Alejandro, ese título, es el título del documento que hizo ICANN, si ves el borrador solo lo nombramos como referencia del documento madre, coincido plenamente con vos y con Mauro que es poco feliz hablar de cómo nos reunimos y es mucho más pertinente hablar de cómo trabajamos el cual es el globalizante de nuestra tarea diaria. Sigamos trabajando amigo. Un fuerte abrazo *Sergio Salinas Porto**Presidente Internauta Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN <https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo>**Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar/>/FeTIA <http://www.fetia.org.ar/>**FUILAC- Federación de Usuarios de Internet de LAC <https://fuilac.org>**facebook: salinasporto <http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> **twitter: sergiosalinas <http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas>**Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819**"Ojalá podamos ser desobedientes, cada vez que recibimos órdenes que humillan nuestra * * conciencia o violan nuestro sentido común" Eduardo Galeano* El lun, 29 jul 2024 a las 18:46, Alejandro Pisanty (<apisanty@gmail.com>) escribió:
Sergio,
el punto que quiero enfatizar, en coincidencia con Mauro, es que "Cómo trabajamos" es determinante para "cómo nos reunimos". Estamos atacando lo adjetivo sin haber abordado lo sustantivo.
Alejandro Pisanty
On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 3:44 PM Sergio Salinas Porto < presidencia@internauta.org.ar> wrote:
Estimado Alejandro, el 25 de julio envié un email como Secretario de la region motivado a partir de un debate que se estaba haciendo en whatsapp y que entendía que debía hacerse por el canal institucional que era este,la lista de email de LACRALO que permite a su vez ser traducida al idioma Inglés . No entiendo a que se refiere el email cuando dice (Cito textual): "... es imprescindible que ese documento sea distribuido cuanto antes por el Directorio, por la vía oficial de esta lista, y que dicho Directorio active la discusión necesaria..." Ya que el email que envié contenía:
a) El Artículo periodístico que hizo surgir el debate: https://domainincite.com/30050-smaller-more-intense-icann-meetings-with-no-f...
b) Documento de discución: https://domainincite.com/docs/HowWeMeet-CommunityDiscussionPaper-8July2024.p...
c) Un Documento borrador con los items que habian surgido en el grupo de whatsapp de LACRALO: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jDxMBGBdGw8Rem1fJkNN2hh5mp38jkeMwKm6BBkL...
Con esta documentación y poniendo en relieve que esta gestión cumple con los estándares suficientes de institucionalidad que nuestras costumbres y leyes nos enmarcan, pusimos todos estos documentos en un lugar de fácil acceso a todos para que se pueda participar activamente tomando todas las opiniones como válidas, incluidas las que se han vertido en esta lista, la cual en el transcurso de mañana tendremos el documento final elaborado conforme los aportes valiosos de nuestros compañeros de la comunidad regional.
Te saludo a vos y a toda la region enviándoles un afectuoso saludo
*Sergio Salinas Porto**Presidente Internauta Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN <https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo>**Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar/>/FeTIA <http://www.fetia.org.ar/>**FUILAC- Federación de Usuarios de Internet de LAC <https://fuilac.org>**facebook: salinasporto <http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> **twitter: sergiosalinas <http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas>**Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819**"Ojalá podamos ser desobedientes, cada vez que recibimos órdenes que humillan nuestra *
* conciencia o violan nuestro sentido común" Eduardo Galeano*
El lun, 29 jul 2024 a las 18:15, Alejandro Pisanty via lac-discuss-es (< lac-discuss-es@icann.org>) escribió:
Colegas,
es necesario atraer la atención sobre este mensaje de Mauro Ríos e iniciar cuanto antes actividades sobre el documento "Cómo trabajamos" de ICANN.
Como atinadamente insiste Alberto, es imprescindible que ese documento sea distribuido cuanto antes por el Directorio, por la vía oficial de esta lista, y que dicho Directorio active la discusión necesaria. La autocomplacencia en esta materia deslegitimará aun más el documento sobre la política de reuniones y viajes haciéndolo ver como una queja por el recurso a cuya posible pérdida se reacciona como una amenaza y no como una oportunidad de mejora orientada no a la comunidad sino, como debiera ser, a construir una mejor participación de la comunidad para que ICANN sirva más a aquellos a quienes está obligada a servir.
Alejandro Pisanty
On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 6:39 PM Mauro D. Rios via lac-discuss-es < lac-discuss-es@icann.org> wrote:
Dear all,
Beyond the document presented, the key point of "how we meet" is the very fact of meeting. And this seems like a trivial comment, but it is actually a request for transparency.
Many have made their defenses in situations where the community was not given participation or was not informed of a relevant issue or a situation that merited it.
Not everything deserves a meeting, but when the mechanism of meetings is one of the few mechanisms for transparency and communication of the organization's performance, it becomes more relevant to be clear about how this mechanism becomes effective and useful.
A meeting is not a one-way instance to inform, it is an instance of exchange, participation, dialogue and discussion. I think that, from the speeches I have read, and with which I mostly agree, it is an important demand to move from a system of dissemination to a system of more open participation.
Having said all the above, the "how we meet" is out of place since meeting is a manifestation of "how we work", so you cannot address how to meet without first knowing how we work. It seems like a tongue twister, but it turns out to be a problem of organization and coherence. Let's imagine that we are constructing a building, it would be incoherent to meet to know how the construction is going, without knowing or having defined how it will be built.
Meetings, mailing lists, etc., are manifestations and a communicational instrument that is a consequence of the basis on which to communicate, if not, they are futile and empty instruments. Because we must add that meetings are usually environments where a few co-opt them, showing a verbiage full of expressiveness and sometimes very little useful content. While the most fearful, the isolated, the ignored or the timid of the community, continue to remain on the sidelines overwhelmed by so much talk and sometimes imposition. This happens to more serious instances when events, trips, encounters, always show the same faces. (And I could add a subjective thought of mine, those of us who are part of several Internet governance bodies, can affirm that even those faces are sometimes repetitively the same in several instances of these organizations)
ICANN, like other organizations, suffers from the low turnout syndrome, this manifests itself event after event, meeting after meeting, zoom after zoom. We put everything from the community and leaders to keep the flame alive, but it is a reality that we are not achieving the best results, so I repeat that first we must address how we work.
The document raises generalities, but it is necessary to translate these generalities into facts, into more pragmatic proposals. How? Who? When? are just some of the questions that the document does not answer and must be taken to ground level, because if we leave these questions flying, the document will not end up curdling the ideas, even if the ideas are well-intentioned.
Behind all this, the document does very well to raise the need to seek to economize the efforts behind the calls, but the document does not provide clarity on how to achieve savings in other issues (because although it mentions other savings they are always in relation to or linked to the meetings). The economy and savings do not necessarily always have to come from the organization of the community meetings themselves, because it is possible that if you save on other issues, you can allocate more money in some calls, for example, by giving scholarships to the community, giving resources to the community to generate local nodes of the calls, and a long etcetera.
I fully share the idea of debating which meetings should be face-to-face, hybrid or virtual, however, I do not see in the document contributions on the impact of the call based on the hybrid modality, something that we will have to analyze and especially its link to teleworking, which proved not to be the panacea we thought.
Another coincidence is that point 2 links the planning of meetings or meeting cycles with the implementation of the work itself. He is right, as I have said, you cannot debate and analyse meetings if you do not first talk about how we work. And I disagree that at the same point other savings are mentioned again, for example, travel, but always linked to meetings. Has it not occurred to anyone to analyze other savings within the immense structure of ICANN and the enormous number of activities and work that the organization does?
It is clear that demanding the results of their work from each group in the community is obvious, but for this to happen, we must restructure how we work in general and keep these community groups more internalized from the general strategy of the organization and its small strategies. Groups are not machinery that replicates directives, they are nests of creation of ideas, of work, they are factories of projects, of improvement actions, they are groups of free thought.
I think it is a very good initiative to encourage meetings between groups of the community, that is, to encourage a more horizontal dialogue and not so much a vertical one. Seek to promote meetings that feed community groups back into each other and not be mere vertical recipients. These meetings must also receive the support of the organization in exchange for feedback that feeds a base of knowledge, ideas, initiatives, and projects born from the base of the community.
I do not agree that support for the holding of a meeting is related to the benefit that such a meeting will bring to the organization. Simply because you can't evaluate results before the fact itself. Whether the objective and content of a meeting could be evaluated to determine whether it is of minor relevance or completely aligned with the organization's overall strategy.
It is truly clear that ICANN's public meetings have grown almost amorphously, it is enough to read the agendas to notice organized chaos. There is a point of optimization and above all of achieving greater effectiveness of these meetings. Even a quick reading is enough to notice that many times the issues do not convene, and this does not mean that they are not important, they simply do not accompany the interest of the community.
It is mentioned that integrating ICANN public meeting planning into annual work plans will require each community group to identify its focus and policy objectives in advance. So we come back to the point that we are talking about how we gather when we must first analyze how we improve the way we work.
Saludos,
Mauro.-
On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 9:34 AM Alberto Soto via lac-discuss-es < lac-discuss-es@icann.org> wrote:
Estimados, les adjunto el documento Como nos reunimos, en español, traducido automáticamente con el traductor de Microsoft.
Solo le di una rápida leída, y solo veo sugerencias que hacen a bajar costos, sin ninguna que haga a la eficiencia actual y la eficiencia en caso de adoptarse las mismas.
Saludos cordiales
Alberto Soto
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-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list -- lac-discuss-es@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to lac-discuss-es-leave@icann.org
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-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _______________________________________________ lac-discuss-es mailing list -- lac-discuss-es@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to lac-discuss-es-leave@icann.org
http://www.lacralo.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .