Proposed patch - Theory change to reinstate reference to ISO-3166
Theory change to reinstate reference to ISO-3166 Use ISO-3166 as a guide for when a name should exist Countries are not specified and nothing is mandated -------------------------- https://github.com/jodastephen/tz/commit/e6199cc2616e938efb9422b263bd09da702... This patch reinstates the link to ISO-3166 in a softer way. In my opinion, the original removal (of something present for 16 years) did not have consensus and should have been reverted. However, I offer this patch as a possible middle ground. Stephen -------------------------- @@ -316,6 +316,8 @@ in decreasing order of importance: 'America/New_York' precludes 'America/New_York/Bronx'. Uninhabited regions like the North Pole and Bouvet Island do not need locations, since local time is not defined there. + Use ISO-3166 as a guide to ensuring time zone name coverage. + There should typically be at least one name per ISO-3166 code. If all the clocks in a region have agreed since 1970, don't bother to include more than one location even if subregions' clocks disagreed before 1970.
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Stephen Colebourne <scolebourne@joda.org> wrote: > https://github.com/jodastephen/tz/commit/e6199cc2616e938efb9422b263bd09da70220604 > + Use ISO-3166 as a guide to ensuring time zone name coverage. > + There should typically be at least one name per ISO-3166 code. 1) name The section following "Here are the general rules used for choosing location names, in decreasing order of importance:" talks about locations, using "name" is inconsistent. 2) ISO-3166 code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166 leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-3 There are two standards containing the string ISO 3166-1, the one published the latest is ISO 3166-1:2006 http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=39719 The other is ISO 3166-1:1997 http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=24591 The ISO website also shows ISO 3166:1981 ISO 3166:1988 ISO 3166:1993 ISO 3166-1:2006 includes three sets of codes. There is no 1:1:1 correspondence between the sets. Not even 1:1 between any pair of them. The Wikipedia article says: "The first edition of ISO 3166 was published in 1974, which included only alphabetic country codes." Thus even the cutoff 1970-01-01 marks a time that is before the first publication of any ISO 3166 standard. There are at least two pairs, namely DD/DE and YD/YE where there is not "at least one name per ISO-3166 code" but only one per pair. When looking at the locations or location names, it follows that "There should typically be at least one name per ISO-3166 code." was never applied. -- Tobias Conradi Rheinsberger Str. 18 10115 Berlin Germany http://tobiasconradi.com
Tobias Conradi said:
There are two standards containing the string ISO 3166-1, the one published the latest is ISO 3166-1:2006 http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber...
The other is ISO 3166-1:1997 http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber...
The ISO website also shows ISO 3166:1981 ISO 3166:1988 ISO 3166:1993
Those are all the same standard. They represent 5 different *revisions* of the standard. Once 3166:1988 was published, 3166:1981 was no longer the standard and should not be used. (Of course, ISO can't force people to change.)
ISO 3166-1:2006 includes three sets of codes.
No, contains *rules* for three sets of codes.
There is no 1:1:1 correspondence between the sets. Not even 1:1 between any pair of them.
The standards don't include a normative table of codes. That is, the tables in those standards are *snapshots*. The standard itself defines rules for maintaining the official list of codes, what the codes should look like, and so on. The official list, however, is maintained by the "maintenance agency" (who, IIRC, is DIN). They can update the list whenever they want. Thus, for example, the list was changed on: 1989-12-05 (removed BU, added MM) 1990-08-14 1990-10-30 1992-06-15 1992-08-28 (removed DD, changed DD from 280 to 276) 1992-08-30 1993-06-15 (removed CS, added CZ and SK) 1993-06-18 1993-07-12 1993-07-16 1993-07-22 1993-07-23 1993-07-28 1996-04-03 (changed name of VA) 1997-07-14 1999-10-01 2002-02-01 2002-11-15 2003-07-23 (removed YU, added CS) among other dates. (I've only given a sample of what the changes were for.)
There are at least two pairs, namely DD/DE and YD/YE where there is not "at least one name per ISO-3166 code" but only one per pair.
When DD and DE were both in the list, they had separate names. DD is no longer in the 3166-1 list, though it is in 3166-3 (removed codes).
When looking at the locations or location names, it follows that "There should typically be at least one name per ISO-3166 code." was never applied.
I don't believe you've demonstrated that. -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
Theory change to reinstate reference to ISO-3166
The freely available ISO-3166-1 2 character list? Or the full 3166-2 listing including the sub-zones? Are we are allowed to use that? I have a fairly complete country and area table, but we understood that the full details required a license. However it would seem that even the fine detail is available if not as a single download. How long has https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#search been available. In an ideal world then ISO would simply list the 'timezone' in that listing? https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:US provides the US listings, but even against that are there states that use more than one timezone data? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
On 09/04/13 10:04, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
I offer this patch as a possible middle ground.
Thanks, though as you know I'm not happy about political constraints, this sounds like a reasonable compromise. I'd like to tweak it slightly, to mention that we're only talking about inhabited countries here (this is implied by the previous line but it's better to be explicit), and while we're at it we should mention exactly which ISO 3166 codes we're talking about, as we're not going to add an entry for the African Regional Industrial Property Organization even though it does have an ISO 3166 two-letter code. Something like this, say: diff --git a/Theory b/Theory index b11cbc8..cfd3e2e 100644 --- a/Theory +++ b/Theory @@ -316,6 +316,8 @@ in decreasing order of importance: 'America/New_York' precludes 'America/New_York/Bronx'. Uninhabited regions like the North Pole and Bouvet Island do not need locations, since local time is not defined there. + There should typically be at least one name for each ISO 3166-1 + officially assigned two-letter code for an inhabited country. If all the clocks in a region have agreed since 1970, don't bother to include more than one location even if subregions' clocks disagreed before 1970.
Paul Eggert wrote:
and while we're at it we should mention exactly which ISO 3166 codes we're talking about, as we're not going to add an entry for the
Use the 'Officially assigned codes' list of 249 entries but there are a block of 'other codes which we can safely ignore. http://www.iso.org/iso/home/standards/country_codes/country_names_and_code_e... is the normally used list -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
On 4 September 2013 19:47, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
I'd like to tweak it slightly, to mention that we're only talking about inhabited countries here (this is implied by the previous line but it's better to be explicit), and while we're at it we should mention exactly which ISO 3166 codes we're talking about, as we're not going to add an entry for the African Regional Industrial Property Organization even though it does have an ISO 3166 two-letter code.
Something like this, say: + There should typically be at least one name for each ISO 3166-1 + officially assigned two-letter code for an inhabited country.
I'd be happy with that as a wording. I think its better than mine. Stephen
From a suggestion by Stephen Colebourne in <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2013-September/019868.html>.
Theory | 3 +++ 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+) diff --git a/Theory b/Theory index b11cbc8..ea2d004 100644 --- a/Theory +++ b/Theory @@ -316,6 +316,9 @@ in decreasing order of importance: 'America/New_York' precludes 'America/New_York/Bronx'. Uninhabited regions like the North Pole and Bouvet Island do not need locations, since local time is not defined there. + There should typically be at least one name for each ISO 3166-1 + officially assigned two-letter code for an inhabited country + or territory. If all the clocks in a region have agreed since 1970, don't bother to include more than one location even if subregions' clocks disagreed before 1970. -- 1.8.3.1
participants (5)
-
Clive D.W. Feather -
Lester Caine -
Paul Eggert -
Stephen Colebourne -
Tobias Conradi