August 2012 - lac-discuss-es

Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by asoto＠ibero-americano.org Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org Pienso Lo Mismo Carlton, y ESO ES MUY BUENO. Solo Que es Nuestra Regin del heno Quienes no entienden lo, El disentir es insultar párrafo ELLOS. Saludos cordiales Alberto Soto ----- Mensaje original ----- De: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] En Nombre de carlton.samuels @ gmail.com El Enviado: mircoles, 15 de Agosto de 2012 11:41 am Para: lac-discuss-es(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP [[- Texto traducido (en -> es) -]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com Fray Carlos: Los Hombres razonables Siempre Se Puede ESTAR en desacuerdo y SEGUIR siendo Agradable. No ESTAMOS de acuerdo en this TEMA. De Todos Modos, todava disfruto de mi Respeto y Afecto. Mejor, - Carlton ============================== Carlton Samuels A Mvil: 876-818-1799 * Estrategia, Planificacin, Gobierno, Evaluaciny * Plazos ============================= El mar, 14 de Agosto de 2012, las 9:25 de la mañana, Carlos Dionisio Aguirre < > carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com escribió: > My Dear Bro: On this opportunity I can`t share with you. I insist in my > position* LACRALO is: independent and soverign*. As you said in your > (wrong,for me ) interpretation, LACRALO can give rules itself and changes > the same, so it shows it completely independent, dont have to respond to > anybody. This sentence is clear: *"This Memorandum of understanding > ("MOU")defines an agreement between the Signing Organizations and the > Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its intent is to > establish, and define activities to be carried out by, the Latin America & > Caribbean Regional At-Large Large Organization, and supported by ICANN."* > *ICANN is another organization* as showed the paragraph before. For that > reason we have a *MoU, because there are two organizations* related by > this kind of contract or agreement. > ICANN is based on the California Law, thats true, but this only affect the > relationship with LACRALO, if LACRALO adopt some directive against this > legal body (CAlifornia law). if not, MoU between two different > remains alive in force. > *LACRALO is constituted by Organizations*, and the *government body is it > GA*, wich is *one delegate by each organization*. This is the explanation > of the *"Signing Organizations" *sentence*. * > Now LACRALO is supported by ICANN, according MoU, but this could change in > the future, and *LACRALO* could follow being an *organization > and *the most important: this was the idea .* > *The idea from the begining was to have an independent organization in > LAC region composed by End User*s, that was the motivation of LACRALO. We > are not part of ICANN, wich could be the sense of that? > *ICANN and the multistackeholder model no need uniformity*. And to build > a diverse & democratic ecosystem ICANN need differents oppinion from > different groups of opinion. LACRALO is one of them, composed by End Users > organizations by LAC region. *ICANN need a LACRALO independent and > soverign*. > My personal opinion on that. > > A warm, big and strong hug to you. > > > > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former ALAC member by LACRALO > Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios > Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - > *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > ------------------------------ > From: carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:41:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > To: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > 2012/8/10 carlos dionisio aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> > > :rule that you mention doesnt apply in this case, because we have a > specific rule. Ón the othe side LACRALO is not part of ICÁNN we only have > a MOU signed, but we are independent of ICÁNN rules. > > Regards > > ================================ > My brother Carlos: > See the highlighted portion of your text, as translated. In this case, I > believe the interpretation is incorrect. > > Your interpretation that LACRALO is 'independent' of ICANN rules is widely > held in Latin America. Without a doubt, I believe it is responsible for > declarations such as 'LACRALO is sovereign'. > > Now, lawyers can and do disagree in interpretation of statute or > documents. Case law confirms this situation. Add to this and in this > context, the differences in legal histories and interpretative mechanisms > of so-called 'common law' countries as in the Caribbean versus 'civil law' > countries as predominant in Latin America. Here is a perfect example and > another such case. > > ICANN's premise is well defined in law. It exists as a 'public benefit' > corporation under the laws of the state of California. When it registered > as a legal entity, it filed its bye-laws with the State. Those bye-laws > filed and accepted by the State of California binds and empowers its > operations and actions. > > This means ICANN's actions are only legal and enforceable to the extent > they comply with its bye-laws. > > LACRALO's premise is defined by the MOU signed with ICANN. That MOU is > subject to the ICANN bye-laws; ICANN cannot make binding agreements that > are injurious to its bye-laws. > > This is the text that describes the "Purpose and Scope" of LACRALO in the > MOU signed with ICANN: > "This Memorandum of understanding ("MOU")defines an agreement between the > Signing Organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > Numbers. Its intent is to establish, and define activities to be carried > out by, the Latin America & Caribbean Regional At-Large Large > Organization, and supported by ICANN." > > Note the term *"Signing Organisations"*. > > Here's the definition of said 'Signing Organisations': "Organizations in > the Latin America & Caribbean region certified by the ALAC as At-Large > Structures that are signatories to this MOU.". > > It is the *signing organisations*, meaning the ALSes, that enjoy the legal > relationship with ICANN. In other words, LACRALO is purely a label for > ease of reference that means 'all of us ALSes, acting together'. > > The certification requirement for ALSes poses another hurdle. The power to > accept and certify ALSes is ceded to the ALAC by way of the ICANN > In other words, *LACRALO* does not and cannot exist absent an ICANN > bye-law mandated action of the ALAC. > > The MOU states clearly the joint commitments, *singly and severally*, of > the parties to it. > > The MOU, as signed, binds ICANN to six (6) commitments to the *LACRALO*. > > In turn, the ALSes labeled LACRALO, meaning all of us who signed the MOU, > binds us, *singly and severally*, to five (5) distinct actions along > with ICANN in pursuit of our joint commitments . > > The truth is there is a gulf of a difference between the general Latin > American and Caribbean understanding of the meaning of the word > in context. > > As far back as 2006, we have invited and had interventions from ICANN > legal staff to explain this. I am on the record repeatedly, attempting to > align the facts with the general understanding. My last time was at Costa > Rica. I was responding to the contents of a document filed with the > Secretariat and comments in the General Assembly. And for my troubles, I > was condemned as a liar in several places. The recordings and transcripts > are all available for those who would wish details. > > The records will show Cintra Sooknanan, a lawyer, has also pointed out the > misuse of the term. So too, Lance Hinds and Roosevelt King. > > From my reading of her writings and interventions, I believe Fatima > Cambronera well understands the differences. > > LACRALO is not and may not be 'sovereign'. Everything we might wish to do > in context of names and numbers policy advocacy, advice and development is > informed and limited by the signed MOU, which is itself subject to the > powers and scope granted by the ICANN bye-laws and the LACRALO Rules of > Procedure. > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, change its rules. The process to do so is > described in its Rules of Procedure. And even if there was a move to > the rules of procedure, you must follow the process as defined in the > rules. Lawyers and courts have a Latin term, 'ultra vires', to describe > actions contrary to established rules. > > Here's the compelling one. LACRALO cannot change ICANN bye-laws. And so > any rule change that undermines or rubbishes ICANN bye-laws would make > LACRALO a rogue and outside the parameters granted by the ICANN MOU. > > If this ever happens, any signatory to the MOU, meaning any ALS, has > standing and a duty of care to petition for grievance in this respect. And > ICANN is duty bound to respond and act as the MOU and its bye-law compels > it so to do. > > Best, > - Carlton > > ============================== > Carlton A Samuels > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > ============================= > > [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/f2ce06287d.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by carlton.samuels＠gmail.com Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com Fray Carlos: Los hombres razonables siempre se puede estar en desacuerdo y seguir siendo agradable. No estamos de acuerdo en este tema. De todos modos, todavía disfruto de mi respeto y afecto. Mejor, - Carlton ============================== Carlton Samuels A Móvil: 876-818-1799 * Estrategia, Planificación, Gobierno, Evaluación y plazos * ============================= El mar, 14 de agosto 2012 a las 9:25 AM, Carlos Dionisio Aguirre < > carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com escribió: > My Dear Bro: On this opportunity I can`t share with you. I insist in my > position* LACRALO is: independent and soverign*. As you said in your > (wrong,for me ) interpretation, LACRALO can give rules itself and changes > the same, so it shows it completely independent, dont have to respond to > anybody. This sentence is clear: *"This Memorandum of understanding > ("MOU")defines an agreement between the Signing Organizations and the > Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its intent is to > establish, and define activities to be carried out by, the Latin America & > Caribbean Regional At-Large Large Organization, and supported by ICANN."* > *ICANN is another organization* as showed the paragraph before. For that > reason we have a *MoU, because there are two organizations* related by > this kind of contract or agreement. > ICANN is based on the California Law, thats true, but this only affect the > relationship with LACRALO, if LACRALO adopt some directive against this > legal body (CAlifornia law). if not, MoU between two different organization > remains alive in force. > *LACRALO is constituted by Organizations*, and the *government body is it > GA*, wich is *one delegate by each organization*. This is the explanation > of the *"Signing Organizations" *sentence*. * > Now LACRALO is supported by ICANN, according MoU, but this could change in > the future, and *LACRALO* could follow being an *organization independent*, > and *the most important: this was the idea .* > *The idea from the begining was to have an independent organization in > LAC region composed by End User*s, that was the motivation of LACRALO. We > are not part of ICANN, wich could be the sense of that? > *ICANN and the multistackeholder model no need uniformity*. And to build > a diverse & democratic ecosystem ICANN need differents oppinion from > different groups of opinion. LACRALO is one of them, composed by End Users > organizations by LAC region. *ICANN need a LACRALO independent and > soverign*. > My personal opinion on that. > > A warm, big and strong hug to you. > > > > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former ALAC member by LACRALO > Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios > Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - > *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > ------------------------------ > From: carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:41:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > To: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > 2012/8/10 carlos dionisio aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> > > :rule that you mention doesnt apply in this case, because we have a > specific rule. Ón the othe side LACRALO is not part of ICÁNN we only have > a MOU signed, but we are independent of ICÁNN rules. > > Regards > > ================================ > My brother Carlos: > See the highlighted portion of your text, as translated. In this case, I > believe the interpretation is incorrect. > > Your interpretation that LACRALO is 'independent' of ICANN rules is widely > held in Latin America. Without a doubt, I believe it is responsible for > declarations such as 'LACRALO is sovereign'. > > Now, lawyers can and do disagree in interpretation of statute or > documents. Case law confirms this situation. Add to this and in this > context, the differences in legal histories and interpretative mechanisms > of so-called 'common law' countries as in the Caribbean versus 'civil law' > countries as predominant in Latin America. Here is a perfect example and > another such case. > > ICANN's premise is well defined in law. It exists as a 'public benefit' > corporation under the laws of the state of California. When it registered > as a legal entity, it filed its bye-laws with the State. Those bye-laws > filed and accepted by the State of California binds and empowers its > operations and actions. > > This means ICANN's actions are only legal and enforceable to the extent > they comply with its bye-laws. > > LACRALO's premise is defined by the MOU signed with ICANN. That MOU is > subject to the ICANN bye-laws; ICANN cannot make binding agreements that > are injurious to its bye-laws. > > This is the text that describes the "Purpose and Scope" of LACRALO in the > MOU signed with ICANN: > "This Memorandum of understanding ("MOU")defines an agreement between the > Signing Organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > Numbers. Its intent is to establish, and define activities to be carried > out by, the Latin America & Caribbean Regional At-Large Large > Organization, and supported by ICANN." > > Note the term *"Signing Organisations"*. > > Here's the definition of said 'Signing Organisations': "Organizations in > the Latin America & Caribbean region certified by the ALAC as At-Large > Structures that are signatories to this MOU.". > > It is the *signing organisations*, meaning the ALSes, that enjoy the legal > relationship with ICANN. In other words, LACRALO is purely a label for > ease of reference that means 'all of us ALSes, acting together'. > > The certification requirement for ALSes poses another hurdle. The power to > accept and certify ALSes is ceded to the ALAC by way of the ICANN bye-laws. > In other words, *LACRALO* does not and cannot exist absent an ICANN > bye-law mandated action of the ALAC. > > The MOU states clearly the joint commitments, *singly and severally*, of > the parties to it. > > The MOU, as signed, binds ICANN to six (6) commitments to the *LACRALO*. > > In turn, the ALSes labeled LACRALO, meaning all of us who signed the MOU, > binds us, *singly and severally*, to five (5) distinct actions along > with ICANN in pursuit of our joint commitments . > > The truth is there is a gulf of a difference between the general Latin > American and Caribbean understanding of the meaning of the word 'sovereign' > in context. > > As far back as 2006, we have invited and had interventions from ICANN > legal staff to explain this. I am on the record repeatedly, attempting to > align the facts with the general understanding. My last time was at Costa > Rica. I was responding to the contents of a document filed with the > Secretariat and comments in the General Assembly. And for my troubles, I > was condemned as a liar in several places. The recordings and transcripts > are all available for those who would wish details. > > The records will show Cintra Sooknanan, a lawyer, has also pointed out the > misuse of the term. So too, Lance Hinds and Roosevelt King. > > From my reading of her writings and interventions, I believe Fatima > Cambronera well understands the differences. > > LACRALO is not and may not be 'sovereign'. Everything we might wish to do > in context of names and numbers policy advocacy, advice and development is > informed and limited by the signed MOU, which is itself subject to the > powers and scope granted by the ICANN bye-laws and the LACRALO Rules of > Procedure. > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, change its rules. The process to do so is > described in its Rules of Procedure. And even if there was a move to change > the rules of procedure, you must follow the process as defined in the > rules. Lawyers and courts have a Latin term, 'ultra vires', to describe > actions contrary to established rules. > > Here's the compelling one. LACRALO cannot change ICANN bye-laws. And so > any rule change that undermines or rubbishes ICANN bye-laws would make > LACRALO a rogue and outside the parameters granted by the ICANN MOU. > > If this ever happens, any signatory to the MOU, meaning any ALS, has > standing and a duty of care to petition for grievance in this respect. And > ICANN is duty bound to respond and act as the MOU and its bye-law compels > it so to do. > > Best, > - Carlton > > ============================== > Carlton A Samuels > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* > ============================= > > [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/4a5982eb7d.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by carlosaguirre62＠hotmail.com Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com Corea del Sur: Su falta de respeto es increíble, y no es mi manera de comportarme. Así que, como usted ha dicho: nuestras posiciones están muy lejos. Lamentablemente, su falta de capacidad para discutir y su falta de conocimiento sobre este asunto, ciego por su ignorancia, me hacen dar fin a esta discusión. Cuando usted será capaz de discutir en forma civilizada, dime y tal vez podemos continuar. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN el ex miembro de ALAC por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Córdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 07:25:16 -0400 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > What took you so long to realise that we are on all fours here? The reality of the law of association is that LACRALO is not independent and sovereign, but you insist that it is. The reality of the association between LACRALO and icann is that LACRALO is a satellite of ICANN but you insist that it is not. Were you asleep when you signed? > > Furthermore, in this relationship a few people cannot decide what LACRALO is after the fact and any attempt to take it in another direction will be contrary to the rights of those who signed the MoU and you will not be acting as LACRALO but as yourselves. > > ROK > > From: carlos dionisio aguirre > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:44 PM > To: rok(a)bango.org.bb ; lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: RE: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > ROK: with all my respect I ask sorry to your intelligence, and please ask if (your intelligence) could say to me what is the foundation of it position about LACRALO and why consider is not independent and soverign. > Sorry again for what you consider an insult, I only wanted to give my position about that. > On the other side : If you consider an insult my position about a determinate issue, > I can consider your actitude like a disrespect, maximum when you appeal to discredit but without foundation. > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former ALAC member by LACRALO > Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios > Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - > *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > > > > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:33:40 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > Offensive? I find it an insult to my intelligence when LACRALO is described > > as sovereign and independent. > > > > ROK > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org > > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:23 PM > > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > > [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]] > > > > Subject: Re: RES: OP > > From: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org > > > > I think any discussion in LACRALO opinin justifies this > > magnitude. What estviendo least here, is the anxiety of travel, and are > > facts that have been demonstrated. > > As always, please pour opinions, please apply well > > justify it. Otherwise, exemplify, we consider a > > all with the same yardstick. It is highly offensive. > > And definitely the worst I've seen input to ICANN. > > Regards > > > > > > Alberto Soto > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of > > rok(a)bango.org.bb > > Posted on: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:48 pm > > To: lac-discuss-es(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > > > > > > [[- Translated text (in -> en) -]] > > > > > > Subject: Re: RES: OP > > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > > > > > > Some people want a car to take a truck load. All this > > LACRALO talk about being independent is a nonsense. We must begin > > with the reason why LACRALO is established. It was not a club or party > > political. Comenzcon the objective is to get tickets especfico > > Caribbean and Latin America Internet users, not for us to > > by sb walk out happy. > > > > > > > > > > It seems that there are some who want to appropriate LACRALO to make it > > we want to be. When that day LACRALO is no longer relevant to the > > ICANN, I hope it passes Caribbean peticin Renen and ICANN > > to make direct contributions to ICANN and to leave Los Angeles to continue > > its merry way to nowhere. > > > > > > > > > > LACRALO has lost focus and has entered into a desert politician steep > > where to vote in favor of the officials is the prize ... and where > > people are pushed to the charges if their lives depend on it. > > > > > > > > > > Depressing! > > > > > > > > > > South Korea > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > > Posted on: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:25 > > To: Carlton Samuels > > Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My dear Brother: At this time I can `t share with you. > > I insist on my position LACRALO is independent and sovereign. As you > > said in his (evil, for me) the interpretation, LACRALO can give rules > > s and changes in it, so it is shown fully > > independent, not answerable to anyone. This phrase is clear: > > "This Memorandum of Understanding > > ("MOU") defines an agreement between the signatory organizations > > and > > the Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its > > intention is to establish and define the activities to be carried out, > > the Latin American and Caribbean Regional At-Large great > > organization, supported by ICANN. " > > ICANN is another organization as shown in the previous paragraph. To > > that reason we have a memorandum of understanding, because there are two > > organizations connected with this type of contract or agreement. > > ICANN is based on California law, that is true, but this only > > affects the relationship with LACRALO if LACRALO against taking any > > the directive body of law (California law). if not, memorandum of > > understanding between two different organizations is still alive in > > strength. > > LACRALO consists of organizations and the governing body > > is GA, which is a delegate for each organization. This is the explanation > > of "The signing of the organizations" sentence. > > Now LACRALO with the support of ICANN, as the memorandum of understanding, > > but this may change in the future, and could remain LACRALO a > > independent, and most importantly, this was the idea. > > The idea from the beginning was to have an independent organization in > > Latin America region made by end users, which was the > > LACRALO motivation.We are not part of ICANN, which could > > be the meaning of that? > > ICANN multistackeholder model and there is no need for uniformity. And > > to build a democratic and diverse ecosystem of ICANN needs > > OPINION different to the different focus groups. LACRALO is one of > > them, consisting of end-user organizations in the region of > > LAC. ICANN needs an independent and Sovereign LACRALO. > > My personal opinion about it. > > > > > > > > > > A big hug, big and strong for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > > former member of ALAC for LACRALO > > Lawyer - Specialist Business Law Sarmiento 71 - 4th. 18 > > Cordoba - Argentina - > > * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com > > Date: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:41:48 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > To: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com > > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 08/10/2012 Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > : The government that you mention does not apply in this case, because we > > a specific standard. n the other side I LACRALO is not part of ICNN only > > we have a Memorandum of Understanding signed, but are independent > > standards of ICNN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================ > > > > > > > > > > My brother Carlos: See the highlighted portion of text, according to the > > translation. > > In this case, I think the interpretation is incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LACRALO its interpretation that is "independent" of the > > ICANN standards is widely held in Latin America. Without > > doubt, I think is responsible for statements such as "LACRALO > > is sovereign. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, lawyers can and do disagree on the > > interpretation of the law or documents. > > The case law confirms this. Add to this and in this > > context, differences in the stories and legal mechanisms > > interpretation of the so-called 'common law' countries and countries > > 'Civil right' Front predominantly Latin American Caribbean. This is > > a perfect example and such other case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ICANN premise is well defined in the law. It exists as a > > 'Public benefit' > > corporation under the laws of the State of California. When registering > > as a legal entity, it filed its application with the texts > > State.These bye-laws submitted and accepted by the State of California > > unites and strengthens its operations and actions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This means that the actions of ICANN are legal and enforceable only in the > > as to comply with its implementing legislation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LACRALO premise is defined by the Memorandum of Understanding signed with > > the MOU ICANN.Ese > > subject to the ICANN bylaws, ICANN can not make binding agreements > > are > > detrimental to its implementing legislation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the text describing the "Purpose and Scope > > application "of LACRALO in > > Memorandum of Understanding signed with ICANN: > > > > > > > > > > "This Memorandum of Understanding (" MOU ") defines a > > agreement between the > > The signing of the organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned > > Names > > and > > Numbers.Its purpose is to establish and define the activities > > carried out > > for Latin America and the Caribbean Regional At-Large great organization, > > and > > supported by ICANN. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note the word * "Organizations signing" *. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the definition of that "The signing of the > > Organizations ":" Organizations of the > > Latin America and the Caribbean, certified by the ALAC and At-Large > > Structures that are signatories to this MOU. ". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the signature * organizations *, ie, ALS, which > > enjoy the legal > > relationship with ICANN. In other words, is purely an LACRALO > > tag for ease > > reference, which means "all of us, ALS, acting > > together ". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The ALS certification requirement represents another obstÃ¡culo.La > > power > > accept and certify ALS is transferred to the ALAC through texts > > implementation of ICANN. > > In other words, * not * LACRALO can not exist absent a > > text of application of the ICANN > > mandate of the action of the ALAC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The MOU states clearly the commitments > > sets, ** jointly and severally, the > > parties to it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Memorandum of Understanding, signed, joins ICANN to six (6) the > > commitments to LACRALO **. > > In turn, labeling LACRALO ALS, ie those who signed the > > Memorandum of Understanding > > joins us, * and * jointly alone, five (5) shares > > different, with > > ICANN in the pursuit of our joint commitments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The truth is that there is a gulf of difference between America in general > > America and the Caribbean to understand the meaning of the > > "Sovereign" of the word > > in context. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 2006, we invited and had legal interventions ICANN > > staff to explain this. I'm on the record several times, trying > > aligning > > the facts with general knowledge. My last time was in Costa Rica. > > I > > was responding to the contents of a document filed with the > > Secretariat and > > Assembly General.Y comments to my problems, I was condemned as > > a > > lying in several places. The recordings and transcripts are > > available for > > those wishing to learn more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Records show Sooknanan Cintra, a lawyer, has also indicated > > the > > misuse of the word. Also, Lance Hinds and King of Roosevelt. > > > A partir de mi lectura de sus escritos e intervenciones, creo que FÃ¡tima > > > Cambronera entiende muy bien las diferencias. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do > > context of the names and numbers of the promotion policy, > > counseling and development is > > informed and limited by the MOU signing, which in turn > > is subject to > > powers and the extent granted by the ICANN bylaws and Regulations > > LACRALO > > Procedure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, to change its rules. The process for > > it is > > described in the Regulations. And even if there was a movement to change > > rules of procedure, you must follow the process as defined in > > the rules. > > The lawyers and the courts have a Latin term, "ultra > > vires "to describe the actions > > contrary to the rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the attraction. LACRALO can not change the texts of > > implementation of ICANN.And so any > > rule change that affects or filth of ICANN texts > > application would make a LACRALO > > rogue and outside the parameters provided by the ICANN Memorandum of > > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this happens, any signatory of the Memorandum of > > Understanding, that is, any commonwealth, has > > standing and a duty of care complaint petition in this regard. And > > ICANN has a duty to respond and act as the Memorandum of > > Understanding and application text requires > > so to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, - Carlton > > ============================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carlton Samuels A > > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > > Strategy, Planning, Government, Evaluation and deadlines > > ============================= > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/f55eb8d553.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by jam＠jacquelinemorris.com Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: jam(a)jacquelinemorris.com Si LACRALO no es una parte de la ICANN, entonces tal vez no debería ser el n Orrg gráfico como tal. Jacqueline A. Morris La tecnología debe ser como el oxígeno: Ubicua, necesaria, invisible y Gratis. (Después de que Chris Lehmann) El mar, 14 de agosto 2012 a las 10:25 AM, Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> escribió: > > My Dear Bro: On this opportunity I can`t share with you. I insist in my position LACRALO is: independent and soverign. As you said in your (wrong,for me ) interpretation, LACRALO can give rules itself and changes the same, so it shows it completely independent, dont have to respond to anybody. This sentence is clear: "This Memorandum of understanding ("MOU")defines an agreement between the Signing Organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its intent is to establish, and define activities to be carried out by, the Latin America & Caribbean Regional At-Large Large Organization, and supported by ICANN." > ICANN is another organization as showed the paragraph before. For that reason we have a MoU, because there are two organizations related by this kind of contract or agreement. > ICANN is based on the California Law, thats true, but this only affect the relationship with LACRALO, if LACRALO adopt some directive against this legal body (CAlifornia law). if not, MoU between two different organization remains alive in force. > LACRALO is constituted by Organizations, and the government body is it GA, wich is one delegate by each organization. This is the explanation of the "Signing Organizations" sentence. > Now LACRALO is supported by ICANN, according MoU, but this could change in the future, and LACRALO could follow being an organization independent, and the most important: this was the idea . > The idea from the begining was to have an independent organization in LAC region composed by End Users, that was the motivation of LACRALO. We are not part of ICANN, wich could be the sense of that? > ICANN and the multistackeholder model no need uniformity. And to build a diverse & democratic ecosystem ICANN need differents oppinion from different groups of opinion. LACRALO is one of them, composed by End Users organizations by LAC region. ICANN need a LACRALO independent and soverign. > My personal opinion on that. > > A warm, big and strong hug to you. > > > > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former ALAC member by LACRALO > Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios > Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - > *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > From: carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:41:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > To: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > 2012/8/10 carlos dionisio aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> > > > :rule that you mention doesnt apply in this case, because we have a specific rule. Ón the othe side LACRALO is not part of ICÁNN we only have a MOU signed, but we are independent of ICÁNN rules. > > > > > > Regards > > > ================================ > > My brother Carlos:See the highlighted portion of your text, as translated. In this case, I believe the interpretation is incorrect. > > > Your interpretation that LACRALO is 'independent' of ICANN rules is widely held in Latin America. Without a doubt, I believe it is responsible for declarations such as 'LACRALO is sovereign'. > > > > Now, lawyers can and do disagree in interpretation of statute or documents. Case law confirms this situation. Add to this and in this context, the differences in legal histories and interpretative mechanisms of so-called 'common law' countries as in the Caribbean versus 'civil law' countries as predominant in Latin America. Here is a perfect example and another such case. > > > ICANN's premise is well defined in law. It exists as a 'public benefit' corporation under the laws of the state of California. When it registered as a legal entity, it filed its bye-laws with the State. Those bye-laws filed and accepted by the State of California binds and empowers its operations and actions. > > > This means ICANN's actions are only legal and enforceable to the extent they comply with its bye-laws. > > > LACRALO's premise is defined by the MOU signed with ICANN. That MOU is subject to the ICANN bye-laws; ICANN cannot make binding agreements that are injurious to its bye-laws. > > > This is the text that describes the "Purpose and Scope" of LACRALO in the MOU signed with ICANN: > > "This Memorandum of understanding ("MOU")defines an agreement between the Signing Organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its intent is to establish, and define activities to be carried out by, the Latin America & Caribbean Regional At-Large Large Organization, and supported by ICANN." > > > Note the term *"Signing Organisations"*. > > > Here's the definition of said 'Signing Organisations': "Organizations in the Latin America & Caribbean region certified by the ALAC as At-Large Structures that are signatories to this MOU.". > > > It is the *signing organisations*, meaning the ALSes, that enjoy the legal relationship with ICANN. In other words, LACRALO is purely a label for ease of reference that means 'all of us ALSes, acting together'. > > > The certification requirement for ALSes poses another hurdle. The power to accept and certify ALSes is ceded to the ALAC by way of the ICANN bye-laws. In other words, *LACRALO* does not and cannot exist absent an ICANN bye-law mandated action of the ALAC. > > > The MOU states clearly the joint commitments, *singly and severally*, of the parties to it. > > > The MOU, as signed, binds ICANN to six (6) commitments to the *LACRALO*. > In turn, the ALSes labeled LACRALO, meaning all of us who signed the MOU, binds us, *singly and severally*, to five (5) distinct actions along with ICANN in pursuit of our joint commitments . > > > The truth is there is a gulf of a difference between the general Latin American and Caribbean understanding of the meaning of the word 'sovereign' in context. > > > As far back as 2006, we have invited and had interventions from ICANN legal staff to explain this. I am on the record repeatedly, attempting to align the facts with the general understanding. My last time was at Costa Rica. I was responding to the contents of a document filed with the Secretariat and comments in the General Assembly. And for my troubles, I was condemned as a liar in several places. The recordings and transcripts are all available for those who would wish details. > > > The records will show Cintra Sooknanan, a lawyer, has also pointed out the misuse of the term. So too, Lance Hinds and Roosevelt King. > > > >From my reading of her writings and interventions, I believe Fatima Cambronera well understands the differences. > > > LACRALO is not and may not be 'sovereign'. Everything we might wish to do in context of names and numbers policy advocacy, advice and development is informed and limited by the signed MOU, which is itself subject to the powers and scope granted by the ICANN bye-laws and the LACRALO Rules of Procedure. > > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, change its rules. The process to do so is described in its Rules of Procedure. And even if there was a move to change the rules of procedure, you must follow the process as defined in the rules. Lawyers and courts have a Latin term, 'ultra vires', to describe actions contrary to established rules. > > > Here's the compelling one. LACRALO cannot change ICANN bye-laws. And so any rule change that undermines or rubbishes ICANN bye-laws would make LACRALO a rogue and outside the parameters granted by the ICANN MOU. > > > If this ever happens, any signatory to the MOU, meaning any ALS, has standing and a duty of care to petition for grievance in this respect. And ICANN is duty bound to respond and act as the MOU and its bye-law compels it so to do. > > > Best,- Carlton > ============================== > > > Carlton A Samuels > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround > ============================= > > _______________________________________________ > lac-discuss-en mailing list > lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/182b621585.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by rok＠bango.org.bb Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: rok(a)bango.org.bb ¿Qué te tomó tanto tiempo para darse cuenta de que estamos a cuatro patas en este caso? La realidad de la ley de la asociación es que LACRALO no es independiente y soberano, pero insisten en que es. La realidad de la asociación entre LACRALO y la ICANN es que LACRALO es un satélite de la ICANN, pero usted insiste en que no lo es. ¿Estabas dormido cuando te registraste? Además, en esta relación a algunas personas no pueden decidir lo que LACRALO es después de los hechos y cualquier intento de tomarlo en otra dirección será contraria a los derechos de los que firmaron el memorando de entendimiento y no estar actuando como LACRALO pero como ustedes mismos. Corea del Sur De: Carlos Aguirre Dionisio Enviado el: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 22:44 Para: rok(a)bango.org.bb; lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Corea del Sur: con todo mi respeto le pido perdón a su inteligencia, y por favor pregunte si (la inteligencia) podría decirme cuál es el fundamento de su posición acerca de LACRALO y por qué considera no es independiente y Soberana. Lo siento de nuevo por lo que consideran un insulto, yo sólo quería dar mi posición al respecto. En el otro lado: Si se considera un insulto a mi posición sobre un tema determinado, Puedo considerar su Actitud como una falta de respeto, máximo cuando se apela a desacreditar sin fundamento. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN el ex miembro de ALAC por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Córdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:33:40 -0400 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > Offensive? I find it an insult to my intelligence when LACRALO is described > as sovereign and independent. > > ROK > > -----Original Message----- > From: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:23 PM > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]] > > Subject: Re: RES: OP > From: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org > > I think any discussion in LACRALO opinin justifies this > magnitude. What estviendo least here, is the anxiety of travel, and are > facts that have been demonstrated. > As always, please pour opinions, please apply well > justify it. Otherwise, exemplify, we consider a > all with the same yardstick. It is highly offensive. > And definitely the worst I've seen input to ICANN. > Regards > > > Alberto Soto > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of > rok(a)bango.org.bb > Posted on: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:48 pm > To: lac-discuss-es(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > [[- Translated text (in -> en) -]] > > > Subject: Re: RES: OP > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > > > Some people want a car to take a truck load. All this > LACRALO talk about being independent is a nonsense. We must begin > with the reason why LACRALO is established. It was not a club or party > political. Comenzcon the objective is to get tickets especfico > Caribbean and Latin America Internet users, not for us to > by sb walk out happy. > > > > > It seems that there are some who want to appropriate LACRALO to make it > we want to be. When that day LACRALO is no longer relevant to the > ICANN, I hope it passes Caribbean peticin Renen and ICANN > to make direct contributions to ICANN and to leave Los Angeles to continue > its merry way to nowhere. > > > > > LACRALO has lost focus and has entered into a desert politician steep > where to vote in favor of the officials is the prize ... and where > people are pushed to the charges if their lives depend on it. > > > > > Depressing! > > > > > South Korea > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > Posted on: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:25 > To: Carlton Samuels > Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > > > > > My dear Brother: At this time I can `t share with you. > I insist on my position LACRALO is independent and sovereign. As you > said in his (evil, for me) the interpretation, LACRALO can give rules > s and changes in it, so it is shown fully > independent, not answerable to anyone. This phrase is clear: > "This Memorandum of Understanding > ("MOU") defines an agreement between the signatory organizations > and > the Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its > intention is to establish and define the activities to be carried out, > the Latin American and Caribbean Regional At-Large great > organization, supported by ICANN. " > ICANN is another organization as shown in the previous paragraph. To > that reason we have a memorandum of understanding, because there are two > organizations connected with this type of contract or agreement. > ICANN is based on California law, that is true, but this only > affects the relationship with LACRALO if LACRALO against taking any > the directive body of law (California law). if not, memorandum of > understanding between two different organizations is still alive in > strength. > LACRALO consists of organizations and the governing body > is GA, which is a delegate for each organization. This is the explanation > of "The signing of the organizations" sentence. > Now LACRALO with the support of ICANN, as the memorandum of understanding, > but this may change in the future, and could remain LACRALO a > independent, and most importantly, this was the idea. > The idea from the beginning was to have an independent organization in > Latin America region made by end users, which was the > LACRALO motivation.We are not part of ICANN, which could > be the meaning of that? > ICANN multistackeholder model and there is no need for uniformity. And > to build a democratic and diverse ecosystem of ICANN needs > OPINION different to the different focus groups. LACRALO is one of > them, consisting of end-user organizations in the region of > LAC. ICANN needs an independent and Sovereign LACRALO. > My personal opinion about it. > > > > > A big hug, big and strong for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former member of ALAC for LACRALO > Lawyer - Specialist Business Law Sarmiento 71 - 4th. 18 > Cordoba - Argentina - > * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > > > > > > > From: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com > Date: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:41:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > To: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > > > > > > 08/10/2012 Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > : The government that you mention does not apply in this case, because we > a specific standard. n the other side I LACRALO is not part of ICNN only > we have a Memorandum of Understanding signed, but are independent > standards of ICNN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > ================================ > > > > > My brother Carlos: See the highlighted portion of text, according to the > translation. > In this case, I think the interpretation is incorrect. > > > > > > > > > LACRALO its interpretation that is "independent" of the > ICANN standards is widely held in Latin America. Without > doubt, I think is responsible for statements such as "LACRALO > is sovereign. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, lawyers can and do disagree on the > interpretation of the law or documents. > The case law confirms this. Add to this and in this > context, differences in the stories and legal mechanisms > interpretation of the so-called 'common law' countries and countries > 'Civil right' Front predominantly Latin American Caribbean. This is > a perfect example and such other case. > > > > > > > > > ICANN premise is well defined in the law. It exists as a > 'Public benefit' > corporation under the laws of the State of California. When registering > as a legal entity, it filed its application with the texts > State.These bye-laws submitted and accepted by the State of California > unites and strengthens its operations and actions. > > > > > > > > > This means that the actions of ICANN are legal and enforceable only in the > as to comply with its implementing legislation. > > > > > > > > > LACRALO premise is defined by the Memorandum of Understanding signed with > the MOU ICANN.Ese > subject to the ICANN bylaws, ICANN can not make binding agreements > are > detrimental to its implementing legislation. > > > > > > > > > This is the text describing the "Purpose and Scope > application "of LACRALO in > Memorandum of Understanding signed with ICANN: > > > > > "This Memorandum of Understanding (" MOU ") defines a > agreement between the > The signing of the organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned > Names > and > Numbers.Its purpose is to establish and define the activities > carried out > for Latin America and the Caribbean Regional At-Large great organization, > and > supported by ICANN. " > > > > > > > > > Note the word * "Organizations signing" *. > > > > > > > > > Here is the definition of that "The signing of the > Organizations ":" Organizations of the > Latin America and the Caribbean, certified by the ALAC and At-Large > Structures that are signatories to this MOU. ". > > > > > > > > > This is the signature * organizations *, ie, ALS, which > enjoy the legal > relationship with ICANN. In other words, is purely an LACRALO > tag for ease > reference, which means "all of us, ALS, acting > together ". > > > > > > > > > The ALS certification requirement represents another obstÃ¡culo.La > power > accept and certify ALS is transferred to the ALAC through texts > implementation of ICANN. > In other words, * not * LACRALO can not exist absent a > text of application of the ICANN > mandate of the action of the ALAC. > > > > > > > > > The MOU states clearly the commitments > sets, ** jointly and severally, the > parties to it. > > > > > > > > > The Memorandum of Understanding, signed, joins ICANN to six (6) the > commitments to LACRALO **. > In turn, labeling LACRALO ALS, ie those who signed the > Memorandum of Understanding > joins us, * and * jointly alone, five (5) shares > different, with > ICANN in the pursuit of our joint commitments. > > > > > > > > > The truth is that there is a gulf of difference between America in general > America and the Caribbean to understand the meaning of the > "Sovereign" of the word > in context. > > > > > > > > > In 2006, we invited and had legal interventions ICANN > staff to explain this. I'm on the record several times, trying > aligning > the facts with general knowledge. My last time was in Costa Rica. > I > was responding to the contents of a document filed with the > Secretariat and > Assembly General.Y comments to my problems, I was condemned as > a > lying in several places. The recordings and transcripts are > available for > those wishing to learn more. > > > > > > > > > Records show Sooknanan Cintra, a lawyer, has also indicated > the > misuse of the word. Also, Lance Hinds and King of Roosevelt. > > A partir de mi lectura de sus escritos e intervenciones, creo que FÃ¡tima > > Cambronera entiende muy bien las diferencias. > > > > > > > > > > > do > context of the names and numbers of the promotion policy, > counseling and development is > informed and limited by the MOU signing, which in turn > is subject to > powers and the extent granted by the ICANN bylaws and Regulations > LACRALO > Procedure. > > > > > > > > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, to change its rules. The process for > it is > described in the Regulations. And even if there was a movement to change > rules of procedure, you must follow the process as defined in > the rules. > The lawyers and the courts have a Latin term, "ultra > vires "to describe the actions > contrary to the rules. > > > > > > > > > Here's the attraction. LACRALO can not change the texts of > implementation of ICANN.And so any > rule change that affects or filth of ICANN texts > application would make a LACRALO > rogue and outside the parameters provided by the ICANN Memorandum of > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > If this happens, any signatory of the Memorandum of > Understanding, that is, any commonwealth, has > standing and a duty of care complaint petition in this regard. And > ICANN has a duty to respond and act as the Memorandum of > Understanding and application text requires > so to do. > > > > > > > > > Best, - Carlton > ============================== > > > > > > > > > Carlton Samuels A > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > Strategy, Planning, Government, Evaluation and deadlines > ============================= > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/ecc700057a.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by carlosaguirre62＠hotmail.com Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com Corea del Sur: con todo mi respeto le pido perdón a su inteligencia, y por favor pregunte si (la inteligencia) podría decirme cuál es el fundamento de su posición acerca de LACRALO y por qué considera no es independiente y Soberana. Lo siento de nuevo por lo que consideran un insulto, yo sólo quería dar mi posición al respecto. En el otro lado: Si se considera un insulto a mi posición sobre un tema determinado, Puedo considerar su Actitud como una falta de respeto, máximo cuando se apela a desacreditar sin fundamento. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN el ex miembro de ALAC por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Córdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 21:33:40 -0400 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > Offensive? I find it an insult to my intelligence when LACRALO is described > as sovereign and independent. > > ROK > > -----Original Message----- > From: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:23 PM > To: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]] > > Subject: Re: RES: OP > From: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org > > I think any discussion in LACRALO opinin justifies this > magnitude. What estviendo least here, is the anxiety of travel, and are > facts that have been demonstrated. > As always, please pour opinions, please apply well > justify it. Otherwise, exemplify, we consider a > all with the same yardstick. It is highly offensive. > And definitely the worst I've seen input to ICANN. > Regards > > > Alberto Soto > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of > rok(a)bango.org.bb > Posted on: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:48 pm > To: lac-discuss-es(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > [[- Translated text (in -> en) -]] > > > Subject: Re: RES: OP > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > > > Some people want a car to take a truck load. All this > LACRALO talk about being independent is a nonsense. We must begin > with the reason why LACRALO is established. It was not a club or party > political. Comenzcon the objective is to get tickets especfico > Caribbean and Latin America Internet users, not for us to > by sb walk out happy. > > > > > It seems that there are some who want to appropriate LACRALO to make it > we want to be. When that day LACRALO is no longer relevant to the > ICANN, I hope it passes Caribbean peticin Renen and ICANN > to make direct contributions to ICANN and to leave Los Angeles to continue > its merry way to nowhere. > > > > > LACRALO has lost focus and has entered into a desert politician steep > where to vote in favor of the officials is the prize ... and where > people are pushed to the charges if their lives depend on it. > > > > > Depressing! > > > > > South Korea > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > Posted on: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 10:25 > To: Carlton Samuels > Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > > > > > > > > > My dear Brother: At this time I can `t share with you. > I insist on my position LACRALO is independent and sovereign. As you > said in his (evil, for me) the interpretation, LACRALO can give rules > s and changes in it, so it is shown fully > independent, not answerable to anyone. This phrase is clear: > "This Memorandum of Understanding > ("MOU") defines an agreement between the signatory organizations > and > the Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. Its > intention is to establish and define the activities to be carried out, > the Latin American and Caribbean Regional At-Large great > organization, supported by ICANN. " > ICANN is another organization as shown in the previous paragraph. To > that reason we have a memorandum of understanding, because there are two > organizations connected with this type of contract or agreement. > ICANN is based on California law, that is true, but this only > affects the relationship with LACRALO if LACRALO against taking any > the directive body of law (California law). if not, memorandum of > understanding between two different organizations is still alive in > strength. > LACRALO consists of organizations and the governing body > is GA, which is a delegate for each organization. This is the explanation > of "The signing of the organizations" sentence. > Now LACRALO with the support of ICANN, as the memorandum of understanding, > but this may change in the future, and could remain LACRALO a > independent, and most importantly, this was the idea. > The idea from the beginning was to have an independent organization in > Latin America region made by end users, which was the > LACRALO motivation.We are not part of ICANN, which could > be the meaning of that? > ICANN multistackeholder model and there is no need for uniformity. And > to build a democratic and diverse ecosystem of ICANN needs > OPINION different to the different focus groups. LACRALO is one of > them, consisting of end-user organizations in the region of > LAC. ICANN needs an independent and Sovereign LACRALO. > My personal opinion about it. > > > > > A big hug, big and strong for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former member of ALAC for LACRALO > Lawyer - Specialist Business Law Sarmiento 71 - 4th. 18 > Cordoba - Argentina - > * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > > > > > > > From: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com > Date: Monday, August 13, 2012 12:41:48 -0500 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > To: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com > CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > > > > > > 08/10/2012 Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> > > > > > > > > > : The government that you mention does not apply in this case, because we > a specific standard. n the other side I LACRALO is not part of ICNN only > we have a Memorandum of Understanding signed, but are independent > standards of ICNN. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > ================================ > > > > > My brother Carlos: See the highlighted portion of text, according to the > translation. > In this case, I think the interpretation is incorrect. > > > > > > > > > LACRALO its interpretation that is "independent" of the > ICANN standards is widely held in Latin America. Without > doubt, I think is responsible for statements such as "LACRALO > is sovereign. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, lawyers can and do disagree on the > interpretation of the law or documents. > The case law confirms this. Add to this and in this > context, differences in the stories and legal mechanisms > interpretation of the so-called 'common law' countries and countries > 'Civil right' Front predominantly Latin American Caribbean. This is > a perfect example and such other case. > > > > > > > > > ICANN premise is well defined in the law. It exists as a > 'Public benefit' > corporation under the laws of the State of California. When registering > as a legal entity, it filed its application with the texts > State.These bye-laws submitted and accepted by the State of California > unites and strengthens its operations and actions. > > > > > > > > > This means that the actions of ICANN are legal and enforceable only in the > as to comply with its implementing legislation. > > > > > > > > > LACRALO premise is defined by the Memorandum of Understanding signed with > the MOU ICANN.Ese > subject to the ICANN bylaws, ICANN can not make binding agreements > are > detrimental to its implementing legislation. > > > > > > > > > This is the text describing the "Purpose and Scope > application "of LACRALO in > Memorandum of Understanding signed with ICANN: > > > > > "This Memorandum of Understanding (" MOU ") defines a > agreement between the > The signing of the organizations and the Internet Corporation for Assigned > Names > and > Numbers.Its purpose is to establish and define the activities > carried out > for Latin America and the Caribbean Regional At-Large great organization, > and > supported by ICANN. " > > > > > > > > > Note the word * "Organizations signing" *. > > > > > > > > > Here is the definition of that "The signing of the > Organizations ":" Organizations of the > Latin America and the Caribbean, certified by the ALAC and At-Large > Structures that are signatories to this MOU. ". > > > > > > > > > This is the signature * organizations *, ie, ALS, which > enjoy the legal > relationship with ICANN. In other words, is purely an LACRALO > tag for ease > reference, which means "all of us, ALS, acting > together ". > > > > > > > > > The ALS certification requirement represents another obstÃ¡culo.La > power > accept and certify ALS is transferred to the ALAC through texts > implementation of ICANN. > In other words, * not * LACRALO can not exist absent a > text of application of the ICANN > mandate of the action of the ALAC. > > > > > > > > > The MOU states clearly the commitments > sets, ** jointly and severally, the > parties to it. > > > > > > > > > The Memorandum of Understanding, signed, joins ICANN to six (6) the > commitments to LACRALO **. > In turn, labeling LACRALO ALS, ie those who signed the > Memorandum of Understanding > joins us, * and * jointly alone, five (5) shares > different, with > ICANN in the pursuit of our joint commitments. > > > > > > > > > The truth is that there is a gulf of difference between America in general > America and the Caribbean to understand the meaning of the > "Sovereign" of the word > in context. > > > > > > > > > In 2006, we invited and had legal interventions ICANN > staff to explain this. I'm on the record several times, trying > aligning > the facts with general knowledge. My last time was in Costa Rica. > I > was responding to the contents of a document filed with the > Secretariat and > Assembly General.Y comments to my problems, I was condemned as > a > lying in several places. The recordings and transcripts are > available for > those wishing to learn more. > > > > > > > > > Records show Sooknanan Cintra, a lawyer, has also indicated > the > misuse of the word. Also, Lance Hinds and King of Roosevelt. > > A partir de mi lectura de sus escritos e intervenciones, creo que FÃ¡tima > > Cambronera entiende muy bien las diferencias. > > > > > > > > > > > do > context of the names and numbers of the promotion policy, > counseling and development is > informed and limited by the MOU signing, which in turn > is subject to > powers and the extent granted by the ICANN bylaws and Regulations > LACRALO > Procedure. > > > > > > > > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, to change its rules. The process for > it is > described in the Regulations. And even if there was a movement to change > rules of procedure, you must follow the process as defined in > the rules. > The lawyers and the courts have a Latin term, "ultra > vires "to describe the actions > contrary to the rules. > > > > > > > > > Here's the attraction. LACRALO can not change the texts of > implementation of ICANN.And so any > rule change that affects or filth of ICANN texts > application would make a LACRALO > rogue and outside the parameters provided by the ICANN Memorandum of > Understanding. > > > > > > > > > If this happens, any signatory of the Memorandum of > Understanding, that is, any commonwealth, has > standing and a duty of care complaint petition in this regard. And > ICANN has a duty to respond and act as the Memorandum of > Understanding and application text requires > so to do. > > > > > > > > > Best, - Carlton > ============================== > > > > > > > > > Carlton Samuels A > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > Strategy, Planning, Government, Evaluation and deadlines > ============================= > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/135e97d1fb.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by carlosaguirre62＠hotmail.com Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com En particular, no es mi idea. Pero estoy de acuerdo contigo en que algunas personas están en este camino. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN el ex miembro de ALAC por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Córdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org De: rok(a)bango.org.bb Para: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Fecha: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 21:07:17 -0400 Sé que mi comentario no ayuda porque ustedes están decididos a hacer fracasar LACRALO. Corea del Sur De: Carlos Aguirre Dionisio Enviado el: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 20:53 Para: rok(a)bango.org.bb; carlton Samuels Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Corea del Sur: ¿Podría ser, pero tu comentario no ayuda. Saludos. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN el ex miembro de ALAC por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Córdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org > From: rok(a)bango.org.bb > To: > CC: > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] > Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 20:47:08 -0400 > > Some > > was established. It was not a club or political party. It was started > the specific objective of getting inputs from Caribbean and Latin > internet users, not for us to go off on some jolly > > It seems that there are some who would want to hijack > what they want to be. When that day comes and > to ICANN, I would hope that the Caribbean > petition ICANN to make direct inputs to > their merry journey to > > LACRALO has lost focus and has gone into a steep > voting for officers is the prize... and > if their lives depend on > > Depressing! > > ROK > > > From: carlos dionisio aguirre > Sent: > To: carlton samuels > Cc: > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] > > > My Dear Bro: On this opportunity I can`t share > position LACRALO is: independent and soverign. > (wrong,for me ) interpretation, LACRALO can give > the same, so it shows it completely > anybody. This sentence is clear: > ("MOU")defines an agreement between > Internet Corporation for Assigned > establish, and define activities to > Caribbean Regional At-Large > ICANN is another > reason we have a > kind of > ICANN is based on the California Law, thats true, > relationship with LACRALO, if LACRALO adopt > legal body (CAlifornia law). if not, MoU > remains alive in force. > > wich is one delegate by each organization. This is the explanation of > "Signing Organizations" sentence. > Now LACRALO is supported > the future, and > the most > The idea from the begining was to have an > region composed by End Users, that was > part of ICANN, wich could be the > ICANN and the multistackeholder model no need uniformity. > diverse & democratic ecosystem ICANN need differents > groups of opinion. LACRALO is one of them, > organizations by LAC region. ICANN need a LACRALO > My personal opinion on that. > > > > > > > > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN > former ALAC > Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los > Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - > > http://ar.ageiadensi.org > > > From: carlton.samuels(a)gmail.com > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:41:48 > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] RES: OP > To: > CC: > > > 2012/8/10 > > > :rule that you mention doesnt apply in this case, because we have a > specific rule. Ón the othe side LACRALO is not part of ICÁNN we only > MOU signed, but we are independent of ICÁNN rules. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > My brother Carlos:See the > In this case, I > > > Your > > > > > > > Case law confirms this situation. Add to this and in this context, the > differences in legal histories and interpretative mechanisms of > 'common law' countries as in the Caribbean versus 'civil law' > predominant in Latin America. Here is a perfect example > case. > > > ICANN's premise is > corporation under > a legal > and > > > > This means ICANN's actions are only legal > comply with its bye-laws. > > > LACRALO's premise is defined by the MOU signed with ICANN. > subject to the ICANN bye-laws; ICANN cannot make binding > injurious to its bye-laws. > > > This is the text that describes the "Purpose and Scope" of LACRALO in > MOU signed with ICANN: > > "This Memorandum of > Signing > > by, the Latin America & Caribbean Regional At-Large Large > supported by ICANN." > > > Note > > > Here's the > Latin > > > > It is > > of reference that means 'all of us ALSes, acting together'. > > > The certification requirement for ALSes poses another hurdle. > accept and certify ALSes is ceded to the ALAC by way of > In other words, *LACRALO* does not and cannot exist > mandated action of the ALAC. > > > The MOU states clearly the joint commitments, *singly and severally*, > parties to it. > > > The MOU, as signed, > In turn, the ALSes > binds us, > ICANN > > > The truth is > American and > in > > > As far back as 2006, we have invited and had > staff to explain this. I am on the > the facts with the general > was responding to the > comments in the > liar in > > > > The records will show > misuse of the > > > >From > >Cambronera well understands the differences. > > > > context of names and numbers policy advocacy, advice and development is > informed and limited by the signed MOU, which is itself subject to the > powers and scope granted by the ICANN bye-laws and the LACRALO Rules of > Procedure. > > > LACRALO may, if it so chooses, > described in its Rules of > the rules of > Lawyers > > > > Here's the compelling > rule change that > rogue and > > > If > > ICANN is duty bound to respond and act as the MOU and its bye-law > so to do. > > > Best,- Carlton > > > > Carlton A > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > Strategy, Planning, Governance, > ============================= > > _______________________________________________ > lac-discuss-en > lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5200 - > mensaje. Revisado por AVG - www.avg.com VersiÃ³n: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Base de datos: 2437/5201 - Fecha de publicaciÃ³n: 08/14/12 _______________________________________________ [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/a89caf4ab9.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by rok＠bango.org.bb Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: rok(a)bango.org.bb Ofensiva? Me parece un insulto a mi inteligencia cuando se describe LACRALO como soberano e independiente. Corea del Sur ----- Mensaje original ----- De: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org Enviado el: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 21:23 Para: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP [[- Texto traducido (es -> es) -]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org Creo que cualquier discusión en LACRALO opinin justifica esta magnitud. Lo estviendo menos aquí, es la ansiedad de los viajes, y son hechos que han sido demostrados. Como siempre, verter opiniones, por favor, se aplican también así lo justifiquen. De lo contrario, son un ejemplo, se considera un todos con la misma vara. Es altamente ofensivo. Y sin duda lo peor que he visto de entrada a la ICANN. Saludos Alberto Soto ----- Mensaje original ----- De: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de rok(a)bango.org.bb Enviado el: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 21:48 Para: lac-discuss-es(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP [[- Texto traducido (en -> es) -]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: rok(a)bango.org.bb Hay gente que quiere un coche para llevar una carga de camión. Todo esto DiscusiÃ³n LACRALO de ser independiente es una tonterÃa. Tenemos que empezar con la razÃ³n por la LACRALO estÃ¡ establecido. No era un club o un partido polÃtica. Comenzcon el objetivo es conseguir entradas especfico El Caribe y AmÃ©rica Latina los usuarios de Internet de Estados Unidos, no para nosotros a la por SB salga feliz. Parece que hay algunos que quieren apropiarse de LACRALO para hacerlo que queremos ser.Cuando llegue ese dÃa LACRALO ya no es relevante a la ICANN, espero que pase el Caribe peticin Renen e ICANN para hacer contribuciones directas a la ICANN y dejar Los Ãngeles para continuar su alegre camino a ninguna parte. LACRALO ha perdido el foco y ha entrado en un polÃtico fuerte del desierto dÃ³nde ir a votar a favor de los funcionarios es el premio ... y donde personas se ven abocadas a los cargos si sus vidas dependen de ello. Deprimente! Corea del Sur ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Carlos Aguirre Dionisio Enviado el: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 10:25 Para: Carlton Samuels Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Mi querido hermano: En este momento no puedo `t comparten con usted. Insisto en mi posiciÃ³n LACRALO es independiente y soberana.A medida que dijo en su (mal, para mÃ) la interpretaciÃ³n, LACRALO puede dar reglas s y cambios en ella, por lo que se muestra totalmente independiente y sin rendir cuentas a nadie. Esta frase es clara: "Este Memorando de Entendimiento ("MOU") se define un acuerdo entre las organizaciones firmantes y la CorporaciÃ³n para la AsignaciÃ³n de Nombres y NÃºmeros de Internet. Su la intenciÃ³n es establecer y definir las actividades a llevarse a cabo, AmÃ©rica Latina y el Caribe, Regional At-Large gran organizaciÃ³n, con el apoyo de la ICANN. " ICANN es otra organizaciÃ³n, como se muestra en el pÃ¡rrafo anterior. A eso tenemos un memorando de entendimiento, porque hay dos organizaciones relacionadas con este tipo de contrato o acuerdo. ICANN se basa en la ley de California, eso es cierto, pero sÃ³lo este afecta a la relaciÃ³n con LACRALO si LACRALO en contra de tomar cualquier el cuerpo directivo de la ley (la ley de California). si no, memorando de el entendimiento entre dos organizaciones diferentes se mantiene vivo en fuerza. LACRALO se compone de las organizaciones y el Ã³rgano de gobierno es GA, que es un delegado por cada organizaciÃ³n. Esta es la explicaciÃ³n de "La firma de la organizaciones", sentencia. Ahora LACRALO con el apoyo de la ICANN, ya que el memorando de entendimiento, pero esto puede cambiar en el futuro, y podrÃa seguir un LACRALO independiente, y lo mÃ¡s importante, esta era la idea. La idea desde el principio era tener una organizaciÃ³n independiente RegiÃ³n de AmÃ©rica Latina realizados por los usuarios finales, que fue el LACRALO motivation.We no forman parte de la ICANN, que podrÃa ser el significado de eso? ICANN modelo multistackeholder y no hay necesidad de uniformidad. Y para construir un ecosistema democrÃ¡tica y diversa de las necesidades de la ICANN OpiniÃ³n diferente a los distintos grupos de interÃ©s. LACRALO es una de ellos, que consiste en organizaciones de usuarios finales en la regiÃ³n de ALC. ICANN necesita un LACRALO independiente y soberano. Mi opiniÃ³n personal al respecto. Un abrazo grande, grande y fuerte para usted. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN ex miembro de ALAC para LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho Empresarial Sarmiento 71 - 4 Âº.18 CÃ³rdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org De: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com Fecha: Lunes, 13 de agosto 2012 12:41:48 -0500 Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Para: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org 08/10/2012 Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> : El gobierno que usted menciona no se aplica en este caso, debido a que un estÃ¡ndar especÃfico. n del otro lado me LACRALO no es sÃ³lo parte de ICNN tenemos un Memorando de Entendimiento firmado, pero son independientes estÃ¡ndares de ICNN. Saludos ================================ Mi hermano Carlos: Consulte la parte resaltada de texto, de acuerdo con la traducciÃ³n. En este caso, creo que la interpretaciÃ³n es incorrecta. LACRALO su interpretaciÃ³n de que es "independiente" de la Las normas de la ICANN estÃ¡ muy extendida en AmÃ©rica Latina. Sin lugar a dudas, creo que es responsable de frases como "LACRALO es soberano. " Ahora, los abogados pueden y de hecho no estÃ¡n de acuerdo en la interpretaciÃ³n de la ley o en los documentos. La jurisprudencia asÃ lo confirma. AÃ±adir a esta y en este contexto, las diferencias en las historias y los mecanismos jurÃdicos la interpretaciÃ³n de los paÃses del "common law" y los llamados paÃses 'Derecho Civil' Frente principalmente de AmÃ©rica Latina el Caribe. Es un ejemplo perfecto y otro caso, por ejemplo. Premisa de la ICANN estÃ¡ bien definido en la ley. Existe como un 'Beneficio pÃºblico' corporaciÃ³n bajo las leyes del Estado de California. Al registrarse como una entidad legal, que presentÃ³ su solicitud con los textos State.These los estatutos presentados y aceptados por el Estado de California une y fortalece sus operaciones y acciones. Esto significa que las acciones de ICANN son legales y aplicables sÃ³lo en el de cumplir con su legislaciÃ³n de aplicaciÃ³n. Premisa de LACRALO se define por el Memorando de Entendimiento firmado con la el Memorando de Entendimiento ICANN.Ese sujeto a los estatutos de la ICANN, la ICANN no puede hacer acuerdos vinculantes son en detrimento de su legislaciÃ³n de aplicaciÃ³n. Este es el texto que describe el propÃ³sito "y Ã¡mbito de aplicaciÃ³n aplicaciÃ³n "de LACRALO en Memorando de Entendimiento firmado con la ICANN: "Este Memorando de Entendimiento (" MOU ") define un acuerdo entre el La firma de las organizaciones y la CorporaciÃ³n para la AsignaciÃ³n Nombres y Objetivo Numbers.Its es establecer y definir las actividades llevÃ³ a cabo para AmÃ©rica Latina y el Caribe Regional At-Large gran organizaciÃ³n, y con el apoyo de la ICANN. " Tenga en cuenta la palabra * "Organizaciones firma" *. AquÃ estÃ¡ la definiciÃ³n de que "La firma de la Organizaciones ":" Las organizaciones de la AmÃ©rica Latina y el Caribe, certificada por el ALAC y At Large- Las estructuras que son firmantes de este MOU. ". Esta es la firma de * las organizaciones *, es decir, esclerosis lateral amiotrÃ³fica, que disfrutar de la jurÃdica relaciÃ³n con la ICANN. En otras palabras, es puramente un LACRALO etiqueta para facilitar de referencia, lo que significa "todos nosotros, esclerosis lateral amiotrÃ³fica, que actÃºa juntos ". El requisito de certificaciÃ³n de ALS representa otro obstÃ¡culo.La poder aceptar y certificar la ELA se transfiere a la ALAC a travÃ©s de textos la aplicaciÃ³n de la ICANN. En otras palabras, * no * LACRALO no puede existir un ausente texto de aplicaciÃ³n de la ICANN mandato de la acciÃ³n de la ALAC. Los estados del Memorando de Entendimiento con claridad los compromisos juegos **, conjunta y solidariamente, el partes en Ã©l. El Memorando de Entendimiento, firmado, se une a la ICANN a seis (6) de la compromisos con la LACRALO. ** A su vez, el etiquetado LACRALO ALS, es decir, los que firmaron la Memorando de Entendimiento se une a nosotros, * y * por sÃ solos, conjuntamente cinco (5) acciones diferente, con ICANN en la bÃºsqueda de nuestros compromisos conjuntos. La verdad es que hay un abismo de diferencia entre los Estados Unidos, en general, Latina y el Caribe para entender el significado de la "Soberano" de la palabra en su contexto. En 2006, invitado y tuvo intervenciones legales de la ICANN personal para explicar esto. Estoy en el registro varias veces, tratando de la alineaciÃ³n de los hechos con el conocimiento general. Mi Ãºltima vez fue en Costa Rica. Yo estaba respondiendo a los contenidos de un documento presentado con el SecretarÃa y Asamblea comentarios General.Y a mis problemas, fui condenado como un mentir en varios lugares. Las grabaciones y transcripciones son disponible para aquellos que deseen aprender mÃ¡s. Los registros muestran Sooknanan Cintra, un abogado, tambiÃ©n ha indicado la mal uso de la palabra. AdemÃ¡s, lanza Hinds y el rey de Roosevelt. > A partir de mi lectura de sus escritos e intervenciones, creo que FÃ¡tima > Cambronera entiende muy bien las diferencias. contexto de los nombres y nÃºmeros de la polÃtica de promociÃ³n, el asesoramiento y el desarrollo es informado y limitado por la firma memorando de entendimiento, que a su vez estÃ¡ sujeta a poderes y el alcance otorgado por los estatutos de la ICANN y el Reglamento LACRALO Procedimiento. LACRALO puede, si asÃ lo decide, para cambiar sus reglas. El proceso para es descrito en el Reglamento. E incluso si hubo un movimiento para cambiar reglas de procedimiento, debe seguir el proceso tal como se define en el las reglas. Los abogados y los tribunales tienen un mandato de AmÃ©rica, "ultra vires "para describir las acciones contrario a las normas. Esta es la atracciÃ³n.LACRALO no puede cambiar los textos de aplicaciÃ³n de ICANN.And por lo que cualquier regla de cambio que afecte o suciedad de los textos de la ICANN aplicaciÃ³n serÃa una LACRALO pÃcaro y fuera de los parÃ¡metros previstos por el Protocolo de ICANN Entendimiento. Si esto sucede, cualquiera de los signatarios del Memorando de Entendimiento, es decir, ningÃºn Estado, tiene de pie y un deber de cuidado de la peticiÃ³n de denuncia al respecto. Y ICANN tiene el deber de responder y actuar como el Memorando de La comprensiÃ³n del texto y la aplicaciÃ³n requiere por lo que hacer. Mejor, - Carlton ============================== Carlton Samuels A MÃ³vil: 876-818-1799 Estrategia, PlanificaciÃ³n, Gobierno, la evaluaciÃ³n y los plazos ============================= _______________________________________________ [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/222769966c.html --]]

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Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by asoto＠ibero-americano.org Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: asoto(a)ibero-americano.org Creo Que Ninguna discusin en LACRALO justificación UNA opinin of this magnitud. Lo Que sí Menos estviendo AQU, es El Ansia de Viajes, hijo y Hechos Que Han quedado demostrados. Como Siempre, Por Favor, párrafo convertidor Información del clima, solicito Tenga un bien La Misma justificar. Caso contrario, ejemplifiquen, no se consideren los números uno Todos con La Misma vara. Es Altamente ofensivo. Y definitivamente Es El Peor APORTE que Qué le Visto el párrafo de la ICANN. Saludos Alberto Soto ----- Mensaje original ----- De: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org] En Nombre de rok(a)bango.org.bb El Enviado: miércoles, 14 de Agosto de 2012 21:48 Para: lac-discuss-es(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP [[- Texto traducido (en -> es) -]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: rok(a)bango.org.bb Hay Gente Que QUIERE sin Coche párrafo Llevar UNA Carga de camin. Toda this Charla Sobre LACRALO servicio independiente es UNA tontera. Debemos Comenzar Con La razn Por La LACRALO Se estableci. No era de las Naciones Unidas o del club sin partido poltico. Se comenzcon El Objetivo especfico de conseguir de Entradas Caribe y Amrica Latina los Usuarios de Internet, no tarde en octubre para, para Salir Por sb Paseo Alegre. PARECE Que heno Que algunos quieren apropiarse de LACRALO párrafo Hacerlo he aquí Que o Queremos ser. De Cuando llegue ESE dÃa LACRALO ya no es Relevante al estilo de ICANN, espero Que los Pases del Caribe sÃ Renen y la peticin de la ICANN pÃ¡rrafo HACER Aportes Directos al estilo de la ICANN y de Los ngeles DEJAR pÃ¡rrafo continuar Su camino Feliz Hacia la nada. LACRALO ha Perdido El Foco y ha entrado en la ONU desierto poltico empinada, Donde Votar el favor de los FuncionÃ¡rios El Premio es ... y Donde las personajes en sÃ empujan Para Los cargamentos de SI SUS Vidas dependen de Ello. Deprimente! Corea del Sur ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Carlos Aguirre Dionisio El Enviado: Martes, 14 de Agosto 2012 10:25 Para: Carlton Samuels Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Mi querido Hermano: EN ESTA Oportunidad I can `t comparten Sex Sexo Race. Insisto en mi LACRALO es posicin: Independiente y Soberana. Como el usted DIJO EN SU (Mal, pÃ¡rrafo m) la interpretacin, LACRALO dar You can una las Normas sy en los Cambios La Misma, Por Lo Que sÃ Muestra Totalmente independiente, NO TIENE Que de respuesta a Nadie. This Frase es clara: "El Presente Memorando de entendimiento ("MOU") sÃ define sin acuerdo Entre las Organizaciones firmantes y Los CorporaciÃ³n para la AsignaciÃ³n de Nombres y NÃºmeros de Internet. Su IntenciÃ³n es establecer y DEFINIR Las Actividades Que se llevarÃ¡n un Cabo, La RegiÃ³n de AmÃ©rica Latina y El Regional del Caribe At-Large Gran OrganizaciÃ³n, Con El Apoyo de la ICANN ". ICANN es Otra OrganizaciÃ³n COMO SE Muestra En El parrafo anterior. Para Que RazÃ³n Por La Que Tienen las Naciones Unidas un memorando de entendimiento, PORQUE DOS del heno Organizaciones relacionadas Con El Presente Tipo de Contrato o acuerdo. ICANN sÃ Basa en la ley de California, ESO ES Cierto, Pero ESTO SÃLO afecta al estilo de RelaciÃ³n Con LACRALO, si LACRALO Alguna adoptar en contra de ESTA Directiva Cuerpo legal (ley de California). si no, un memorando de entendimiento Entre dos Organizaciones Diferentes Sigue vivo en La Fuerza. LACRALO this constituÃdo Por las Organizaciones, y El Ãrgano de Gobierno es GA, Cual Es Un delegado Por Cada OrganizaciÃ³n. Esta Es la ExplicaciÃ³n del "La firma de las Organizaciones", Sentencia. Ahora LACRALO Con El Apoyo de la ICANN, segun un memorando de entendimiento, Pero ESTO podria Change en El Futuro, y podria SEGUIR UNA siendo LACRALO OrganizaciÃ³n independiente, y El MÃ¡s Importante: ESTA era la idea. La idea de Desde El Principio era tener UNA OrganizaciÃ³n Independiente en AmÃ©rica Latina regiÃ³n Compuesta por bulerÃas Los Usuarios Finales, Que era de la MotivaciÃ³n de LACRALO.Nosotros no somos instancia de parte de la ICANN, Cual podria El servicio Sentido de la ESO? ICANN y El Modelo de multistackeholder No Hay necesidad de uniformidad. Y pÃ¡rrafo Construir sin Ecosistema Diverso y DemocrÃ¡tico de la ICANN necesita OPINIÃN Diferentes Diferente al estilo de GRUPOS de OpiniÃ³n. LACRALO es UNO de ELLOS, Compuesto Por Los Usuarios Finales Organizaciones de la RegiÃ³n de ALC. ICANN necesita de la ONU independiente LACRALO y Soberana. Mi OpiniÃ³n personal al respecto. Un Fuerte abrazo, Grande y Fuerte Para usted. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN El ex MIEMBRO de ALAC Por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 CÃ³rdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org De: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com Fecha: Lunes, 13 de Agosto 2012 12:41:48 -0500 Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Para: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org 08/10/2012 Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> : El Gobierno de Que No Se menciona el usted Propagador in ESTE CASO, porquÃ© tenemos UNA Norma EspecÃfica. n El Otro Lado Te LACRALO no es Parte de ICNN SÃLO tenemos a Una Memorando De Entendimiento Firmado, Pero de Que Independientes hijo de las Normas de ICNN. Saludos ================================ Mi hermano Carlos: consultÃ© la instancia de parte resaltada del Texto, segun la TraducciÃ³n. En Este Caso, Creo Que La InterpretaciÃ³n es incorrecta. Su InterpretaciÃ³n de LACRALO Que es "independiente" de las Normas de la ICANN es ampliamente Lugar en AmÃ©rica Latina. Sin lugar un Dudas, Creo QuÃ© es C El Responsable de Declaraciones cuentos de como "LACRALO es soberano ". Ahora, los abogados pueden y de Hecho no estan de acuerdo en la InterpretaciÃ³n de La Ley o Los Documentos. La Jurisprudencia confirmaciÃ³n this SituaciÃ³n. Anadir un this y en Este Contexto, Diferencias en las Historias y Mecanismos JurÃdicos de 'common law' InterpretaciÃ³n de La llamada de Los Countries Como en los Countries Del 'Derecho Civil' Frente Caribe predominando en AmÃ©rica Latina. Also es sin EJEMPLO perfecto y tal Otra Caso. PREMISA de la ICANN esta bien Definido en la Ley. Existe Como un "Beneficio PÃºblico" CorporaciÃ³n Bajo Las Leyes del Estado de California. CUANDO SE registro COMO UNA personalidad JurÃdica, sÃ presentaron SUS Textos de application Con El Estado.AEE Leyes bye-Presentado y Aceptado Por El Estado de California, en sÃ UNE y FORTALECE SUS unos, Operaciones Y Las Acciones. Por Esto significa Que las Acciones de la ICANN hijo SÃLO jurÃdica y Aplicable en la Medida Que es cumplir Con SUS Textos de application. PREMISA de LACRALO sÃ define Por El Memorando de Entendimiento Firmado Con la ICANN.Ese memorando de entendimiento en sÃ Sujeto al estilo de la ICANN ESTATUTOS, la ICANN no se You can HACER Acuerdos vinculantes Que hijo perjudicial pÃ¡rrafo SUS Textos de application. Este es Que El Texto describir El "Objeto y Ãmbito de aplicaciÃ³n "de LACRALO En El Memorando de Entendimiento Firmado Con La ICANN: "Este Memorando de Entendimiento (" MOU ") sÃ define las Naciones Unidas El acuerdo de Entre La Firma de Las Organizaciones Y La CorporaciÃ³n de AsignaciÃ³n De Nombres y NÃºmeros.Su proposito es establecer y DEFINIR Las Actividades Que se llevarÃ¡n un Cabo Por La AmÃ©rica Latina y El Caribe Regional At-Large Gran OrganizaciÃ³n, y Con El Apoyo de la ICANN ". Tenga en Cuenta El TÃ©rmino * "Las Organizaciones de firma" *. Esta aqui la definition de dicho "La firma de las Organizaciones ":" Las Organizaciones de la AmÃ©rica Latina y El Caribe, Certificado Por El ALAC de como At-Large Las Estructuras Que hijo de firmantes de Este Memorando de Entendimiento. ". Se Trata de la firma * Las Organizaciones *, es Decir, las ELA, Que Disfrutar de la JurÃdica RelaciÃ³n Con La ICANN. En OTRAS palabras, de LACRALO es puramente UNA Etiqueta Para La facilidad de Referencia, Que significa "Todos Nosotros, ELA, actuando Juntos ". El Requisito de CertificaciÃ³n de la ELA representantes Otro obstÃ¡culo.La POTENCIA un Aceptar y certificar la ELA SE CEDE A la ALAC un TravÃ©s de los Textos de APLICACIÃN de la ICANN. En OTRAS Palabras *, * no existe LACRALO ni You can Existir Ausencia de las Naciones Unidas Texto de APLICACIÃN de la ICANN Mandato de la AcciÃ³n de la ALAC. Los ESTADOS del Memorando de Entendimiento Con Claridad, los compromisos Conjuntos, ** individuales y solidariamente, de la En El contradictorio. El Memorando de Entendimiento, Firmado, SE UNE A LA ICANN una SEIS (6) los Con La LACRALO compromisos. ** Una Vez su, los etiquetados LACRALO ALS, es Decir, Todos Los Que El firmaron Memorando de Entendimiento, SE UNE Con \u200b\u200bNosotros, * y * solos solidariamente, unos CINCO (5) Acciones DISTINTAS, Junto Con ICANN en La bÃºsqueda de Nuestros compromisos Conjuntos. La Verdad Que es el heno de las Naciones Unidas abismo de Diferencia Entre la AmÃ©rica en general, Latina y El Caribe la ComprensiÃ³n del Significado de la "Soberana" de la Palabra En Su Contexto. Ya en 2006, hemos invitado y tuvo Intervenciones de la ICANN legal personal, pÃ¡rr explicar ESTO. Estoy En El expediente Varias Veces, tratando de alinear Los Hechos Con El Conocimiento general. Mi Ultima Vez FUE en Costa Rica. Yo estaba = a punto los Contenidos de las Naciones Unidas Documento Presentado ante la SecretarÃa y Comentarios en la Asamblea General.Y pÃ¡rrafo Problemas mal, fui Condenado COMO Naciones Unidas Mentiroso in varios conjuntos Lugares. Las Grabaciones y las Transcripciones estan DISPONIBLES pÃ¡rrafo aquellos que QuÃ© deseen Obtener MÃ¡s informaciÃ³n. Los Registros muestran Sooknanan Cintra, sin abogado, ha seÃ±alado also la mal USO de la Palabra. Asi tambien, lanza Hinds y El Rey de Roosevelt. > A partir de mi lectura de sus escritos e intervenciones, creo que FÃ¡tima > Cambronera entiende muy bien las diferencias. HACER ES Contexto de los Nombres y NÃºmeros de la PolÃtica de PromociÃ³n, Asesoramiento y Desarrollo es Informado y Limitado Por La firma Memorando de Entendimiento, Que un su Vez this Sujeto al estilo de Poderes y El Alcance otorgado Por La ICANN ESTATUTOS y El reglamento de LACRALO Procedimiento. You can LACRALO, SI ASI he aquÃ que decidir, Change SUS Reglas. El Proceso pÃ¡rrafo Hacerlo es describen en Su reglamento. E incluso si las Naciones Unidas HUBO Movimiento para Change Las Reglas de Procedure, Debe SEGUIR El Proceso Como tal sÃ define en Las Reglas. Los abogados y los Tribunales de las Naciones Unidas Tienen TÃ©rmino del latÃn, "ultra vires ", pÃ¡rr describir las Acciones a contrario sensu una las Normas establecidas. Esta aqui El Atractivo. You can change LACRALO no los Textos de APLICACIÃN de la ICANN.Y Por Lo Que cualquier Cambio de la Regla de Que menoscaba o inmundicias de Textos de la ICANN HarÃa application des LACRALO pÃcaro y Fuera de los parametros otorgados Por El Memorando de ICANN Entendimiento. Si ESTO Llega un suceder, CUALQUIERA de los signatarios del Memorando de Entendimiento, es Decir, cualquier ELA, TIENE de pie y sin Deber de diligencia de peticion de queja en Este Sentido. Y ICANN TIENE El Deber de respuesta y ACTUAR COMO EL Memorando de Entendimiento Y Su Texto de application sÃ una obligaciÃ³n Por Lo Que HACER. Mejor, - Carlton ============================== Carlton Samuels A MÃ³vil: 876-818-1799 Estrategia, PlanificaciÃ³n, Gobierno, EvaluaciÃ³n y Plazos ============================= _______________________________________________ [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/bbea053ac2.html --]]

1 0

Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP
by rok＠bango.org.bb Aug. 15, 2012

Aug. 15, 2012

[[--Translated text (en -> es)--]] Asunto: Re: RES: OP De: rok(a)bango.org.bb Hay gente que quiere un coche para llevar una carga de camión. Toda esta charla sobre LACRALO ser independiente es una tontería. Debemos comenzar con la razón por la LACRALO Se estableció. No era un club o un partido político. Se comenzó con el objetivo específico de conseguir entradas de Caribe y América Latina los usuarios de Internet, no para nosotros, para salir por algún paseo alegre. Parece que hay algunos que quieren apropiarse de LACRALO para hacerlo lo que queremos ser. Cuando llegue ese día y LACRALO ya no es relevante a la ICANN, espero que los países del Caribe se reúnen y la petición de la ICANN para hacer aportes directos a la ICANN y dejar Los Ángeles para continuar su camino feliz hacia la nada. LACRALO ha perdido el foco y ha entrado en un desierto político empinada, donde votar a favor de los funcionarios es el premio ... y donde las personas se empujan para los cargos de si sus vidas dependen de ello. Deprimente! Corea del Sur ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Carlos Aguirre Dionisio Enviado el: Martes, 14 de agosto 2012 10:25 Para: Carlton Samuels Cc: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Mi querido Hermano: En esta oportunidad I can `t comparten con usted. Insisto en mi LACRALO posición es: independiente y Soberana. Como usted dijo en su (Mal, para mí) la interpretación, LACRALO puede dar a las normas en sí y los cambios la misma, por lo que se muestra totalmente independiente, no tiene que responder a nadie. Esta frase es clara: "El presente Memorando de entendimiento ("MOU") se define un acuerdo entre las organizaciones firmantes y los CorporaciÃ³n para la AsignaciÃ³n de Nombres y NÃºmeros de Internet. Su intenciÃ³n es establecer y definir las actividades que se llevarÃ¡n a cabo, la regiÃ³n de AmÃ©rica Latina y el Regional del Caribe At-Large gran organizaciÃ³n, con el apoyo de la ICANN ". ICANN es otra organizaciÃ³n como se muestra en el pÃ¡rrafo anterior. Para que razÃ³n por la que tienen un memorando de entendimiento, porque hay dos organizaciones relacionadas con el presente tipo de contrato o acuerdo. ICANN se basa en la ley de California, eso es cierto, pero esto sÃ³lo afecta a la relaciÃ³n con LACRALO, si LACRALO adoptar alguna en contra de esta Directiva cuerpo legal (ley de California). si no, memorando de entendimiento entre dos organizaciones diferentes sigue vivo en la fuerza. LACRALO estÃ¡ constituido por las organizaciones, y el Ã³rgano de gobierno es GA, cual es un delegado por cada organizaciÃ³n. Esta es la explicaciÃ³n del "La firma de las organizaciones", sentencia. Ahora LACRALO con el apoyo de la ICANN, segÃºn memorando de entendimiento, pero esto podrÃa cambiar en el futuro, y podrÃa seguir siendo LACRALO una organizaciÃ³n independiente, y el mÃ¡s importante: esta era la idea. La idea desde el principio era tener una organizaciÃ³n independiente en AmÃ©rica Latina regiÃ³n compuesta por los usuarios finales, que era la motivaciÃ³n de LACRALO. Nosotros no somos parte de la ICANN, cual podrÃa ser el sentido de eso? ICANN y el modelo de multistackeholder no hay necesidad de uniformidad. Y para construir un ecosistema diverso y democrÃ¡tico de la ICANN necesita OPINIÃN diferentes a la diferente grupos de opiniÃ³n. LACRALO es uno de ellos, compuesto por los usuarios finales organizaciones de la regiÃ³n de ALC. ICANN necesita un independiente LACRALO y Soberana. Mi opiniÃ³n personal al respecto. Un fuerte abrazo, grande y fuerte para usted. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre NCA Consejo de la GNSO - ICANN el ex miembro de ALAC por LACRALO Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 CÃ³rdoba - Argentina - * 54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 http://ar.ageiadensi.org De: carlton.samuels @ gmail.com Fecha: Lunes, 13 de agosto 2012 12:41:48 -0500 Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-es] RES: OP Para: carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com CC: lac-discuss-en(a)atlarge-lists.icann.org 08/10/2012 Carlos Dionisio Aguirre <carlosaguirre62(a)hotmail.com> : El gobierno que usted menciona no se aplica en este caso, porque tenemos una norma especÃfica. n el otro lado Te LACRALO no es parte de ICNN sÃ³lo tenemos una Memorando de Entendimiento firmado, pero que son independientes de las normas de ICNN. Saludos ================================ Mi hermano Carlos: Consulte la parte resaltada del texto, segÃºn la traducciÃ³n. En este caso, creo que la interpretaciÃ³n es incorrecta. Su interpretaciÃ³n de que LACRALO es "independiente" de las normas de la ICANN es ampliamente lugar en AmÃ©rica Latina. Sin lugar a dudas, creo que es el responsable de declaraciones tales como "LACRALO es soberano". Ahora, los abogados pueden y de hecho no estÃ¡n de acuerdo en la interpretaciÃ³n de la ley o los documentos. La jurisprudencia confirma esta situaciÃ³n. AÃ±adir a esta y en este contexto, diferencias en las historias y mecanismos jurÃdicos de interpretaciÃ³n de la llamada 'Common law' los paÃses como en los paÃses 'derecho civil' del frente Caribe predominante en AmÃ©rica Latina. AquÃ es un ejemplo perfecto y tal otra caso. Premisa de la ICANN estÃ¡ bien definido en la ley. Existe como un 'beneficio pÃºblico' corporaciÃ³n bajo las leyes del estado de California. Cuando se registra como una persona jurÃdica, se presentaron sus textos de aplicaciÃ³n con el Estado. Esas leyes bye-presentado y aceptado por el Estado de California se une y fortalece a sus operaciones y las acciones. Esto significa que las acciones de ICANN son sÃ³lo legal y aplicable en la medida en que cumplir con sus textos de aplicaciÃ³n. Premisa de LACRALO se define por el Memorando de Entendimiento firmado con la ICANN.Ese memorando de entendimiento se sujeto a la ICANN estatutos; ICANN no puede hacer acuerdos vinculantes que son perjudicial para sus textos de aplicaciÃ³n. Este es el texto que describe el "Objeto y Ãmbito de aplicaciÃ³n" de LACRALO en el Memorando de Entendimiento firmado con la ICANN: "Este Memorando de Entendimiento (" MOU ") se define un acuerdo entre el La firma de las organizaciones y la CorporaciÃ³n de AsignaciÃ³n de Nombres y NÃºmeros. Su propÃ³sito es establecer y definir las actividades que se llevarÃ¡n a cabo por la AmÃ©rica Latina y el Caribe Regional At-Large gran organizaciÃ³n, y con el apoyo de la ICANN ". Tenga en cuenta el tÃ©rmino * "Las organizaciones de firma" *. AquÃ estÃ¡ la definiciÃ³n de dicho "La firma de las Organizaciones": "Las organizaciones de la AmÃ©rica Latina y el Caribe, certificado por el ALAC como At-Large Las estructuras que son firmantes de este MOU. ". Se trata de la firma * las organizaciones *, es decir, las ALS, que disfrutar de la jurÃdica relaciÃ³n con la ICANN. En otras palabras, LACRALO es puramente una etiqueta para la facilidad de referencia, que significa "todos nosotros, ALS, actuando juntos". El requisito de certificaciÃ³n de ALS representa otro obstÃ¡culo.La potencia a aceptar y certificar ALS se cede a la ALAC a travÃ©s de los textos de aplicaciÃ³n de la ICANN. En otras palabras, * LACRALO * no existe ni puede existir ausencia de un texto de aplicaciÃ³n de la ICANN mandato de la acciÃ³n de la ALAC. Los estados del Memorando de Entendimiento con claridad los compromisos conjuntos, * * individual y solidariamente, de la partes en Ã©l. El Memorando de Entendimiento, firmado, se une a la ICANN a seis (6) los compromisos con la LACRALO * *. A su vez, los etiquetados LACRALO ALS, es decir, todos los que firmaron el Memorando de Entendimiento, se une con nosotros, * y * solos solidariamente, a cinco (5) acciones distintas, junto con ICANN en la bÃºsqueda de nuestros compromisos conjuntos. La verdad es que hay un abismo de diferencia entre la AmÃ©rica en general Latina y el Caribe la comprensiÃ³n del significado de la "soberana" de la palabra en su contexto. Ya en 2006, hemos invitado y tuvo intervenciones de la ICANN legal personal para explicar esto. Estoy en el expediente varias veces, tratando de alinear los hechos con el conocimiento general. Mi Ãºltima vez fue en Costa Rica. Yo estaba respondiendo a los contenidos de un documento presentado ante la SecretarÃa y comentarios en la Asamblea General.Y para mis problemas, fui condenado como un mentiroso en varios lugares. Las grabaciones y las transcripciones estÃ¡n disponibles para aquellos que deseen obtener mÃ¡s informaciÃ³n. Los registros muestran Sooknanan Cintra, un abogado, tambiÃ©n ha seÃ±alado la mal uso de la palabra. AsÃ tambiÃ©n, Lance Hinds y el rey de Roosevelt. > A partir de mi lectura de sus escritos e intervenciones, creo que FÃ¡tima > Cambronera entiende muy bien las diferencias. LACRALO no es ni puede ser "soberano". Todo lo que podrÃa desear hacer en contexto de los nombres y nÃºmeros de la polÃtica de promociÃ³n, asesoramiento y desarrollo es informado y limitado por la firma Memorando de Entendimiento, que a su vez estÃ¡ sujeto a la poderes y el alcance otorgado por la ICANN estatutos y el Reglamento de LACRALO Procedimiento. LACRALO puede, si asÃ lo decide, cambiar sus reglas. El proceso para hacerlo es describe en su Reglamento. E incluso si hubo un movimiento para cambiar las reglas de procedimiento, debe seguir el proceso tal como se define en las reglas. Los abogados y los tribunales tienen un tÃ©rmino del latÃn, "ultra vires", para describir las acciones contrario a las normas establecidas. AquÃ estÃ¡ el atractivo. LACRALO no puede cambiar los textos de aplicaciÃ³n de la ICANN. Y por lo que cualquier cambio de la regla de que menoscaba o inmundicias de ICANN textos de aplicaciÃ³n harÃa un LACRALO pÃcaro y fuera de los parÃ¡metros otorgados por el ICANN Memorando de Entendimiento. Si esto llega a suceder, cualquiera de los signatarios del Memorando de Entendimiento, es decir, cualquier ELA, tiene de pie y un deber de diligencia de peticiÃ³n de queja en este sentido. Y ICANN tiene el deber de responder y actuar como el Memorando de Entendimiento y su texto de aplicaciÃ³n se obliga a por lo que hacer. Mejor, - Carlton ============================== Carlton Samuels A MÃ³vil: 876-818-1799 Estrategia, PlanificaciÃ³n, Gobierno, EvaluaciÃ³n y plazos ============================= _______________________________________________ [[--Original text (en) http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/c34c4d2cf3.html --]]

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