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FW: Time Zone abbreviations - request
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] Feb. 25, 2008

Feb. 25, 2008

I'm forwarding this message from Ilya Stein, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time mailing list, please direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Ilya.Shtein(a)metavante.com [mailto:Ilya.Shtein@metavante.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 5:59 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Cc: Troy.Bradley(a)metavante.com Subject: Time Zone abbreviations - request Hello, Our company is in need for standard abbreviations that would map one-to-one to the names used in the Olson database. These abbreviations must be as short as possible and significantly shorter than the conventional Olson names. We can definitely come up with our own abbreviations, but I am wondering if any such abbreviations exist in the Olson db. This is important because we want to be able to point our external partners to a source they are already familiar with, rather than invent something homegrown and impose it on our partners. If such abbreviations do not exist, is it possible to create them? We think it will be beneficial for many users who have space limitations and can't use the Olson names "as is", but need access to the functionality. We are willing to create such list, work with the keepers of the Olson DB to make it official, and maintain the list if needed. One possible implementation could consist of two parts: 1) a two-letter ocean/continent abbreviation: Africa Af America Am Antarctica An Arctic Ar Asia As Atlantic At Australia Au Europe Eu Indian In Mideast Me Pacific Pa Miscellaneous <no abbreviation> 2) an abbreviation of the city name; we haven't done any research yet of how many letters are needed, but something like a standard airport code could be used here, perhaps with 1-2 additional characters for additional information (for example, Riyadh87 would be RUH87). We are very interested in getting the answer as soon as possible. Thank you, ----------------------------------------- Ilya Shtein Enterprise Software Architecture Metavante Technologies ilya.shtein(a)metavante.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy.

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Time Zone abbreviations - request
by Ilya.Shtein＠metavante.com Feb. 20, 2008

Feb. 20, 2008

Hello, Our company is in need for standard abbreviations that would map one-to-one to the names used in the Olson database. These abbreviations must be as short as possible and significantly shorter than the conventional Olson names. We can definitely come up with our own abbreviations, but I am wondering if any such abbreviations exist in the Olson db. This is important because we want to be able to point our external partners to a source they are already familiar with, rather than invent something homegrown and impose it on our partners. If such abbreviations do not exist, is it possible to create them? We think it will be beneficial for many users who have space limitations and can't use the Olson names "as is", but need access to the functionality. We are willing to create such list, work with the keepers of the Olson DB to make it official, and maintain the list if needed. One possible implementation could consist of two parts: 1) a two-letter ocean/continent abbreviation: Africa Af America Am Antarctica An Arctic Ar Asia As Atlantic At Australia Au Europe Eu Indian In Mideast Me Pacific Pa Miscellaneous <no abbreviation> 2) an abbreviation of the city name; we haven't done any research yet of how many letters are needed, but something like a standard airport code could be used here, perhaps with 1-2 additional characters for additional information (for example, Riyadh87 would be RUH87). We are very interested in getting the answer as soon as possible. Thank you, ----------------------------------------- Ilya Shtein Enterprise Software Architecture Metavante Technologies ilya.shtein(a)metavante.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy.

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TZ
by Andrew Novick Feb. 19, 2008

Feb. 19, 2008

Hello, I am Andrew Novick from the NIST Time and Frequency Division. Although we are not an official source for time zones, we do use time zone data for our higher uncertainty time dissemination methods, like the www.time.gov web site. We have been talking to the DOT and GPO about TZ standards. I have not waded through the TZarchive completely, but can you give me a primer on it's reference sources and intent? One of your current interests is whether or not it is imperative to keep 3-letter TZ designations. With zones like Chamorro, Hawaii-Aleutian and Alaska, many sources have used 4-letter designations. Thanks! Andrew Novick NIST novick(a)nist.gov 303-497-3378

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Withdraw logwtmp.c from time zone distribution?
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] Feb. 15, 2008

Feb. 15, 2008

The file "logwtmp.c" is part of the time zone package to ensure that a "date" command can be compiled. The time zone Makefile notes that: # We use the system's logwtmp in preference to ours if available. Well then: are there any systems out there today that need the time zone package's version of logwtmp.c? If there aren't, we can drop logwtmp.c from the package. If there are, we need to provide compile-time control over whether time stamps written to the log file are four bytes (to be compatible with historic practice) or eight bytes (the emerging width of time stamps). --ado

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FW: FW: when did China adopt one time zone?
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] Feb. 11, 2008

Feb. 11, 2008

I'm forwarding this message from Thomas S. Mullaney, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Thomas S. Mullaney [mailto:tsmullaney@stanford.edu] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:50 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Cc: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: FW: when did China adopt one time zone? I think you're combining two subjects that need to treated separately: daylight savings (which, you're correct, wasn't implemented until the 1980s) and the unified time zone centered near Beijing (which was implemented in 1949). Briefly, there was also a "Lhasa Time" in Tibet and "Urumqi Time" in Xinjiang. The first was ceased, and the second eventually recognized (again, in the 1980s). At 11:50 AM -0800 2/11/08, Paul Eggert wrote: > > From: Thomas S. Mullaney [mailto:tsmullaney@stanford.edu] >> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:55 > >> This is a project I started thinking about this past summer - a >> fascinating topic, no? > >Yes, quite addictive.... > >Perhaps there is a confusion between two different topics here. The >tz database is mostly concerned with the actual clock settings; it >doesn't record (except in comments) whether the time zone is called >"Beijing Time" or "Beiping Time" or something else. Historically, >Beijing Time (under whatever name) covered just part of the territory >of China; the question the tz database is concerned with is when this >was expanded to include the whole country. You can find a map of the >old "Beiping Time" (perhaps "Chungyuan Time" is a better name) zone in ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_China>. What's missing is when >that time zone expanded to included the whole country. > >I just now checked Google News for western news sources that talk >about China's single time zone, and couldn't find anything before 1986 >talking about China being in one time zone. (That article was: Jim >Mann, "A clumsy embrace for another western custom: China on daylight >time--sort of", Los Angeles Times, 1986-05-05. By the way, this >article confirms the tz database's data claiming that China began >observing daylight saving time in 1986.) > >Obviously this simple search isn't conclusive, as it doesn't include >reliable Chinese sources; still, it is not at all clear from the data >mentioned above that China switched to a single time zone in 1949. -- --- Thomas S. Mullaney Assistant Professor Modern Chinese History Department of History Stanford University 450 Serra Mall, Bld 200 Stanford, CA 94305-2024 T (650) 736-8386 F (650) 725-0597

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FW: when did China adopt one time zone?
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] Feb. 11, 2008

Feb. 11, 2008

I'm forwarding this message from Thomas S. Mullaney, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado From: Thomas S. Mullaney [mailto:tsmullaney@stanford.edu] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 3:55 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: when did China adopt one time zone? Dear Paul, Thanks for your email. The dating of "Beijing Time" is a little tricky, but thanks to Guo Qingsheng, a scholar and engineer at the Chinese Academy of Sciences Shaanxi Observatory, we know that the implementation of Beijing Time must have come after September 27, 1949 - the date on which the official name of Beiping (Northern Peace) was changed to Beijing (Northern Capital) - and some time before October 7 - the date of the earliest source which Guo has found containing the term "Beijing Time." This is a project I started thinking about this past summer - a fascinating topic, no? Sincerely, Tom Mullaney In a book review in today's issue of _Science_ you reported that the Chinese government in 1949 opted to observe one time zone. This caught my interest because I help maintain the tz database, which records histories of time zone and daylight saving changes all over the world. The tz database is used by computer clocks all over the world, including what I expect are millions of clocks in China, so I'd like to get the details right. Here's the problem: the tz database, following Shanks & Pottenger (2003), records that the China switched to a single time zone on May 1, 1980, not in 1949. Since you are a historian of China I expect that you have a lot better sources than we do. Can you please mention the sources for the claim that the clocks changed in 1949 rather than in 1980? Thanks for any info you can provide. I'll CC: this message to the tz database mailing list, to give them a heads-up on this query. -- Paul Eggert, UCLA Computer Science Dept. References: Thomas S. Mullaney, Change of time over changing time. Science 319 (5864), 729 (2008-02-08), DOI: 10.1126/science.1152851, <http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/319/5864/729a>. Paul Eggert & Arthur David Olson, Sources for time zone and daylight saving time data <http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm> (2007-12-31); also see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoneinfo>. Thomas G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger, The International Atlas (6th edition). San Diego: ACS Publications, Inc. (2003). -- --- Thomas S. Mullaney Assistant Professor Modern Chinese History Department of History Stanford University 450 Serra Mall, Bld 200 Stanford, CA 94305-2024 T (650) 736-8386 F (650) 725-0597

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Atendimento online e Rastreador de visitantes
by Chat Comercial Feb. 11, 2008

Feb. 11, 2008

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FW: FW: Corrections to historic German timezone information
by Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] Feb. 11, 2008

Feb. 11, 2008

I'm forwarding this message from Sebastian Wangnick, who is not on the time zone mailing list (at least not at the address below). Those of you who are on the time zone mailing list should direct replies appropriately. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Sebastian Wangnick [mailto:sebastian.nospam01@wangnick.de] Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:09 To: tz(a)lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: WG: FW: Corrections to historic German timezone information Dear all, it seems the email below did not reach the mailing list. Kind regards, Sebastian Wangnick -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sebastian Wangnick [mailto:sebastian.nospam01@wangnick.de] Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Januar 2008 19:18 An: 'Paul Eggert' Cc: 'tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov' Betreff: AW: FW: Corrections to historic German timezone information Dear Paul, I understand your concern. As proposed, the timezone Europe/Berlin would be applicable for the "western" countries of the state of Germany and the western part of Berlin, and Europe/BerlinEast for what was formerly first the Sowjet zone and later the state GDR, namely the "eastern" countries of the state of Germany (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Brandenburg, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Thüringen) and the eastern part of Berlin. Creation of individual timezones for each of the countries of Germany is thus unneccessary. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Deutschland_politisch_bunt.png However, if you can maintain only one timezone for the state of Germany, you should probably use the new definition of Europe/Berlin, limiting the error in 1945 to the smaller territory and population, but please note that this would be considered politically incorrect by said population. In this case we will privately maintain a modified copy of the tz database. Kind regards, Sebastian Wangnick

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when did China adopt one time zone?
by Paul Eggert Feb. 8, 2008

Feb. 8, 2008

In a book review in today's issue of _Science_ you reported that the Chinese government in 1949 opted to observe one time zone. This caught my interest because I help maintain the tz database, which records histories of time zone and daylight saving changes all over the world. The tz database is used by computer clocks all over the world, including what I expect are millions of clocks in China, so I'd like to get the details right. Here's the problem: the tz database, following Shanks & Pottenger (2003), records that the China switched to a single time zone on May 1, 1980, not in 1949. Since you are a historian of China I expect that you have a lot better sources than we do. Can you please mention the sources for the claim that the clocks changed in 1949 rather than in 1980? Thanks for any info you can provide. I'll CC: this message to the tz database mailing list, to give them a heads-up on this query. -- Paul Eggert, UCLA Computer Science Dept. References: Thomas S. Mullaney, Change of time over changing time. Science 319 (5864), 729 (2008-02-08), DOI: 10.1126/science.1152851, <http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/319/5864/729a>. Paul Eggert & Arthur David Olson, Sources for time zone and daylight saving time data <http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm> (2007-12-31); also see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoneinfo>. Thomas G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger, The International Atlas (6th edition). San Diego: ACS Publications, Inc. (2003).

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WG: FW: Corrections to historic German timezone information
by Sebastian Wangnick Feb. 4, 2008

Feb. 4, 2008

Dear all, it seems the email below did not reach the mailing list. Kind regards, Sebastian Wangnick -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Sebastian Wangnick [mailto:sebastian.nospam01@wangnick.de] Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Januar 2008 19:18 An: 'Paul Eggert' Cc: 'tz(a)elsie.nci.nih.gov' Betreff: AW: FW: Corrections to historic German timezone information Dear Paul, I understand your concern. As proposed, the timezone Europe/Berlin would be applicable for the "western" countries of the state of Germany and the western part of Berlin, and Europe/BerlinEast for what was formerly first the Sowjet zone and later the state GDR, namely the "eastern" countries of the state of Germany (Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Brandenburg, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, Thüringen) and the eastern part of Berlin. Creation of individual timezones for each of the countries of Germany is thus unneccessary. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Deutschland_politisch_bunt.png However, if you can maintain only one timezone for the state of Germany, you should probably use the new definition of Europe/Berlin, limiting the error in 1945 to the smaller territory and population, but please note that this would be considered politically incorrect by said population. In this case we will privately maintain a modified copy of the tz database. Kind regards, Sebastian Wangnick

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