Error for Chile on September 2023
Hello On September 2023, Chile changed the date for DST from September 3rd to September 11th. I do not see this change in the database. See the government webpage that indicated this change https://horaoficial.cl/CambioHusoHorario.php Thank you -- Jacqueline Seron N. NOIRLab - AURA
Jacqueline Seron wrote:
On September 2023, Chile changed the date for DST from September 3rd to September 11th. I do not see this change in the database.
See the government webpage that indicated this change https://horaoficial.cl/CambioHusoHorario.php
Can you point to the tab, document, or passage from the link you provided that mentions this change? Both the table on the linked page and the PDF that can be downloaded from it stop at 2021. The Supreme Decree which is linked from the “Cambio de Horas” tab says: 2. Starting at midnight on the first Saturday of the month of September 2023 and until midnight on the first Saturday of the month of April 2024, the official time will be advanced by 60 minutes. The first Saturday of September 2023 was the 2nd. -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
On Nov 6, 2023, at 2:16 PM, Doug Ewell via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
Both the table on the linked page and the PDF that can be downloaded from it stop at 2021. The Supreme Decree which is linked from the “Cambio de Horas” tab says:
2. Starting at midnight on the first Saturday of the month of September 2023 and until midnight on the first Saturday of the month of April 2024, the official time will be advanced by 60 minutes.
Presumably meaning "Starting at midnight at the end of the first Saturday of the month of September 2023", as the last Rule entry for Chile is Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 -
Guy Harris wrote:
2. Starting at midnight on the first Saturday of the month of September 2023 and until midnight on the first Saturday of the month of April 2024, the official time will be advanced by 60 minutes.
Presumably meaning "Starting at midnight at the end of the first Saturday of the month of September 2023", as the last Rule entry for Chile is
Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 -
Correct and understood; the decree’s “midnight on [viz. at the end of] Saturday” (here, the 2nd) is equivalent to my “midnight at the start of Sunday” (here, the 3rd). But it could not refer in any way to the 11th. -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
Hello Doug Thank you so much for taking a look into this.. This is embarrassing! Chile's government didn't update the change, it was a last minute change due to a national voting on 2023, From the first Saturday (Sept3) to the second (Sept 11) I thought it was on the list, my apologies!, I guess I should write to them. Thank you very much for your time! Jacqueline On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 7:47 PM Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> wrote:
Guy Harris wrote:
2. Starting at midnight on the first Saturday of the month of September 2023 and until midnight on the first Saturday of the month of April 2024, the official time will be advanced by 60 minutes.
Presumably meaning "Starting at midnight at the end of the first Saturday of the month of September 2023", as the last Rule entry for Chile is
Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 -
Correct and understood; the decree’s “midnight on [viz. at the end of] Saturday” (here, the 2nd) is equivalent to my “midnight at the start of Sunday” (here, the 3rd). But it could not refer in any way to the 11th.
-- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
-- Jacqueline Seron N. NOIRLab - AURA
On 2023-11-06 15:47, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
Guy Harris wrote:
2. Starting at midnight on the first Saturday of the month of September 2023 and until midnight on the first Saturday of the month of April 2024, the official time will be advanced by 60 minutes.
Presumably meaning "Starting at midnight at the end of the first Saturday of the month of September 2023", as the last Rule entry for Chile is
Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 -
Correct and understood; the decree’s “midnight on [viz. at the end of] Saturday” (here, the 2nd) is equivalent to my “midnight at the start of Sunday” (here, the 3rd). But it could not refer in any way to the 11th. The rules use Sun >= 2 becuse the time specified with "u" is UTC not local, it is the same as Sun >= 1 (1st Sunday) in local time; and Sun >= 9 Z => Sun >= 8 local (2nd Sunday) in 2022 only.
So Sun 3 & 10 would be "4" & "11" for these rules. I think the OP has generalized from a single data point, and may think the 2022 change on 2nd Sunday was meant to continue, but that was reverted for 2023 on: Rule Chile 2019 max - Apr Sun>=2 3:00u 0 - Rule Chile 2019 2021 - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 - Rule Chile 2022 only - Sep Sun>=9 4:00u 1:00 - Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 - See https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/southamerica#L1318 for Chile's DST history -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Thank you Brian cc previous people included in communication I'm so sorry for the confusion and wasting your time, I see in the Chile file the change I mentioned in a comment from Juan Correa (2022-08-09) It seems the python library I'm using doesn't have a record of this change. Again, my apologies! On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 8:08 PM Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@shaw.ca> wrote:
On 2023-11-06 15:47, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
Guy Harris wrote:
2. Starting at midnight on the first Saturday of the month of September 2023 and until midnight on the first Saturday of the month of April 2024, the official time will be advanced by 60 minutes.
Presumably meaning "Starting at midnight at the end of the first Saturday of the month of September 2023", as the last Rule entry for Chile is
Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u
1:00 -
Correct and understood; the decree’s “midnight on [viz. at the end of] Saturday” (here, the 2nd) is equivalent to my “midnight at the start of Sunday” (here, the 3rd). But it could not refer in any way to the 11th. The rules use Sun >= 2 becuse the time specified with "u" is UTC not local, it is the same as Sun >= 1 (1st Sunday) in local time; and Sun >= 9 Z => Sun = 8 local (2nd Sunday) in 2022 only.
So Sun 3 & 10 would be "4" & "11" for these rules.
I think the OP has generalized from a single data point, and may think the 2022 change on 2nd Sunday was meant to continue, but that was reverted for 2023 on:
Rule Chile 2019 max - Apr Sun>=2 3:00u 0 - Rule Chile 2019 2021 - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 - Rule Chile 2022 only - Sep Sun>=9 4:00u 1:00 - Rule Chile 2023 max - Sep Sun>=2 4:00u 1:00 -
See https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/southamerica#L1318 for Chile's DST history
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Jacqueline Seron N. NOIRLab - AURA
The comment dated 2022-08-09 refers to a delay in the onset of DST in September 2022. It doesn’t say anything about a change in September 2023, which is what the Subject line and original message in this thread refer to. -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org From: Jacqueline Seron <jacqueline.seron@noirlab.edu> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 16:29 To: tz@iana.org Cc: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>; cc: Guy Harris <gharris@sonic.net>; Brian.Inglis@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [tz] Error for Chile on September 2023 Thank you Brian cc previous people included in communication I'm so sorry for the confusion and wasting your time, I see in the Chile file the change I mentioned in a comment from Juan Correa (2022-08-09) It seems the python library I'm using doesn't have a record of this change. Again, my apologies!
Oh, I see. The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph. https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado... Thank you for your patience! On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 8:49 PM Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> wrote:
The comment dated 2022-08-09 refers to a delay in the onset of DST in September 2022. It doesn’t say anything about a change in September 2023, which is what the Subject line and original message in this thread refer to.
-- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
From: Jacqueline Seron <jacqueline.seron@noirlab.edu> Sent: Monday, November 6, 2023 16:29 To: tz@iana.org Cc: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>; cc: Guy Harris <gharris@sonic.net>; Brian.Inglis@shaw.ca Subject: Re: [tz] Error for Chile on September 2023
Thank you Brian cc previous people included in communication
I'm so sorry for the confusion and wasting your time, I see in the Chile file the change I mentioned in a comment from Juan Correa (2022-08-09)
It seems the python library I'm using doesn't have a record of this change.
Again, my apologies!
-- Jacqueline Seron N. NOIRLab - AURA
Jacqueline Seron wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
“De esta manera, se establece que a contar de las 24 horas del sábado 10 de septiembre de 2022, y hasta las 24 horas del sábado 1 de abril de 2023, la hora oficial se adelantará 60 minutos.” “In this way, it is established that starting at midnight on Saturday, September 10, 2022, and until midnight on Saturday, April 1, 2023, the official time will be advanced 60 minutes.” I still do not see what this has to do with a change of date for September 2023. -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
Initially the change was going to occur on September 2 at midnight, but it was changed last minute, to be on September 10th at midnight. On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 9:30 PM Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> wrote:
Jacqueline Seron wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
“De esta manera, se establece que a contar de las 24 horas del sábado 10 de septiembre de 2022, y hasta las 24 horas del sábado 1 de abril de 2023, la hora oficial se adelantará 60 minutos.”
“In this way, it is established that starting at midnight on Saturday, September 10, 2022, and until midnight on Saturday, April 1, 2023, the official time will be advanced 60 minutes.”
I still do not see what this has to do with a change of date for September 2023.
-- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
-- Jacqueline Seron N. NOIRLab - AURA
On 11/6/23 15:58, Jacqueline Seron via tz wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
That web page is about changes in September 2022, not September 2023. As far as we know, it was a one-shot change and things went back to normal this spring.
Yes, I was mistaken, I'm so sorry! On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 11:49 PM Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 11/6/23 15:58, Jacqueline Seron via tz wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
That web page is about changes in September 2022, not September 2023. As far as we know, it was a one-shot change and things went back to normal this spring.
-- Jacqueline Seron N. NOIRLab - AURA
A Google search on "relojes site:interior.gob.cl"... https://www.google.com/search?q=relojes+site%3Ainterior.gob.cl ...produces 49 results, of which two are time-zone related... https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado... https://www.interior.gob.cl/sitio-2010-2014/n6711_22-02-2012.html ...and which are for 2012 and 2022, matching what's now in the database. No result for 2023 appears. @dashdashado On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 9:50 PM Paul Eggert via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
On 11/6/23 15:58, Jacqueline Seron via tz wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
That web page is about changes in September 2022, not September 2023. As far as we know, it was a one-shot change and things went back to normal this spring.
On 2023-11-06 20:17, Arthur David Olson via tz wrote:
A Google search on "relojes site:interior.gob.cl <http://interior.gob.cl>"... https://www.google.com/search?q=relojes+site%3Ainterior.gob.cl <https://www.google.com/search?q=relojes+site%3Ainterior.gob.cl> ...produces 49 results, of which two are time-zone related... https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado... <https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...> https://www.interior.gob.cl/sitio-2010-2014/n6711_22-02-2012.html <https://www.interior.gob.cl/sitio-2010-2014/n6711_22-02-2012.html> ...and which are for 2012 and 2022, matching what's now in the database. No result for 2023 appears.
@dashdashado
On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 9:50 PM Paul Eggert via tz <tz@iana.org <mailto:tz@iana.org>> wrote:
On 11/6/23 15:58, Jacqueline Seron via tz wrote: > The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, > second paragraph. > > https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado... <https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...>
That web page is about changes in September 2022, not September 2023. As far as we know, it was a one-shot change and things went back to normal this spring.
Last August an official from the Chile Interior Department sent the list an official update and clarification in the thread starting: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2022-August/031858.html [tz] Official Chilean Goverment Decret for timezone changes 2022-2026 from Eduardo Romero Urra - eromero AT interior DOT gob DOT cl with a link to the decree document: https://www.diariooficial.interior.gob.cl/publicaciones/2022/08/13/43327/01/... and comments: "I've review your update 2022b TZdata and it's ok for this year where the summer time starts the second saturday of September (Sep 10th at midnight), but the next years (2023 to 2026) is need to precise that the summer time event affects only for this year according to avoid problem confusions to a Votation Day schedule to the next sunday Sept 4th (the original summer time change was schedule at Saturday Sep 3th midnight). Also consider this also affects to Easter Island Time Zone (Pacific/Easter) and not affects to Chile/Punta_Arenas Time Zone." and he excerpted from the decree: "2023-2025 - Chile/Continental (America/Santiago): Summer time ends at first saturday of Abril 24:00 Hrs, backward 1hour (GMT -04), and Summer time starts the first saturday of September at 24:00, adding 1hour (GMT -03) - Chile/Easter (Pacific/Easter): Summer time ends at first saturday of Abril at 22:00 Hrs, backward 1hour ( GMT -06), and Summer time starts the first saturday of September at 24:00, adding 1hour (GMT -05) - Chile/Punta_Arenas (America/Punta_Arenas): No changes, keeps on GMT -03" Any unusual looking days or times in rules or zones are workarounds for limitations in expressions for recurring dates and time in the software. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On 2023-11-07 02:49, Paul Eggert via tz wrote:
On 11/6/23 15:58, Jacqueline Seron via tz wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
That web page is about changes in September 2022, not September 2023. As far as we know, it was a one-shot change and things went back to normal this spring.
Browsing through the list of notices at: https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/ , the posting from 2022-08-09 seems to be the most recent timezone-related one. (Although I do not know the Spanish language, I'm pretty sure I can spot anything timezone-related.) -- -=( Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> || MEV Ltd. is a company )=- -=( registered in England & Wales. Regd. number: 02862268. )=- -=( Regd. addr.: S11 & 12 Building 67, Europa Business Park, )=- -=( Bird Hall Lane, STOCKPORT, SK3 0XA, UK. || www.mev.co.uk )=-
Further confirmed by the latest item on this subject in the top level government news site on 2023-08-28: https://www.gob.cl/noticias/cambio-hora-2023-fecha-huso-horario-verano-modif... . It's refreshing that they stated it two different ways with precise language. :) On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 2:18 AM Ian Abbott via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
On 2023-11-07 02:49, Paul Eggert via tz wrote:
On 11/6/23 15:58, Jacqueline Seron via tz wrote:
The change of date for September 2023 appears in this government webpage, second paragraph.
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/2022/08/09/comunicado-el-proximo-sabado...
That web page is about changes in September 2022, not September 2023. As far as we know, it was a one-shot change and things went back to normal this spring.
Browsing through the list of notices at:
https://www.interior.gob.cl/noticias/
, the posting from 2022-08-09 seems to be the most recent timezone-related one. (Although I do not know the Spanish language, I'm pretty sure I can spot anything timezone-related.)
-- -=( Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> || MEV Ltd. is a company )=- -=( registered in England & Wales. Regd. number: 02862268. )=- -=( Regd. addr.: S11 & 12 Building 67, Europa Business Park, )=- -=( Bird Hall Lane, STOCKPORT, SK3 0XA, UK. || www.mev.co.uk )=-
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
participants (8)
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Alan Mintz -
Arthur David Olson -
Brian Inglis -
Doug Ewell -
Guy Harris -
Ian Abbott -
Jacqueline Seron -
Paul Eggert