“At Bing indexing, we convert all IDN into punycode-encoded form and we are indexing those domains equally as the English ones.” This makes sense and I guess it is fine to process the IDN in the a-label form since the indexing process runs behind the scenes and the end user is not exposed to this. “Specific to this DSATs, we have both modao.cc and xn--ebr05n.com (墨刀.com) in index, indicating there is no systematic issue handling IDN indexing. However, we do realize punycode-encoded form is less user friendly compared with the original form and we will further discuss internally on how we can improve the search UX.” Not sure what DSAT mean, but I agree this is an opportunity to improve the search UX. Good to know the Bing team is aware of this. Thanks for sharing Mark. -Dennis From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mark Svancarek Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM To: Jin Wang Cc: liuyue@catr.cn; Yaling Tan; ua-international@icann.org; UA-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-International] IDN-as-punycode-encoded-label in Baidu search engine results Here’s what Bing says: At Bing indexing, we convert all IDN into punycode-encoded form and we are indexing those domains equally as the English ones. Specific to this DSATs, we have both modao.cc and xn--ebr05n.com (墨刀.com) in index, indicating there is no systematic issue handling IDN indexing. However, we do realize punycode-encoded form is less user friendly compared with the original form and we will further discuss internally on how we can improve the search UX. From: Jin Wang [mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info] Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 1:26 AM To: Mark Svancarek Cc: liuyue@catr.cn<mailto:liuyue@catr.cn>; Yaling Tan; Pinky Brand Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-International] IDN-as-punycode-encoded-label in Baidu search engine results Hi Mark, Greetings from Beijing! We really appreciate the great help you offered! I am passing the info to a small group of colleagues from the industry- policy makers, registries and registrars. We think it might be better to firstly gather as many ideas or questions as possible from our side so that we can offer a list of UA issues to companies like Microsoft and teams like the Bing. I will keep you posted for any update here in China, and please feel free to contact me for any possible question or tasks. Warmest Regards, Jin On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:59 AM, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: LMK if you need any assistance with the Microsoft Bing team. They are aware of this topic. From: Jin Wang [mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info<mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info>] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 8:21 AM To: Tan Tanaka, Dennis Cc: ua-discuss; ua-international@icann.org<mailto:ua-international@icann.org>; yaojk; Brent London; Don Hollander; Mark Svancarek Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-International] IDN-as-punycode-encoded-label in Baidu search engine results Hi Dennis, Sorry for the confusion caused, I did miss your point, and yes of course you are definitely right about the a-label showing on the search result. As for the plan for China UA task, actually there is an existing yet very strong 'ICANN community' in China. we are working together to form a combined effort in UA by: Firstly identify the major stakeholders (policy makers, IDN tld registries, top registrars, top search application/service providers, internet research organisations), Secondly gather the demands from registries' side, Thirdly we need to interview the search engines and input methods companies to analyse the potential technical obstacles-- with the interests of a stakeholder group rather than one tld at a time, Last but not least, we should raise the awareness among the CIOs and CMOs in China through as many channels/methods as possible. The current obstacles for this China group to join the UA discuss are their working language (which is mainly Chinese) & the time difference. Nonetheless we still want to make more contribution to ICANN UA by helping the localization of any UA related document and sharing first-hand feedbacks from Chinese 'netizens' and internet service providers. Best Regards, Jin On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Tan Tanaka, Dennis <dtantanaka@verisign.com<mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com>> wrote: Hi Jin, Perhaps I was not clearly enough in my note. I was referring to the fifth search result on the picture. Note that the URL is “xn—ebr05n.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2febr05n.com&data=01%7c01%7cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7c9c22650a57d74e89412108d2f4eb483b%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=BXIq1GVrNidUmIG6zH3VWVRJt8M3YyPlqTLqLnycuEo%3d>” instead of ”墨刀.com”. The point is that the a-label should not be displayed to the end user. The application should have identified the label as an IDN and as such transformed it to Unicode. That didn’t happen here. On your other note, if you can elaborate a plan on how to engage these companies in China, that would be extremely welcome. Could we discuss your high level plan in two weeks from today? Thanks, Dennis From: Jin Wang [mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info<mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info>] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 1:44 AM To: Tan Tanaka, Dennis Cc: ua-discuss; ua-international@icann.org<mailto:ua-international@icann.org>; yaojk; Brent London; Don Hollander; Mark Švančárek Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-International] IDN-as-punycode-encoded-label in Baidu search engine results Hi Gentelmen, I reckoned the term Dennis used is an IDN.com but all the BAIDU results just took the Chinese key words (the parts that were high-lighted in red)--- it barely has anything to do with domain name. It is really hard to come to the conclusion that BAIDU is supporting IDNs in their search engine. At present, Baidu is the leading search engine in China but there are still a handful companies providing similar services in China. Therefore, instead of having one or two experts talking to the companies one by one, I suggest we'd better make a combined effort to talk to a group of companies - search engines, mailbox service provider, input methods (for Chinese pinyin), and also some of the smartphone manufacturers. As most of them are competing locally rather than globally, it might works better to start within China, especially when some of the world's biggest player is in absence in China. I can voluntarily embark on finding out a viable communication channel so that we can have a dialog mechanism in the future. Best Regards, Jin On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Jiankang Yao <yaojk@cnnic.cn<mailto:yaojk@cnnic.cn>> wrote: I can help to talk to baidu and forward your message to them. ________________________________ Jiankang Yao From: Tan Tanaka, Dennis<mailto:dtantanaka@verisign.com> Date: 2015-11-24 05:45 To: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> CC: ua-international@icann.org<mailto:ua-international@icann.org> Subject: [UA-International] IDN-as-punycode-encoded-label in Baidu search engine results Often times I hear that IDNs are not indexed by certain search engines. While I know this is not true, the example below doesn’t help my case either (at least not 100%). Here is an example where the IDN I’m looking for is showing up in the first 5 search results on Baidu (see picture below). However, the string is displayed as the punycode-encoded label instead of the corresponding Chinese IDN (i.e. xn--ebr05n.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fxn--ebr05n.c...>) . Google and Yandex appear to work as expected. Bing didn’t display the domain name in the results (first two pages). Is there someone interested (and with the language skills) in taking the action item to reach out to Baidu? This might be in the form of opening a bug ticket to explain the problem (IDN is displayed as punycode-encoded label. Example: xn--ebr05.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fxn--ebr05.co...>) and what the expected result should have been (IDN displayed as Chinese domain nam. Example: 墨刀.com). [cid:image001.png@01D1279C.E9936EF0] Dennis Tan Sr. Product Manager Naming Services DTanTanaka@Verisign.com<mailto:DTanTanaka@Verisign.com> m: 571-246-7303<tel:571-246-7303> t: 703-948-4197<tel:703-948-4197> 12061 Bluemont Way, Reston, VA 20190 VerisignInc.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.verisign...> [Verisign™] -- 王瑨 中国区总经理 Mr. Jin Wang China General Manager 域通联达 [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/145935004/tld%20registry%20english%20log...] 中文新顶级域名市场领航者 The Market-leading New Chinese Domains 北京 | 香港 | 赫尔辛基 | 纽约 | 奥斯汀 | 奥斯陆 Beijing | Hong Kong | Helsinki | New York | Austin | Oslo 移动电话: +86 159 0110 8743 电子邮件: jin.wang@internetregistry.info<mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info> -- 王瑨 中国区总经理 Mr. Jin Wang China General Manager 域通联达 [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/145935004/tld%20registry%20english%20log...] 中文新顶级域名市场领航者 The Market-leading New Chinese Domains 北京 | 香港 | 赫尔辛基 | 纽约 | 奥斯汀 | 奥斯陆 Beijing | Hong Kong | Helsinki | New York | Austin | Oslo 移动电话: +86 159 0110 8743 电子邮件: jin.wang@internetregistry.info<mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info> -- 王瑨 中国区总经理 Mr. Jin Wang China General Manager 域通联达 [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/145935004/tld%20registry%20english%20log...] 中文新顶级域名市场领航者 The Market-leading New Chinese Domains 北京 | 香港 | 赫尔辛基 | 纽约 | 奥斯汀 | 奥斯陆 Beijing | Hong Kong | Helsinki | New York | Austin | Oslo 移动电话: +86 159 0110 8743 电子邮件: jin.wang@internetregistry.info<mailto:jin.wang@internetregistry.info>
