SGT abbreviation is missing from the IANA tz database
Hi Paul, Hope you're well. By way of introduction, this is Can, working as a software developer in BAML. We noticed that Asia/Singapore had its SGT abbreviation dropped in tzdb 2017, and the reason being is that the zone abbreviation doesn't correspond to any real-world usage. But it's actually not entirely true, SGT is very commonly used in Singapore and it's also a standard abbreviation for Singapore time. Please refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations Wondering if it's possible to add SGT back to IANA db as I believe this change will cause breaks to other libraries rely on it. (We're using pytz for python development). I am happy to discuss and appreciate any thoughts you may have on it. Thanks, Can ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message.
On 02/19/2018 06:55 PM, Lu, Can via tz wrote:
SGT is very commonly used in Singapore and it’s also a standard abbreviation for Singapore time. Please refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations
Those two sources are not reliable for real-world use, as they're derived from old versions of the tz database itself. If SGT is commonly used independtly of tzdata (in the main newspapers of Singapore, government sources and the like), that would be good evidence for its inclusion in tzdata. My impression, though, is that it's not that common in practice; though I found some occurrences in Singaporean sources, it wasn't all that common, perhaps in part because SGT also stands for "Sergeant", a use far more common than the time-zone use.
On Feb 20, 2018, at 2:40 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 02/19/2018 06:55 PM, Lu, Can via tz wrote:
SGT is very commonly used in Singapore and it’s also a standard abbreviation for Singapore time. Please refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zone_abbreviations
Those two sources
One source, actually - both point at the same Wikipedia page...
are not reliable for real-world use, as they're derived from old versions of the tz database itself.
...which has This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. at the top. It has 7 references (plus a non-reference footnote), one of which (for Ireland) is to a law, and the rest of which point to Web sites that may or may not be authoritative - e.g., they may just be using the tzdb as their source. Most of the time zone abbreviations have *no* reference, so, again, they may have gotten the abbreviations from the tzdb, in Yet Another case of a process similar to citeogenesis: https://xkcd.com/978/
Thanks Guy/Paul, the 2nd source is also from wikipeida: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Standard_Time In real world, as I've been living in Singapore for many years, people do use SGT refer to the local time. Please consider add it back to tzdb if possible. Cheers, Can -----Original Message----- From: Guy Harris [mailto:guy@alum.mit.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:25 PM To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> Cc: Lu, Can <can.lu@baml.com>; Time Zone Mailing List <tz@iana.org> Subject: Re: [tz] SGT abbreviation is missing from the IANA tz database On Feb 20, 2018, at 2:40 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 02/19/2018 06:55 PM, Lu, Can via tz wrote:
SGT is very commonly used in Singapore and it’s also a standard abbreviation for Singapore time. Please refer to: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_L... and https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_L...
Those two sources
One source, actually - both point at the same Wikipedia page...
are not reliable for real-world use, as they're derived from old versions of the tz database itself.
...which has This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. at the top. It has 7 references (plus a non-reference footnote), one of which (for Ireland) is to a law, and the rest of which point to Web sites that may or may not be authoritative - e.g., they may just be using the tzdb as their source. Most of the time zone abbreviations have *no* reference, so, again, they may have gotten the abbreviations from the tzdb, in Yet Another case of a process similar to citeogenesis: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__xkcd.com_978_&d=DwIFaQ&... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message.
FWIW, The Singapore National Metrology Centre refers to Singapore Standard Time as SST (not SGT). https://www.a-star.edu.sg/nmc/Science-and-Technology/Time-Frequency.aspx ________________________________ From: tz <tz-bounces@iana.org> on behalf of Lu, Can via tz <tz@iana.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 9:05 PM To: Guy Harris; Paul Eggert Cc: Time Zone Mailing List Subject: Re: [tz] SGT abbreviation is missing from the IANA tz database Thanks Guy/Paul, the 2nd source is also from wikipeida: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikiped... In real world, as I've been living in Singapore for many years, people do use SGT refer to the local time. Please consider add it back to tzdb if possible. Cheers, Can -----Original Message----- From: Guy Harris [mailto:guy@alum.mit.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 12:25 PM To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> Cc: Lu, Can <can.lu@baml.com>; Time Zone Mailing List <tz@iana.org> Subject: Re: [tz] SGT abbreviation is missing from the IANA tz database On Feb 20, 2018, at 2:40 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 02/19/2018 06:55 PM, Lu, Can via tz wrote:
SGT is very commonly used in Singapore and it’s also a standard abbreviation for Singapore time. Please refer to: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense... and https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense...
Those two sources
One source, actually - both point at the same Wikipedia page...
are not reliable for real-world use, as they're derived from old versions of the tz database itself.
...which has This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. at the top. It has 7 references (plus a non-reference footnote), one of which (for Ireland) is to a law, and the rest of which point to Web sites that may or may not be authoritative - e.g., they may just be using the tzdb as their source. Most of the time zone abbreviations have *no* reference, so, again, they may have gotten the abbreviations from the tzdb, in Yet Another case of a process similar to citeogenesis: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bankofa.... If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message.
participants (4)
-
Guy Harris -
Lu, Can -
Matt Johnson -
Paul Eggert