Good insights, Pinky. Thanks! *From:* Pinky Brand [mailto:pinky@pinkybrand.com] *Sent:* Friday, December 1, 2017 1:25 PM *To:* Jothan Frakes <jothan@jothan.com>; Michele Neylon < michele@blacknight.com> *Cc:* UA-discuss@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Domainers I agree with the responses by most in this thread to Andre's question. I haven't been an active participant in this group to date, but am grateful for all of the IDN and UASG related volunteers and all of the effort put forth by them that may not ever see the light of day, let alone in some sort of PR release or online domainer forum group. Domainers are not customers of this group. Some are likely within this group, within other stakeholders, and of course within the entire ecosystem. IMHO they don't need to be *exclusively* thanked or acknowledged. However I ask --- just what IS a domainer? I struggle with the definition, even after being in the domain industry for 21 years, and serving as VP of TLD Registry Ltd., operators of the .在线 (online) and .中文网 (Chinese Website) IDNs approved early this year by MIIT. One definition that has been floated by a prominent domain blogger is the following: *A domainer is an individual or company that actively engages in the buying, selling, marketing, monetization and publishing of internet domain names and other related web and or internet-based properties. * If one concurs with the above, especially with the inclusion of the word "company" in the definition, then in my experience that would cover a lot of actors in the IDN industry and ecosystem. Actors such as SMBs and major corporations --- being my own customers early on; developers, consultants, registrars and their resellers, registry operators and applicants, whether successful or not. I've also concluded that quasi-government organizations and other ICANN types, including volunteers in the IDN effort, may fit the definition of a domainer. In my experience I have concluded that individual domainers do play a role in the IDN ecosystem, but not a dominant role. They are only one part of the entire IDN effort. So should they be thanked or acknowledged? If you think yes, then exactly "who" thanks "who"? Assuming that can be answered then I'd agree to it in the context of thanking all of the other actors, especially the volunteers, at the same time. Some give their money, and some give their time and expertise. Some give all. Some are very public. Some lean towards being private or flying under the radar. Everyone plays a part. Anyone "investing" in IDNs, whether it be any of the above actors, in whatever form their IDN investment/participation takes place, is important to the eventual long term success, of which Universal Acceptance plays an enormous role. I submit my comments with the utmost respect for what this group is doing to advance the cause and UA of IDNs. *Mr. Pinkard Alan 'Pinky' Brand* Managing Director *FocusNua USA *dba Pinky Brand Consulting *China + Domain Name Industry Knowledge* Austin, Texas USA www.pinkybrand.com *Office: *+1.512.394.8812 (-6:00 GMT) *Twitter:* @pinkybrand *Skype: *photologik *WeChat:* Pinky_Brand -- On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Jothan Frakes <jothan@jothan.com> wrote: Michele, congratulations to .ie in better serving the Irish community with fada.ie, but I would suggest we not use the domain investment participation there as any indication of universal measurements on participation. I think that many participating in evolving the namespace (providers, integrators, volunteers, investors, regulators, users, devolopers, etc.) all deserve some gratitude - we are all in it together. On Nov 24, 2017 10:07, "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <michele@blacknight.com> wrote: The .ie ccTLD introduced IDN in .ie recently so that our local ccTLD could finally support the Irish language. You can now register a .ie domain using a fada (the accent) See http://fada.ie/ (disclosure: we run it) Domainers had absolutely nothing to do with that decision. Zero. Nada. While the takeup of IDNs in .ie hasn’t been exactly “huge” it has allowed companies and other organisations whose names included fadas to register their “real” name. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From: *UA-discuss <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Andre Schappo <A.Schappo@lboro.ac.uk> *Date: *Thursday 23 November 2017 at 10:07 *To: *Universal Acceptance <UA-discuss@icann.org> *Subject: *[UA-discuss] Domainers Would IDNs even exist today if it was not for Domainers? I suspect that IDNs would have been abandoned long ago if it was not for Domainers. I believe that Domainers are the majority holders of IDNs. The dependency on Domainers is well emphasised in the thread http://www.idnforums.com/forums/35654-number-of-%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A0-registrat... <http://www.idnforums.com/forums/35654-number-of-コム-registrations-takes-a-nosedive.html> I think the international community should be acknowledging and thanking Domainers for their significant contribution to IDNs. André Schappo