Earlier today, Robert Elz wrote:
This would be nice, except that EST/EST is correct.
By what definition? There is plenty of evidence to indicate that AEST/AEDT is in common use and even the quoted (not by me) message from the National Standards Commission suggests that AEST/AEDT is not only valid, but correct.
It uses daulight savings only in a few headings, etc - the actual content of the act (had you bothered to quote that) uses and defines "New South Wales Summer Time".
"Bothered"? The references to various sections of the Act plus a URL pointing to the Act in its entirety didn't make the original message long enough? If one was to be as literal as you and John would prefer, then the time zone abbreviations would probably be "NSWST/NSWST" for both standard time and summer time (see part 1, section 2 of the Act); the fact that *nobody* uses those abbreviations in practice has to call into question the whole justification for using "EST/EST". Just to be clear, here is the relevant part of the definitions in the Act: "In this Act: [...] New South Wales standard time means standard time as fixed by section 3. New South Wales summer time means summer time as fixed by section 7." No mention at all of "eastern" anything.
The Victorian Act (when I looked this up way back when this issue was first relevant) defines Eastern Summer Time (I think the Vic parliament felt it had a mandate to legislate for all of Eastern Australia... or perhaps hoped that it would at least be uniform.)
How does this relate to the abbreviations used for "Australia/Sydney" in the time zone database? ;-)
I haven't checked it recently and don't have a URL for the Vic act, but I expect it is still pretty similar.
I am only guessing that this is still correct given that it also shows up on a search of the Victorian Government's Web sites: "Summer Time Act 1972" http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol%5fact/sta1972147/ Herein the definitions are of "standard time" and "summer time", not "eastern" anything; again, if taken literally then the abbreviations for Victoria would be simply "ST/ST". Honestly, Robert, the legislation is not all that useful in determining time zone names or abbreviations (for the purposes of the tz database anyway) - all the laws do is give authority to the fact that those States will observe daylight savings time during summer, that's all. In my own defence at quoting from the NSW Act, I was arguing against the (only perceived?) suggestion that the term "daylight saving" is never used in Australia, that's all. Even a search for "Eastern Standard Time" on the Victorian Government's Web site (www.vic.gov.au) turns up references to "AEST" and "Australian Eastern Standard Time" (and yes, other variations for standard and summer time too). Heck, searching AustLII's and SCALEplus' databases (and no, I'm not going to bother quoting anything this time) shows appearances in legal proceedings of the following phrases/abbreviations in relation to time: - "AEST" in the Federal Court of Australia and the Migration Review Tribunal of Australia; - "AEDT" in the Supreme Court of New South Wales; - "Australian Eastern Standard Time" in the Federal Court of Australia and the Supreme Court of Victoria; and, - "Australian Eastern Daylight Saving Time" in the Commonwealth Administrative Appeals Tribunal and the Federal Court of Australia{*}. {*} Interestingly, here both the full name and a different abbreviation are given; the case is BHP Steel (AIS) Pty Ltd v Construction, Forestry, Mining & Energy Union [2000] FCA 1853 (15 December 2000), where Justice Kiefel wrote (presumably obiter dictum): Australian Eastern Daylight Saving Time ("AEDST") Further, some legislation *relies* on these abbreviations and phrases; for example, the Commonwealth Corporations (Unlisted Property Trusts) Amendment Act 1991 No. 200 of 1991, section 10: "'commencement' means 4.50 p.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time on 23 July" It's good enough for the courts and legislation... On the issue of whether or not the Commonwealth Government has the power to legislate time zones as a measure of commerce, clearly the NSC includes time as a measure of commerce and the Commonwealth has considered time zones within its power (which is why it tried to legislate to that effect in 1991 - see Hansard). As for "summer time" in the State legislation, this is clearly a definition for the legal purposes of interpreting the rest of the relevant Acts, not for defining common use beyond a local context (otherwise, how do you account for the Corporations Act amendment that refers to "Australian Eastern Standard Time"?). Some interesting papers on the topic of time in Australia (which at least once refer to "Eastern Standard Time") is available from the NSC: "The Australian National Time System" http://www.nsc.gov.au/PDF_Word/Info/L08.pdf "Daylight Saving" http://www.nsc.gov.au/PDF_Word/Info/L27.pdf
You will get me to accept that at exactly the same time as you get the UTS-0500 timezone name changed to "United States Eastern Standard Time" (and abbreviated as USEST).
I don't have any information on (or care about) that time zone. :-)
| Great! To get this bug fixed convince the authorities to change the laws | and regulations of the country this effects. glibc behaves correctly."
The bug is in attempting to trun a timezone string into a numeric offset - that's simply crazy.
I won't disagree with you on that point (and in case you're assuming that this is what I'm trying to do, you're wrong).
| This is clearly based on Mr Mackin's comment in the time zone database, and | as I have demonstrated is wrong (in terms of the legislation and government | use).
You attempted to, but you failed, as it is not wrong.
Given the evidence available that supports changing the time zone abbreviations from EST/EST to AEST/AEDT, by what authority do you claim to be correct? I've gone to great lengths to demonstrate that this is more than just my "personal preference" but is also in widespread (and legitimate) use; in response, you simply retort "it is wrong" and provide no evidence for this assertion. Come on, Robert - "knows and responds to everything" shouldn't be taken literally y'know... dave