time + 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 1991 Mar 31 2:00s + 10:00 Russia MAG%sT 1992 Jan 19 2:00s + 11:00 Russia MAG%sT 2011 Mar 27 2:00s + 12:00 - MAGT 2011 Sep 13 0:00s # Decree 725? + 11:00 - VLAT + # # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Kamchatskaya oblast', Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug. diff -r -c new/zone.tab newer/zone.tab *** new/zone.tab 2012-05-05 09:40:50.719228800 -0400 --- newer/zone.tab 2012-05-09 10:29:45.352537200 -0400 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.57 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.58 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 344,351 **** --- 344,353 ---- RU +5601+09250 Asia/Krasnoyarsk Moscow+04 - Yenisei River RU +5216+10420 Asia/Irkutsk Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal RU +6200+12940 Asia/Yakutsk Moscow+06 - Lena River + RU +623923+1353314 Asia/Khandyga Moscow+06 - Tomponsky, Ust-Maysky RU +4310+13156 Asia/Vladivostok Moscow+07 - Amur River RU +4658+14242 Asia/Sakhalin Moscow+07 - Sakhalin Island + RU +643337+1431336 Asia/Ust-Nera Moscow+07 - Oymyakonsky RU +5934+15048 Asia/Magadan Moscow+08 - Magadan RU +5301+15839 Asia/Kamchatka Moscow+08 - Kamchatka RU +6445+17729 Asia/Anadyr Moscow+08 - Bering Sea

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Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: >> And it is privacy violation to send unsolicited private emails. > > We disagree OK. > I shall not engage your further given your position. Thank you. > This is a private message I expect not to see forwarded to the list. I will start not forwarding your private message to me, after you stop sending me private messages. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Below an opinion of Steffen Daode Nurpmeso, unfortunately in German, which is not the main language for the tz mailing list. 2012/5/9 Steffen Daode Nurpmeso <sdaoden(a)googlemail.com>: > Es gibt viele Leute, die Fehler melden, auch bittere, > und die trotzdem niemals irgendeine Rückmeldung bekommen. > Auf deine momentane Art erreicht man jedenfalls auf gar keinen > Fall irgendetwas, erst recht nichts gutes. > Und wieso glaube ich, dass du das genau weißt. > Danke für dein Verständnis. > > --steffen > Forza Figa! -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Fwd: Time Zone List
by Marshall Eubanks May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Here is your answer Marshall ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Russ Housley <housley(a)vigilsec.com> Date: Wed, May 9, 2012 at 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Time Zone List To: Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks(a)gmail.com> Done quite a while ago. On May 9, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Marshall Eubanks wrote: > Do you know if the IESG confirmed Paul Eggert as admin and expert of > the time zone database mailing list. > > Regards > Marshall

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Re: [tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 7:52 PM, John Hawkinson <jhawk(a)mit.edu> wrote: > I just wanted to add my voice to that of others. > You are out of line. > Please be more polite and respectful or you are likely to be ignored, > and certainly your concerns will be marginalized. My concern is having a correct as possible tzdb. If my concerns will be marginalized, it would be "marginalizing" the goal of having bugs fixed. I never have respect towards bugs, I am happy to make them better visible by posting them on the list. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

was: [tz] proposed changes: past Altai/Tomsk time zone shifts On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.oz.au> wrote: > Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 04:11:55 +0200 > From: Tobias Conradi <tobias.conradi(a)gmail.com> > Message-ID: <CAAGevbVsY5SEs=3NGyau7T_aLW+W0cV18tofP3d_aDfjTw1M0w(a)mail.gmail.com> > > | Putting something into the wrong timezone is by definition having a > | bug in the TIMEZONE database. > > No, once again, it is not, or not in any way that is important. There was no claim of importance, the claim only was that there is a bug. > | > If the comments in the zone file are wrong, > | > we should certainly fix them sometime, > | Now you change your opinion? > > No, not at all, we fix erroneous comments, but erroneous comments are > not a bug, as they don't affect the results, Of course they do. If one selects timezone Asia/Baku based on a comment that this is the tz zone for Chicago then one would get false offsets and false transitions. > they're just a minor > insignificant error. Not to me, and maybe not for the people trying to find the Chicago zone data. > Like any error, such things should get fixed, > but like other irrelevant errors, fixing them isn't urgent. Not for me. > | Any prove that all the view at > | http://stats.grok.se/en/201204/List_of_tz_database_time_zones > | are from list members? > > List members can do whatever they like, and some of the people on > this list (and associated with this project) certainly do attempt to > make maps of timezones in one way or another. That's all fine, but > it is not this project. I didn't claim that. Your claim was " ...comments .... have no real importance and are generally only ever even seen by the people on this list (no-one else is really very likely to read through all of that stuff -...)" You provide no proof that the views of the Wikipedia page in question came only from list members. In absence of this, I think your claim is false. > | >(no-one else is really very likely to > | > read through all of that stuff - zic certainly doesn't care.) > | I read the comments before I was a list member. > > Sure, there are people who look at this stuff, but not very many > compared with the number of people who use the real product of this > project - which is the zone database. Can you tell a way of how a user determines the correct zone for a random location in Indiana, selecting between America/Indiana/Indianapolis America/Indiana/Vincennes America/Indiana/Winamac America/Indiana/Marengo America/Indiana/Petersburg America/Indiana/Vevay America/Kentucky/Louisville America/New York without reading the comments? -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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zone.tab comment for Europe/Volgograd
by Tobias Conradi May 9, 2012

May 9, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c/zone.tab Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea tzdata2012c/europe # Astrakhanskaya oblast', Kirovskaya oblast', Saratovskaya oblast', # Volgogradskaya oblast'. ... Zone Europe/Volgograd Propose: zone.tab Europe/Volgograd Moscow+00 - Astrakhan, Kirov, Saratov, Volgograd Reasoning: "Astrakhan, Kirov, Saratov, Volgograd" refers to federal subjects (1st level country subdivisions), while "Caspian Sea" to a lake only. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia The federal subjects of Russia that are bordering the Caspian Sea are 05 Dagestan 08 Kalmykia 20 Chechnya 30 Astrakhan Dagestan, Kalmykia, Chechnya according to the europe file are located in Zone Europe/Moscow. Only Astrakhan is contained in both groups (Caspian Sea neigbor, Zone Europe/Volgograd member). So Caspian Sea in the comment column is not only imprecise but actually misleading. The comment for Europe/Moscow in zone.tab is Moscow+00 - west Russia a comment that does not list Dagestan, Kalmykia, Chechnya. Therefore a reader could not deduct that these three, out of four Caspian Sea neighbors among the federal subjects, don't belong to "Moscow+00 - Caspian Sea". -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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zone.tab comment for Asia/Irkutsk
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

Current: tzdata2012c\zone.tab "Moscow+05 - Lake Baikal" tzdata2012c\europe # From Oscar van Vlijmen (2001-08-25): [This region consists of] # Respublika Buryatiya, Irkutskaya oblast', # Ust'-Ordynskij Buryatskij avtonomnyj okrug. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ust-Orda_Buryat_Okrug "Ust-Orda Buryatia, is an administrative division of Irkutsk Oblast" " It was a federal subject of Russia (an autonomous okrug of Irkutsk Oblast) from 1993 to January 1, 2008, when it merged with Irkutsk Oblast (it also had autonomous okrug status from September 26, 1937 to 1993" Propose: zone.tab "Moscow+05 - Irkutsk, Buryatia" europe Add a notice of merge. Reasoning: "Irkutsk, Buryatia" refers to federal subjects (1st level country subdivisions), while "Lake Baikal" to a lake only. But the zone covers the area of the two federal subjects. Do it similar to the 2nd level country subdivision comments for these US zones: America/Kentucky/Monticello Eastern Time - Kentucky - Wayne County America/Indiana/Indianapolis Eastern Time - Indiana - most locations America/Indiana/Vincennes Eastern Time - Indiana - Daviess, Dubois, Knox & Martin Counties America/Indiana/Winamac Eastern Time - Indiana - Pulaski County America/Indiana/Marengo Eastern Time - Indiana - Crawford County America/Indiana/Petersburg Eastern Time - Indiana - Pike County America/Indiana/Vevay Eastern Time - Indiana - Switzerland County -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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Sakhalin bug - seven months past - still not fixed
by Tobias Conradi May 8, 2012

May 8, 2012

reported 2011-09-16 by Alexander Krivenyshev http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008798.html 2012-09-22 Tobias Conradi proposes new zone Asia/Yuzhno-Kurilsk http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-September/008845.html 2012-10-02 Arthur David Olson starts the last thread in 2012 covering this Sakhalin bug http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008933.html ----- This may need a zone creation similar to the ones in the Sakha Republic. The Sakha summary may contain all needed laws: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017688.html If I have time, the bug is open and I am still allowed to post to the tz mailing list I may mail a deeper analyze of the needed fix, similar to the one I did create for the Sakha Republic. If not, this posting here may serve simply as a reminder. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com/

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