What are the main things to do in UASG?
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
wfm *From:* Christian Dawson [mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com] *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 12:23 PM *To:* Ram Mohan SMTP *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
I'd agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: "International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change." From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'd agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: “International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change.” From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I’d agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Agree entirely with Michele! Tony Harris On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:03 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight < michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ------------------------------ *From:* Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] *Sent:* 16 February 2015 21:43 *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
“International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change.”
*From:* ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Michele Neylon - Blacknight *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM *To:* Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I’d agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key
Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Social: http://mneylon.social
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From:* ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Nelson, Nick *Sent:* 16 February 2015 17:39 *To:* Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ------------------------------
*From:* ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM *To:* Ram Mohan SMTP *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
Team,
Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership
2. Group structure and charter
3. Definition of problem space
4. Prioritization of problem space
5. Definition of approach to problem spaces
6. Delegation of work
7. Execution of work
8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ram Mohan
Executive Vice President & CTO
Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India
o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701
Skype: gliderpilot30
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue. So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community. That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 _____ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: "International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change." From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'd agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" _____ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
I'm very much with Edmon on this (which is why my initial draft focused on internationalized strings). But hopefully my new working will represent the entire problem space a little better... From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 5:13 PM To: 'Michele Neylon - Blacknight'; Mark Svancarek; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue. So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community. That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: "International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change." From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'd agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
I agree that IDN should be the primary focus. It is the most challenging, interesting and rewarding. As the iDN issues are resolved, the ASCII Domain Names should, more or less, fall into place André Schappo On 17 Feb 2015, at 01:13, Edmon Chung wrote: I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue. So as a “moral high ground” if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the “primary” focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community. That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: “International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change.” From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I’d agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30 马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫 http://twitter.com/andreschappo http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk http://weibo.com/andreschappo http://blog.sina.com.cn/andreschappo
Edmon I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this. If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs. Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator. I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue. So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community. That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: "International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change." From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'd agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Edmon: While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc. It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be. mark Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Edmon I’m sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this. If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they’re not going to be motivated by IDNs. Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator. I also don’t think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I’m not convinced that they’re the ones who need the most rallying. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue. So as a “moral high ground” if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the “primary” focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community. That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: “International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change.” From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I’d agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30 ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ________________________________________________________________________
Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I’m sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they’re not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don’t think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I’m not convinced that they’re the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a “moral high ground” if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the “primary” focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
“International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change.”
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I’d agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ________________________________________________________________________
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com
Thanks, Rich--I think you make this point nicely. The point of universal acceptance is just that--all domain names (and e-mail addresses) should work roughly equivalently everywhere. Although IDNs may pose some unique challenges, I think it's a mistake to break down the mission into separate tracks or separate prioritizations at this stage. At first glance, many bad behaviors (e.g., "no TLDs can be longer than six characters") will affect both IDN and ASCII TLDs equally, and these problems are equally worthy of being worked on as issues that affect either IDNs or ASCII domain names (or, for that matter, issues that are unique to EAI). More generally, I'd like to add some concurrence to a point hat Kurt made--as our letter captured, we're trying to set up a steering committee which will help coordinate a wide variety of different work efforts, some of which will need to be spun up by this effort and others that will just need to be recognized in order to avoid de-duplication. We don't need to get the mission perfectly right immediately, other than in the broadest strokes, and I'd hate to see us get off to an overly narrow goal right off the bat if the overall imperative here is to serve as a general coordinating body. Jordyn On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Richard Merdinger <rmerdinger@godaddy.com> wrote:
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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As a registry operator of two delegated IDNs, there is no doubt that IDNs offer their own unique set of challenges to be addressed. With that said, I agree with previous comments by others that UA is not just an IDN issue, but an overall "domain" issue. For one, getting all search engines to index all of the delegated new gTLDs would be be a start. *Mr. Pinky Brand * VP Strategy & Partner Relations *柏平凯* 副总裁（注册商关系） 域通联达 中文新顶级域名市场领航者 *The essential new Chinese TLDs* 北京 | 香港 | 赫尔辛基 | 纽约 | 奥斯汀 | 奥斯陆 Beijing | Hong Kong | Helsinki | New York | Austin | Oslo *USA:* +1 512 402 3095 (-6:00 GMT) *China:* +86 132 9610 5021 *Hong Kong:* +852 5464 8170 *Ireland:* +353 1 442 8409 pinky.brand@internetregistry.info @pinkybrand On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jordyn Buchanan <jordyn@google.com> wrote:
Thanks, Rich--I think you make this point nicely. The point of universal acceptance is just that--all domain names (and e-mail addresses) should work roughly equivalently everywhere. Although IDNs may pose some unique challenges, I think it's a mistake to break down the mission into separate tracks or separate prioritizations at this stage. At first glance, many bad behaviors (e.g., "no TLDs can be longer than six characters") will affect both IDN and ASCII TLDs equally, and these problems are equally worthy of being worked on as issues that affect either IDNs or ASCII domain names (or, for that matter, issues that are unique to EAI).
More generally, I'd like to add some concurrence to a point hat Kurt made--as our letter captured, we're trying to set up a steering committee which will help coordinate a wide variety of different work efforts, some of which will need to be spun up by this effort and others that will just need to be recognized in order to avoid de-duplication. We don't need to get the mission perfectly right immediately, other than in the broadest strokes, and I'd hate to see us get off to an overly narrow goal right off the bat if the overall imperative here is to serve as a general coordinating body.
Jordyn
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Richard Merdinger <rmerdinger@godaddy.com
wrote:
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com
Echoing everyone elses concerns. I think back a lot to Ira Magaziners statement about being humble and not forgetting the impact that domains have on developing countries globally. Those will include both IDN and ASCII, and I'd reckon that UA is a huge issue in these developing countries. I like the term "Universal Acceptance" for what it is. If we focus on IDN we'll turn off a lot of North America/Europe, we're struggling enough to get ASCII's accepted (looking at you Skype!) ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Pinky Brand [TLD Registry Ltd] [pinky.brand@internetregistry.info] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 8:33 AM To: Jordyn Buchanan Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? As a registry operator of two delegated IDNs, there is no doubt that IDNs offer their own unique set of challenges to be addressed. With that said, I agree with previous comments by others that UA is not just an IDN issue, but an overall "domain" issue. For one, getting all search engines to index all of the delegated new gTLDs would be be a start. Mr. Pinky Brand VP Strategy & Partner Relations 柏平凯 副总裁（注册商关系） 域通联达 [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/145935004/tld%20registry%20english%20log...] 中文新顶级域名市场领航者 The essential new Chinese TLDs 北京 | 香港 | 赫尔辛基 | 纽约 | 奥斯汀 | 奥斯陆 Beijing | Hong Kong | Helsinki | New York | Austin | Oslo USA: +1 512 402 3095 (-6:00 GMT) China: +86 132 9610 5021 Hong Kong: +852 5464 8170 Ireland: +353 1 442 8409 pinky.brand@internetregistry.info<mailto:pinky.brand@internetregistry.info> @pinkybrand On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jordyn Buchanan <jordyn@google.com<mailto:jordyn@google.com>> wrote: Thanks, Rich--I think you make this point nicely. The point of universal acceptance is just that--all domain names (and e-mail addresses) should work roughly equivalently everywhere. Although IDNs may pose some unique challenges, I think it's a mistake to break down the mission into separate tracks or separate prioritizations at this stage. At first glance, many bad behaviors (e.g., "no TLDs can be longer than six characters") will affect both IDN and ASCII TLDs equally, and these problems are equally worthy of being worked on as issues that affect either IDNs or ASCII domain names (or, for that matter, issues that are unique to EAI). More generally, I'd like to add some concurrence to a point hat Kurt made--as our letter captured, we're trying to set up a steering committee which will help coordinate a wide variety of different work efforts, some of which will need to be spun up by this effort and others that will just need to be recognized in order to avoid de-duplication. We don't need to get the mission perfectly right immediately, other than in the broadest strokes, and I'd hate to see us get off to an overly narrow goal right off the bat if the overall imperative here is to serve as a general coordinating body. Jordyn On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Richard Merdinger <rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>> wrote: While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100<tel:319.530.4100> -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207792%20276%20904> Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105<tel:%2B44%20%280%29%2020%207558%208105> Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto:rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103<tel:%2B1.215.706.5700%20x103>; m: +1.215.431.0958<tel:%2B1.215.431.0958>; f: +1.215.706.5701<tel:%2B1.215.706.5701> Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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+1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com
I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
+1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club Website: www.nic.club Twitter: @sass @getDotClub Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com
Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don
On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club Twitter: @sass <http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub <http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!
From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) <mailto:Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) <mailto:Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com <mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com <http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
--- Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom. http://www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/>
Don, Thanks for this useful insight. Would it be possible for you to confirm call details for tomorrow? I have three requests for conference calls to be confirmed for tomorrow and am holding until I hear from the UASG which has my priority. Thanks Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Don Hollander <don@i2.org.nz> wrote:
Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute.
The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time.
The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent.
Don
On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
*Jeffrey Sas*s, CMO *.CLUB Domains, LLC* Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club Website: www.nic.club Twitter: @sass <http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub <http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
*PLEASE NOTE*: *I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!*
------------------------------ *From:* Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) *Sent:* Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM *To:* Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) *Subject*: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
+1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org]
On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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Thanks Tony. A more formal notice with an agenda out in a bit over an hour, but the UASG is on as originally advised in Singapore. Universal Acceptance Steering Group – Conference Call 16:00 UTC – Wednesday 18 February 2015 Remote participation information is as follows. Adobe Connect room: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/universalacceptance <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/universalacceptance> Phone access numbers: http://tinyurl.com/nfjy5z5 <http://tinyurl.com/nfjy5z5> Access code: 2839402851
On 18/02/2015, at 10:43 am, Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com> wrote:
Don,
Thanks for this useful insight.
Would it be possible for you to confirm call details for tomorrow? I have three requests for conference calls to be confirmed for tomorrow and am holding until I hear from the UASG which has my priority.
Thanks
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Don Hollander <don@i2.org.nz <mailto:don@i2.org.nz>> wrote: Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute.
The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time.
The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent.
Don
On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club <http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass <http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub <http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!
From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) <mailto:Anthony+Harris+(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) <mailto:Ram+Mohan+(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org+(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com <mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com <http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club> > wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club <http://www.nic.club> Twitter: @sass <http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub <http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! _____ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) <mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) <mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> > wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> ] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com <mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com <http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com> ] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia> ] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> <mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> <mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com> ] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> <mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> <mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> <mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> <mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> <mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> <mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com> ] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> <mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> <mailto: rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> >> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
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Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much.
Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen.
I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US).
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute.
The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time.
The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent.
Don
On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club Website: www.nic.club Twitter: @sass @getDotClub Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!
From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
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Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don
On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org> wrote:
Regarding prioritization of IDNs:
In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience.
If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way.
Kurt
We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote:
Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much.
Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen.
I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US).
Edmon
<> From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute.
The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time.
The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent.
Don
On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club <mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club <http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass <http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub <http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!
From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) <mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) <mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com <mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com <mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com <http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ <http://www.blacknight.host/> http://blog.blacknight.com/ <http://blog.blacknight.com/> http://www.blacknight.press <http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social <http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
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Here's how I think of the functionality: Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service... * Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls * Can correctly render International strings * Can correctly render RTL strings * Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 * Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 * Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) * Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) * Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service... * Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls * Can correctly render International strings * Can correctly render RTL strings * Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 * Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 * Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) * Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) * Can send email to recipients with such email address * Can receive email from senders with such email address * Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address * Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>> wrote: Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to "give special attention to" IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO's hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I'm not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don't feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There's the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club<http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass<http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub<http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! ________________________________ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)<mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)<mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com<http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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great points！ especially for email address part！ From my phone
在 2015年2月19日，8:32，Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com> 写道：
Here’s how I think of the functionality:
Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length
Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Can send email to recipients with such email address · Can receive email from senders with such email address · Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Or, we could slice it by functionality:
- Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry.
Don
On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org> wrote:
Regarding prioritization of IDNs:
In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience.
If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way.
Kurt
We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much.
Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen.
I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US).
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute.
The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time.
The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent.
Don
On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club Website: www.nic.club Twitter: @sass @getDotClub Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!
From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. However, InterConnect makes no warranty that this email is virus-free. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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I think this is a great list. I would add: * can correctly recognize all URLs regardless of Top Level Domain. I think it's important to be very clear with this bullet. Too many software providers use regex that identify links poorly. NN *Sent from my iphone - (253) 350-2537 On Feb 18, 2015, at 16:33, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Here’s how I think of the functionality: Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Can send email to recipients with such email address · Can receive email from senders with such email address · Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>> wrote: Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club<http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass<http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub<http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! ________________________________ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)<mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)<mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com<http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
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Sounds good. Where shall we maintain this list? From: Nelson, Nick [mailto:nicknels@amazon.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 7:42 PM To: Mark Svancarek Cc: Don Hollander; Kurt Pritz; UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I think this is a great list. I would add: * can correctly recognize all URLs regardless of Top Level Domain. I think it's important to be very clear with this bullet. Too many software providers use regex that identify links poorly. NN *Sent from my iphone - (253) 350-2537 On Feb 18, 2015, at 16:33, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Here's how I think of the functionality: Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service... * Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls * Can correctly render International strings * Can correctly render RTL strings * Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 * Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 * Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) * Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) * Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service... * Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls * Can correctly render International strings * Can correctly render RTL strings * Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 * Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 * Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) * Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) * Can send email to recipients with such email address * Can receive email from senders with such email address * Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address * Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>> wrote: Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to "give special attention to" IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO's hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I'm not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don't feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There's the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club<http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass<http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub<http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! ________________________________ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)<mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)<mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com<http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
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There is wiki that can be used for this purpose at https://community.icann.org/display/TUA/TLD+Universal+Acceptance+Home Just an idea ... -- Francisco. On 2/19/15, 9:49 AM, "Mark Svancarek" <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Sounds good. Where shall we maintain this list? From: Nelson, Nick [mailto:nicknels@amazon.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 7:42 PM To: Mark Svancarek Cc: Don Hollander; Kurt Pritz; UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I think this is a great list. I would add: * can correctly recognize all URLs regardless of Top Level Domain. I think it's important to be very clear with this bullet. Too many software providers use regex that identify links poorly. NN *Sent from my iphone - (253) 350-2537 On Feb 18, 2015, at 16:33, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Here’s how I think of the functionality: Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Can send email to recipients with such email address · Can receive email from senders with such email address · Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length From:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>> wrote: Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club<http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass<http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub<http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! ________________________________ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)<mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)<mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com<http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
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Excellent, thanks! From: Francisco Arias [mailto:francisco.arias@icann.org] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:53 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick Cc: Kurt Pritz; UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? There is wiki that can be used for this purpose at https://community.icann.org/display/TUA/TLD+Universal+Acceptance+Home Just an idea ... -- Francisco. On 2/19/15, 9:49 AM, "Mark Svancarek" <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Sounds good. Where shall we maintain this list? From: Nelson, Nick [mailto:nicknels@amazon.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 7:42 PM To: Mark Svancarek Cc: Don Hollander; Kurt Pritz; UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I think this is a great list. I would add: * can correctly recognize all URLs regardless of Top Level Domain. I think it's important to be very clear with this bullet. Too many software providers use regex that identify links poorly. NN *Sent from my iphone - (253) 350-2537 On Feb 18, 2015, at 16:33, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Here’s how I think of the functionality: Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Can send email to recipients with such email address · Can receive email from senders with such email address · Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length From:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>> wrote: Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club<http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass<http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub<http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! ________________________________ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)<mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)<mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com<http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
______________________________________________________________________ __ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. ______________________________________________________________________ __
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+1 The Translation & Transliteration of Contact Information PDP WG has been using a similar Confluence wiki and I can thoroughly recommend the platform – very easy to structure information and link out to information on other sites. Regards, Chris. -- Research Associate in Linguistic Computing, Centre for Digital Humanities, UCL, Gower St, London WC1E 6BT Tel +44 20 7679 1599 (int 31599) www.ucl.ac.uk/dis/people/chrisdillon From: Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> Date: Thursday, 19 February 2015 17:54 To: Francisco Arias <francisco.arias@icann.org<mailto:francisco.arias@icann.org>>, "Nelson, Nick" <nicknels@amazon.com<mailto:nicknels@amazon.com>> Cc: Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>>, "UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>" <ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Excellent, thanks! From: Francisco Arias [mailto:francisco.arias@icann.org] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 9:53 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick Cc: Kurt Pritz; UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? There is wiki that can be used for this purpose at https://community.icann.org/display/TUA/TLD+Universal+Acceptance+Home Just an idea ... -- Francisco. On 2/19/15, 9:49 AM, "Mark Svancarek" <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Sounds good. Where shall we maintain this list? From: Nelson, Nick [mailto:nicknels@amazon.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 7:42 PM To: Mark Svancarek Cc: Don Hollander; Kurt Pritz; UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I think this is a great list. I would add: * can correctly recognize all URLs regardless of Top Level Domain. I think it's important to be very clear with this bullet. Too many software providers use regex that identify links poorly. NN *Sent from my iphone - (253) 350-2537 On Feb 18, 2015, at 16:33, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Here’s how I think of the functionality: Whenever Internet domain names, URIs, URLs, IRIs and/or file paths are used/expected, the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length Regarding any email address which includes Unicode characters (whether TLD, n-level domain name, and/or username ), the product or service… · Allows entry of international chars into UI input controls · Can correctly render International strings · Can correctly render RTL strings · Can communicate data between apps and services in formats which support Unicode and are convertible to/from UTF-8 · Offers public APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 · Offers private APIs which support Unicode & UTF-8 (these private APIs apply only to inter-service calls by the same vendor) · Stores user data values as a type which allows Unicode and is convertible to/from UTF-8 (visible only to the product/service owner) · Can send email to recipients with such email address · Can receive email from senders with such email address · Supports accounts associated with both an ASCII and Unicode email address · Supports all domain name strings in the Public Suffix List regardless of length From:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:51 PM To: Kurt Pritz Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Or, we could slice it by functionality: - Validation on data entry - usually of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of an e-mail address - Storage & display characteristics of a URL - including a name server entry. Don On 18/02/2015, at 6:39 pm, Kurt Pritz <kpritz@thedna.org<mailto:kpritz@thedna.org>> wrote: Regarding prioritization of IDNs: In practice: I think the way that this will play out is that there will mostly independent technical work streams for IDNs, IDN email and ASCII issues. Each will go as fast as it can and will not get in the way of the other. Then, it will become important to match the messaging of each stream with the target audience. If there are ever contention over resources or messaging we can manage it at the time it occurs. I have seen how passionate people are on each of these streams and believe that they can all be managed in an expedited way. Kurt We are all passionate about all three streams. On Feb 18, 2015, at 4:00 PM, "Edmon Chung" <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Agree with Rich on taking this as a domain issue irrespective of IDN/cc/g Based on what Rich and Don said, I think it is important that we do not try to isolate IDN too much. Past experience have told us that what may sound like a good idea to “give special attention to” IDN turns out rendering it into a second class citizen. I think IDN Readiness should be incorporated into every work stream as a priority item even if it is not the spotlight feature (as for example for messaging in the US). Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:50 AM To: Jeffrey Sass Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Let me put my CIO’s hat on and contribute. The expensive part of making a change to a system is the initial touching of it. If I end up touching it twice to deal with length of TLDs in one pass and IDNs in a second pass, I’m not going to be too thrilled. But making clear from the beginning that there are a number of changes to the TLD environment that need to be catered for then I will deal with them all at once. But don’t feed them to me one at a time. The actual code changes are relatively small parts of the project budget. There’s the scoping, analysis and testing - particularly testing - and documentation and training where the big dollars are spent. Don On 18/02/2015, at 7:52 am, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club>> wrote: Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all! Jeffrey Sass, CMO .CLUB Domains, LLC Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club<mailto:jeff@nic.club> Website: www.nic.club<http://www.nic.club/> Twitter: @sass<http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub<http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass PLEASE NOTE: I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks! ________________________________ From: Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com)<mailto:Anthony%20Harris%20(anthonyrharris@gmail.com)> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info)<mailto:Ram%20Mohan%20(rmohan@afilias.info)> Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org)<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org%20(ua-discuss@icann.org)> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this. Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: +1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue. My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort. Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger@godaddy.com> s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100 -----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Dear all, Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised. Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com<mailto:MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com> Web: http://www.icc-uk.com<http://www.icc-uk.com/>
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press<http://www.blacknight.press/> - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social<http://mneylon.social/> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org><mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org><mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info><mailto: rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
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Hi everybody, I see many coherent and appropriate suggestions cascading into this steering group e-mail list. While it is of course important to define the structure and objectives of the SG, I would simply like to mention some background issues and opportunities that we should keep in mind. 1. UA is an urgent issue. It concerns a host of new TLDs that are already operational, with many more to come over the next few months. So the problems of UA that we seek to resolve, are ALREADY HAPPENING. One important objective for new gTLD registries, is that their new identifiers be used by the registrants, e.g. a website previously identified by a legacy TLD, now utilize the new TLD as the address of the website. If there are resolution problems, that will deter this from happening. 2. The software development sector has many communities, one way to get to them massively and quickly is via key associations, and one possible way to scale interest would be to set up certification (e.g. 'DNS compliant') A good entity to talk to would be COMPTIA. 3. The ISP sector is uniquely positioned to spearhead the outreach efforts, due to presence in all regions, serving all Internet users of any sort or nature. It is also of key interest to the ISP industry to have UA resolved asap, since non-resolving traffic with new TLDs will result in trouble tickets at the ISP Call Centers. The ISPCP has decided to contribute regional leaders to the UASG proceedings. 4. For starters, we have access to a goldmine of information on UA, which are the problems the new registries are encountering on a daily basis. Collecting these complaints with specific problem data would point us to a lot of doorbells we need to ring, and also enable technical determination of the various software products/components that are involved. 5. Thought must be given as to who rings doorbells, and in the name of what entity or Task Force they will introduce themselves in order to be taken seriously. 6. Comments have been made on the foreseeable reluctance of software developers/providers to consider UA worth the cost of fixing the problem. I think we should avoid seeing ourselves as apologetic and seeking a favour from them. The Internet is a whole, including all addressing components, and any system interacting with live Internet traffic should adapt to the evolving DNS if it considers itself as Internet compatible. New developments and products on the net usually require investment. This is one of them... Just some thoughts to keep in mind... Tony Harris On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Jeffrey Sass <jeff@nic.club> wrote:
Chiming in, I agree with Rich. UA should be for all domain names, as even legacy TLD's (.Travel, due to length, for instance) may have issues in certain systems. I am also hyper-sensitive to make sure we do not send a message that new TLD's are not ready for prime time by highlighting problems specific to them. The goal, as Richard stated, should be to achieve Universal Acceptance of all domain names, regardless of the flavor of the extension, or the language/character set of the string. Thanks all!
*Jeffrey Sas*s, CMO *.CLUB Domains, LLC* Direct: (+1) 954-256-9334 Mobile: (+1) 970-367-7277 E-Mail: jeff@nic.club Website: www.nic.club Twitter: @sass <http://www.twitter.com/sass> @getDotClub <http://www.twitter.com/getDotClub> Skype, Hangouts: jwsass
*PLEASE NOTE*: *I am only checking email 2-3 times per day. If something is time sensitive (really time sensitive) please message me or text me at the mobile number above. Thanks!*
------------------------------ *From:* Anthony Harris (anthonyrharris@gmail.com) *Sent:* Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM *To:* Ram Mohan (rmohan@afilias.info) *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org (ua-discuss@icann.org) *Subject*: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I also agree with this.
Tony Harris
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
+1. This is not an IDN, ngTLD or TLD issue.
-----Original Message----- From: Richard Merdinger [mailto: rmerdinger@godaddy.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:21 AM To: Dusan Stojicevic; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger VP, Domains e: rmerdinger@godaddy.com s: richard.merdinger m: 319.530.4100
-----Original Message----- From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org]
On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele. IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept. Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards, Dušan Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
Edmon:
While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
mark
Mark McFadden Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance InterConnect Communications
Mobile: +44 (0) 7792 276 904 Skype: McElmside or +44 (0) 20 7558 8105 Email: MarkMcFadden@icc-uk.com Web: http://www.icc-uk.com
InterConnect Communications Ltd, Merlin House, Station Road, Chepstow, NP16 5PB, United Kingdom. Registered in England and Wales, company registration no. 1828673. ________________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [ michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Edmon
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: Edmon Chung [mailto: edmon@registry.asia] Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP' Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Mark
That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [ marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
As a starter:
"International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'd agree with Nick
Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto: UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info<mailto: rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
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Good point :) take 2: "New top-level domains are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services, in spite of resources such as the Public Suffix List <www.publicsuffix.org>. International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are also inconsistently managed, either from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. The ongoing roll-out of new TLDs by ICANN, the democratization of computing, and the increased percentage of TLDs which are internationalized will likely upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change." From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight [mailto:michele@blacknight.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 5:03 PM To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Mark That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN. So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see IDNs as being the primary focus Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: Mark Svancarek [marksv@microsoft.com] Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick. As a starter: "International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs. Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo. A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change." From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'd agree with Nick Defining the problem should be key Everything else comes after that Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39 To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on. What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point. So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by. C
On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com> wrote:
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Yes, from my point of view, the charter etc. should provide the rationale for why we gather, and what we want to focus our attention on (ie., what problem are we solving). #3 below, Defining the problem space, in my opinion, is to get to the next levels of detail, and to provide structure and detail so we may get to prioritizing, etc. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30 *From:* Christian Dawson [mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com] *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 12:45 PM *To:* Nelson, Nick *Cc:* Ram Mohan SMTP; UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on. What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point. So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by. C On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com> wrote: I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ------------------------------ *From:* ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] *Sent:* Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM *To:* Ram Mohan SMTP *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
And, of course, we should have enough flexibility to change structure as we move through the project. In the letter to the ICANN Board, a very long (10 year) horizon was set. During that ten years some progress will occur (I hope some material progress will be seen in the next twelve months) As progress occurs, then the program should be revised from time to time to make sure that we’re focusing the right resources in the right area. As I’ve talked to people over the past twelve months about this issue, it is clear that it is BIG but not particularly difficult. The past four weeks of discussion has shown it is really big, but achievable. It will be good to get some idea of what successful milestones look like. Don
On 17/02/2015, at 7:53 am, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
Yes, from my point of view, the charter etc. should provide the rationale for why we gather, and what we want to focus our attention on (ie., what problem are we solving).
#3 below, Defining the problem space, in my opinion, is to get to the next levels of detail, and to provide structure and detail so we may get to prioritizing, etc.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
From: Christian Dawson [mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:45 PM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: Ram Mohan SMTP; UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on.
What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point.
So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by.
C
On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com <mailto:nicknels@amazon.com>> wrote:
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter: a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than "vice" chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff) As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following: A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate. Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we're here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I'm taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need" in the draft Charter I'm taking first draft on. What we'll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it's various components and stakeholders. I think that's a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point. So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need" sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by. C On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com <mailto:nicknels@amazon.com> > wrote: I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" _____ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com> ] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> > wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Thank you Edmon. This is great stuff and I will incorporate it into the initial draft I’m working on. Could I ask for a pause on Charter for the whole group for 48 hours so that I can get this into a format that we can discuss as a group? I need that time for some foundational work. Otherwise it’ll be tough for me to edit in all the good ideas we’ll come up with like these. -Christian
On Feb 16, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter:
a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives
b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than “vice” chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce
c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff)
As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following:
A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress
Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate.
Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted.
Edmon
<> From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on.
What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point.
So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by.
C
On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com <mailto:nicknels@amazon.com>> wrote:
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Thanks Edmon. Some comments: I would like to see some group look at measurement and possibly some certification of compliance. By having a well considered measure of compliance, we can test the situation today and every six months (or so) and we can do this both globally and within each geographic region as well as within relevant industry sectors. I also wonder what industry bodies are looking at these issues, if any. There are some topics that are not covered in RFCs but have been/are being determined by individual developers. It would be useful, I think, to have forum for discussion. I think your task force would also benefit from a technical group that provides technical solutions for people who need to actually fix the code. This could include documentation of the issues and solutions aimed at: Software Engineer; Systems Architect; CIO. Somewhere else there needs to be information prepared for CEOs and Sales & Marketing Executives. And, as you suggest, related but more targeted messages to other groups. I also hope that we find anoint UA Ambassadors that can take the message to their circles of influence - be that geographic, industry, technology, or whatever. (Local Rotary Groups?) We need to make sure that they are well versed and well equipped. Training for these folks, where possible, can happen at an ICANN Meeting. Don
On 17/02/2015, at 1:50 pm, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter:
a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives
b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than “vice” chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce
c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff)
As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following:
A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress
Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate.
Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted.
Edmon
<> From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on.
What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point.
So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by.
C
On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com <mailto:nicknels@amazon.com>> wrote:
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Agree that measurement is a key initiative, and included in my scope and as Taskforce E (sorry the previous note was a bit cryptic on that perhaps :-D). I see measurement both as a way to evaluate “readiness” (I do not think “compliance” is the right way to characterize it, perhaps that is somewhat my own perception as it is affected by ICANN compliance), as well as to track overall progress. Edmon From: Don Hollander [mailto:don.hollander@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:45 AM To: Edmon Chung Cc: Christian Dawson; Nelson, Nick; UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Thanks Edmon. Some comments: I would like to see some group look at measurement and possibly some certification of compliance. By having a well considered measure of compliance, we can test the situation today and every six months (or so) and we can do this both globally and within each geographic region as well as within relevant industry sectors. I also wonder what industry bodies are looking at these issues, if any. There are some topics that are not covered in RFCs but have been/are being determined by individual developers. It would be useful, I think, to have forum for discussion. I think your task force would also benefit from a technical group that provides technical solutions for people who need to actually fix the code. This could include documentation of the issues and solutions aimed at: Software Engineer; Systems Architect; CIO. Somewhere else there needs to be information prepared for CEOs and Sales & Marketing Executives. And, as you suggest, related but more targeted messages to other groups. I also hope that we find anoint UA Ambassadors that can take the message to their circles of influence - be that geographic, industry, technology, or whatever. (Local Rotary Groups?) We need to make sure that they are well versed and well equipped. Training for these folks, where possible, can happen at an ICANN Meeting. Don On 17/02/2015, at 1:50 pm, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia> > wrote: Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter: a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than “vice” chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff) As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following: A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate. Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted. Edmon From: <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on. What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point. So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by. C On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick < <mailto:nicknels@amazon.com> nicknels@amazon.com> wrote: I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" _____ From: <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [ <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com> dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan < <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
Readiness is indeed a better term.
On 17/02/2015, at 2:51 pm, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
Agree that measurement is a key initiative, and included in my scope and as Taskforce E (sorry the previous note was a bit cryptic on that perhaps :-D).
I see measurement both as a way to evaluate “readiness” (I do not think “compliance” is the right way to characterize it, perhaps that is somewhat my own perception as it is affected by ICANN compliance), as well as to track overall progress.
Edmon
<> From: Don Hollander [mailto:don.hollander@gmail.com <mailto:don.hollander@gmail.com>] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:45 AM To: Edmon Chung Cc: Christian Dawson; Nelson, Nick; UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Thanks Edmon.
Some comments:
I would like to see some group look at measurement and possibly some certification of compliance. By having a well considered measure of compliance, we can test the situation today and every six months (or so) and we can do this both globally and within each geographic region as well as within relevant industry sectors.
I also wonder what industry bodies are looking at these issues, if any.
There are some topics that are not covered in RFCs but have been/are being determined by individual developers. It would be useful, I think, to have forum for discussion.
I think your task force would also benefit from a technical group that provides technical solutions for people who need to actually fix the code. This could include documentation of the issues and solutions aimed at: Software Engineer; Systems Architect; CIO. Somewhere else there needs to be information prepared for CEOs and Sales & Marketing Executives. And, as you suggest, related but more targeted messages to other groups.
I also hope that we find anoint UA Ambassadors that can take the message to their circles of influence - be that geographic, industry, technology, or whatever. (Local Rotary Groups?) We need to make sure that they are well versed and well equipped. Training for these folks, where possible, can happen at an ICANN Meeting.
Don
On 17/02/2015, at 1:50 pm, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote:
Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter:
a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives
b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than “vice” chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce
c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff)
As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following:
A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress
Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate.
Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on.
What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point.
So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by.
C
On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com <mailto:nicknels@amazon.com>> wrote:
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com <mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
How about "Best Practice"(BP) At the moment I am thinking of BP wrt the proper integration of IDNs into websites. An IDN URL should behave like an ASCII DN URL i.e. the browser address bar displays and follows page navigation. So behaviour that is NOT BP includes ① Browser displays punycode instead of unicode IDN. This is a big problem because users have to delve into and understand browser prefs. These settings need to be brought to the top level UI i.e. upfront on browser window ② IDNs redirecting to an ASCII ③ Websites using frame redirects and this just results in a static address bar and so does nor display and follow page navigation Over the years I have put many BP IDNs onto http://idnsearch.net I do not put any onto idnsearch that are not BP In general, IDNs do not make it onto my blog http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk unless they are BP More interestingly - I consider a BP IDN/URL should have the pathname part of the URL in the language/Script of the IDN but there are very few sites that implement this. It is actually fairly easy to do with aliasing of directories and files. André Schappo On 17 Feb 2015, at 01:51, Edmon Chung wrote: Agree that measurement is a key initiative, and included in my scope and as Taskforce E (sorry the previous note was a bit cryptic on that perhaps :-D). I see measurement both as a way to evaluate “readiness” (I do not think “compliance” is the right way to characterize it, perhaps that is somewhat my own perception as it is affected by ICANN compliance), as well as to track overall progress. Edmon From: Don Hollander [mailto:don.hollander@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Don Hollander Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:45 AM To: Edmon Chung Cc: Christian Dawson; Nelson, Nick; UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Thanks Edmon. Some comments: I would like to see some group look at measurement and possibly some certification of compliance. By having a well considered measure of compliance, we can test the situation today and every six months (or so) and we can do this both globally and within each geographic region as well as within relevant industry sectors. I also wonder what industry bodies are looking at these issues, if any. There are some topics that are not covered in RFCs but have been/are being determined by individual developers. It would be useful, I think, to have forum for discussion. I think your task force would also benefit from a technical group that provides technical solutions for people who need to actually fix the code. This could include documentation of the issues and solutions aimed at: Software Engineer; Systems Architect; CIO. Somewhere else there needs to be information prepared for CEOs and Sales & Marketing Executives. And, as you suggest, related but more targeted messages to other groups. I also hope that we find anoint UA Ambassadors that can take the message to their circles of influence - be that geographic, industry, technology, or whatever. (Local Rotary Groups?) We need to make sure that they are well versed and well equipped. Training for these folks, where possible, can happen at an ICANN Meeting. Don On 17/02/2015, at 1:50 pm, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia<mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote: Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter: a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than “vice” chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff) As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following: A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate. Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on. What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point. So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by. C On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com<mailto:nicknels@amazon.com>> wrote: I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space. The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?" ________________________________ From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson@i2coalition.com>] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG? Ram, I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2. I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.) -Christian On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>> wrote: Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order: 1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through Appreciate input. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30 马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫马馬骉驫 http://twitter.com/andreschappo http://schappo.blogspot.co.uk http://weibo.com/andreschappo http://blog.sina.com.cn/andreschappo
First, this is all a very good discussion and I offer some thoughts with the idea that I support what's been said. 1) One feature of the organization should be its flexibility. With that in mind, I think sub-groups can be formed, perform work and disband as need be. It is difficult at this stage to describe which sub-groups should be formed. I think that technical activities and communications activities should each be coordinated under separate umbrellas. For example, a communications team can form separate sub-groups for "material development" and "business outreach" or combine those two into a "business materials development and outreach team" and a "government materials development and outreach team." Let the communications experts decide the scope of the different sub-group so they set it up in a way that will interest them. Having sub-groups expire will also the give the teams a sense of accomplishment, rotate membership & leadership, and avoid a sense of a ten-year march. Edmon makes good arguments for separating the sub-groups the way he has but in some cases, it might be more effective to organize them differently and we should provide that flexibility. I would add sub-group meetings to Edmon's list of meetings. They would meet with a frequency determined by the sub-group based on their competition and goals.Each sub-group will have a charter describing goals, resources needed and timeline. 2) Steering group meeting will take stock of sub-group performance, allocate resources to them, and decide whether new sub-groups should be formed. Any volunteer can come to the steering committee and ask to join an existing sub-group or ask to form a new one. This doesn't mean that a new sub-group will be formed, just that the Steering Committee will carefully consider it. 3) As Don mentioned, there should be a scorecard of sorts. Non-compliant organizations should be reported but how this is done should be thought through. Victories should be celebrated. 4) IDNs should retain prominence, but I agree with Michele and I believe that ASCII Universal Acceptance is a separable and important issue - meaning that it should be managed separately and with great zeal. Messaging must be tailored to the audience. In the US, where lack of Universal Acceptance is a severe problem, an IDN headline is likely to not gain traction. I hope tho sis helpful. Regards, Kurt On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Don Hollander <don@i2.org.nz> wrote:
Thanks Edmon.
Some comments:
I would like to see some group look at measurement and possibly some certification of compliance. By having a well considered measure of compliance, we can test the situation today and every six months (or so) and we can do this both globally and within each geographic region as well as within relevant industry sectors.
I also wonder what industry bodies are looking at these issues, if any.
There are some topics that are not covered in RFCs but have been/are being determined by individual developers. It would be useful, I think, to have forum for discussion.
I think your task force would also benefit from a technical group that provides technical solutions for people who need to actually fix the code. This could include documentation of the issues and solutions aimed at: Software Engineer; Systems Architect; CIO. Somewhere else there needs to be information prepared for CEOs and Sales & Marketing Executives. And, as you suggest, related but more targeted messages to other groups.
I also hope that we find anoint UA Ambassadors that can take the message to their circles of influence - be that geographic, industry, technology, or whatever. (Local Rotary Groups?) We need to make sure that they are well versed and well equipped. Training for these folks, where possible, can happen at an ICANN Meeting.
Don
On 17/02/2015, at 1:50 pm, Edmon Chung <edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
Some thoughts on a non-exhaustive list of items for consideration for a fuller charter:
a. scope - work closely with ICANN staff team to continue to drive the efforts - prioritization of efforts by ICANN and for recommendation to community - identification of collaborative opportunities - oversee the development of informational materials for various stakeholders (including coordinating with industry efforts) - studying the need and requirements for appropriate repositories (and coordinate for its development/deployment by ICANN or collaboration with appropriate industry efforts) - follow up with the deployment of ICANN internal policies to support UA - development of measurements/indices/surveys/etc. to measure UA readiness - continue to track progress of UA - inviting non-ICANN community to the initiative and proactively reaching out to non-ICANN community events/initiatives
b. structure - suggest: 3 co-chairs or 1 chair and 2 co-chairs (think a flatter organization rather than “vice” chairs seem more collaborative) - taskforce (sub groups): 2 coordinators (instead of called chairs) for each taskforce
c. format / activities - face-to-face meetings at ICANN meetings 1. steering group meetings - track progress of activities by ICANN staff and taskforces - calibration/recalibration of priorities - review/revise action plans 2. public meetings - invite non-ICANN community participants to share experiences - update community on progress and activities of UASG - continue to recruit participation in on-going activities - mailing list discussions - conference calls as need be in between ICANN meetings - coordination of activities outside of ICANN (by community members as well as ICANN staff)
As for Taskforces (sub-groups), think we should consider the following:
A. information materials development / coordination B. business community & consumer outreach C. technical & academia community outreach D. government & ngo community outreach E. stocktaking of issues / measuring / tracking of progress
Reason I think B/C/D should be separate I because the messaging may be quite different, and the set of people interested may also be different. While outputs/works from A and B/C/D would obviously intertwine, I see that in the initial stages, B/C/D would work independently to start the awareness phase, while A completes its work by collating industry experience and best practices. Thereupon, in following stages, B/C/D can take the work products of A to further disseminate.
Above is a quick download of some of my thoughts, hope it is not too long and convoluted.
Edmon
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Christian Dawson Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:45 AM To: Nelson, Nick Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Totally agree with the concept of needing to know why we’re here, but I saw #3 slightly differently. A charter will define a broad scope and include a definition of the broad problem set. I’m taking a crack at that broad "Mission, Purpose and Need” in the draft Charter I’m taking first draft on.
What we’ll need at stage 3 is a deep dive into the scope of the issue - it’s various components and stakeholders. I think that’s a distinctly different project and worthy of its own point.
So ultimately I agree, but think we can cover "Mission, Purpose and Need” sufficiently in the draft Charter to get by.
C
On Feb 16, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Nelson, Nick <nicknels@amazon.com> wrote:
I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Christian Dawson [dawson@i2coalition.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM To: Ram Mohan SMTP Cc: UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Ram,
I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I’d say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
I probably can’t get far enough along to put my draft charter up for review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones together.)
-Christian
On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
Team, Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
1. Group leadership 2. Group structure and charter 3. Definition of problem space 4. Prioritization of problem space 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces 6. Delegation of work 7. Execution of work 8. Follow-through
Appreciate input.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype: gliderpilot30
participants (19)
-
Andre Schappo -
Anthony Harris -
Christian Dawson -
Dillon, Chris -
Don Hollander -
Dusan Stojicevic -
Edmon Chung -
Francisco Arias -
Jeffrey Sass -
Jiankang Yao -
Jordyn Buchanan -
Kurt Pritz -
Mark McFadden -
Mark Svancarek -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Nelson, Nick -
Pinky Brand [TLD Registry Ltd] -
Ram Mohan -
Richard Merdinger