"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem." https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html @dashdashado
It was a time transfer error - the mission elapsed time clock was off by 11 hours because it took the wrong time from the Atlas at separation. They were very lucky not to lose the spacecraft. https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/something-went-wrong-with-the-starli... Regards Marshall Eubanks On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:15 PM Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html
@dashdashado
Here's the NYT article that mentions the 11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 and an interesting (though "armchair") analysis, noting that the mission countdown started at T-11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 . On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:42 PM Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> wrote:
It was a time transfer error - the mission elapsed time clock was off by 11 hours because it took the wrong time from the Atlas at separation. They were very lucky not to lose the spacecraft.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/something-went-wrong-with-the-starli...
Regards Marshall Eubanks
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:15 PM Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html
@dashdashado
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
Oops. The correct NYT link for the 11 hours: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/science/boeing-starliner-landing.html . On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 5:46 PM Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote:
Here's the NYT article that mentions the 11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 and an interesting (though "armchair") analysis, noting that the mission countdown started at T-11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:42 PM Marshall Eubanks < marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> wrote:
It was a time transfer error - the mission elapsed time clock was off by 11 hours because it took the wrong time from the Atlas at separation. They were very lucky not to lose the spacecraft.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/something-went-wrong-with-the-starli...
Regards Marshall Eubanks
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:15 PM Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html
@dashdashado
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
11h... Sure smells like a time zone issue. Such as not taking time zones into account, or taking them into account incorrectly. Fwiw, there’s an 11h difference between Cape Canaveral (launch site) and India (popular location for outsourced programming). It would be great to know the facts... Howard On Dec 24, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote:
Oops. The correct NYT link for the 11 hours: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/science/boeing-starliner-landing.html .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 5:46 PM Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote: Here's the NYT article that mentions the 11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 and an interesting (though "armchair") analysis, noting that the mission countdown started at T-11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:42 PM Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> wrote: It was a time transfer error - the mission elapsed time clock was off by 11 hours because it took the wrong time from the Atlas at separation. They were very lucky not to lose the spacecraft.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/something-went-wrong-with-the-starli...
Regards Marshall Eubanks
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:15 PM Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html
@dashdashado
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 10:03 PM Howard Hinnant <howard.hinnant@gmail.com> wrote:
11h... Sure smells like a time zone issue. Such as not taking time zones into account, or taking them into account incorrectly. Fwiw, there’s an 11h difference between Cape Canaveral (launch site) and India (popular location for outsourced programming).
No, India is 5 hours and 30 minutes ahead of UTC and 10 hr 30 min ahead of EST, and that half an hour does indeed matter. Regards Marshall
It would be great to know the facts...
Howard
On Dec 24, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote:
Oops. The correct NYT link for the 11 hours: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/science/boeing-starliner-landing.html .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 5:46 PM Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote: Here's the NYT article that mentions the 11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 and an interesting (though "armchair") analysis, noting that the mission countdown started at T-11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:42 PM Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> wrote: It was a time transfer error - the mission elapsed time clock was off by 11 hours because it took the wrong time from the Atlas at separation. They were very lucky not to lose the spacecraft.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/something-went-wrong-with-the-starli...
Regards Marshall Eubanks
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:15 PM Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html
@dashdashado
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
Ah, my mistake. I missed the 30min, thanks. Howard On Dec 24, 2019, at 10:11 PM, Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 10:03 PM Howard Hinnant <howard.hinnant@gmail.com> wrote:
11h... Sure smells like a time zone issue. Such as not taking time zones into account, or taking them into account incorrectly. Fwiw, there’s an 11h difference between Cape Canaveral (launch site) and India (popular location for outsourced programming).
No, India is 5 hours and 30 minutes ahead of UTC and 10 hr 30 min ahead of EST, and that half an hour does indeed matter.
Regards Marshall
It would be great to know the facts...
Howard
On Dec 24, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote:
Oops. The correct NYT link for the 11 hours: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/science/boeing-starliner-landing.html .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 5:46 PM Alan Mintz <alan.mintz@gmail.com> wrote: Here's the NYT article that mentions the 11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 and an interesting (though "armchair") analysis, noting that the mission countdown started at T-11 hours: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43958.860 .
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:42 PM Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> wrote: It was a time transfer error - the mission elapsed time clock was off by 11 hours because it took the wrong time from the Atlas at separation. They were very lucky not to lose the spacecraft.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/something-went-wrong-with-the-starli...
Regards Marshall Eubanks
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 4:15 PM Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
"Boeing Starliner Ends Up In Wrong Orbit After Clock Problem."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/science/boeing-starliner-launch.html
@dashdashado
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
-- Alan Mintz <Alan.Mintz@gMail.com>
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 at 22:03, Howard Hinnant <howard.hinnant@gmail.com> wrote:
11h... Sure smells like a time zone issue. Such as not taking time zones into account, or taking them into account incorrectly. Fwiw, there’s an 11h difference between Cape Canaveral (launch site) and India (popular location for outsourced programming).
I have seen speculation on Twitter (unsubstantiated, of course) that it is related to the difference between Cape Canaveral (currently UTC-5) and the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan (UTC+6). But anything of that sort would of course raise the question of why *any* local time is being used rather than UTC. It would be great to know the facts... Indeed. I've only seen the phrase "11 hours" in reports, but of course, if that's being used as an approximate figure rather than an exact one, there could be any number of other possible causes. -- Tim Parenti
On 2019-12-24, at 20:28:24, Tim Parenti wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 at 22:03, Howard Hinnant <howard.hinnant@gmail.com> wrote: 11h... Sure smells like a time zone issue. Such as not taking time zones into account, or taking them into account incorrectly. Fwiw, there’s an 11h difference between Cape Canaveral (launch site) and India (popular location for outsourced programming).
I have seen speculation on Twitter (unsubstantiated, of course) that it is related to the difference between Cape Canaveral (currently UTC-5) and the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan (UTC+6). But anything of that sort would of course raise the question of why any local time is being used rather than UTC.
One NASA convention is "Mission Elapsed Time": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Elapsed_Time ... but they still have to get it right.
It would be great to know the facts...
Indeed. I've only seen the phrase "11 hours" in reports, but of course, if that's being used as an approximate figure rather than an exact one, there could be any number of other possible causes.
In 1985 in Colorado, a fatal train wreck resulted from a scheduling error: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/RAR8602.aspx Speculation at the time, not confirmed in the NTSB report, was that one train on Friday picked handwritten orders for Saturday. -- gil
On 2019-12-24 21:37, Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
On 2019-12-24, at 20:28:24, Tim Parenti wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 at 22:03, Howard Hinnant <howard.hinnant@gmail.com> wrote: 11h... Sure smells like a time zone issue. Such as not taking time zones into account, or taking them into account incorrectly. Fwiw, there’s an 11h difference between Cape Canaveral (launch site) and India (popular location for outsourced programming).
I have seen speculation on Twitter (unsubstantiated, of course) that it is related to the difference between Cape Canaveral (currently UTC-5) and the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan (UTC+6). But anything of that sort would of course raise the question of why any local time is being used rather than UTC.
One NASA convention is "Mission Elapsed Time": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Elapsed_Time
... but they still have to get it right.
It would be great to know the facts...
...article has the added link: https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/12/oft-starliner-landing-white-sands/ linking to: https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/12/boeing-ula-momentous-starliner-uncre... https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/12/starliner-mission-shortening-failure... Some suggestion that powered up time was used and Centaur MET was *NOT* used! If so that would raise the suspicion that perhaps a test configuration may not have been reconfigured for flight. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised.
participants (7)
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Alan Mintz -
Arthur David Olson -
Brian Inglis -
Howard Hinnant -
Marshall Eubanks -
Paul Gilmartin -
Tim Parenti