- UA-discuss - lists.iana.org

Re: [UA-discuss] Store domain in Punycode or Unicode?
by Dr Ajay Data April 4, 2018

April 4, 2018

+1 Andre..In XgenPlus Email Server, we store all domains in Unicode only and that`s the way to go. There are many benefits. In this ever changing and fast paced world, Who knows you may have xn-- domains allowed :) thanks Dr. Ajay DATA | Founder &amp CEO Get email id like अजय(a)xn--c2bd1gb.xn--h2brj9c in your own language,visit www.xgenplus.com From: Andre Schappo MailId : [80351250]To: "ua-discuss(a)icann.org" Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Store domain in Punycode or Unicode?Date: 04 Apr 2018 02:39:51 PM I think the Unicode form should be stored . My reasons for recommending this is a little different . Mostly, I use MySQL and phpMyAdmin for my database work. Storing IDNs and/or EAI addresses in Unicode form has advantages . ① I can search by constructing an SQL query in phpMyAdmin. eg all IDNs which contain 食品 ② I can learn a lot by visual inspection eg I can readily identify text being in Korean, Thai, Sinhala, Chinese, Arabic, Cyrillic scripts I could not do either of the above if only the punycode form is stored . Basically, people can relate to the Unicode form and not the punycode form. So, if it involves people, store in the Unicode form . Actually, there is one punycode label I always recognise, which is .xn--fiqs8s😀 xn--fiqs8s = 中国 = China. I recognise it because I have seen it so many times and I remember when it went live as I posted to IDNforums idnforums.com/forums/26659-china-idn-cctlds-are-live.html That is the only punycode label I recognise . Andr&eacute Schappo On 3 Apr 2018, at 20:51, Andrew Sullivan ajs(a)anvilwalrusden.com> wrote: Hi, On Tue, Apr 03, 2018 at 06:36:03PM +0000, Carolyn Liu via UA-discuss wrote: Today we do not allow customers to enter IDN (in Unicode) in our system (O365), so customers can only enter domain in ASCII, or an IDN in Punycode form . To be clear, this means that domain names with labels of the form xn--[punycode-goes-here] are allowed, but no non-LDH characters are allowed in any domain name label but, after permitting EAI addresses you will accept UTF-8 in the local-part? already brings a challenge for us since mail may come in as UTF8 form . Under EAI, it _will_ come in that form. allow our customers to enter a Unicode domain in O365, and which form we shall store the domain &ndash Unicode or punycode? If you attempt to support IDNA2003 or at least some of the compatibility modes of UTS#46, you effectively need to store both. IDNA2003 can lose information in a round trip from Punycode-form and Unicode-form, so you basically need to know the whole set. This fundamental problem was actually one of the most urgent requirements for IDNA2008, and it`s why some of us remain pretty annoyed with UTS#46 as a strategy since one of its profiles breaks that plan without any suggestion of how it`ll eventually wean people from it. (We didn`t have a weaning suggestion either in the IDNABIS WG, which is why we decided to break the backward compatibility in the few cases, reasoning that pain early in deployment was less bad than pain later.) If you`re restricting your supported domains to IDNA2008, then you don`t have to care: every actual U-label is also exactly one A-label, and conversely. So you can store U-labels or A-labels and get the same result. The usual recommendation is that you store U-labels just because storing A-labels will result in transformation for every user event, and that might have nasty performance effects. 1. Domains in our system is unique, meaning domain is a key. One domain shall only exist once and belong to one customer only . This is true regardless of whether it`s a U-label or A-label: since they`re DNS names they _must_ be unique globally within the DNS. 3. At gateway we need to know whether a domain is in our system. The match logic will be at follows: a. Is domain in system? If so go ahead and accept. b. If not, is it UTF8 form? If so convert to Punycode and search again . This sounds like a round trip plan. Why not just run it through the relevant algorithm and check one time? (LDH-only names will not undergo any transformation. You may need a coalesce function or similar.) 4. Every time when we display, we will always convert the domain to Unicode . This is a reason to prefer U-label forms: no conversion on display, when the user is waiting. 5. This is how DNS supports IDN. A uniform storage will make implementation a lot easier . This is true. But if we allow to store domain in Unicode, then we have to understand those in Punycode and those in Unicode and convert back and force. I understand we always need conversion, but if in only one form we know we always need to covert to the other form, vs we might need to covert both directions everywhere, very costly and very confusing . It is _certainly_ true that you want to pick one, and if you already have A-labels in the sytem then you might have a migration problem. That might be a reason to use A-labels for storage. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs(a)anvilwalrusden.com Do not Remove:[HID]20180404143951408[-HID]

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Store domain in Punycode or Unicode?
by Carolyn Liu April 4, 2018

April 4, 2018

Hi, I work for Microsoft and own project EAI with O365 mail flow for the most part. We recently announced the support for Phase 1 EAI - that we now support send and receive emails with EAI address. A question, or a challenge I would like to bring your attention and would like to discuss with this group. Today we do not allow customers to enter IDN (in Unicode) in our system (O365), so customers can only enter domain in ASCII, or an IDN in Punycode form. This already brings a challenge for us since mail may come in as UTF8 form. But more importantly, to prepare for the future support of EAI, we must design how to allow our customers to enter a Unicode domain in O365, and which form we shall store the domain - Unicode or punycode? Our proposal is to store domain in punycode. The reasons are at the follows: 1. Domains in our system is unique, meaning domain is a key. One domain shall only exist once and belong to one customer only. 2. We already allow customers to enter domain in Punycode code. 3. At gateway we need to know whether a domain is in our system. The match logic will be at follows: * Is domain in system? If so go ahead and accept. * If not, is it UTF8 form? If so convert to Punycode and search again. 4. Every time when we display, we will always convert the domain to Unicode. 5. This is how DNS supports IDN. A uniform storage will make implementation a lot easier. But if we allow to store domain in Unicode, then we have to understand those in Punycode and those in Unicode and convert back and force. I understand we always need conversion, but if in only one form we know we always need to covert to the other form, vs we might need to covert both directions everywhere, very costly and very confusing. Carolyn

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UASG @ ICANN62 in Panama? SHort answer - no
by Don Hollander April 4, 2018

April 4, 2018

I've had several people write to ask if we'll be having a UASG workshop as part of the ICANN62 meeting in Panama. The answer is no. This is a short, policy focussed meeting. We decided some time ago that we wouldn't have a formal presence Don Don Hollander Secretary General - UASG Skype: Don_Hollander

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UASG Tweeting Now – please share
by Audrey Fery-Forgues April 2, 2018

April 2, 2018

Hello All, Please check out UASGTech’s most recent post on Twitter: https://twitter.com/UASGTech/status/980890671652339713 Please be sure to follow the @UASGTech[twitter.com] handle, retweet, tag and like our posts in order to help spread the word on Universal Acceptance. Thank you, Audrey

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EuroDIG 2018
by Roberto Gaetano April 2, 2018

April 2, 2018

Hi all. Is anybody planning to attend the EuroDIG 2018, that will take place in Tbilisi, Georgia, from 5 to 6 June 2018 (with a Day 0 Monday 4 June)? See https://www.eurodig.org. One of the topics on the agenda is Universal Acceptance. I have volunteered to be the focal point for this topic - which does not mean to be the “expert”, just the person who tries to get things going 😊. As you can see from the session page https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/WS_06_2018 it is pretty much work in progress. Actually, to be honest, “work just being started, but already late”. I believe that it was an opportunity not to be missed, considering that in Georgia we will have local people attending - who’s native language uses a non-latin script - and wide participation from neighbouring countries and Eastern Europe - that share a similar situation. However, for turning this into a success - or at least a useful session - we need to have participation by people who can explain the technical issues and the way forward. I could do it, but not being an expert I believe that participation from the “real" folks will be instrumental to widen the awareness - and possibly to further participation. Best regards, Roberto

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Odg: EuroDIG 2018
by dusan＠dukes.in.rs April 2, 2018

April 2, 2018

Dear all, I am going. And I can help. Cheers Dusan Stojicevic Sent from my Commodore 64 ----- Odgovor ----- Od: "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto_gaetano(a)hotmail.com> Za: "Universal Acceptance" <UA-discuss(a)icann.org> Predmet: [UA-discuss] EuroDIG 2018 Datum: пон, апр 2, 2018 20:03 Hi all. Is anybody planning to attend the EuroDIG 2018, that will take place in Tbilisi, Georgia, from 5 to 6 June 2018 (with a Day 0 Monday 4 June)? See https://www.eurodig.org. One of the topics on the agenda is Universal Acceptance. I have volunteered to be the focal point for this topic - which does not mean to be the “expert”, just the person who tries to get things going 😊. As you can see from the session page https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/WS_06_2018 it is pretty much work in progress. Actually, to be honest, “work just being started, but already late”. I believe that it was an opportunity not to be missed, considering that in Georgia we will have local people attending - who’s native language uses a non-latin script - and wide participation from neighbouring countries and Eastern Europe - that share a similar situation. However, for turning this into a success - or at least a useful session - we need to have participation by people who can explain the technical issues and the way forward. I could do it, but not being an expert I believe that participation from the “real" folks will be instrumental to widen the awareness - and possibly to further participation. Best regards, Roberto

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Universal implementation of RFC 8369
by Andrew Sullivan April 2, 2018

April 2, 2018

Hi, I thought it might be useful to draw attention to RFC 8369, and observe that if it is widely deployed the common URI presentations will probably end up with square brackets in them, in order to mark the entry as an address rather than a host name. Clearly, we need to get to work on fixing the URI definition. Sorry I missed posting this yesterday, however. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs(a)anvilwalrusden.com

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Human Interest Stories
by Andre Schappo April 2, 2018

April 2, 2018

I wonder if there is any value in putting IDN/EAI human interest stories on uasg.tech<http://uasg.tech> ? Stories that people can more easily relate to. I like all the IDN/EAI geek stuff but many do not. About 2 months ago I wrote an internationalised programming challenge which features ADLaM, a script for writing African languages➜ jsfiddle.net/coas/x6cswfba<http://jsfiddle.net/coas/x6cswfba> I wrote this challenge from a mainly Unicode point of view. Then about a week ago I watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RExxEz-fioI which explains the human story behind ADLaM. My reaction was: Wow! What an amazing story! My EAI human interest story is: Most Chinese students I encounter have an adopted English name. Quite some years ago I decided I would adopt a Chinese name. There is story behind my adopted Chinese name. There is a very famous Canadian in China whose English name is Mark Rowswell dashan.com/who-is-dashan.html<http://dashan.com/who-is-dashan.html> One of the reasons he is so well known in China is that his Chinese is perfect. His adopted Chinese name is 大山, which means great or large mountain. Then one day a thought popped into my mind: "大山 has perfect Chinese but my Chinese is really poor, so obviously my adopted Chinese name should be 小山 (little mountain)". It started as a joke but I have kept this name and I do use it. It has served me well over the years as a great ice-breaker with Chinese students. And that is why my DataMail email is 小山(a)xn--wny099c.xn--3ds443g and my Coremail email is 小山(a)xn--blq510jgwa.xn--io0a7ix630h André Schappo

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French, Spanish & Portuguese Speakers wanted
by Don Hollander March 31, 2018

March 31, 2018

We've had request to get UASG007 translated and I'm looking for volunteers to review the document in French, Spanish and Portuguese. The translation is done, I'm now looking for people who know the topic to review the translations. Do please let me know if you can help. Thanks. Don Don Hollander Secretary General - UASG Skype: Don_Hollander

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https://youtu.be/REDeEhvHwsU Video from ICANN61
by Don Hollander March 31, 2018

March 31, 2018

UASG Members John Levine, Standcore LLC, Andrew Sullivan, IETF, Dr Ajay Data, XgenPlus, and Mark Svancarek, Microsoft share EAI and IDN updates. Don Hollander Secretary General - UASG Skype: Don_Hollander

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