[PATCH] Minor changes to iso3166.tab
As noted in the file, the table intentionally differs from the ISO 3166 English names, mostly using even shorter names than the official short name. In a few cases, it seems to be out of sync with ISO for no good reason: Official changes in ISO, where new is same length or shorter than original: Cape Verde -> Cabo Verde Czech Republic -> Czechia UTF-8 now used elsewhere, so why not for Curaçao: Curacao -> Curaçao No good reason to differ from the standard?: Macau -> Macao Personally, I would also change "Britain" to "United Kingdom", I think it's where people would look first. But it would go from shorter to longer, so I did not include it in the patch. It's still much shorter than many other names. Would "United Kingdom" make sense here? --- iso3166.tab | 8 ++++---- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) diff --git a/iso3166.tab b/iso3166.tab index 7a8df2c..0e07afd 100644 --- a/iso3166.tab +++ b/iso3166.tab @@ -74,11 +74,11 @@ CN China CO Colombia CR Costa Rica CU Cuba -CV Cape Verde -CW Curacao +CV Cabo Verde +CW Curaçao CX Christmas Island CY Cyprus -CZ Czech Republic +CZ Czechia DE Germany DJ Djibouti DK Denmark @@ -170,7 +170,7 @@ MK Macedonia ML Mali MM Myanmar (Burma) MN Mongolia -MO Macau +MO Macao MP Northern Mariana Islands MQ Martinique MR Mauritania -- Jiri Bohac <jbohac@suse.cz> SUSE Labs, SUSE CZ
On 11/16/2016 08:14 AM, Jiri Bohac wrote:
Cape Verde -> Cabo Verde Czech Republic -> Czechia
A few quick Google searches suggest that the old names are still more common in English-language sources, so let's just add the new names in commentary for now. We can revisit this if usage changes. In the meantime you might be amused by: Tait R. 'Nobody calls it Czechia': Czech Republic's new name fails to catch on. The Guardian. 2016-10-25. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/nobody-calls-it-czechia-czech-...
Curacao -> Curaçao
Thanks, good catch.
No good reason to differ from the standard?: Macau -> Macao
Ha! I changed it from Macao to Macau in 2002 <https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/bc16d3bf135e031dd5f9195c035e39972d3072b2>. I vaguely recall deciding that the latter was the "standard" back then. In hindsight perhaps I should have left it alone. Anyway, Google suggests that "Macau" is considerably more popular nowadays in English, so let's stand pat for now. We can always change it back if the tides shift again. Either way, both Asia/Macao (the pre-2002 zone name, now a link) and Asia/Macau (the current name) should continue to work indefinitely.
I would also change "Britain" to "United Kingdom",
"Britain" appears to be considerably more popular in English. Proposed patch attached. I hope I got the accents right in your name....
On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 12:57:01PM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote:
On 11/16/2016 08:14 AM, Jiri Bohac wrote:
Cape Verde -> Cabo Verde Czech Republic -> Czechia
A few quick Google searches suggest that the old names are still more common in English-language sources, so let's just add the new names in commentary for now. We can revisit this if usage changes. In the meantime you might be amused by:
Tait R. 'Nobody calls it Czechia': Czech Republic's new name fails to catch on. The Guardian. 2016-10-25. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/nobody-calls-it-czechia-czech-...
... and that was precisely my motivation for submitting the patch. If people don't see the short name around, it will not "catch on". So I grepped my /usr/share for the cumbersome long name and here comes zoneinfo :)
"Britain" appears to be considerably more popular in English.
Sure - in conversations. But I would argue that someone looking for an entry on a list would first look under "Uni...." and "Grea..." and only then discover "Britain".
Proposed patch attached. I hope I got the accents right in your name....
Well, whatever. My main goal was the "Czechia" entry ;) The accents are fine. Thanks anyway. -- Jiri Bohac <jbohac@suse.cz> SUSE Labs, SUSE CZ
On 2016-11-16 13:57, Paul Eggert wrote:
On 11/16/2016 08:14 AM, Jiri Bohac wrote:
I would also change "Britain" to "United Kingdom", "Britain" appears to be considerably more popular in English.
Google shows 149M hits for "Great Britain", 367M for "Britain", 1G for "United Kingdom", and 4G for "UK". Are you limiting your results to a certain locale or time period? Results for the past year alone have similar relative frequencies, using Advanced Search for the word or phrase and English language, both over the last year and unlimited. "United Kingdom" and "UK" are uncontentious, and closest to the correct long phrases, which are contentious when not qualified at length. Britain is a colloquial term similar to using America or the States (and all three are contentious words) to refer to the USA. Great Britain is now considered a geographical term for the main island, excluding Northern Ireland and all the other islands considered part of the United Kingdom, and a contentious phrase when used for the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_GB#Calls_for_renaming Who, What, Why: Why is it Team GB, not Team UK? http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37058920 "In fact, of the 29 athletes from Northern Ireland in Rio, the vast majority - 21 - have chosen to represent Team Ireland... Only eight are representing Team GB." https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/754999206578941952?ref_src=twsrc%5Et... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/team-gb-olympic-name... Team GB is greater than the sum of its parts: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/alicethomson/article3501033... "Teyrnas Unedig Prydain Fawr a Gogledd Iwerddon" shortened to "Teyrnas Unedig" or "Y Deyrnas Unedig" abbreviated "DU", or "Rìoghachd Aonaichte Bhreatainn is Èireann a Tuath" shortened to "Rìoghachd Aonaichte" are also now legal names for the UK, used by the government, with only 10.6k, 13.5k, 873k(!), 3.9k, 66.4k hits respectively, across all languages. ;^> -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
On 11/16/2016 05:39 PM, Brian Inglis wrote:
Google shows 149M hits for "Great Britain", 367M for "Britain", 1G for "United Kingdom", and 4G for "UK". Are you limiting your results to a certain locale or time period?
No, I used Google News, which at my location has about 7M hits for "United Kingdom" and 29M hits for "Britain". For common terms like this I often find Google News to be more useful. I didn't look at the global search results for this term. For what it's worth I subscribe to The Economist, and its section on the country is called "Britain". The Guardian's style guide for "United Kingdom" says "no need to write in full: say Britain or the UK", and for "Britain" it says "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which is news to me; I wonder what's "official" about it? http://www.economist.com/sections/britain https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-b https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-u
Paul Eggert said:
The Guardian's style guide for "United Kingdom" says "no need to write in full: say Britain or the UK", and for "Britain" it says "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which is news to me; I wonder what's "official" about it?
Nothing. This is the Grauniad, so-known because of its inability to get details right. -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
On 11/16/2016 08:26 PM, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
The Guardian's style guide for "United
Kingdom" says "no need to write in full: say Britain or the UK", and for "Britain" it says "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which is news to me; I wonder what's "official" about it? Nothing.
I tend to agree. It's curious, though. I looked into it, and all I found were other people quoting the Guardian's style guide. I even found it quoted in the book "British Politics: A Very Short Introduction" (2nd ed., Oxford University Press, 2013) by Tony Wright, an authority on the subject. After the quotation he merely notes "this probably takes us just about as far as we can usefully go on this front" which is an odd thing to say about a statement that does not seem to be supported by any evidence. I was amused to learn during my reading that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was formed in 1922. So officially, the US is older than the UK! Who would have thought it?
On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
I was amused to learn during my reading that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was formed in 1922. So officially, the US is older than the UK! Who would have thought it?
Older than the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and, if the Wikipedia article on the UK is to be believed, older than the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland as well (the Kingdom of Great Britain was merged with the Kingdom of Ireland in 1800).
On 2016-11-17 09:22, Paul Eggert wrote:
On 11/16/2016 08:26 PM, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
The Guardian's style guide for "United Kingdom" says "no need to write in full: say Britain or the UK", and for "Britain" it says "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" which is news to me; I wonder what's "official" about it? Nothing. I tend to agree. It's curious, though. I looked into it, and all I found were other people quoting the Guardian's style guide. I even found it quoted in the book "British Politics: A Very Short Introduction" (2nd ed., Oxford University Press, 2013) by Tony Wright, an authority on the subject. After the quotation he merely notes "this probably takes us just about as far as we can usefully go on this front" which is an odd thing to say about a statement that does not seem to be supported by any evidence.
I was amused to learn during my reading that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was formed in 1922. So officially, the US is older than the UK! Who would have thought it?
That only inserted the Northern qualification into the style, as the United Kingdom was originally created (still later than the USA) by the 1801 Acts of Union and styled the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 1707 Acts of Union referred to it as the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and United Kingdom, but was styled Kingdom of Great Britain, or Great Britain officially. In his 1604 Proclamation of the Union James VI/I styled himself King of Great Britain, France and Ireland by royal prerogative, as in the 1603 Union of the Crowns the English parliament would agree only to the style King of England, Scotland, France, and Ireland, which was the official term used until the Civil War. P.S. My mother's family apparently emigrated suddenly from NI to Scotland sometime in the early 20s, possibly due to legal or sectarian troubles, but those who knew why took the reason to their graves, leaving younger members with an interest in the history of the period. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I would also change "Britain" to "United Kingdom", "Britain" appears to be considerably more popular in English.
Not so. It's often used colloquially within Great Britain, but it is politically contentious. It's like using "Holland" for "The Netherlands" or "Maine" when you mean "New England".
Great Britain is now considered a geographical term for the main island,
Not just "now". For a while after the Act of Union the "official" terms were "North Britain" and "South Britain" (rather than "Scotland" and "England") to emphasise the union. [See, for example, the North British Railway.] -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
On 2016-11-16 21:30, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
I would also change "Britain" to "United Kingdom",
The UK government agrees - Country names: The Permanent Committee on Geographical Names for British official use: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/52... FCO current list of approved British English-language names for countries and territories: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/54...
"Britain" appears to be considerably more popular in English.
Not so. It's often used colloquially within Great Britain, but it is politically contentious. It's like using "Holland" for "The Netherlands" or "Maine" when you mean "New England".
Or using The Maritimes, Maritime provinces, Canadian Maritimes vs Atlantic Canada, Atlantic provinces instead of the other, or thinking either includes Quebec, which has an Atlantic maritime coast. Over the last decade, Britain seems to be used most commonly as a short form for the island of Great Britain, in contrast to the island of Ireland (another long name dispute settled only in 1985). Otherwise it seems to be used in England implying the whole of the UK, without stating the regions actually involved, or by Unionists. A breakdown of its use by region in the UK would be enlightening. I like the Wiki Venn diagram (see legend for distinctions): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Euler_diagram_15.svg
Great Britain is now considered a geographical term for the main island,
Not just "now". For a while after the Act of Union the "official" terms were "North Britain" and "South Britain" (rather than "Scotland" and "England") to emphasise the union. [See, for example, the North British Railway.]
A century earlier, by James VI/I, referring to the Union flag to be flown on ships http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/; still used of ports during the reign of George II, referring to import/export subsidies and tariffs administered in Edinburgh and London. Online references indicate the terms were used mainly in or of Scotland in the 17th and 18th centuries, especially by those who were Unionists. Psst: "England and Wales" - don't want beaten to death by daffodils! ;^> -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
On 17/11/16 01:39, Brian Inglis wrote:
On 2016-11-16 13:57, Paul Eggert wrote:
On 11/16/2016 08:14 AM, Jiri Bohac wrote:
I would also change "Britain" to "United Kingdom", "Britain" appears to be considerably more popular in English.
I'm British, I live in England and speak English. I'm a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island (that's what it says on my passport). England is a part of Great Britain which in turn is part of the British Isles. The British Isles includes the Republic of Ireland which is a different country. The certificate for "bbc.co.uk" has "C=GB" for the country code. When I fill out forms that want my nationality and country of residence I tend to vary my answers. Should I put "English" or "British" as my nationality? Am I resident in England, GB or UK (there's no way "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island" is going to fit in the box). The last few times I've done this I've put "UK" for both because at least its unambiguous and broadly matches the passport I've just copied the number from. Colloquially, "Britain" generally refers to the main island but probably includes the Isle of Wight and Anglesey (although the latter is connected by a bridge now). "The UK" refers to all to all of the British Isles including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man but excluding the Republic of Ireland. When I'm filling in web forms that want a country from a list box I usually whizz straight down to the end and look for United Kingdom. When that doesn't work I go back up to a little before the middle and search out Great Britain. Officially and formally I live in the UK, I'm from the UK and I hold a UK passport. It's not helped by the fact that the ISO country code is "GB" and the top-level domain is "UK", but unless I'm referring to the Olympics, a certificate or the sticker on my car, I don't use GB. Are you confused yet? It really doesn't matter what you call the place: we're quite used to reading "GB" and "United Kingdom" or "[Great] Britain". Unless there's a compelling reason to change iso3166.tab I'd leave it as it is, ie "GB Britain (UK)". Sticking a "Great" in there looks anachronistic to me and changing "Britain" to "United Kingdom" looks weird (I don't know why, it just does). jch
Google shows 149M hits for "Great Britain", 367M for "Britain", 1G for "United Kingdom", and 4G for "UK". Are you limiting your results to a certain locale or time period? Results for the past year alone have similar relative frequencies, using Advanced Search for the word or phrase and English language, both over the last year and unlimited.
"United Kingdom" and "UK" are uncontentious, and closest to the correct long phrases, which are contentious when not qualified at length.
Britain is a colloquial term similar to using America or the States (and all three are contentious words) to refer to the USA. Great Britain is now considered a geographical term for the main island, excluding Northern Ireland and all the other islands considered part of the United Kingdom, and a contentious phrase when used for the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_GB#Calls_for_renaming Who, What, Why: Why is it Team GB, not Team UK? http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37058920 "In fact, of the 29 athletes from Northern Ireland in Rio, the vast majority - 21 - have chosen to represent Team Ireland... Only eight are representing Team GB." https://twitter.com/GoogleTrends/status/754999206578941952?ref_src=twsrc%5Et...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/team-gb-olympic-name...
Team GB is greater than the sum of its parts: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/alicethomson/article3501033...
"Teyrnas Unedig Prydain Fawr a Gogledd Iwerddon" shortened to "Teyrnas Unedig" or "Y Deyrnas Unedig" abbreviated "DU", or "Rìoghachd Aonaichte Bhreatainn is Èireann a Tuath" shortened to "Rìoghachd Aonaichte" are also now legal names for the UK, used by the government, with only 10.6k, 13.5k, 873k(!), 3.9k, 66.4k hits respectively, across all languages. ;^>
participants (6)
-
Brian Inglis -
Clive D.W. Feather -
Guy Harris -
Jiri Bohac -
John Haxby -
Paul Eggert