Earlier today, Robert Elz wrote:
| > This would be nice, except that EST/EST is correct. | By what definition?
Just read the acts - they define summer time.
Those same Acts say absolutely nothing that supports the use of the "E"; if one were to remain true to the Acts, then the tz database is wrong in any case. The fact that the tz database uses the "E" prefix at all demonstrates that "common use" should also play a part in determining the database's contents. Let's try and summarise your position (please correct me if I have misunderstood): - You argue that the names used in relevant legislation are the only valid source for the Australian time zones, and therefore "summer time" is correct whilst "daylight( saving(s|)) time" is incorrect. For this reason, both normal and DST abbreviations should be identical. - You further argue that "EST" is correct because some no-longer valid Victorian legislation used the term "Eastern Standard Time". - Finally, you argue that until the United States, Canada and possibly Mexico change "EST" to include a country-specific prefix, then "EST" should remain in use for Australia; and besides which, there is no major revolt amongst users so it doesn't hurt to leave the abbreviations as they are. In response, my position is this: - Relying entirely on the legislation of the States and territories that observe DST (namely, ACT, NSW, VIC, SA and TAS) there is no definition of time involving the words "east", "eastern" or anything of similar meaning; references can be found on AustLII or SCALEplus: ACT: STANDARD TIME AND SUMMER TIME ACT 1972 NSW: STANDARD TIME ACT 1987 VIC: SUMMER TIME ACT 1972 SA: DAYLIGHT SAVING ACT, 1971 TAS: DAYLIGHT SAVING ACT 1968 Therefore, if relying entirely on the legislation then the tz database contains incorrect time zone names and abbreviations for the affected Australian time zones (probably all of them). - The verbatim time references (and the obvious abbreviations thereof) taken from the legislation are not widely used (if at all), as the legislation is State/territory-specific whilst most references to time that include a time zone are of a national nature. - Given that the tz database is already out-of-sync with the legislation and the legislation does not match "common use", it is only reasonable to adopt the names and abbreviations from "common use" for the tz database. - The courts have scope to interpret the meanings of time zone names or abbreviations that are not otherwise explicitly defined in legislation, therefore citing a lack of explicit legislative definition is insufficient justification for arguing that "summer time" is correct whilst "daylight( saving(s|)) time" is incorrect (cf. Latimer, P., 1994, "Australian Business Law", 13th ed - "Interpretation of Statutes"). - In common use, the terms "daylight( saving(s|)) time" are just as widespread (more so in some cases) as the term "summer time"; this includes government use. - "AEST" and "AEDT" are two of the many time zone abbreviations used by government and industry when referring to UTC+10 and UTC+11 within Australia; their use is not limited to a specific group. Examples have been provided for independent verification/refutation. - Similarly, "Australian Eastern Standard Time" and "Australian Eastern Daylight Savings Time" are phrases in widespread use (particularly the first phrase). Examples have been provided for independent verification/refutation. - There is no national standard nor universal usage of time zone names or abbreviations across Australia due to the historical reasons previously presented; therefore, it should be acceptable to, after some research, adopt what appears to be "common use". - The closest agency Australia has to a national measurement standards body is the National Standards Commission, which has indicated support for the use of "AEST" and "AEDT". Whilst Robert argues that it currently has no legislative power to decide or advise on such matters, it must be remembered that the use of EST/EST has no basis in current legislation either. - The world will not end without changing the time zone abbreviations; however, it will not end if they *are* changed. Given that some groups are starting to rely on the tz database as authoritative (wrong though that may be), it is only reasonable to reconsider whether or not EST/EST is still valid for Australian eastern time zones. - Changing zone names or abbreviations for any other country should not be a prerequisite for reconsidering Australian zone names or abbreviations. So, what happens now? It seems clear that Robert and I cannot agree and at last count it was at least two in favour of changing EST/EST to AEST/AEDT and definitely two against. Not that any further "common use" examples should really be necessary, but: - The other day in "The Daily Telegraph" (print media, newspaper) the stages for Mir's descent were noted at times clearly marked, "AEST". - On Sunday during a motorcar television broadcast, a Channel Ten announcer mentioned the time of a future broadcast being at "Australian Eastern Standard Time" (spoken in full). - Given that EST/EST for use in all Australian jurisdictions was based on Victorian legislation (the Victorian Government cannot legislate outside the State of Victoria), an exact string match of the VIC Government's Web sites for the following strings turns up: "Australian Eastern Summer Time" - 5 hits, all at the Melbourne Planetarium "Eastern Summer Time" - the same 5 hits as with "Australian" included "Australian Eastern Daylight" - 11 hits, all at the Melbourne Planetarium - 4 hits using "Australian Eastern Daylight Time" - 7 hits using "Australian Eastern Daylight Savings Time" "Eastern Daylight" - 14 hits - the same 11 hits as with "Australian" included - 1 hit from the Planetarium that has both "Australian Eastern Summer Time" and "Aust. Eastern Daylight Savings Time" on the same page - 2 hits on Victoria Government Gazettes, referring to "Eastern Daylight Savings Time" "AEST" - 59 hits (only the first results page of which was checked) - many hits from the Melbourne Planetarium again - one hit defining "AEST: Australian Eastern Standard Time" - one hit defining "AEST UTC + 10" "AEDT" - in all fairness, zero hits within the Victorian Government Web sites (see previous references for its use elsewhere) Robert asserts that the use of "Australian Eastern Standard Time" in the Commonwealth Corporations Act refers to "standard time" and that it "unambiguously [specifies] a particular time (and date)"; this is incorrect, as the Corporations Act is a *Commonwealth* (not State) Act and there is no Commonwealth definition of "standard time", thereby leaving this an ambiguous reference to each State/territory's own definition of "standard time". Clearly, for a national law, this is sheer lunacy (given that Australia spreads over at least three time zones, leading to multiple interpretations of "standard time"); anyone can reasonably determine that the legislators intended UTC+10 and that is precisely what the High Court would find under their powers for interpretation of legislation (which go beyond what is explicitly "defined" in the Acts).
Absolutely nothing (other than the fact that some people use it, and are incorrect in doing so)... It is quite clearly summer time, not daylight time
Only according to your own admitted assumptions, not in any authoritative sense. If it is acceptable to pervert the definitions in the legislation to become EST/EST, then it is equally acceptable to follow common practice and update these abbreviations to AEST/AEDT. Cheers.. dave