The tzdb aims to support the actual use of time zones, rather than necessarily what the laws say. In keeping with that idea, wouldn't it make sense for tzdb to use the abbreviations that people actually use after the transition to permanent DST is complete? The problem, of course, is that we won't know ahead of time what abbreviations to use. A reasonable guess, however, is that people will continue to use whatever abbreviations they have been using. Thus, Phoenix will continue calling its time MST, Los Angeles PDT and Denver MDT. If that changes, the tzdb can always be updated in response. John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com) -- get my PGP public key with gpg --locate-external-keys John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com