Was Azerbaijan the first government to cite tzdb?
When Azerbaijan's Ministry of Transport, Communications and High Technologies said late last month that Azerbaijan would stay at +04, its announcement mentioned the TZ database. See: [Azerbaijan will not translate time] (in Russian). Sputnik. 2017-10-29. https://news.rambler.ru/caucasus/38277699-azerbaydzhan-ne-stanet-perevodit-s... Initially I thought this was a first, but it turns out that the same ministry also mentioned tzdb (though not by name) in March 2016, here: Recommendations in connection with abolition of daylight saving time. http://www.mincom.gov.az/media-en/news-2/details/12011 (Azerbaijani and Russian translations are available.) Is the March 2016 announcement the first time a government has cited tzdb, or can readers come up with earlier examples?
Paul Eggert wrote:
Is the March 2016 announcement the first time a government has cited tzdb,
Watch out for the next milestone in this direction: the tail wagging the dog. Look what happened to country-code TLDs. It was a great idea (of Postel, I think) to delegate the question of what is a country to ISO 3166, and this worked fine for the first decade or so. But when the Internet reached the masses, ownership of TLDs became so significant that it provided a motivation to manipulate ISO 3166. The original rationale for using it, that it's a neutral arbiter and in particular unmoved by what goes on on the Internet, was lost. How would this manifest among timezones? If tzdb is taken as the arbiter of what is a timezone, which it indeed functions as for some purposes, maybe there'll be a desire for each country to have its own (non-link) timezone, as a matter of national pride. Countries that have had identical time since 1970 might diverge for a few months just to get themselves (or rather their capital cities) on the list. Sub-national regions with separatist ambitions (e.g., Catalonia) and enough devolution to achieve it might pull the same trick to get their own timezone, so that they can say they have the same status as sovereign countries. For this to start happening just needs governments to perceive that appearing on computers' lists of timezones is desirable. The payoff isn't as obvious as the benefit of controlling a TLD, and it all requires a much greater popular awareness of computer timezone handling than has previously been the case. But the Azerbaijani government citing tzdb shows that we're well along an upward trend of the latter. I think the whole scenario is plausible, for a few years from now. -zefram
On 10 November 2017 at 10:57, Zefram <zefram@fysh.org> wrote:
Countries that have had identical time since 1970 might diverge for a few months just to get themselves (or rather their capital cities) on the list.
Though it's not guaranteed that tzdb will pick the capital city (Asia/Shanghai etc. etc.). Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
Hi, how can I leave this list? 10.11.2017 16:54 tarihinde Philip Newton yazdı:
On 10 November 2017 at 10:57, Zefram <zefram@fysh.org> wrote:
Countries that have had identical time since 1970 might diverge for a few months just to get themselves (or rather their capital cities) on the list. Though it's not guaranteed that tzdb will pick the capital city (Asia/Shanghai etc. etc.).
Cheers, Philip
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On 10 November 2017 at 15:22, Serdar ERMAN <serdar@decibelorganizasyon.com> wrote:
Hi, how can I leave this list?
Visit https://mm.icann.org/mailman/options/tz or send an email message to tz-request@iana.org with the subject: unsubscribe
On Nov 10, 2017, at 4:57 AM, Zefram <zefram@fysh.org> wrote:
... How would this manifest among timezones? If tzdb is taken as the arbiter of what is a timezone, which it indeed functions as for some purposes, maybe there'll be a desire for each country to have its own (non-link) timezone, as a matter of national pride. Countries that have had identical time since 1970 might diverge for a few months just to get themselves (or rather their capital cities) on the list. Sub-national regions with separatist ambitions (e.g., Catalonia) and enough devolution to achieve it might pull the same trick to get their own timezone, so that they can say they have the same status as sovereign countries.
For this to start happening just needs governments to perceive that appearing on computers' lists of timezones is desirable.
An OS might show you in the list if you have a timezone name, whether that name is a link or not. Some systems do this, but I suppose others do not. As for the national pride thing, that's possible. Some years ago, Venezuela was on a half-hour offset from all its neighbors for a few years, for reasons that might be said to include national pride. I don't think this has anything to do with tzdb. It isn't the arbiter of what's a zone, for one thing -- it is only the recorder of those decisions. The arbiter is each government with power to make those decisions. If and when it decides to be different, tzdb will record that fact. The motivation for the decision, even if we think we know it, isn't a consideration. Also, note that timezones have no direct connection to sovereign country status. If a region has its own rule, it has its own timezone; there is absolutely no connection with any notion of sovereignty there. paul
Zefram wrote:
maybe there'll be a desire for each country to have its own (non-link) timezone, as a matter of national pride.
Good point, and perhaps I shouldn't have started this thread. Governments that notice and care about what we're doing are more likely to want to influence our work for political reasons. This is a good argument against any attempt on our part to record geographical boundaries of Zones, as there are many political disputes about boundaries.
On 2017-11-10 09:57:30 (+0000), Zefram wrote:
Paul Eggert wrote:
Is the March 2016 announcement the first time a government has cited tzdb,
Watch out for the next milestone in this direction: the tail wagging the dog. Look what happened to country-code TLDs. [...]
How would this manifest among timezones? If tzdb is taken as the arbiter of what is a timezone, which it indeed functions as for some purposes, maybe there'll be a desire for each country to have its own (non-link) timezone, as a matter of national pride. [...]
For this to start happening just needs governments to perceive that appearing on computers' lists of timezones is desirable. The payoff isn't as obvious as the benefit of controlling a TLD, and it all requires a much greater popular awareness of computer timezone handling than has previously been the case. But the Azerbaijani government citing tzdb shows that we're well along an upward trend of the latter. I think the whole scenario is plausible, for a few years from now.
Take that thought a bit further and ICANN will be selling timezones to the highest bidder another decade down the line. Groan. Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Ministry of Information
On 11 November 2017 at 02:51, Philip Paeps <philip@trouble.is> wrote:
Take that thought a bit further and ICANN will be selling timezones to the highest bidder another decade down the line.
That makes me think about advertising in time zone names. Imagine if you had to select not Europe/Zurich but instead Europe/Powered-by-Swatch or something like that, because the company bought the naming rights to the timezone. Like the many stadiums or buildings that are now named after companies rather than after locations or people. -- Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com>
On 2017-11-11 09:22, Philip Newton wrote:
On 11 November 2017 at 02:51, Philip Paeps <philip@trouble.is> wrote:
Take that thought a bit further and ICANN will be selling timezones to the highest bidder another decade down the line. That makes me think about advertising in time zone names. Imagine if you had to select not Europe/Zurich but instead Europe/Powered-by-Swatch or something like that, because the company bought the naming rights to the timezone.
Easier to buy the UI localization rights for big distros: Seoul_Samsung, MtView_Google, Cupertino_Apple, Redmond_Microsoft: there could be big money (and confusion) from America/Los_Angeles! ;^>
Like the many stadiums or buildings that are now named after companies rather than after locations or people.
But who other than the orgs' and ticket sellers' ad reps use those names, which change every few years when a co can't make the payments, gets bought, or a better offer comes along? -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
participants (7)
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Brian Inglis -
Paul Eggert -
Paul.Koning＠dell.com -
Philip Newton -
Philip Paeps -
Serdar ERMAN -
Zefram