On 2023-11-10 01:47, Dmytro Shynkarenko via tz wrote:
I'm reaching out on behalf of our team at Tutorpeers (Tutorpeers.com)
I'm reaching out to address a significant concern related to the naming of Ukraine's capital in time zone databases. At present, there are two spellings in use: "Kiev" and "Kyiv." The latter, "Kyiv," is the correct Ukrainian spelling and pronunciation, which honors the country's sovereignty and the preferences of its people.
The use of "Kiev," which is derived from the Russian language, has become increasingly problematic, especially considering Russia's ongoing aggression against Ukraine. This issue hits close to home for me, not only because of my Ukrainian roots but also due to the feedback we've received from our Ukrainian user base. Numerous customers have reached out to us, expressing discomfort and disapproval of the "Kiev" spelling, given the current circumstances.
Our platform has taken a clear stance on this issue, and we urge IANA to consider the implications of language and to update its time zone databases accordingly. By standardizing the "Kyiv" spelling, we can collectively show support for the Ukrainian community and respect their cultural and national identity.
After speaking to your colleague Candice Montoya I was pleased to learn that the spelling change to "Europe/Kyiv" has already been implemented in the Time Zone Database as of August 2022. This update is much appreciated and reflects a positive and respectful acknowledgment of the correct naming convention.
However, I've noticed that the previous spelling, "Kiev" still appears in some instances. Please confirm if this is intended for backward compatibility with existing systems. And if so, is there a planned timeline for its eventual deprecation in favor of the updated "Kyiv" spelling?
Understanding the strategy for phasing out the old spelling would be incredibly helpful for our team and user community as we navigate these changes and ensure we provide the most current and accurate information.
The tz project provides mechanism, but does not set policy, which is decided by each downstream system and software package, which includes their own selection from this *public domain* software and data. That includes almost every single OS, DB, programming language, communication, or date/time using software, from almost every vendor and organization, on almost every system, on almost every device, on the planet. Most software vendors and organizations favour consistency, familiarity, and stability for their users, which includes not breaking whatever they currently have running on their systems, whether it is a super-computer cluster, server, desktop, laptop, phone, watch, or credit card sized computer. There are also forks of this project data, for which that is paramount, skipping changes made over the years, as do some downstream distributors of the software and data, which is freely available to all to download over the internet. Each OS distribution, edition, and flavour of each OS and software package using the tz data may set different policies depending on their goals. It is likely that the backward compatibility link or zone for Kiev will remain on many systems and in much software for the conceivable future, and will never disappear from systems and software which prize backward compatibility. It is also likely that many Ukrainian organizations will retain the well known English spelling for a long time, for the practical reason that they may become inaccessible or invisible if they change it, as most English speakers and businesses have no awareness of, desire, or need to comply with Ukrainian wishes regarding transliteration, as they have a perfectly good spelling they have been using for centuries. See for example the global public suffix list, and the Ukrainian CC TLD https://cctld.ua/ -> https://www.hostmaster.ua/ where https://www.hostmaster.ua/news/?stat202309 shows kyiv.ua gaining popularity on par with kiev.ua, but the CC TLD and registrars still support domains and registration under kiev.ua, and many with other legacy spellings, see also policy links from 2LD web page https://www.hostmaster.ua/2ld/ which are owned by registrars for which these are business assets, some worth millions of ₴, also some domains registered under these 2LD names are also likely worth ₴ millions, unlikely to be changed or thrown away for the exercise of eliminating old spellings to favour newer Ukrainian transliterations. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry [Most English speakers similarly do not care what e.g. Italians and other nationalities call their countries, regions, or cities, despite substantial tourism: they will continue to use the English names for those locations given centuries ago for centuries into the future.]