As a slight nuance (but I think important), I think what we agreed to is that emojis are not part of the current standard for IDN/DNS. As such it is out of scope for UASG. I do not think we support/not-support the development of emoji domains… but the right place to start that discussion may be IETF (not UASG), since the technical protocols need to be updated first for it to become a standard before we can talk about UA readiness for it. Edmon From: UA-discuss [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 5:37 AM To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux Yep. For the record, UASG does not support the use of emojis in domain names. I think we explicitly declared that during the Seattle meeting in April 2017. From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 11:01 AM To: Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com> > Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux …as if we did not have enough troubles with the serious stuff… On 01.03.2018, at 17:46, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss <ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> > wrote: <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com...> https://gizmodo.com/emoji-domains-are-the-future-maybe-1823319626

On 3/1/2018 4:22 PM, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss wrote:

Good clarification.  Rephrasing: UASG does not consider support for emojis as domain names to be part of our current scope or charter.

We are driving adoption of standards, and emojis are outside the standards.

It's more than that, surely. We want users to have a seamless experience - and that includes not being exposed to domain names that are inherently risky. UASG could do more to help address (and limit) the unavoidable risks involved. The article quoted at least gives a nod to some of the problems inherent in emoji. There are risks also in many "naive" implementation of IDNs. And these added risks are unnecessary - they are not caused by enabling useful IDNs, but by doing it in a way that needlessly increases the attack surface - for no credible gain in usability. A./

(I actually drafted a response to SSAC095, arguing that emojis could be brought into a future update of IDNA, but that was a Microsoft perspective on a theoretical topic, orthogonal to the goals and activities of UASG.

*From:* Edmon [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] *Sent:* Thursday, March 1, 2018 3:15 PM *To:* Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com>; 'Roberto Gaetano' <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Cc:* ua-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* RE: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux

As a slight nuance (but I think important), I think what we agreed to is that emojis are not part of the current standard for IDN/DNS. As such it is out of scope for UASG.

I do not think we support/not-support the development of emoji domains… but the right place to start that discussion may be IETF (not UASG), since the technical protocols need to be updated first for it to become a standard before we can talk about UA readiness for it.

Edmon

*From:* UA-discuss [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss *Sent:* Friday, March 2, 2018 5:37 AM *To:* Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> *Cc:* ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux

Yep.

For the record, UASG does not support the use of emojis in domain names.  I think we explicitly declared that during the Seattle meeting in April 2017.

*From:* Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 1, 2018 11:01 AM *To:* Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> *Cc:* ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux

…as if we did not have enough troubles with the serious stuff…

On 01.03.2018, at 17:46, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss <ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org>> wrote:

https://gizmodo.com/emoji-domains-are-the-future-maybe-1823319626 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com...>

One could argue similarly that social benefit to emojis does not outweigh the impact their review and adoption have on the Unicode community, but here we are 😊 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 4:59 PM To: Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com> Cc: Edmon <edmon@registry.asia>; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux Folks, It might just be that I am in a bad mood tonight, but it seems to me that there is a substantial “social” difference on top of the “technical” difference related to being a standard or not. While UA of IDNs will allow the underserved communities of non-ASCI-script people to access the Internet on par with the ASCII-script population, there is no social benefit in allowing emojis - although some folks might indeed think that they can make a lot of money with fancy vanity domain names - but this is hardly an outcome towards which I am personally inclined to volunteer time and effort. But again, it might just be my bad mood, and somebody can convince me tomorrow of how great progress for the humanity would be the development a framework for facilitating emojis. Cheers, Roberto On 02.03.2018, at 01:22, Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> wrote: Good clarification. Rephrasing: UASG does not consider support for emojis as domain names to be part of our current scope or charter. We are driving adoption of standards, and emojis are outside the standards. (I actually drafted a response to SSAC095, arguing that emojis could be brought into a future update of IDNA, but that was a Microsoft perspective on a theoretical topic, orthogonal to the goals and activities of UASG. From: Edmon [mailto:edmon@registry.asia] Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 3:15 PM To: Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>>; 'Roberto Gaetano' <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux As a slight nuance (but I think important), I think what we agreed to is that emojis are not part of the current standard for IDN/DNS. As such it is out of scope for UASG. I do not think we support/not-support the development of emoji domains… but the right place to start that discussion may be IETF (not UASG), since the technical protocols need to be updated first for it to become a standard before we can talk about UA readiness for it. Edmon From: UA-discuss [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 5:37 AM To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux Yep. For the record, UASG does not support the use of emojis in domain names. I think we explicitly declared that during the Seattle meeting in April 2017. From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 11:01 AM To: Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com<mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux …as if we did not have enough troubles with the serious stuff… On 01.03.2018, at 17:46, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss <ua-discuss@icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org>> wrote: https://gizmodo.com/emoji-domains-are-the-future-maybe-1823319626<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com%2Femoji-domains-are-the-future-maybe-1823319626&data=04%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7Ced2a181d6e734078b06508d57fa6cd66%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636555276751685116%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwifQ%3D%3D%7C-1&sdata=Z85DZ%2F4p6gNkeotNhimkKdajYFoGGRHPCEw12ym70sE%3D&reserved=0>

To say more, We might see something similar to LGRs for emojis, due some of those not distinguishable by colour blinded people. For example this portal filters our colours according to types of issues https://www.toptal.com/designers/colorfilter <https://www.toptal.com/designers/colorfilter> and if you check something with full list of 11.0 emojis ... some of them looks quite similar (as example http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-16/a-partial-list-of-emoji-coming-to-unic... <http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-16/a-partial-list-of-emoji-coming-to-unic...> ) P.s: it is another can of worms Sincerely Yours, Maxim Alzoba Special projects manager, International Relations Department, FAITID m. +7 916 6761580(+whatsapp) skype oldfrogger Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)

On 2 Mar 2018, at 04:29, Tan Tanaka, Dennis via UA-discuss <ua-discuss@icann.org> wrote:

+1

Dennis

On Mar 1, 2018, at 6:14 PM, Edmon <edmon@registry.asia <mailto:edmon@registry.asia>> wrote:

...

As a slight nuance (but I think important), I think what we agreed to is that emojis are not part of the current standard for IDN/DNS. As such it is out of scope for UASG.

I do not think we support/not-support the development of emoji domains… but the right place to start that discussion may be IETF (not UASG), since the technical protocols need to be updated first for it to become a standard before we can talk about UA readiness for it.

Edmon

From: UA-discuss [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 5:37 AM To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux

Yep. For the record, UASG does not support the use of emojis in domain names. I think we explicitly declared that during the Seattle meeting in April 2017.

From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2018 11:01 AM To: Mark Svancarek <marksv@microsoft.com <mailto:marksv@microsoft.com>> Cc: ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux

…as if we did not have enough troubles with the serious stuff…

On 01.03.2018, at 17:46, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss <ua-discuss@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org>> wrote:

https://gizmodo.com/emoji-domains-are-the-future-maybe-1823319626 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgizmodo.com...>

On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 07:59:05PM +0000, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss wrote:

Yep, you would need LGRs, rules about colors, accessibility technologies, etc.

Except that you can't make such rules because they're not controlled by the sending side (i.e. they're not all actually properties of the code point as such), and because normalisation doesn't work. I think we've explored this rathole before, however, so I don't think it needs another full airing :) A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com

It will be more fun to argue about this tonight at Krakenfest. From: UA-discuss <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Asmus Freytag Sent: Friday, March 2, 2018 12:45 PM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Emoji domain names redux On 3/2/2018 12:16 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 07:59:05PM +0000, Mark Svancarek via UA-discuss wrote: Yep, you would need LGRs, rules about colors, accessibility technologies, etc. Except that you can't make such rules because they're not controlled by the sending side (i.e. they're not all actually properties of the code point as such), and because normalisation doesn't work. I think we've explored this rathole before, however, so I don't think it needs another full airing :) A Those facts, however, are not clear by people equating emoji with a picture of a heart. A./