Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years...
On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
I mis-stated that .INFO was the world’s first 4-character TLD - .ARPA came before J t/h David Conrad *From:* Ram Mohan [mailto:rmohan@afilias.info] *Sent:* Wednesday, September 28, 2016 1:50 PM *To:* UA-discuss@icann.org (UA-discuss@icann.org) *Subject:* Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
True geek ☺ From: <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> Date: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 4:53 PM To: "UA-discuss@icann.org" <UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I mis-stated that .INFO was the world’s first 4-character TLD - .ARPA came before ☺ t/h David Conrad From: Ram Mohan [mailto:rmohan@afilias.info<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info>] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 1:50 PM To: UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> (UA-discuss@icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org>) Subject: Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. [cid:image001.png@01D219AE.4390E960] Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan<mailto:|@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan>
Speaking of geeky, Rich's email finally made me go ahead and look up an answer to this: https://chrisjean.com/mystery-of-the-email-j-finally-solved/ Christian Dawson Chairman & Co-founder Internet Infrastructure Coalition (i2C) c: 703 623 2612 http://i2coalition.com PGP: 22DF5493 Fingerprint: 7C95 A3BE 1E10 4864 8417 DCED B9E1 C8FD 22DF 5493
On Sep 28, 2016, at 6:31 PM, Richard Merdinger <rmerdinger@godaddy.com> wrote:
True geek J
From: <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> Date: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 4:53 PM To: "UA-discuss@icann.org" <UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years...
I mis-stated that .INFO was the world’s first 4-character TLD - .ARPA came before J t/h David Conrad
From: Ram Mohan [mailto:rmohan@afilias.info] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 1:50 PM To: UA-discuss@icann.org (UA-discuss@icann.org) Subject: Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years...
On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls.
Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message.
<image001.png>
Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
Ram- This example you provided is a good one - because it demonstrates something different within the UA which is potential bias by the programmer or user specifications of the development or IT team against non-COM/NET. On the one hand, there is the Y2K-like issue where 'VALID' TLDs were hard coded and caused exceptions due to lack of awareness. On the other hand this appears to be that there was awareness of other TLDs. I have found it particularly challenging to overcome such bias for status quo as a part of convincing developers that code requires revisiting to accommodate the new normal. -Jothan Jothan Frakes Tel: +1.206-355-0230 On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote:
On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls.
Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message.
Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
Ram Mohan
Executive Vice President & CTO
Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China
o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701
Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
Jothan, A very useful insight about inherent bias, and the challenge of overcoming it. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan *From:* Jothan Frakes [mailto:jothan@jothan.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, September 28, 2016 8:33 PM *To:* Ram Mohan *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... Ram- This example you provided is a good one - because it demonstrates something different within the UA which is potential bias by the programmer or user specifications of the development or IT team against non-COM/NET. On the one hand, there is the Y2K-like issue where 'VALID' TLDs were hard coded and caused exceptions due to lack of awareness. On the other hand this appears to be that there was awareness of other TLDs. I have found it particularly challenging to overcome such bias for status quo as a part of convincing developers that code requires revisiting to accommodate the new normal. -Jothan Jothan Frakes Tel: +1.206-355-0230 On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> wrote: On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. Jiankang Yao From: Ram Mohan Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: UA-discuss Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com +1.310.400.4184 Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> wrote:
Dear Ram,
I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer.
Another 15+ years are needed for UA work.
Jiankang Yao
From: Ram Mohan Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: UA-discuss Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls.
Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message.
<image001(09-29-10-27-48).png>
Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
That is why we should provide libraries and implementation suggestions (good practice guides), so that management can then let them know also that go look at the UASG website for some information. Edmon From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Pritz Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016 14:51 PM To: Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> +1.310.400.4184 Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn <mailto:yaojk@cnnic.cn> > wrote: Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. _____ Jiankang Yao From: <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> Ram Mohan Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> UA-discuss Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world's first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it's galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. <image001(09-29-10-27-48).png> Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG's work is important. -Ram ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123| <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan> www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :) It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this. Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too. Ram On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com> wrote:
Ram:
I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer:
Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content.
Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this?
Boss: Zero.
So, semi-smart solution for no budget.
Kurt
________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com +1.310.400.4184 Skype: kjpritz
On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> wrote:
Dear Ram,
I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer.
Another 15+ years are needed for UA work.
------------------------------ Jiankang Yao
*From:* Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> *Date:* 2016-09-29 01:50 *To:* UA-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject:* [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls.
Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message.
<image001(09-29-10-27-48).png>
Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
As we look at outreach and efforts to accept issue reports and loop-close on reported issues, it will be extremely useful to include links to materials that will enable bosses to send to their engineering teams saying…hey, do it like this. --Rich From: <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:03 AM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :) It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this. Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too. Ram On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com>> wrote: Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> +1.310.400.4184<tel:%2B1.310.400.4184> Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn<mailto:yaojk@cnnic.cn>> wrote: Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. ________________________________ Jiankang Yao From: Ram Mohan<mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: UA-discuss<mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. <image001(09-29-10-27-48).png> Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103<tel:%2B1.215.706.5700%20x103>; m: +1.215.431.0958<tel:%2B1.215.431.0958>; f: +1.215.706.5701<tel:%2B1.215.706.5701> Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan<http://www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan>
Dear all, By following discussion, I get the feeling that we need to find the way from the boss to programmer, or how to move boss to solve this issue. In my opinion, the only way to get boss’s reaction is to explain to him that he’s losing money. When he realize that clients are going to some competitive service, he will make the budget for programmer. The real problem is that users are not stubborn in using IDN or NewG email addresses, and after service gives them error message, they switch to alternative, regular mail. We all do that, it’s in our BIOS, our nature. So, there is no money lost and no problem for the boss. Few stubborn users, who cares. IDN (and NewGs for now) are like opera music. It’s not mainstream, it means culture, few of them are listening and enjoying opera, but mainstream is somewhere else. No, my conclusion is not that we need Kim Kardashian to promote IDNs and NewGs. J We need to change the user system of logic, by covering all issues that we possibly can, talking with big developers to adapt their systems (Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Google, Yandex…) and to create environment of “POSSIBLE”. After that, users will adapt their habbits to new environment. It’s evolution. F.E. / For IDNs, it’s very logical to have right moves (besides big guys) in big countries where English alphabet is native (China, India, Russia). NewGs are going stronger in number of domain names, so the problems there are becoming global problem and users are changing habbits each day. @Ram first I like to thank You as one of the pioneers in non 2/3 character TLDs, and to tell You that I will be happy if this problem can be solved in next 15 years. But I doubt, and the fight that You started, will be here for a very long time in the future J Cheers, Dusan From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Richard Merdinger Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 6:48 PM To: Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... As we look at outreach and efforts to accept issue reports and loop-close on reported issues, it will be extremely useful to include links to materials that will enable bosses to send to their engineering teams saying…hey, do it like this. --Rich From: <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > on behalf of Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> > Date: Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:03 AM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :) It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this. Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too. Ram On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > wrote: Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> +1.310.400.4184 <tel:%2B1.310.400.4184> Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn <mailto:yaojk@cnnic.cn> > wrote: Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. _____ Jiankang Yao From: <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> Ram Mohan Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> UA-discuss Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. <image001(09-29-10-27-48).png> Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103 <tel:%2B1.215.706.5700%20x103> ; m: +1.215.431.0958 <tel:%2B1.215.431.0958> ; f: +1.215.706.5701 <tel:%2B1.215.706.5701> Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123| <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan> www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
I think we do need Kim Kardashian to promote new gTLDs too. Now, I am not sure that it is a good idea if suggesting this to her comes from a French person. On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Dusan Stojicevic <dusan@dukes.in.rs> wrote:
Dear all,
By following discussion, I get the feeling that we need to find the way from the boss to programmer, or how to move boss to solve this issue.
In my opinion, the only way to get boss’s reaction is to explain to him that he’s losing money.
When he realize that clients are going to some competitive service, he will make the budget for programmer.
The real problem is that users are not stubborn in using IDN or NewG email addresses, and after service gives them error message, they switch to alternative, regular mail.
We all do that, it’s in our BIOS, our nature. So, there is no money lost and no problem for the boss. Few stubborn users, who cares.
IDN (and NewGs for now) are like opera music. It’s not mainstream, it means culture, few of them are listening and enjoying opera, but mainstream is somewhere else.
No, my conclusion is not that we need Kim Kardashian to promote IDNs and NewGs. J We need to change the user system of logic, by covering all issues that we possibly can, talking with big developers to adapt their systems (Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Google, Yandex…) and to create environment of “POSSIBLE”. After that, users will adapt their habbits to new environment. It’s evolution. F.E. / For IDNs, it’s very logical to have right moves (besides big guys) in big countries where English alphabet is native (China, India, Russia). NewGs are going stronger in number of domain names, so the problems there are becoming global problem and users are changing habbits each day.
@Ram first I like to thank You as one of the pioneers in non 2/3 character TLDs, and to tell You that I will be happy if this problem can be solved in next 15 years. But I doubt, and the fight that You started, will be here for a very long time in the future J
Cheers,
Dusan
*From:* ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Richard Merdinger *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2016 6:48 PM *To:* Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com>
*Cc:* ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years...
As we look at outreach and efforts to accept issue reports and loop-close on reported issues, it will be extremely useful to include links to materials that will enable bosses to send to their engineering teams saying…hey, do it like this.
--Rich
*From: *<ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info> *Date: *Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:03 AM *To: *Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> *Cc: *ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years...
I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :)
It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this.
Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too.
Ram
On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com> wrote:
Ram:
I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer:
Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content.
Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this?
Boss: Zero.
So, semi-smart solution for no budget.
Kurt
________________
Kurt Pritz
kurt@kjpritz.com
+1.310.400.4184
Skype: kjpritz
On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> wrote:
Dear Ram,
I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer.
Another 15+ years are needed for UA work.
------------------------------
Jiankang Yao
*From:* Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info>
*Date:* 2016-09-29 01:50
*To:* UA-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org>
*Subject:* [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years...
On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls.
Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message.
<image001(09-29-10-27-48).png>
Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important.
-Ram
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
Ram Mohan
Executive Vice President & CTO
Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China
o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701
Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
-- *Jean Guillon* contact@jovenet.email Phone: +33.631109837 www.jovenet.consulting
Why I am not surprised? ;) Please, go ahead! J As a Frenchmen, if You manage to get to TLDs with her, then I don’t have anything against Kim as promoter J From: Contact [mailto:contact@jovenet.email] Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 3:00 PM To: Dusan Stojicevic <dusan@dukes.in.rs> Cc: Richard Merdinger <rmerdinger@godaddy.com>; Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com>; ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I think we do need Kim Kardashian to promote new gTLDs too. Now, I am not sure that it is a good idea if suggesting this to her comes from a French person. On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Dusan Stojicevic <dusan@dukes.in.rs <mailto:dusan@dukes.in.rs> > wrote: Dear all, By following discussion, I get the feeling that we need to find the way from the boss to programmer, or how to move boss to solve this issue. In my opinion, the only way to get boss’s reaction is to explain to him that he’s losing money. When he realize that clients are going to some competitive service, he will make the budget for programmer. The real problem is that users are not stubborn in using IDN or NewG email addresses, and after service gives them error message, they switch to alternative, regular mail. We all do that, it’s in our BIOS, our nature. So, there is no money lost and no problem for the boss. Few stubborn users, who cares. IDN (and NewGs for now) are like opera music. It’s not mainstream, it means culture, few of them are listening and enjoying opera, but mainstream is somewhere else. No, my conclusion is not that we need Kim Kardashian to promote IDNs and NewGs. J We need to change the user system of logic, by covering all issues that we possibly can, talking with big developers to adapt their systems (Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Google, Yandex…) and to create environment of “POSSIBLE”. After that, users will adapt their habbits to new environment. It’s evolution. F.E. / For IDNs, it’s very logical to have right moves (besides big guys) in big countries where English alphabet is native (China, India, Russia). NewGs are going stronger in number of domain names, so the problems there are becoming global problem and users are changing habbits each day. @Ram first I like to thank You as one of the pioneers in non 2/3 character TLDs, and to tell You that I will be happy if this problem can be solved in next 15 years. But I doubt, and the fight that You started, will be here for a very long time in the future J Cheers, Dusan From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Richard Merdinger Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 6:48 PM To: Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> >; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... As we look at outreach and efforts to accept issue reports and loop-close on reported issues, it will be extremely useful to include links to materials that will enable bosses to send to their engineering teams saying…hey, do it like this. --Rich From: <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > on behalf of Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> > Date: Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:03 AM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :) It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this. Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too. Ram On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > wrote: Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> +1.310.400.4184 <tel:%2B1.310.400.4184> Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn <mailto:yaojk@cnnic.cn> > wrote: Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. _____ Jiankang Yao From: <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> Ram Mohan Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> UA-discuss Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. <image001(09-29-10-27-48).png> Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103 <tel:%2B1.215.706.5700%20x103> ; m: +1.215.431.0958 <tel:%2B1.215.431.0958> ; f: +1.215.706.5701 <tel:%2B1.215.706.5701> Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123| <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan> www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan -- <https://docs.google.com/a/jovenet.consulting/uc?id=0B91jcpmB98eCWnhQTmZIdWVD...> Jean Guillon contact@jovenet.email <mailto:contact@jovenet.email> Phone: +33.631109837 www.jovenet.consulting <http://www.jovenet.consulting>
Agree with You, just one remark> “But many programmers like things to be *right* - it's one of the characteristics that makes good programmers.” Unfortunately, we have majority of programmers who like things to *work somehow*, which makes them bad programmers… J Cheers, Dusan From: chaals@yandex-team.ru [mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru] Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 3:02 PM To: Dusan Stojicevic <dusan@dukes.in.rs>; 'Richard Merdinger' <rmerdinger@godaddy.com>; 'Ram Mohan' <rmohan@afilias.info>; 'Kurt Pritz' <kurt@kjpritz.com> Cc: 'ua-discuss' <ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... For what it is worth, my experience is the opposite. To make changes like this happen, we need to convince the programmer, who can then convince the boss much more easily than we can. Because Dusan is right, if IDN email doesn't work, people switch to something that does. So there is no need for the boss to spend money until half the world has done it already - and after that there is no need to explain it to a boss because they know they are about to lose clients. But many programmers like things to be *right* - it's one of the characteristics that makes good programmers. So if you find them and convince them in a few places, we get momentum. If you insist on putting your internationalised email into systems you use, some of those programmers will get it right too. And then we get to half the world. We have to make sure we *already* explained how to do this right by then, so that when people search they find the information we need. And we can go and relax. Or do something else. cheers 04.10.2016, 14:50, "Dusan Stojicevic" <dusan@dukes.in.rs <mailto:dusan@dukes.in.rs> >: Dear all, By following discussion, I get the feeling that we need to find the way from the boss to programmer, or how to move boss to solve this issue. In my opinion, the only way to get boss’s reaction is to explain to him that he’s losing money. When he realize that clients are going to some competitive service, he will make the budget for programmer. The real problem is that users are not stubborn in using IDN or NewG email addresses, and after service gives them error message, they switch to alternative, regular mail. We all do that, it’s in our BIOS, our nature. So, there is no money lost and no problem for the boss. Few stubborn users, who cares. IDN (and NewGs for now) are like opera music. It’s not mainstream, it means culture, few of them are listening and enjoying opera, but mainstream is somewhere else. No, my conclusion is not that we need Kim Kardashian to promote IDNs and NewGs. J We need to change the user system of logic, by covering all issues that we possibly can, talking with big developers to adapt their systems (Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Google, Yandex…) and to create environment of “POSSIBLE”. After that, users will adapt their habbits to new environment. It’s evolution. F.E. / For IDNs, it’s very logical to have right moves (besides big guys) in big countries where English alphabet is native (China, India, Russia). NewGs are going stronger in number of domain names, so the problems there are becoming global problem and users are changing habbits each day. @Ram first I like to thank You as one of the pioneers in non 2/3 character TLDs, and to tell You that I will be happy if this problem can be solved in next 15 years. But I doubt, and the fight that You started, will be here for a very long time in the future J Cheers, Dusan From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Richard Merdinger Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 6:48 PM To: Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> >; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... As we look at outreach and efforts to accept issue reports and loop-close on reported issues, it will be extremely useful to include links to materials that will enable bosses to send to their engineering teams saying…hey, do it like this. --Rich From: <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> > on behalf of Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> > Date: Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:03 AM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > Cc: ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> > Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :) It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this. Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too. Ram On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> > wrote: Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com <mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com> +1.310.400.4184 <tel:%2B1.310.400.4184> Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn <mailto:yaojk@cnnic.cn> > wrote: Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. _____ Jiankang Yao From: <mailto:rmohan@afilias.info> Ram Mohan Date: 2016-09-29 01:50 To: <mailto:UA-discuss@icann.org> UA-discuss Subject: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _recently_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. <image001(09-29-10-27-48).png> Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103 <tel:%2B1.215.706.5700%20x103> ; m: +1.215.431.0958 <tel:%2B1.215.431.0958> ; f: +1.215.706.5701 <tel:%2B1.215.706.5701> Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123| <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan> www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan -- Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex chaals@yandex-team.ru <mailto:chaals@yandex-team.ru> - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
Dusan, others, Thanks for the kind words. Remember though (in the American context, at least) that pioneers get arrows in the back! There are several real problems – including getting bosses to understand the economic value of getting acceptance right, programmers to understand that doing it the right way is not any more difficult or any more work than the way they do it now. Other problems to solve include putting together a repertoire of good practices, reusable code libraries, and finding uses for applications such as EAI, IDN labels, etc. -Ram *From:* Dusan Stojicevic [mailto:dusan@dukes.in.rs] *Sent:* Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:50 AM *To:* 'Richard Merdinger'; 'Ram Mohan'; 'Kurt Pritz' *Cc:* 'ua-discuss' *Subject:* RE: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... Dear all, By following discussion, I get the feeling that we need to find the way from the boss to programmer, or how to move boss to solve this issue. In my opinion, the only way to get boss’s reaction is to explain to him that he’s losing money. When he realize that clients are going to some competitive service, he will make the budget for programmer. The real problem is that users are not stubborn in using IDN or NewG email addresses, and after service gives them error message, they switch to alternative, regular mail. We all do that, it’s in our BIOS, our nature. So, there is no money lost and no problem for the boss. Few stubborn users, who cares. IDN (and NewGs for now) are like opera music. It’s not mainstream, it means culture, few of them are listening and enjoying opera, but mainstream is somewhere else. No, my conclusion is not that we need Kim Kardashian to promote IDNs and NewGs. J We need to change the user system of logic, by covering all issues that we possibly can, talking with big developers to adapt their systems (Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Google, Yandex…) and to create environment of “POSSIBLE”. After that, users will adapt their habbits to new environment. It’s evolution. F.E. / For IDNs, it’s very logical to have right moves (besides big guys) in big countries where English alphabet is native (China, India, Russia). NewGs are going stronger in number of domain names, so the problems there are becoming global problem and users are changing habbits each day. @Ram first I like to thank You as one of the pioneers in non 2/3 character TLDs, and to tell You that I will be happy if this problem can be solved in next 15 years. But I doubt, and the fight that You started, will be here for a very long time in the future J Cheers, Dusan *From:* ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Richard Merdinger *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2016 6:48 PM *To:* Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> *Cc:* ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... As we look at outreach and efforts to accept issue reports and loop-close on reported issues, it will be extremely useful to include links to materials that will enable bosses to send to their engineering teams saying…hey, do it like this. --Rich *From: *<ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Ram Mohan < rmohan@afilias.info> *Date: *Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 3:03 AM *To: *Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com> *Cc: *ua-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... I blame it on the culture, and on the humans who enable it. Agree that it's not *just* the programmer's fault, although in your example below, he must have been semi sedated to write code that catches a non 3/4 character tld, and then pop up an error message; so inefficient :) It's literally no extra work to change a regular expression match in code. It's a kind of laziness combined with apathy that drives this. Some developers depend on a dns lookup to determine a valid tld, while others lookup a static list. Poor programming choices, much heartbreak lies in those directions, too. Ram On Sep 29, 2016 2:51 PM, "Kurt Pritz" <kurt@kjpritz.com> wrote: Ram: I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the programmer: Boss: Hello young man. We have a bit of a problem to solve. Some of our web site users are mis-typing their email addresses. When different government departments need to get hold of them to correct an error on a form they submitted, we cannot. These government departments want us to do a check on their email addresses to at least make sure they are the right format and allowable content. Programmer: Sure thing. What's our budget for this? Boss: Zero. So, semi-smart solution for no budget. Kurt ________________ Kurt Pritz kurt@kjpritz.com +1.310.400.4184 Skype: kjpritz On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:32 PM, "Jiankang Yao" <yaojk@cnnic.cn> wrote: Dear Ram, I think that you can be titled as UA pioneer. Another 15+ years are needed for UA work. ------------------------------ Jiankang Yao *From:* Ram Mohan <rmohan@afilias.info> *Date:* 2016-09-29 01:50 *To:* UA-discuss <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject:* [UA-discuss] Some universal acceptance problems last 15+ years... On Sep 12, 2001, I helped launch the first non 2/3 character TLD, .INFO. Many of you have heard about how we struggled to get applications, browsers, web forms and email systems to recognize the world’s first four-character TLD as a legitimate extension, including my creation of the Office of the CTO (in a 3 person startup) to get large companies to return my calls. Well, 15+ years later, today I was on the website of the Pennsylvania state government, and filled in my email address (ending in .INFO). I hit submit, and here is the prompt that came up. I hit OK, and the site accepted my email and I moved forward with my tasks, but it’s galling that some programmer _*recently*_ decided that a non 2/3 character TLD based email address merited a warning message. <image001(09-29-10-27-48).png> Goes to show how long bad habits persist. Also goes to show why the UASG’s work is important. -Ram ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ram Mohan Executive Vice President & CTO Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India|China o: +1.215.706.5700 x103; m: +1.215.431.0958; f: +1.215.706.5701 Skype:gliderpilot30 |@rmohan123|www.linkedin.com/in/rmohan
participants (10)
-
chaals＠yandex-team.ru -
Christian Dawson -
Contact -
Dusan Stojicevic -
Edmon Chung -
Jiankang Yao -
Jothan Frakes -
Kurt Pritz -
Ram Mohan -
Richard Merdinger