A bill to move Polish time (Europe/Warsaw) permanently to UTC+2
An internal committee of the Polish parlament (Sejm) has unanimously voted in favor of a bill to stop DST changes and to introduce permanent Central European Summer Time (GMT+2). The law would come in force in autumn 2018. The bill still needs to be voted by Sejm, then Senat (upper house), and then must be signed by the President, so it is far from being the actual law. The bill is not considered conflicting with EU regulations, which only require DST changes to be synchronized across EU but do not actually mandate the use of DST. Reference in Polish: http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114883,22499682,nie-bedziemy-przest... The website <http://sejm.gov.pl/Sejm8.nsf/PrzebiegProc.xsp?nr=1852> of the Sejm has not yet been updated with the result of the voting. Thanks, Sergiusz
Sergiusz Wolicki said:
The bill is not considered conflicting with EU regulations, which only require DST changes to be synchronized across EU but do not actually mandate the use of DST.
Hmm. Article 2 says "From 2002 onwards, the summer-time period shall begin, in every Member State, at 1.00 a.m., Greenwich Mean Time, on the last Sunday in March." It doesn't say "Where a member state observes a summer-time period, ...". Article 1 similarly doesn't use wording like "where applied". The literature on the topic on the EU site all seems to assume that having summer time is mandatory. If I tried hard I could probably bring an argument to the opposite forward, but I suspect a court would throw it out. -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
Sergiusz Wolicki said:
The bill is not considered conflicting with EU regulations, which only require DST changes to be synchronized across EU but do not actually mandate the use of DST.
Hmm.
Article 2 says "From 2002 onwards, the summer-time period shall begin, in every Member State, at 1.00 a.m., Greenwich Mean Time, on the last Sunday in March."
It doesn't say "Where a member state observes a summer-time period, ...".
Article 1 similarly doesn't use wording like "where applied".
The literature on the topic on the EU site all seems to assume that having summer time is mandatory.
If I tried hard I could probably bring an argument to the opposite forward, but I suspect a court would throw it out.
The current government of Poland doesn't seem to care much about EU regulations anyway, e.g.: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/poland-accused-of-i... So why should they obey the EU rules on DST? :( Martin
<http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32000L0084&qid...> Article 1 <http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32000L0084&qid...> of the EU directive 2000/84/EC on DST says: *For the purposes of this Directive "summer-time period" shall mean the period of the year during which clocks are put forward by 60 minutes compared with the rest of the year.* And the point (2) of the preamble says: *(2) Given that the Member States apply summer-time arrangements, it is important for the functioning of the internal market that a common date and time for the beginning and end of the summer-time period be fixed throughout the Community.* The interpretation by lawyers who gave their positive opinion about this bill is that the EU directive does not explicitly mandate DST. Its purpose is to regulate DST start and end dates *given that* DST is observed in member countries. The directive does not say whether this assumption must be valid for all countries. If a country does not observe DST, then there is no such thing as "*the period of the year during which clocks are put forward by 60 minutes compared with the rest of the year*" in that country, which means there is no summer-time and the directive simply does not apply. This interpretation seems reasonable to me. I would expect that if DST were mandatory in all member countries, the directive would have an article stating this in clear text. I would welcome a link to a EU document which explicitly states/concludes that DST is mandatory. By the way, the bill was actually proposed by a party from the opposition (PSL), not by government, and it was supposedly accepted by all members of the committee, which are from all parties. Thanks, Sergiusz On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:03 AM, Martin Burnicki < martin.burnicki@meinberg.de> wrote:
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
Sergiusz Wolicki said:
The bill is not considered conflicting with EU regulations, which only require DST changes to be synchronized across EU but do not actually mandate the use of DST.
Hmm.
Article 2 says "From 2002 onwards, the summer-time period shall begin, in every Member State, at 1.00 a.m., Greenwich Mean Time, on the last Sunday in March."
It doesn't say "Where a member state observes a summer-time period, ...".
Article 1 similarly doesn't use wording like "where applied".
The literature on the topic on the EU site all seems to assume that having summer time is mandatory.
If I tried hard I could probably bring an argument to the opposite forward, but I suspect a court would throw it out.
The current government of Poland doesn't seem to care much about EU regulations anyway, e.g.: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/ news/poland-accused-of-ignoring-eu-ruling-on-protected-forest-logging/
So why should they obey the EU rules on DST? :(
Martin
The most recent report to the EU about this issue (dated Sept 2014, available at the bottom of this page: https://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/summertime_en ) states in section 1.1.2: The key steps in the development of European law on the application of summertime were (European Commission, 2007): ■ ... ■ The extension, via the ninth Directive (2000/84/EC) of the provisions of the eighth Directive for an unlimited period and the application of summertime being made legally binding. The cumulative effect of this succession of laws is that all Member States are now obliged to observe summertime, starting it on the last Sunday of March and ending it on the last Sunday of October. (The underlining is mine.) The rest of the report explores the possible impacts of hypothetical deharmonisation of the summer-time rules. Regards, Malcolm From: tz-bounces@iana.org [mailto:tz-bounces@iana.org] On Behalf Of Sergiusz Wolicki Sent: 13 October 2017 02:49 To: tz@iana.org Subject: [External] Re: [tz] A bill to move Polish time (Europe/Warsaw) permanently to UTC+2 <http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32000L0084&qid...> Article 1<http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32000L0084&qid...> of the EU directive 2000/84/EC on DST says: For the purposes of this Directive "summer-time period" shall mean the period of the year during which clocks are put forward by 60 minutes compared with the rest of the year. And the point (2) of the preamble says: (2) Given that the Member States apply summer-time arrangements, it is important for the functioning of the internal market that a common date and time for the beginning and end of the summer-time period be fixed throughout the Community. The interpretation by lawyers who gave their positive opinion about this bill is that the EU directive does not explicitly mandate DST. Its purpose is to regulate DST start and end dates given that DST is observed in member countries. The directive does not say whether this assumption must be valid for all countries. If a country does not observe DST, then there is no such thing as "the period of the year during which clocks are put forward by 60 minutes compared with the rest of the year" in that country, which means there is no summer-time and the directive simply does not apply. This interpretation seems reasonable to me. I would expect that if DST were mandatory in all member countries, the directive would have an article stating this in clear text. I would welcome a link to a EU document which explicitly states/concludes that DST is mandatory. By the way, the bill was actually proposed by a party from the opposition (PSL), not by government, and it was supposedly accepted by all members of the committee, which are from all parties. Thanks, Sergiusz On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:03 AM, Martin Burnicki <martin.burnicki@meinberg.de<mailto:martin.burnicki@meinberg.de>> wrote: Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
Sergiusz Wolicki said:
The bill is not considered conflicting with EU regulations, which only require DST changes to be synchronized across EU but do not actually mandate the use of DST.
Hmm.
Article 2 says "From 2002 onwards, the summer-time period shall begin, in every Member State, at 1.00 a.m., Greenwich Mean Time, on the last Sunday in March."
It doesn't say "Where a member state observes a summer-time period, ...".
Article 1 similarly doesn't use wording like "where applied".
The literature on the topic on the EU site all seems to assume that having summer time is mandatory.
If I tried hard I could probably bring an argument to the opposite forward, but I suspect a court would throw it out.
The current government of Poland doesn't seem to care much about EU regulations anyway, e.g.: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/poland-accused-of-i... So why should they obey the EU rules on DST? :( Martin This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete all copies and notify the sender immediately. You may wish to refer to the incorporation details of Standard Chartered PLC, Standard Chartered Bank and their subsidiaries at http://www.standardchartered.com/en/incorporation-details.html Where you have a Financial Markets relationship with Standard Chartered PLC, Standard Chartered Bank and their subsidiaries (the "Group"), information on the regulatory standards we adhere to and how it may affect you can be found in our Regulatory Compliance Statement on https://www.sc.com/rcs/ and Regulatory Compliance Disclosures on http://www.sc.com/rcs/fm Insofar as this communication contains any market commentary, the market commentary has been prepared by sales and/or trading desk of Standard Chartered Bank or its affiliate. It is not and does not constitute research material, independent research, recommendation or financial advice. Any market commentary is for information purpose only and shall not be relied for any other purpose, and is subject to the relevant disclaimers available at https://www.sc.com/en/banking-services/market-disclaimer.html Insofar as this e-mail contains the term sheet for a proposed transaction, by responding affirmatively to this e-mail, you agree that you have understood the terms and conditions in the attached term sheet and evaluated the merits and risks of the transaction. We may at times also request you to sign on the term sheet to acknowledge in respect of the same. Please visit https://www.sc.com/en/banking-services/dodd-frank-disclosures.html for important information with respect to derivative products.
Poland and now Finland urge EU to stop daylight saving time. Few days ago, the parliamentary transport and communications committee recommended to the government that Finland should actively push the EU to abolish its directive on daylight savings time, after considering the citizen's initative. "THE European Union is coming under pressure to stop daylight saving time after more than 70,000 Finnish citizens have signed a petition against the seasonal time shift, arguing it is making them ill." http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/872298/Finland-urges-EU-to-stop-daylight... The committee justified the recommendation by saying that turning the clocks causes short-term sleeping disorders, reduced performance at work and can also lead to serious health problems. A bill in Poland to do away with the time change is also making progress. Many Finnish lawmakers point out that their hands are tied, however, as the country is bound to European Union standards as a Member State. A similar bid to do away with the time change has been proposed for consideration at the European Parliament and each of Finland's 13 MEPs has signed on to support it. The Commission decided to analyse the impact of the time change more closely in October "2016"." (edited 2017 ?) https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/turn_your_clocks_back_tonight_as_finland_... Regards, Alexander Krivenyshev https://www.worldtimezone.com New York, NY
Is the current EU regulation about when DST should start and stop. not whether or not it actually gets implemented? Edwin On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 10:32 AM, World Time Zone <wtz@worldtimezone.com> wrote:
Poland and now Finland urge EU to stop daylight saving time.
Few days ago, the parliamentary transport and communications committee recommended to the government that Finland should actively push the EU to abolish its directive on daylight savings time, after considering the citizen's initative.
"THE European Union is coming under pressure to stop daylight saving time after more than 70,000 Finnish citizens have signed a petition against the seasonal time shift, arguing it is making them ill."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/872298/Finland-urges-EU- to-stop-daylight-savings-time
The committee justified the recommendation by saying that turning the clocks causes short-term sleeping disorders, reduced performance at work and can also lead to serious health problems. A bill in Poland to do away with the time change is also making progress.
Many Finnish lawmakers point out that their hands are tied, however, as the country is bound to European Union standards as a Member State.
A similar bid to do away with the time change has been proposed for consideration at the European Parliament and each of Finland's 13 MEPs has signed on to support it. The Commission decided to analyse the impact of the time change more closely in October "2016"." (edited 2017 ?)
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/turn_your_clocks_back_ton ight_as_finland_returns_to_standard_time/9906395
Regards, Alexander Krivenyshev https://www.worldtimezone.com New York, NY
Edwin Groothuis wrote:
Is the current EU regulation about when DST should start and stop. not whether or not it actually gets implemented?
It's unclear on the latter point. The regulation is written with an unstated assumption that DST occurs, as if that's a law of nature; the regulation tells you how to handle this thing that inevitably happens. It's an open legal question whether this regulation confers an obligation to implement DST, given a point of view where it is conceivable to not implement DST. Informed observers have opined both ways on this. -zefram
participants (7)
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Clive D.W. Feather -
Edwin Groothuis -
Martin Burnicki -
Sergiusz Wolicki -
Wallace, Malcolm -
World Time Zone -
Zefram