Re: proposed time zone package changes (Russia, Curacao)
In respect to the the dissolution of AN (Netherlands Antilles), you are replacing its record with CW Curacao; but shouldn't a record also be added for the other country formed by the dissolution, namely Sint-Maarten (SX)?
Below are revised changes to get in sync with the current ISO3166 data; these changes are relative to the stuff on the ftp site. --ado diff -r old/iso3166.tab new/iso3166.tab 2c2 < # @(#)iso3166.tab 8.6 ---
# @(#)iso3166.tab 8.9 23a24,27 # From Arthur David Olson (2011-06-15): # Resynchronized today with the ISO3116 site # (deleting AN and adding BQ, CW, and SX). # 33d36 < AN Netherlands Antilles 55a59 BQ Bonaire Sint Eustatius & Saba 77a82 CW Curacao 233a239 SX Sint Maarten diff -r old/southamerica new/southamerica 2c2 < # @(#)southamerica 8.49
# @(#)southamerica 8.50 1278a1279,1286 # From Arthur David Olson (2011-06-15): # At least for now, use links for places with new iso3166 codes. # The name "Lower Prince's Quarter" is both longer than fourteen charaters # and contains an apostrophe; use "Lower_Princes" below.
Link America/Curacao America/Lower_Princes # Sint Maarten Link America/Curacao America/Kralendijk # Bonaire, Sint Estatius and Saba
diff -r old/zone.tab new/zone.tab 2c2 < # @(#)zone.tab 8.43 ---
# @(#)zone.tab 8.45 35d34 < AN +1211-06900 America/Curacao 89a89 BQ +120903-0681636 America/Kralendijk 157a158 CW +1211-06900 America/Curacao 364a366 SX +180305-0630250 America/Lower_Princes
Hi, is it logical to have these new zones named with cities (which are not that big and known, or unique), and Antilles earlier named with islands (/Aruba, /Curacao, /Dominica, /Martinique etc)? I would suggest zones: BQ America/Bonaire CW America/Curacao SX America/Sint_Maarten Or, if Sint Maarten, an island of two countries, needs a city, I would suggest SX America/Philipsburg ..because the settlements like Lower Prince's Quarter hardly qualify as a city as itself, and Philipsburg at least has a port, commercial centre of the island, and is the capital city. Other settlements are like suburbs of it. Number of residents sleeping within it does not matter as all the settlements are within few hundred meters to few km from it. Kind of we do not have America/Brooklyn (Brooklyn is the most populous of New York City's five boroughs). Regards, Jaakko On Wed, 15 Jun 2011, Arthur David Olson wrote:
In respect to the the dissolution of AN (Netherlands Antilles), you are replacing its record with CW Curacao; but shouldn't a record also be added for the other country formed by the dissolution, namely Sint-Maarten (SX)?
Below are revised changes to get in sync with the current ISO3166 data; these changes are relative to the stuff on the ftp site.
--ado
diff -r old/iso3166.tab new/iso3166.tab 2c2 < # @(#)iso3166.tab 8.6 ---
# @(#)iso3166.tab 8.9 23a24,27 # From Arthur David Olson (2011-06-15): # Resynchronized today with the ISO3116 site # (deleting AN and adding BQ, CW, and SX). # 33d36 < AN Netherlands Antilles 55a59 BQ Bonaire Sint Eustatius & Saba 77a82 CW Curacao 233a239 SX Sint Maarten diff -r old/southamerica new/southamerica 2c2 < # @(#)southamerica 8.49
# @(#)southamerica 8.50 1278a1279,1286 # From Arthur David Olson (2011-06-15): # At least for now, use links for places with new iso3166 codes. # The name "Lower Prince's Quarter" is both longer than fourteen charaters # and contains an apostrophe; use "Lower_Princes" below.
Link America/Curacao America/Lower_Princes # Sint Maarten Link America/Curacao America/Kralendijk # Bonaire, Sint Estatius and Saba
diff -r old/zone.tab new/zone.tab 2c2 < # @(#)zone.tab 8.43 ---
# @(#)zone.tab 8.45 35d34 < AN +1211-06900 America/Curacao 89a89 BQ +120903-0681636 America/Kralendijk 157a158 CW +1211-06900 America/Curacao 364a366 SX +180305-0630250 America/Lower_Princes
-- Foreca Ltd Jaakko.Hyvatti@foreca.com Tammasaarenkatu 5, FI-00180 Helsinki, Finland http://www.foreca.com
On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:25 PM, Jaakko Hyvätti wrote:
Hi, is it logical to have these new zones named with cities (which are not that big and known, or unique), and Antilles earlier named with islands (/Aruba, /Curacao, /Dominica, /Martinique etc)? I would suggest zones:
BQ America/Bonaire CW America/Curacao SX America/Sint_Maarten
Or, if Sint Maarten, an island of two countries, needs a city, I would suggest
SX America/Philipsburg
"Sint_Maarten" works fine even so, because the other half is named Saint_Martin (and isn't a country, besides). paul
While that is reasonable, I know that it makes it (surprisingly) difficult for translators when most of what they are translating are cities, and then suddenly a country pops up. And many of the existing identifiers also would be much more recognizable if they were countries. Moreover, the country information is always available in the zones file anyway. So it is simpler and more predictable if it is cities wherever possible. Mark *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 03:52, Paul Koning <paul_koning@dell.com> wrote:
On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:25 PM, Jaakko Hyvätti wrote:
Hi, is it logical to have these new zones named with cities (which are
not that big and known, or unique), and Antilles earlier named with islands (/Aruba, /Curacao, /Dominica, /Martinique etc)? I would suggest zones:
BQ America/Bonaire CW America/Curacao SX America/Sint_Maarten
Or, if Sint Maarten, an island of two countries, needs a city, I would
suggest
SX America/Philipsburg
"Sint_Maarten" works fine even so, because the other half is named Saint_Martin (and isn't a country, besides).
paul
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 19:28, Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com> wrote:
While that is reasonable, I know that it makes it (surprisingly) difficult for translators when most of what they are translating are cities, and then suddenly a country pops up. And many of the existing identifiers also would be much more recognizable if they were countries. Moreover, the country information is always available in the zones file anyway. So it is simpler and more predictable if it is cities wherever possible.
Also, isn't the rationale that countries tend to come and go, while cities tend to stay around (and tend to keep their name more consistently than countries do)? Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
On Thu, 16 Jun 2011, Philip Newton wrote:
Also, isn't the rationale that countries tend to come and go, while cities tend to stay around (and tend to keep their name more consistently than countries do)?
I would think islands are like cities in this respect, they stay while countries come and like now. I guess that's why looks likes all the Antilles zones have been named with islands. -- Foreca Ltd Jaakko.Hyvatti@foreca.com Tammasaarenkatu 5, FI-00180 Helsinki, Finland http://www.foreca.com
On 06/16/11 12:24, Jaakko Hyvätti wrote:
I would think islands are like cities in this respect, they stay while countries come and like now. I guess that's why looks likes all the Antilles zones have been named with islands.
Yes, that's correct. The idea was to use a small, compact location, not necessarily a city (though cities are the most common). In practice, small islands are just as unlikely to split into multiple time zones as cities are.
On Jun 16, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Philip Newton wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 19:28, Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com> wrote:
While that is reasonable, I know that it makes it (surprisingly) difficult for translators when most of what they are translating are cities, and then suddenly a country pops up. And many of the existing identifiers also would be much more recognizable if they were countries. Moreover, the country information is always available in the zones file anyway. So it is simpler and more predictable if it is cities wherever possible.
Also, isn't the rationale that countries tend to come and go, while cities tend to stay around (and tend to keep their name more consistently than countries do)?
I'm not sure that is true. In any case, it's not a compelling argument, because timezone rules are political constructs. So they are associated with countries, not cities (to the extent that cities != countries). paul
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 22:03, Paul Koning <paul_koning@dell.com> wrote:
timezone rules are political constructs. So they are associated with countries, not cities (to the extent that cities != countries).
They are? What is the timezone associated with the United States? Timezones are associated with (politico-)geographical regions, which may be smaller than a country. (In theory, I suppose they could also be bigger than a country, but that sort of mutual agreement is not necessarily stable.) Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:07 AM, Philip Newton wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 22:03, Paul Koning <paul_koning@dell.com> wrote:
timezone rules are political constructs. So they are associated with countries, not cities (to the extent that cities != countries).
They are? What is the timezone associated with the United States?
I didn't say there is just one.
Timezones are associated with (politico-)geographical regions, which may be smaller than a country. (In theory, I suppose they could also be bigger than a country, but that sort of mutual agreement is not necessarily stable.)
That's my point. Countries, or their subdivisions, are political constructs. The claim was made that cities were preferred for zone names precisely because they are *not* political constructs, and I was pointing out that this may be true but would actually be an argument against city names. paul
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:11:27 -0400 From: Paul Koning <paul_koning@Dell.com> Message-ID: <97E1DB35-DB6F-4E61-AD2E-39C0664554F2@dell.com> | That's my point. Countries, or their subdivisions, are political | constructs. The claim was made that cities were preferred for zone | names precisely because they are *not* political constructs, and I was | pointing out that this may be true but would actually be an argument | against city names. No, it isn't. Certainly timezones are political, and consequently we bound all timezones by (at worst) their enclosing country (and in some cases state or province). But for naming them, a name that relates to something more stable than countries is good, and for that (especially given that we sometimes need multiple zones per country, so country names themselves are certainly not adequate) city names serve well. While it (kind of) happens sometimes that a city spans timezones, things like that are very very rare just because of the human inconvenience such a thing causes. kre
participants (7)
-
Arthur David Olson -
Jaakko Hyvätti -
Mark Davis ☕ -
Paul Eggert -
Paul Koning -
Philip Newton -
Robert Elz