The Kirov timezone according to the tz database is GMT+3. As you will remember in an earlier mail I could not find any mention of the timezone directly in the page of the Kirovskaya oblast' in http://www.gov-vyatka.ru/ however this page pointed to another page http://www.gismeteo.ru/weather/towns/27196.htm that has sunrise and sunset times indicating that Kirov is on GMT+3. Now I have found a page that points to this same page, but explicitly defines Kirov as being on GMT+4:
From main page http://map.rin.ru selecting Kirovskaya obl. http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=kirov you can see just below the link to the www.gismeteo.ru link that it specifies explicitly GMT+4
The other links confirm what we think for other oblast's in the area: Samarskaya oblast' on GMT+4: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=samara Udmurtskaya oblast' on GMT+4: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=udmurt Volgogradskaya oblast' on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=volga Astrakhanskaya oblast' on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=astrah Saratovskaya oblast' on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=saratov Komi republic on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=komi This page has a summary of time differences from Moscow time, and shows Kirov as being on Moscow time, e.g. GMT+3: http://www.bereg.ru/sprav_info/inform/time.shtml As we know from an earlier email from Paul Eggert, Shanks & Pottenger (2003) has Kirov on GMT+4. I'm afraid Kirov is a difficult case. I have changed it myself in World Time Explorer 4 times from between GMT+4 and GMT+3: February 23, 2000 GMT+4 to GMT+3 January 21, 2001 GMT+3 to GMT+4 June 18, 2001 GMT+4 to GMT+3 October 2, 2002 GMT+3 to GMT+4 Each time I was convinced I had found a better source. So who are we to believe? We have still not found any official russian page that gives the GMT offset explicitly. - Jesper Jesper Nørgaard Welen Email: jnorgard@Prodigy.Net.mx Project Leader (Líder de Proyecto) Software CIMMYT - Centro Internacional de Mejoramiento de Maíz y Trigo Dirección: CIMMYT Int. c/o Jesper Nørgaard Km. 45, Carretera México-Veracruz El Batán Texcoco, Edo. de México CP 56130 MEXICO Tel.: +52 (55) 58-04-20-04 ext. 1374 Fax: +52 (55) 58-04-75-58 Tel. Casa: 53-10-05-95 ó 53-10-97-78 Download the free program World Time Explorer, I made: http://www.worldtimeexplorer.com/index.html
Dear Paul, I have been in contact with a Russian astronomer in Murmansk, as well as someone who works in what would be the Department of Transportation in the US. They both say that Kirov is GMT+4, and that it uses daylight savings time. I can write the astronomer again and see if anything has changed, but it is via surface mail, and takes about a month to get a reply. Rives On May 13, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Jesper Norgaard Welen wrote:
The Kirov timezone according to the tz database is GMT+3. As you will remember in an earlier mail I could not find any mention of the timezone directly in the page of the Kirovskaya oblast' in http://www.gov-vyatka.ru/ however this page pointed to another page http://www.gismeteo.ru/weather/towns/27196.htm that has sunrise and sunset times indicating that Kirov is on GMT+3.
Now I have found a page that points to this same page, but explicitly defines Kirov as being on GMT+4: From main page http://map.rin.ru selecting Kirovskaya obl. http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=kirov you can see just below the link to the www.gismeteo.ru link that it specifies explicitly GMT+4
The other links confirm what we think for other oblast's in the area: Samarskaya oblast' on GMT+4: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=samara Udmurtskaya oblast' on GMT+4: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=udmurt Volgogradskaya oblast' on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=volga Astrakhanskaya oblast' on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=astrah Saratovskaya oblast' on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=saratov Komi republic on GMT+3: http://map.rin.ru/cgi-bin/main.pl?Region=komi
This page has a summary of time differences from Moscow time, and shows Kirov as being on Moscow time, e.g. GMT+3: http://www.bereg.ru/sprav_info/inform/time.shtml
As we know from an earlier email from Paul Eggert, Shanks & Pottenger (2003) has Kirov on GMT+4.
I'm afraid Kirov is a difficult case. I have changed it myself in World Time Explorer 4 times from between GMT+4 and GMT+3: February 23, 2000 GMT+4 to GMT+3 January 21, 2001 GMT+3 to GMT+4 June 18, 2001 GMT+4 to GMT+3 October 2, 2002 GMT+3 to GMT+4 Each time I was convinced I had found a better source. So who are we to believe? We have still not found any official russian page that gives the GMT offset explicitly.
- Jesper
Jesper Nørgaard Welen Email: jnorgard@Prodigy.Net.mx Project Leader (Líder de Proyecto) Software CIMMYT - Centro Internacional de Mejoramiento de Maíz y Trigo Dirección: CIMMYT Int. c/o Jesper Nørgaard Km. 45, Carretera México-Veracruz El Batán Texcoco, Edo. de México CP 56130 MEXICO Tel.: +52 (55) 58-04-20-04 ext. 1374 Fax: +52 (55) 58-04-75-58 Tel. Casa: 53-10-05-95 ó 53-10-97-78 Download the free program World Time Explorer, I made: http://www.worldtimeexplorer.com/index.html
Rives McDow <rmcdow@globaltimesystems.org> writes:
I have been in contact with a Russian astronomer in Murmansk, as well as someone who works in what would be the Department of Transportation in the US. They both say that Kirov is GMT+4, and that it uses daylight savings time. I can write the astronomer again and see if anything has changed, but it is via surface mail, and takes about a month to get a reply.
Thanks for the info. Kirov / Vyatka is an obscure case. It is a city that appears to have two names, depending on context, which means that if we added it to the database, we'd need to pick a name. (Is it normally called "Kirov" or "Vyatka" in typical conversation? I don't know.) Possibly different parts of the region observe different time zones depending on the context. I wouldn't be surprised, for example, if some businesses (near the train station, for example?) observe Moscow time even if most of the region is one hour ahead of Moscow time. Here are a couple of data points that contradict each other. <http://www.mazut.kirov.ru/forum/>'s time stamp "1:25 am" generated at 21:25 UTC today indicates that the current time zone for this service is UTC+4, which suggests that Kirov is UTC+3 during winter, UTC+4 during summer. A note at the bottom right says "Часовой пояс: GMT + 4", which agrees with the time stamp. On the other hand, possibly www.mazut.kirov.ru is not located in Kirov, or it's configured using Moscow time even though Kirov uses UTC+4, or it's configured to not observe DST. On the other side, <http://skaro.afraid.org/digbyt/baikal03/baikal01.html> contains a seemingly authoritative commentary saying that Kirov was 1 hour ahead of Moscow on 2003-08-14 at 12:20 local time, as reported by traveler Digby Russell Simon Tarvin. As the photo makes clear he did get off the train and wandered through the train station during what he reports was a 20-minute stop. However, I suppose it's possible that the train station itself observed Moscow time and that his comment about Kirov being an hour ahead is simply copied from his tourist guidebook rather than being an actual observation of a local clock. For an example of misinformation along these lines, please see <http://www.trans-siberian.info/trans-siberian.php>, which claims that Kirov, Nizhny Novgorod, and Vladimir are all at UTC+4; this is obviously bogus. An even better caution to the unwary: All long distance trains follow Moscow time, so we've had to be aware of how many hours ahead of the capital we are on each leg and at each stop. It finally caught us out yesterday on the train from Yekaterinburg to Kazan. Our guide book told us Kazan was two hours ahead of Moscow - when in reality it's the same time zone. Unfortunately, we only discovered the truth in the last stages of the trip - after much confusion. The mistake meant we had lunch at 10am instead of when we thought it would come at noon. Of course, another breakfast beer delivery came with it. <http://www.abc.net.au/news/specials/transsiberia/> Emma Griffiths (2005-06-25)
participants (3)
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Jesper Norgaard Welen -
Paul Eggert -
Rives McDow