Masayoshi Okutsu has been added to the time zone mailing list; this is a message sent before Masayoshi was added. --ado -----Original Message----- From: Masayoshi Okutsu [mailto:Masayoshi.Okutsu@Sun.COM] Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:35 AM To: Mark Davis Cc: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: Time Zone Localizations It's strange. I responded to your message about 13 hours ago, but it doesn't show up yet... Let me try again (with a short version). I believe you misunderstood my first question. It's simply an invalid assumption that a zone (in the Olson zoneinfo) represents a single time zone. How do you describe the following with the LDML spec, for example? # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Asia/Singapore 6:55:25 - LMT 1901 Jan 1 6:55:25 - SMT 1905 Jun 1 # Singapore M.T. 7:00 - MALT 1933 Jan 1 # Malaya Time 7:00 0:20 MALST 1936 Jan 1 7:20 - MALT 1941 Sep 1 7:30 - MALT 1942 Feb 16 9:00 - JST 1945 Sep 12 7:30 - MALT 1965 Aug 9 # independence 7:30 - SGT 1982 Jan 1 # Singapore Time 8:00 - SGT If the given date is, for example, 1942-02-16, the local time zone name has to be "JST" (in the short form). I didn't think LDML would allow for defining historical time zone names. I didn't mean "historical" tome zone *IDs*. (I really don't understand "modern" and "historical" in your message, though. All of (most of?) the zones are modern. They just have their own history. And we just don't know what will happen to zones in the future. What you think is "modern" today might be "historical" tomorrow.) Thanks, Masayoshi Mark Davis wrote:
I don't know where you are getting that. They are *not* user-defined IDs. The text in http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/ defines the IDs as matching the IDs in ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/. See also http://www.unicode.org/cldr/data_formats.html#Display_Names also.
Mark __________________________________ http://www.macchiato.com ► शिष्यादिच्छेत्पराजयम् ◄
----- Original Message ----- From: "Masayoshi Okutsu" <Masayoshi.Okutsu@Sun.COM> To: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@jtcsv.com> Cc: <tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov> Sent: Fri, 2004 Jun 11 08:41 Subject: Re: Time Zone Localizations
Mark Davis wrote:
Actually, this is directly related, since LDML is the format used for CLDR. However, the comment is based on a misunderstanding: LDML currently does allow for translation of *all* of the timezone IDs, modern and historical.
I guess you don't translate timezone IDs... Anyway, do you mean that LDML allows users to define DTD? (Sorry if this is not a correct way to talk about XML...) So the syntax of <zone> is really user-defined?
Thanks, Masayoshi
The problems we are trying to address with this proposal are that the sheer volume of translations is difficult to manage, *and* many languages just don't have corresponding terms. And we didn't give guidance before as to which IDs were the most important to translate, so the translations that are in CLDR were not done in any kind of priority order.
Mark __________________________________ http://www.macchiato.com ► शिष्यादिच्छेत्पराजयम् ◄
----- Original Message ----- From: "Masayoshi Okutsu" <Masayoshi.Okutsu@Sun.COM> To: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@jtcsv.com> Cc: <tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov> Sent: Fri, 2004 Jun 11 06:43 Subject: Re: Time Zone Localizations
This is a bit off from the proposal, but related to time zone localizations.
It appears that the Locale Data Markup Language spec for <timeZoneNames> (http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/#%3CtimeZoneNames%3E) assumes that a time zone has a single set of long and short names, which assumption is not valid if a system supports historical time zone changes. Actually, the time zone support in Java has this problem because it supports historical changes since 1.4 and always display the "latest" time zone names. I planned to fix it in J2SE 1.5 (a.k.a. Tiger), but I couldn't due to another commitment.
Is it possible for CLDR to make corrections to the <timeZoneNames> spec so that it can represent all historical name changes?
Thanks, -- Masayoshi Okutsu Java Internationalization Sun Microsystems (K.K.)
Mark Davis wrote:
The common locale data repository project (CLDR) hosted by the Unicode consortium (www.unicode.org/cldr/) provides for translations of time zone IDs, based on the public domain time zone database at ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/.
A
number of issues have come up concerning those translations, and we have put together a proposal for changing the way that is done. The goal would be to
make
changes in CLDR 1.1, which would be released around mid-October of this year. The current version of the proposal is at:
http://oss.software.ibm.com/cvs/icu/~checkout~/icuhtml/design/formatt ing/time_
z
one_localization.html
I'd very much appreciate any feedback on the proposal.
Mark __________________________________ http://www.macchiato.com ► शिष्यादिच्छेत्पराजयम् ◄