More prominent/consistent record of rule change notification date?
Greetings I deal with getting the TZ updates rolled out for IBM AIX. As we all know, sometimes IANA is notified in the eleventh hour, and it is not feasible for AIX to deliver fixes in a matter of weeks (or less) Take Egypt, for example. For good reason, IANA did initiate a new build on March 1, as discussed in this thread<https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032683.html>. (Even if they did, it would have been a tight schedule for AIX to have ready mid April.) I certainly appreciate the emphasis on notifications, placed in the IANA article. How Time Zones Are Coordinated<https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-...> * https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... I have incorporated this message in to our AIX TZ documentation. We usually see some attribution to the notification in the NEWS Starting in 2023, Egypt will observe DST from April's last Friday through October's last Thursday. (Thanks to Ahmad ElDardiry.) Assume the transition times are 00:00 and 24:00, respectively. I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of WHEN IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates. I do realize that sometimes “official” notifications seems to be that someone submitted a more formal government reference, instead of a news article. Maybe just an indicator of when the group is provided such official confirmation. Thanks for your consideration! Jan Harris SME: Globalization, Graphics, X11, Desktop, Commands/Auth AIX Development Support Organization - IBM O: Austin, TX 901:3i019 Ph: 1-512-286-5445 Jabber:23635445 E: janhar@us.ibm.com <mailto:janhar@us.ibm.com>
On 2023-05-01 07:28, Jan Harris via tz wrote:
Greetings
I deal with getting the TZ updates rolled out for IBM AIX. As we all know, sometimes IANA is notified in the eleventh hour, and it is not feasible for AIX to deliver fixes in a matter of weeks (or less)
Take Egypt, for example. For good reason, IANA did initiate a new build on March 1, as discussed in this thread <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032683.html>. /(Even if they did, it would have been a tight schedule for AIX to have ready mid April.) /
I certainly appreciate the emphasis on notifications, placed in the IANA article.
/*How Time Zones Are Coordinated* <https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-2023-en>/
o /https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... <https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-2023-en>/
I have incorporated this message in to our AIX TZ documentation.
We usually see some attribution to the notification in the NEWS
/ Starting in 2023, Egypt will observe DST from April's last Friday/
/ through October's last Thursday. (Thanks to Ahmad ElDardiry.)/
/ Assume the transition times are 00:00 and 24:00, respectively./
I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of *WHEN* IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates. I do realize that sometimes “official” notifications seems to be that someone submitted a more formal government reference, instead of a news article. Maybe just an indicator of when the group is provided such official confirmation.
Depends on what you call official? Check the experimental repository data file e.g. https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/africa comments for the country changes preceding the rules and zones lines, or the dates of the commits in the history affecting e.g. https://github.com/eggert/tz/commits/main/africa https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/dcd8cbed23201416cbd3bbf43f669737693282d7 https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/1dd5133c04707a454e275032f6264b03f267638b Most official .eg gov web site access is blocked from outside Egypt, perhaps inside also? Most other countries' governments post official notices on their sites and often have links to relevant regulations, decrees, or laws, or at least name them, so they can be searched and referred to directly if available online. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 02:39, Brian Inglis via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
On 2023-001 07:28, Jan Harris via tz wrote:
Greetings
I deal with getting the TZ updates rolled out for IBM AIX. As we all know, sometimes IANA is notified in the eleventh hour, and it is not feasible for AIX to deliver fixes in a matter of weeks (or less)
Take Egypt, for example. For good reason, IANA did initiate a new build on March 1, as discussed in this thread <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032683.html>. /(Even if they did, it would have been a tight schedule for AIX to have ready mid April.) /
I certainly appreciate the emphasis on notifications, placed in the IANA article.
/*How Time Zones Are Coordinated* < https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... /
o / https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... < https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... /
I have incorporated this message in to our AIX TZ documentation.
We usually see some attribution to the notification in the NEWS
/ Starting in 2023, Egypt will observe DST from April's last Friday/
/ through October's last Thursday. (Thanks to Ahmad ElDardiry.)/
/ Assume the transition times are 00:00 and 24:00, respectively./
I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of *WHEN* IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates. I do realize that sometimes “official” notifications seems to be that someone submitted a more formal government reference, instead of a news article. Maybe just an indicator of when the group is provided such official confirmation.
Depends on what you call official?
Check the experimental repository data file e.g.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/africa
comments for the country changes preceding the rules and zones lines, or the dates of the commits in the history affecting e.g.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commits/main/africa
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/dcd8cbed23201416cbd3bbf43f669737693282d7
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/1dd5133c04707a454e275032f6264b03f267638b
Most official .eg gov web site access is blocked from outside Egypt, perhaps inside also?
Most other countries' governments post official notices on their sites and often have links to relevant regulations, decrees, or laws, or at least name them, so they can be searched and referred to directly if available online.
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 02:39, Brian Inglis via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
On 2023-05-01 07:28, Jan Harris via tz wrote:
Greetings
I deal with getting the TZ updates rolled out for IBM AIX. As we all know, sometimes IANA is notified in the eleventh hour, and it is not feasible for AIX to deliver fixes in a matter of weeks (or less)
Take Egypt, for example. For good reason, IANA did initiate a new build on March 1, as discussed in this thread <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032683.html>. /(Even if they did, it would have been a tight schedule for AIX to have ready mid April.) /
I certainly appreciate the emphasis on notifications, placed in the IANA article.
/*How Time Zones Are Coordinated* < https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... /
o / https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... < https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... /
I have incorporated this message in to our AIX TZ documentation.
We usually see some attribution to the notification in the NEWS
/ Starting in 2023, Egypt will observe DST from April's last Friday/
/ through October's last Thursday. (Thanks to Ahmad ElDardiry.)/
/ Assume the transition times are 00:00 and 24:00, respectively./
I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of *WHEN* IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates. I do realize that sometimes “official” notifications seems to be that someone submitted a more formal government reference, instead of a news article. Maybe just an indicator of when the group is provided such official confirmation.
Depends on what you call official?
Check the experimental repository data file e.g.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/africa
comments for the country changes preceding the rules and zones lines, or the dates of the commits in the history affecting e.g.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commits/main/africa
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/dcd8cbed23201416cbd3bbf43f669737693282d7
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/1dd5133c04707a454e275032f6264b03f267638b
Most official .eg gov web site access is blocked from outside Egypt, perhaps inside also?
Most other countries' governments post official notices on their sites and often have links to relevant regulations, decrees, or laws, or at least name them, so they can be searched and referred to directly if available online.
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On Mon, 05/01/2023 at 2:09 PM, Brian Inglis via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
On 2023-05-01 07:28, Jan Harris via tz wrote:
Greetings
I deal with getting the TZ updates rolled out for IBM AIX. As we all know, sometimes IANA is notified in the eleventh hour, and it is not feasible for AIX to deliver fixes in a matter of weeks (or less)
Take Egypt, for example. For good reason, IANA did initiate a new build on March 1, as discussed in this thread <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-March/032683.html>. /(Even if they did, it would have been a tight schedule for AIX to have ready mid April.) /
I certainly appreciate the emphasis on notifications, placed in the IANA article.
/*How Time Zones Are Coordinated* < https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... /
o / https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... < https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-... /
I have incorporated this message in to our AIX TZ documentation.
We usually see some attribution to the notification in the NEWS
/ Starting in 2023, Egypt will observe DST from April's last Friday/
/ through October's last Thursday. (Thanks to Ahmad ElDardiry.)/
/ Assume the transition times are 00:00 and 24:00, respectively./
I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of *WHEN* IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates. I do realize that sometimes “official” notifications seems to be that someone submitted a more formal government reference, instead of a news article. Maybe just an indicator of when the group is provided such official confirmation.
Depends on what you call official?
Check the experimental repository data file e.g.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/africa
comments for the country changes preceding the rules and zones lines, or the dates of the commits in the history affecting e.g.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commits/main/africa
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/dcd8cbed23201416cbd3bbf43f669737693282d7
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/1dd5133c04707a454e275032f6264b03f267638b
Most official .eg gov web site access is blocked from outside Egypt, perhaps inside also?
Most other countries' governments post official notices on their sites and often have links to relevant regulations, decrees, or laws, or at least name them, so they can be searched and referred to directly if available online.
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On Mon, 1 May 2023 at 15:15, Jan Harris via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of *WHEN* IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates.
To assist with this type of effort, for the past few years, I've been tracking some of this data as a personal side project at https://tzdata-meta.timtimeonline.com/ As has been pointed out, "official" is often a nebulous concept, especially with fast-moving and last-minute changes, so there is a bit of guesswork involved and no warranty is made as to accuracy or fitness of this data for any given purpose. I also haven't yet managed to update this metadata for the changes released in 2023{a,b,c}. Those were quite turbulent there for a while. -- Tim Parenti
Thanks, Tim! Yes, I do understand the "officially undefined" term "Official" 🙂. "Officially Notified" was a bad choice of terms. I just think might be helpful to vendors to be able to say "look, the IANA was not even able to confirm this rule change until "MM/DD/YY", and as they have stated in their documentation, "propagation of the updated data can take many months, even up to a year or two." The info in your https://tzdata-meta.timtimeonline.com/metadata/2022 is precisely what I'm looking for. I appreciate these efforts! 2022 and latest 2023 stuff has been very challenging for AIX, indeed. <https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-...> Jan Harris SME: Globalization, Graphics, X11, Desktop, Commands/Auth AIX Development Support Organization - IBM ________________________________ From: Tim Parenti <tim@timtimeonline.com> Sent: Monday, May 1, 2023 5:11 PM To: Jan Harris <janhar@us.ibm.com> Cc: tz@iana.org <tz@iana.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [tz] More prominent/consistent record of rule change notification date? On Mon, 1 May 2023 at 15: 15, Jan Harris via tz <tz@ iana. org> wrote: I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of WHEN IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender. ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd On Mon, 1 May 2023 at 15:15, Jan Harris via tz <tz@iana.org<mailto:tz@iana.org>> wrote: I think it would be helpful if there was a clear record of WHEN IANA is officially notified of TZ changes, so users could understand this is the result of their government changes, and notification processes, it is not a "defect" in how IANA or vendors roll out these updates. To assist with this type of effort, for the past few years, I've been tracking some of this data as a personal side project at https://tzdata-meta.timtimeonline.com/<https://tzdata-meta.timtimeonline.com/> As has been pointed out, "official" is often a nebulous concept, especially with fast-moving and last-minute changes, so there is a bit of guesswork involved and no warranty is made as to accuracy or fitness of this data for any given purpose. I also haven't yet managed to update this metadata for the changes released in 2023{a,b,c}. Those were quite turbulent there for a while. -- Tim Parenti
Jan Harris via tz said:
I just think might be helpful to vendors to be able to say "look, the IANA was not even able to confirm this rule change until "MM/DD/YY",
YYYY-MM-DD, please, for reasons I hope are obvious. -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
On 01.05.23 09:28, Jan Harris via tz wrote:
Greetings
I deal with getting the TZ updates rolled out for IBM AIX. As we all know, sometimes IANA is notified in the eleventh hour, and it is not feasible for AIX to deliver fixes in a matter of weeks (or less)
If your problem is the AIX maintenance release schedule, you might want to consider an alternate update process. One approach that has been standardized is the tzdist service (RFCs 7808 and 7809). Eliot
participants (6)
-
Bavin Notn -
Brian Inglis -
Clive D.W. Feather -
Eliot Lear -
Jan Harris -
Tim Parenti