I'm forwarding this message from Mark Jerkovic, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the time zone list should direct replies appropriately. --ado From: Mark Jerkovic [mailto:mjerkovic@aconex.com] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 7:24 PM To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Australian time zone names Hi, I would like to propose an amendment to the format of Australian timezones. Currently the format is EST for eastern states and WST for western states. This is incorrect. The Australian Government defines time zone names as follows: Time Zones There are three times zones in Australia - Eastern Australian Eastern Standard Time (AEST) is equal to Greenwich Mean Time plus 10 hours (GMT +10). AEST is followed in these regions: • New South Wales (except Broken Hill) • Victoria • Queensland • Tasmania • Australian Capital Territory Central Australian Central Standard Time (ACST) is equal to Greenwich Mean Time plus 9 ½ hours (GMT +9 ½). ACST is followed in these regions: • South Australia • Northern Territory • Broken Hill, NSW Western Australian Western Standard Time (AWST) is equal to Greenwich Mean Time plus 8 hours (GMT +8). AWST is followed in these regions: • Western Australia Daylight Saving Daylight saving time is observed by New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania, and the Australian Capital Territory from early to late October to the end of March. Western Australia began a three year trial of daylight saving on 3 December 2006. Queensland and the Northern Territory do not observe daylight savings. Where daylight saving is being observed: • AEST becomes Australian Eastern Daylight Time (AEDT), and clocks are advanced to GMT +11. • ACST becomes Australian Central Daylight Time (ACDT), and clocks are advanced to GMT +10 ½. • AWST becomes Australian Western Daylight Time (AWDT), and clocks are advanced to GMT +9. The link where this came from is http://www.australia.gov.au/Time_Zones Could these naming conventions be added to the timezone database? Thanks, Mark. Mark Jerkovic Senior Software Engineer Aconex The easy way to save time and money on your project Level 1, 696 Bourke Street, Melbourne VIC 3000, Australia Tel: +61 3 9240 0200 Fax: +61 3 9240 0299 Email: mjerkovic@aconex.com www.aconex.com This email and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee. The contents may be privileged, confidential and/or subject to copyright or other applicable law. No confidentiality or privilege is lost by an erroneous transmission. If you have received this e-mail in error, please let us know by reply e-mail and delete or destroy this mail and all copies. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. The sender takes no responsibility for the effect of this message upon the recipient's computer system.
| From: Mark Jerkovic [mailto:mjerkovic@aconex.com] | Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 7:24 PM | To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov | Subject: Australian time zone names | | The Australian Government defines time zone names as follows: You should find and read the archives of the TZ mailing list - this has been discussed to death. But briefly, the Aust Govt only defines anything related to time for the ACT (and probably could for the NT) - the states all define their own timezones, in various acts of the various state parliaments. What you're seeing in information aimed mostly at visitors who want to know what the time will be (Australians rarely need to look up web sites to discover what time it is, nor when summer time starts or ends). For outsiders, calling the time "Australian xxx" makes some kind of sense, just as it might to call the time in New York (etc) "US Eastern Standard Time" when being considered by non-natives (but that isn't its name inside the US). None of the states define anything as "Australian" anything, nor do most of them define a "Daylight" time (though some mention daylight savings in the acts). Summer Time is generally the official name for the time that applies during the summer (and late spring/early autumn) which makes reasonable sense, "daylight" makes no sense at all (nor does daylight saving, as no daylight is saved, it is just moved around the clockface a little). kre
Mark Jerkovic [mailto:mjerkovic@aconex.com] writes:
The Australian Government defines time zone names as follows:
I'm afraid the situation is a bit more complicated than that. Have you read the comments in the time zone data source files about this controversial issue? See the file "australasia" in the archive <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007i.tar.gz> and look for "AEST".
Paul Eggert wrote:
Mark Jerkovic [mailto:mjerkovic@aconex.com] writes:
The Australian Government defines time zone names as follows:
I'm afraid the situation is a bit more complicated than that. Have you read the comments in the time zone data source files about this controversial issue? See the file "australasia" in the archive <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007i.tar.gz> and look for "AEST".
According to that source, the discussions occurred over 6 years ago before there was any sort of governmental statement. Now we have a document on the Australian Government's website clearly stating the abbreviations. Surely this source outweighs these antique discussion and arguments? I see plenty of reasons to change the abbreviations. I cannot find any arguments for keeping them they way they are. Can anyone point me to or articulate these arguments? In particular, what conditions would need to be met to make the change or reopen discussion on this topic? I do notice that the abbreviations on the Beureu of Meteorology page [1] do not match those on the Australian Government web site [2], so perhaps the criteria might be more consensus amongst 'official' or trusted sources. Or perhaps there is at least enough agreement that using different abbreviations for different parts of the year (AEST/AEDT or EST/EDT) would be kaizen. I for one certainly think it would be an improvement, even if it isn't perfect. [1] http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/daysavtm.shtml [2] http://www.australia.gov.au/Time_Zones -- Stuart Bishop <stuart@stuartbishop.net> http://www.stuartbishop.net/
On 2007-11-02, Stuart Bishop wrote:
Paul Eggert wrote:
Mark Jerkovic [mailto:mjerkovic@aconex.com] writes:
The Australian Government defines time zone names as follows:
I'm afraid the situation is a bit more complicated than that. Have you read the comments in the time zone data source files about this controversial issue? See the file "australasia" in the archive <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007i.tar.gz> and look for "AEST".
According to that source, the discussions occurred over 6 years ago before there was any sort of governmental statement. Now we have a document on the Australian Government's website clearly stating the abbreviations. Surely this source outweighs these antique discussion and arguments?
One reason for determining that anything on that website is of no significance is the simple fact that nobody in Australia has a clue about what (if anything) is the meaning of AEST -- those of us who can think will believe the 'S' stands for "Standard" time; but, in summer, lots of people think it stands for "Summer" time. I looked at some Melbourne websites yesterday to find out the time of the Melbourne Cup and was amused to see that it is generally listed as 3:00 pm AEST, despite the fact that it should be AEDT if we take these abbreviations as meaningful. The real truth is that it's numeric data that tells us the useful information and the names are really pointless, especially for us who live in Australia. There is no point at all in trying to beat this particular horse any more. Cheers, Greg
participants (5)
-
Greg Black -
Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] -
Paul Eggert -
Robert Elz -
Stuart Bishop